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Main Page O.C. Spray
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: eglock72

I am requesting any campus departments out there to send me information on type of O.C. spray you carry and how many times you have used it. Also what did you carry before you had oc spray. And for those dept.s that carry it do you also carry a baton and firearm.

The dept. I work for does not carry it yet and some of the guys of the dept. think if we get it to get rid of the baton. I say no to this as you need all the tools to do the job.

Please send any information on this topic to eglock72@yahoo.com

Thank You in advance.

Posted by: union1

If you carry the baton, DONT get rid of it. It serves a completly different function than O.C.. Immagine trying to block a Pipe or bat coming down on your head with a bottle of OC. YEOWCH

Posted by: eglock72

If I have my way we will not get rid of the baton but keep it along with the firearm and the o.c. spray. I believe that you should have all options open to you when needed. Union 1 what did your dept. carry before oc just a baton or what. I need data when I go to the committee meeting I am part of. Thank You for your response.

eglock72

Posted by: Crvtte65

Found this info here on the rating system.

Oleoresin Capsicum is the product created by a process in which ground dried Chile peppers are rendered to release capsaicin, the natural pepper resin into corn oil. Hence the name oleoresin capsicum. Capsicum is the botanical name for Chile peppers. The "Hotness"of the OC is based on the capsaicin content of the oleoresin, basically the active ingredient of the OC. The method of measure called a Scoville Heat Unit that is used to measure how hot a natural chile pepper is also applied to OC.

For example, a bell pepper has an SHU (Scoville Heat Unit) rating of zero while Jalapeno peppers rate approximately 5,000 SHU. SHU ratings of OC are based on capsaicin content.

Pure Capsaicin is a tremendous 15 million SHU. The OC used in Aerko products is 2 million SHU which contains thirteen percent capsaicin. Further, one million SHU OC is about 7 percent capsaicin and 500,000 SHU OC is approximately 3 percent capsaicin. Other OC products on the market today reportedly contain an OC with a rating of 16 thousand SHU. This hardly seems adequate. Obviously higher percentages of this kind of active ingredient are not only needed, but demanded.

If confronted with a 10% OC formula the first question should be "10% of what?". As virtually a self regulated industry there is no governing body nationally to say what the minimum acceptable SHU standard should be.

Here is how it all relates. If a product is 5% OC, of an OC rated at 2 million SHU, its capsaicin content is .675%. Another product that is 10% OC, of an OC rated at 500,000 SHU, its capsaicin content is .3%, which is 50% less than the first product.

The bottom line is this, unlike CN or CS that are known commodities with established incapacitating doses, with OC the question "of what?" is more important than "how much?".

All Oleoresin capsicum used by Aerko International is 2 million SHU including Punch III.

http://www.aerko.com/hot.htm

Posted by: LeadDog17

WOW Scott, I think you definitely get and A for research today

Posted by: Crvtte65

I just hope I don't have to get hit by 15,000,000 SHU

Posted by: union1

I dont know what Emerson Carry'd before.. Sometimes I wonder how we got O.C. and Leaps... but thats a different story!

Posted by: friedrichleonhardsberger

I´d say carry both the baton and the spray. Sometimes suspects seem to be immune against the spray, so better have the baton with you.

Posted by: 2-Delta

Get a nice 10%, the Mark series are pretty popular. And remind your chief that a baton and OC serve different purposes and are considered different levels of force. How can you escalate force properly when you have to skip a step?

Posted by: michaelbos

You need all the tools of the trade. More or less steps, of course depends on the incident. You have to use the OC against a subject, it does not effect him/her, but the suspect needs to be controled, detained, apprehended, you use the baton.

Now if he/she sues your department, they can show that officers had the tools to take the steps, OC, stick etc.

Posted by: cjm74

E-Glock,
Can't go wrong w/ the 5.5% Fire water brother.

Posted by: mazz

The 5.5% OC stream is the way to go. It is like bobbing for french fries in hot oil.

nfire:

Posted by: cjm74

Hey Sgt,

To me it felt like being stabbed w/ hot knives

Posted by: PATS246

Not to knock anyones dept., but I know that Tufts Univ. PD carries firearms and baton, but no OC. I heard the admin is concerned about liability.

Have they heard of the use of force continuum? I never understood that...

gun, baton, but no OC. Oh well, at least they are armed. Better that than anything else.

PS Hey eglock, after writing I just realized that you were the author of the first post. Good luck with the OC issue. I don't see what the big deal is, they are armed, baton. Has any of the admin checked out the use of force training manuals.

Posted by: cjm74

Force continuim

I wonder what that is

. Hey after you spray someone don't you feel like

Posted by: Sgt Jack

No OC but you can carry a Baton and Gun at Tufts...Because they're worried about Libility....Yeah Ok...like the Baton and Gun aren't...Could someone please tell me where the hell these people come from...is it something in the water...what is it...I here this all the time "Oh that's a libilty!"...Does anyone ever bother to talk with a lawyer or do some research or something to see if it really is..Esp when other places have something or do something and it's no problem there.

Posted by: Sgt Jack

Please forgive my spelling of Liability from my last post..too many double shifts

Posted by: PATS246

Like Sgt. Jack said, where do these people come from. These are well known Universities and supposedly run by educated people. I

I'm not quite sure what it is, but something is off with these people. I used to work at a "prestigious" university and someone mentioned getting AEDs for the cruisers. The Director of Pubic Safety's (AKA Chief in a real dept) response was that the AED was a liability for the department and University.

Hmmm what would have been better better, me standing over the university president or some parent at commencment watching him have a heart attack. Gee mam' I'm sorry your husband has fallen ill to a heart attack, I don't have an AED that could save him b/c my so called chief says its a liablility. Some schools are such a joke.......

Sorry

just had to put my 2 cents about my old place of employment.

Posted by: eglock72

GPD11

I see the word "Sgt." underneath your name. Did some either promote themselves again or it is the real deal. If so congrats. As to other issue at hand I think it will be a done deal. It just takes time to get these things. I am glad that it over getting oc spray and not a gun. Well let me know what going on.

Eglock72

Posted by: LeadDog17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sgt Jack

No OC but you can carry a Baton and Gun at Tufts...Because they're worried about Libility....Yeah Ok...like the Baton and Gun aren't...Could someone please tell me where the hell these people come from...is it something in the water...what is it...I here this all the time "Oh that's a libilty!"...Does anyone ever bother to talk with a lawyer or do some research or something to see if it really is..Esp when other places have something or do something and it's no problem there.

I sure hope this isn't an argument for OC! If you try this argument, you are very likely to lose everything.

NO, OC is NOT a liability, and neither are guns or batons. They are all trade tools that are meant to enhance the safety and security of the officers and those they are entrusted to protect. Through extensive training in the correct use of these tools, the experts who use them can perform their job in the safest manner possible using just the amount of force that is necessary to safely achieve the objective.

eglock72: YES, GPD11 has been promoted to Sgt. - and congratulations to him! If you keep up the eloquent and engaging posts, you too can have the wonderful title of "Sergeant" below your username

-Eric

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

You know what's really sad? Site officers on my job can carry OC and a baton (expandable if trained in it), but are not issued protective vests. Guess they figure if you don't carry a gun you don't need to protect your vital organs, although we have full police powers and can effect arrests and possibly find ourselves in very rough situations. I work in the heart of Roxbury where crackheads, drug dealers and other various types of vermin choose to spend their time. I hear gunshots frequently and every night I wonder when I am going to run into the wrong person.

I have been issued a gas mask; but I will not be issued a vest. I think the chances of me being hit by a bullet is 100 times greater than being exposed to radiation or bioterrorism.

Posted by: mpd61

Actually Dunngie..................
You are exposed to radiation everyday silly! (UV etc.) And Bio-terrorism? Consider some of your co-workers and the fact that your workplace is under the jurisdiction of Boston Water & Sewer! YIKES

Seriously,
You need a vest!

Posted by: PATS246

eglock72 I only made Sgt. on masscops.com, not on the job. But there is a Sgts test coming up next month for Civil Circus, so that way I can be on midnight shift for the next 10 years. Hope things are going good over there. By the way, isn't the Barking Crab an OC instructor

, maybe he could help you out with your OC issue over there

Posted by: ecpd402

OC is a better choice. I have used it on a individual and I have seen them dropped instantly. I have also been sprayed and I can safely say I would rather get wacked with a baton then sprayed

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

I'd take the OC. I had a pretty good recovery time (I think it was about 7 minutes) and the thought of an ASP smashing my bones to smithereens just doesn't appeal to me.

Both equally suck if you were to be the victim of either method.

Posted by: cjm74

I agree w/ Eglock, rather be hit w/ baton than O.C.

nfire:

Posted by: Sgt Jack

LeadDog the point that I'm trying to make is that a school has no problem issuing guns and batons to their officers..but doesn't want to issue OC when it's a lower form of force..I don't see the sense in it..Personally I feel every officer should be issued Oc..Baton..Firearm..and a bullet proof vest..As far as getting into a discussion on what is and is not a liability.The only thing I'm gonna say is that it's a double edge sword..Damned if you do and Damned if you don't....Just my .02

Posted by: mikefo

Hi Eric,

Hope the OC pursuit is going well, If you need help let me know.

Mikefo

Posted by: PATS246

Guns, batons, OC?

Sounds like a bunch of storm trooper nazis. Who needs all that. Can't we just talk it out and hold hands and all get along. This is America, I know my rights. Or in the college setting... "you cant do that to me, I pay $30,000 a year to go to school here"

I'm only kidding. I think regardless campus police or not. Anyone being a sworn police officer wearing a police badge in a police car, having the proper training should have all the same tools as the next guy. Baton, OC, firearm. I think there should be some uniformity statewide in terms of campus police. But we live in massachusetts so I don't think that will happen. Regardless of a full time academy, state police academy or SSPO, you learn all the basics on use of force... why leave out some of the tools such as OC. We all do the same job, with the possiblity of being put in the same situations, only a matter of when. Some places are quieter and smaller and/or dont deal with much crime, but thats not to say that an officer shouldnt be prepared or equiped with all the necessary tools if the situation should arise.

Posted by: LeadDog17

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikefo

Hi Eric,

Hope the OC pursuit is going well, If you need help let me know.

Mikefo

Are you talking to me? If so, thanks, but I'm not pursuing anything. Just giving my advice to those who are trying to make a case.

-Eric

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