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Posted by: USMCMP5811

No more codes ....... per FEMA?
(Washington, DC-NBC) Aug. 22, 2005 - In Washington, DC, if a police
officer says 10-50, he or she is talking about a car accident. Over
the border in Montgomery County, Maryland that same code means an
officer needs help.

And that's why the federal government says its time to adopt a common
language, plain English.

Radio codes are a second language in public safety circles, but the
Federal Emergency Management agency says there's no room for
misunderstanding in a national emergency.

So it's ordering police and other departments to phase out their
code-speak and start talking in plain English by next September, or
risk losing millions of dollars in emergency preparedness money.

Gil Jamieson is director of what's known as the National Incident
Management System, or NIMS. He says there's been some resistance from
police, "Clearly, ten codes are something which are part and parcel to
law enforcement."

But he says the ability to communicate is more important, "The notion
of moving to plain English is to say what we mean so there is that
common understanding."

Chief Terrance Gainer of the US Capitol Police says, "To use money as
a hammer to throw out what we've been using for years and years and
has worked well for us, that's not such a good idea without a lot more
conversation."

Chief Gainer says the codes have a long history for good reason, "It
is a concise language, it's very clear, it takes up very little air
space and there are some security issues about it."

Many fire departments went to plain English years ago. Some say
changing the language public safety officers speak is easier said than
done.

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Posted by: Wolfman

So does this mean that lunch is "lunch" instead of "the Drill"?

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Posted by: texdep

Could have been worse... FEMA could just as well have decided to dictate their own set of codes.

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Posted by: VTCOP

Personnally, and professionnally, I believe 100% in getting rid of these codes. Just here where I work, our ten-codes are different than say Rut. Regional Ambulance, which uses NH's codes. In Springfield, where I worked before, we used the standard VT codes, but added a bunch more for personalization. Up here in woodstock, for the most part we use plain english, which is much easier to use and easier to understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by texdep Could have been worse... FEMA could just as well have decided to dictate their own set of codes.

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Posted by: Mortal knight

I don't think it would be too hard to switch. A) when PD hire new officers just don't teach them the codes. B) we use two sets; 1) class codes & 2) clearance codes. half the PD don't use the class codes, just the clearance code. C) There are also the segment in all PDs that use a code then go into a 15minute explantion on the call. Instead of "clear ##", it's Yeah I told the victim that blah, blah, blah, and I advised the suspect, Blah, blah, blah, And know I'm going to , blah, blah, blah, blah.

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Posted by: Crvtte65

Saying... "I'm going to take a crap" is just not as elegant as 10-7, pee is 10-6

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Posted by: stm4710

I would love to see how they are going to enforce this.

Personally, we dont use 10 codes anyway.

We are either off at Delta & Delta, Delta Qubec, Mike Delta or Bravo Kilo want anything?

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Posted by: Wolfman

Anyone who's out working probably has a good grip on the surrounding areas radio codes. Doesn't FEMA have any bigger fish to fry than appeasing scanner rats???

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Posted by: SOT

10-4 good buddy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by stm4710 I would love to see how they are going to enforce this. Personally, we dont use 10 codes anyway. We are either off at Delta & Delta, Delta Qubec, Mike Delta or Bravo Kilo want anything?

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Posted by: MSP75

I am used to the codes and it is a part of the job's culture, it would be hard to give up. FEMA does have a good point, though. Agencies have started cooperating more and radio systems are getting easier to link. There has to be either a universal code system (preferably MSP) or just plain english. All the civi scanner addicts already know what we are saying, so what we say is already known.

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Posted by: testtaker

I attended the NIMS training supplied by FEMA and I was taught at the ICS training that during an incident the IC should be relocated to the ICP to activate the ICS. The UC should be utilized by the IMT. The PIO should inquire wether the NRP calls for the activation of the NDMS or any other NGO's. During the same time the SO as a SOP should create a SITREP for the UC on the POLREP. The IC should consider the ROSS when ordering the US+R, or consider PVO. Anyways the JIC while utilizing the JIS should develop the IAP in accordance to the HSPD-5. At no time should the EOC activate the EOP at the DOC without consulting with the FOG.

Hmm, in case of emeregeny maybe we should go from government "plain speak" back to dumb police jargon.

If you have trouble deciphering the above legitimate paragraph you can go to :
http://www.fema.gov/nimcast/Acronyms.do

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Posted by: SSPO#11

The idea that would make the most sense is to utilize "plain english" when dealing with other agencies who do not know your ten codes. Or would that be to easy?

#11

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Posted by: mpd61

1. F*CK the F.E.M.A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. Lets go plain english so it's easier for everybody else (civilians/criminals) to know what we're up to! Maybe Diane Wilkerson can get involved at the state level and introduce a bill to have M.E.M.A. take the lead for mucking it up here in the Bay State.

3. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!!!

THE MOST POWERFUL ORGANIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES

Though it may be the most powerful organization in the United States, few people know it even exists. But it has crept into our private lives. Even mortgage papers contain FEMA's name in small print if the property in question is near a flood plain. FEMA was deeply involved in the Los Angeles riots and the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake in the San Francisco Bay Area. Some of the black helicopter traffic reported throughout the United States, but mainly in the West, California, Washington, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and Colorado, are flown by FEMA personnel. FEMA has been given responsibility for many new disasters including urban forest fires, home heating emergencies, refugee situations, urban riots, and emergency planning for nuclear and toxic incidents. In the West, it works in conjunction with the Sixth Army.

FEMA was created in a series of Executive Orders. A Presidential Executive Order, whether Constitutional or not, becomes law simply by its publication in the Federal Registry. Congress is by-passed. Executive Order Number 12148 created the Federal Emergency Management Agency that is to interface with the Department of Defense for civil defense planning and funding. An "emergency czar" was appointed. FEMA has only spent about 6 percent of its budget on national emergencies, the bulk of their funding has been used for the construction of secret underground facilities to assure continuity of government in case of a major emergency, foreign or domestic. Executive Order Number 12656 appointed the National Security Council as the principal body that should consider emergency powers. This allows the government to increase domestic intelligence and surveillance of U.S. citizens and would restrict the freedom of movement within the United States and grant the government the right to isolate large groups of civilians. The National Guard could be federalized to seal all borders and take control of U.S. air space and all ports of entry.

Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:


EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis."

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Posted by: motorcop1128

I am all for 86ing the use of codes, we have tons of different codes for calls as well as call prioritization, ie: code 1, 2 and 3. We utilize the services of civilian dispatchers (nothing against them, I was one once too) who can't remember the call codes half of the time anyways. Here's the clincher they're telling me whether or not I should use my lights and siren responding to a hot call. I strongly believe that the descision on how to respond to a call should be up to the individual officer, not someone who has never worked the road. So, needless to say I am all for getting rid of codes and going to plain english.

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Posted by: stm4710

I hate "Hot" and "Cold" responses called by dispatchers. I have heard the Danvers FD go to chest pain calls cold and sprained ankes at the high school hot.

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Posted by: Dane

mpd61,

With all those Executive Orders standing by at the low ready, we could be transformed into the Soviet Union with a couple of signatures.

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Posted by: Dane

Personally, I think it'll take about 15 minutes for some liberal douchebag group to figure out that using plain English might disenfranchise certain groups, particularly undocumented guest workers. FEMA will be successfully sued by the ACLU and we will then have to make all radio transmissions in English, Spanish, Portugese, etc. Ooooh, can't wait for that day!

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Posted by: JoninNH

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSPO#11 The idea that would make the most sense is to utilize "plain english" when dealing with other agencies who do not know your ten codes. Or would that be to easy? #11

That was what I was taught the last incident command course I took. Use plain English because cooperating agencies may use different codes and confusion will result.

I don't think the feds forcing anything on the local/state public safety sector is a good idea. Eeeek. Take a look at this: http://www.plainlanguage.gov/

A little amusing, but then I've been at a structured interview since noon, the Rockingham County Sheriff's Department does airport policing at the Manchester Airport here in New Hampshire, Reliable Security provides security. I've been told they both use the same frequency radios, but that the security staff is forbidden to use ten-codes when communicating.

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Posted by: Wolfman

Would it be too difficult to just ask people to use codes when conversing with their own department but use plain English when communicating with another department??

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Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfman Would it be too difficult to just ask people to use codes when conversing with their own department but use plain English when communicating with another department??

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that would be too easy and make sense!!!

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Posted by: Curious EMT

I've been dispatching for a short time.
I had to adjust from my home-town's codes to my employers, as they were TOTALLY different.

First, I think 10-4 sounds way too 60's, but saying Recieved will get my peepee slapped. THAT is just too old fassioned.
But when an officer is out on a MV stop, it's in the officer's best intrest to say " XXX to Car XXX, active 10-1" rather than "Active M+W" or "Active wanted" or whatever. I think 99% of shitbags would refer that to being an active license, not thinking about the warrent check. Gives the officer an opertunity to do whatever before pulling the subject out of the car. It's just a lot easier, and safer.

I havent seen any situation in which, at any point other then over-the-radio communication, we've talked and used any of our codes. So its just natural when calling supporting agencies to speak that way. I know for me I'm in another mindset when I hold the XMIT button, from how i think to how i talk, to my voice itself.

I sure don't call Bob's towing and request a 10-14 for a 10-8 or whatever. It's just normal. Maybe FEMA shold spend their money to properly upgrade all Public Safety Telecommunication centers to top-of-the-line centers, not desks with outdated radios and 10 yr old computer systems. All this DHS money being spent on things that doenst make our Homeland any safer.
F'ing pencil-pushers

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Posted by: Dr.Magoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crvtte65 Saying... "I'm going to take a crap" is just not as elegant as 10-7, pee is 10-6

Did you say you would be 10-7 the rear of 10-10 to drop a signal 2?

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Posted by: RPD931

"Yeah, call the coroner we've got 3 dead bodies here"... I have no issue with going from codes to english, but can you see the influx of media attention?

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Posted by: PhilipD

While codes may not be usefull in small town or suburban enviornments...in urban enviornments where you can have up to 100 people on the same channel, and business is busy, some of those 10 codes can be pretty damm handy. They might be annoying to memorize, but hell, they save time, and sometimes every second counts.

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Posted by: sdb29

And just which English do they want us to speak? Hip Hop English? Grunge English? Ghetto English? UK English? Bureaucratic English?
I think one of the great things about codes is that everyone, no matter what their background before the department, has to learn the same ones.
The needs of FEMA during a once in a lifetime storm shouldn't supercede day in and day out operational needs of various departments.
Besides, if they eliminate codes we can't invent our own that don't cover the "official" situations, like 10-43 which means "It's your turn to buy, pick me up my usual and meet me behind the middle school", or 10-62 which means "I gotta run a quick errand. Cover my calls for me for a few?"

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Posted by: frapmpd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPD931 "Yeah, call the coroner we've got 3 dead bodies here"... I have no issue with going from codes to english, but can you see the influx of media attention?

In some of the smaller towns if strictly plain English is and there is a serious incident everyone including the media, board of selectmen/town council, town administrator, postmaster, school janitors, sparkies, and everyone else in scanner land will be there gauking. There are some advantages to codes.

I agree with CuriousEMT, the codes are beneifical in terms of communication during a stop or call, especially if you can't get back to the car or not too far out of ear shot. Hearing "+Q1 on that subject" is better than "Joe Smith is wanted." Ofcourse, that would also require some dispatchers to not just blurt the info out without calling first. That was one of first few cardinal rules I was taught when I began dispatching... 1) Always know the location your officers call out and 2) Don't just spit the info out over the air... call first, let them respond, and always ask if they are "clear to copy" before putting out any serious info.

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Posted by: mpd61

Well,

Since this thread started before Hurricane Katrina, and we've all had a chance to see how efficent and quickly FEMA handled it...............................

Makes you cry for them to disband FEMA and resurrect the old Civil Defense Program!!!

Anybody want to say I was right?

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