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Main Page Count on drop outs of the 78th
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: tripleplay

Does anyone know the how many dropped out of the academy?

Posted by: MARINECOP

I was told only 8 dropped for the first day and on Tuesday 4 went to medical from PT/heat related problems. I do not know if they returned back.

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Pictures are up on the MSP website...

I wanna do the giant slip and slide too!!

Posted by: Mousey

Anyone know the drop out rate as of today?

Posted by: nirtallica

The count on deck as of Tuesday is 176 and FALLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mousey

What was teh count Monday? I heard 200?

Posted by: nirtallica

Ahh...the lovely sumsets of New Braintree. Just think, if you are lucky enough to be in Alpha building, you get the panoramic view of the pioneer valley.

Posted by: kttref

That really makes me want CSP...

Posted by: ponyboy

They lost a total of 42 in week one

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

42...

is that a week one record? That is seriously weak... WEAK! That makes me hella mad... waste of spots...

Posted by: Mikey682

wow

Posted by: ponyboy

I don't know if they were all voluntary drops, I spoke to a buddy of mine that is in the class and he didn't say. He just gave me the number.

Posted by: Bravo2-7

Word is that about 50 of the alternates were appointed to start on monday

Posted by: fore2213

I have a few questions for you knowledgeable gentelmen. I was in the "spare parts" pool for the 78th and got the call to report with the other spares. Due to the way the cards fell in the last week, i had to decline and defer to the 79th. First...does the fact that i was in the backup pool mean that i will be at the top of the list for next Feb? Second, will i have to go through all the pre-class excercises again, i.e. oral interviews, PT test and pshyc tests again, along with another background check......or do they use what i have already done? Best of luck to all the guys who are in next week. Thanks

Posted by: Curious EMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by fore2213";p=&quot

I have a few questions for you knowledgeable gentelmen. I was in the "spare parts" pool for the 78th and got the call to report with the other spares. Due to the way the cards fell in the last week, i had to decline and defer to the 79th.

I have absolutetly no clue. But thank you for not taking up a prescious spot only to drop out in a few weeks becasue you're a greedy f***!

Posted by: badogg88

yowza, those are them fightin words.....

Posted by: Dogma20001

Unless someone close to you died, I don't really see "the way the cards fell" as a excuse for not being ready to go. I mean, really, what "all of a sudden" occured that you couldn't go. I'm not going to pretend to know what your excuse might be, it may be legit, but the way you replied makes it suspicous. You went through the whole process, missed all those days of work, and dropped. No offense, but if someone real close to you didn't die, I hope to god your last on the list for deffering, especially going that far into the process and wasting a spot for someone who SHOULD be there. Like I said, I don't know why you deffered, but excuses are like as--oles, everybody has one. Put it this way, I wouldn't want to work with you if it's a sh---y excuse. If I'm wrong, like I said, the way you made it sound like is a pathetic excuse. My apologizes. My 2 cents

Posted by: pablo

One of our fireman leaves for New Braintree next week, he was on the alternate list and got the order to show up.We lost a P.D. dipatcher as well,both headed to join the 78th

Posted by: fore2213

Thanks for the reply Dogma. By the way, if you are not busy next wednesday around 7am, are you available to drive me the Brigham and Womans Hospital?? I will be having my "EXCUSE" removed. This whole process was a blessing because my "EXCUSE " was found in an early stage. I found out about it last Tuesday......and even after i found out, i still did my 6 mile run thinking i could still get to the class. Deffering was one of the hardest things i ever had to do!!!! So im sorry no one died to satisfy what in your mind qualifies as a quality "EXCUSE" But i will still be able to get into the 79th AND be around to watch my daughter graduate high school in 12 years. I do admire and understand your passion for this system to work properly and that the best get a shot....but im sure you know the old addage....."walk in a mile in my shoes before you judge me". So aside from all that, hope someone can answer my original questions.

Posted by: robodope

Wow...How stupid do you geeks feel?...You two jumped all over him....I have more respect for someone who realizes they arent ready and takes up a spot vs. someone who goes in half ass and drops out..Furthermore it's none of your business what he decided to as it's a job.. Hopefully if you get called you will have the fortune and good luck to be healthy, and have family health so that you can get through it. Until then shut your pieholes

Posted by: nirtallica

Hey curious EMT, I am CURIOUS did you graduate the SPA? If not shut your mouth! Some of you people play Monday morning QB have no idea what you are up against in the SPA. It is harder than anything most of you have done in your lives so far. Talk to some of your friends that went through and had prior military. They will tell you it was tougher than boot camp or basic (not to take anything away from the military). Until you go through and GRADUATE don't sit behind your keyboard and talk s**t!

Posted by: kttref

Quote:

Originally Posted by fore2213";p=&quot

Thanks for the reply Dogma. By the way, if you are not busy next wednesday around 7am, are you available to drive me the Brigham and Womans Hospital?? I will be having my "EXCUSE" removed. This whole process was a blessing because my "EXCUSE " was found in an early stage. I found out about it last Tuesday......and even after i found out, i still did my 6 mile run thinking i could still get to the class. Deffering was one of the hardest things i ever had to do!!!! So im sorry no one died to satisfy what in your mind qualifies as a quality "EXCUSE" But i will still be able to get into the 79th AND be around to watch my daughter graduate high school in 12 years. I do admire and understand your passion for this system to work properly and that the best get a shot....but im sure you know the old addage....."walk in a mile in my shoes before you judge me". So aside from all that, hope someone can answer my original questions.

Good luck with your surgery (I'm guessing)...Regardless, get well soon. Glad whatever it is was caught early!

Posted by: Dogma20001

Robodope, like I said, it sounded suspicious. Saying "the way the cards fell' sounds like a usual lame excuse. Obviously his is legit. I have no problem with that and wish Fore2213 all the best with the surgery and with going forward to the 79th. As far as it's a Job, thats right, it is, and it's one everybody on here is after. While Fore2213's reasons are legit, most others who have deffered are not. I have no problem with those who deffered from the get go. Just with those who wasted spots by taking up space. Look at how many people have dropped already. Wasted slots. Fore2213, good luck with everything. Robodope, maybe you should reread my post. First off, I said I didn't know his reason, maybe it is legit. Second , I repeated the same sentiments at the end. Maybe you should learn how to comprehend and shut your piehole till then

Posted by: ponyboy

Fore 2213 at least you can get some sleep now, Dogma has deemed your surgery an acceptable reason to defer. I know you must of been sweating that one out.

Posted by: robodope

Ok..Dogma..It sounded suspicious?..and you have determined that though your extensive investigative experience? And who are you to deem most people reasons acceptable or not? I know one person who dropped and two who defered and they all had very good reasons... I will let them know you approved of their deferal I'm sure they'll sleep better.. Ok, as long as you approve his sugery then I guess it would qualify as what you would deem as an acceptable excuse. And I tend to disagree that it's not a job that "everyone" on here is after. Some people go to NB and determine it's not for them, and they made a mistake. The job is not for everyone and that 1st hell week of many is designed to weed those folks out. Next time maybe you can study harder so you do better on the exam instead of crying

about people that took up your spot. Is there anything left to comprehend?

Posted by: BlackOps

Some of you idiots on this board are so f@cking pathetic. No offense to the many squared away guys/gals here but a few of you people really suck.

Best of luck with your surgery fore2213, I'll be thinking about you on Wednesday.

Posted by: robodope

And good luck with your surgery friend

Posted by: robodope

Dogma20001

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Posted: Sun Jul 03 2005, 09:06 Post subject: Re: Count on drop outs of the 78th

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robodope, like I said, it sounded suspicious. Saying "the way the cards fell' sounds like a usual lame excuse. Obviously his is legit. I have

Posted by: 40th MPOC#309

I love my co-workers attitude. "Do whatever you gotta do to me-in 26 weeks there will be a Bluebird waiting for me......" He is a great guy and a good friend-I'll miss him when he goes to the MSP.

Posted by: Curious EMT

I wasn't calling him a greedy f***, I was to those who show up unpreparted to the SPA while some of us who got 1 more question wrong on a written test sit at home waiting for the next test... No fighting words towards anyone here.... Sorry for the misunderstanding..

Oh yea, for 2212 heal up quickly

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Fore2213, regarding the deferment question, if what I hear is true... those that deferred to the 79th at the beginning of the 78th process are placed at the back of the line. The candidates that showed up for the 78th interviews etc., are given first shot at the 79th, if they didn't make the 78th, regardless of score. I read that you were ready to go and had passed all the pre-req's... so maybe there is a certain consideration for your situation, but from what I understand deferments are put at the bottom of the pile. My advice, call HR... hope ya heal quick.

Posted by: SEABASS

BlackOps,
Bud ,you hit the nail right on the head. There are some real jerk offs on this board. I'd love to see some of these winners in person.

Posted by: dcs2244

How nice that you kids can "defer" to the next class. I couldn't, it was a "now or never" choice...not only for me, but for my classmates. But that is the difference between the State Police and the Consolidated Police...

Is it true you can bring mommy to the academy to dry your pecker (or monkey)? Just curious

.

Go to the SPA and complete it...or do not go(and let the man know upfront) and let a real person realize their lifes dream, and get on with your useless lives, you mindless drones.

But in any event, stop wasting every ones time just 'cause mommy told you that you were "special"(she probably meant 'special-ed'

).

And quit your whining!

Posted by: mkpnt

Can we get back to the original topic or does everyone here have adult adhd?

Posted by: stubrie

Why so sour DCS?

Posted by: nirtallica

Hey mkpnt, did you make it into the 78 RTT? If you did then you must have quit, otherwise you wouldn't be home right now but instead you would be enjoying the lovely accomidations at New Braintree.

Posted by: mkpnt

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica";p=&quot

Hey mkpnt, did you make it into the 78 RTT? If you did then you must have quit, otherwise you wouldn't be home right now but instead you would be enjoying the lovely accomidations at New Braintree.

Nirt,
If I was in the 78th would I be wasting my time online with you? If I quit, would I be online looking for numbers. I'd be saying "Well I know it's at least one...haha!"

I would love to be at the SPA. Especially the lovely waterride I saw online.

Posted by: BlackOps

[quote="dcs2244";p="68549"] But that is the difference between the State Police and the Consolidated Police...

quote]

Consolidated Police ??????

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

My guess is the Registry, the Metropolitan District Commission and the State Police merger... all yielding the Consolidated Police...

Posted by: dcs2244

You're right, Pvt. Cowboy! Things have been "watered-down" since the consolidation...but I still think we have one of the best (and toughest) academies extant.

Stubrie, why so sour? You live through the consolidation and have your ID# changed, and lose your seniority to people who did not goto the SPA. Although I break bread with many friends from the MDC and Registry, their academies were not of the same calibre as the SPA.

Sorry if I sound "sour"...perhaps you can address it with your personal counselor*, should you make it to the Consolidated Police Academy

!

*Webster New Collegiate Dictionary: 3. one who has supervisory duties at a summer camp

Posted by: nirtallica

Mkpnt, from your past posts on this board, it appeared that you were in the running for the 77th and 78th RTTS. So what happened? Did you defer to the 79th?

Posted by: ponyboy

20 more gone,or so I've been told. The number might not be exact

Posted by: stubrie

Counselor??
Bring it on big boy.
I've seen the worst/best you big boys have to offer.
As god said......
Men make big plans for the future, and god just smiles........
I also like to smile......
You might want to take a little midol for those hot flashes ol'timer.....
I find no need to inflate my self-importance...
Over

Posted by: JFSMSP

they've lost 64 as of friday

Posted by: HousingCop

First & foremost, the MSP does have one of the toughest academies around. I don't know why there is so much resentment of former MDC, Capitol & Registry cops from the "new" guys who came on the MSP after 1992. If they (post 1992 graduates) didn't want to work with "inferior" troopers, why then did you take the job? If you think these Consolidation Cops are beneath your stature as "real" troopers, think again.

Pre-1992 troopers may, I say, MAY have a potential bitch about what they percieved to be a watering down of the broth. I don't think it holds much weight though. Even a Capitol cop who stood guard at the back gate of the State House saw more police action than some troopers who work out in Hicksville, solving the case of the "Mad Cow Tipper".

I'd take a Met cop anyday to watch my back and in fact did, several times. There were some street savvy guys in the OC on Day Blvd.

Must have really been a bitch taking the best of all 4 contracts and getting an automatic pay raise while not even bargaining. My hemmorroids bleed for you guys when I pick up the Herald and see troopers making over 225K / yr. Boo Hoo 4 U.

Now, back to the original thread....... Don't go moaning and groaning about people dropping out of the MSP Academy. They have a standby list and the slot is not actually wasted. They back-fill for about 2 weeks and people get put on stand-by and get the call, just like Day1. I am sure, that some people get shafted but if you want to bitch and complain, bitch to the "new & improved" (Yeah Right) MPTC and other academies about their policy of not backfilling a slot. Once somebody leaves, 15 minutes into the first day, the slot is never filled and some poor slob who got shafted at the Town Council and lost out to the Selectman's nephew will never get the chance to get on with their lifes ambition.

The MSP knows they have a certain attrition rate and they compensate for it. This is the actual smart thing to do. I know plenty of cops who probably could not hack the MSP academy but make damn fine cops anyway. We all know that being a trooper is nice, you get all the perks that come with the job. I'd take a street smart cop any day over some cigar store dummy who looks good all spit and polished anyday.

It's all about coming home at night people. Do your job and leave the uniform and attitude in the locker. Don't jump out of one Ford Crown Vic and hop into your own Ford Crown Vic in the parking lot. Enuf said. HC

Posted by: mkpnt

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica";p=&quot

Mkpnt, from your past posts on this board, it appeared that you were in the running for the 77th and 78th RTTS. So what happened? Did you defer to the 79th?

Nirt,
I was denied for background issues. 1. Educational Performance and 2.)Driving Record. I think moreso driving record because I did pretty well in school except one semester at Umass. I figured I was in because I hadn't gotten a ticket in 9 yrs. but what can I do, now I can only pray for my hometown. mkpnt

Posted by: Wolfman

HC -

You know as well as I that anyone making 225K+ per year is dropping most of it on alimony.

As far as the "Hicksville" calls, most would rather have a Capitol or Met backing them up when dealing with a 260 lb. drunken inbred shitheel at 3AM. Unfortunately that's not a luxury that exists in Hicksville. Walk the Hicksville walk, my brother, and your opinions just may change. It may seem like mundane duty to you city folk, but it is certainly fraught with its own unique perils which are difficult to comprehend unless experienced firsthand.

Also, just couldn't resist...
mkpnt: "...because I did pretty good in school except one semester at Umass..."

I believe you may have meant to say you did pretty well in school.

Posted by: mkpnt

Wolfman, Look back...I fixed it just for you!

Posted by: nirtallica

Mkpnt, sorry to hear that.

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Awww seriously man... I though I was gonna have something good to read logging on today, maybe about some recruit who washed out crying and screaming "I want my mommy!" while the DI barks, "Looks like the best part of you ran down the crack of your mamma's ass and ended up as a brown stain in the mattress!!" Not some crybaby post/link about someone who's disgruntled about Ashland PD and the Chief.

Since I monitor this page EVERYDAY, I want to know the count of quitters... better chance of them getting to the 95's... Keep 'em droppin' out baby!!

Posted by: bosco109

Count on deck 183

Posted by: VT315

As of today 7/13 they have lost 60 people. I spoke with a MSP friend of mine and he told me that they are losing them left and right.

Posted by: Killjoy

Interestingly enough, no one has really addressed WHY the recruits drop out.....why would you wait around for 2-3 years, spend a lot of dough on gear, and then, quit. As one of my co-workers said on Day 1, "These people quitting spent more time at Wal-Mart shopping for their gear than they did actually at the academy."

Probably the #1 reason is lack pf physical fitness. You would not believe the fatbodies who show up Day 1 expecting this place to be some kind of fitness camp. Let make this clear, so no one misunderstands, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN PASS THE PT TEST, DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE IN GOOD ENOUGH SHAPE FOR THE ACADEMY. If you arrive here in poor physical condition, expect to walking out, wiping your eyes, and dragging your suitcase shortly therafter. Expect 4-5 mile runs in the first weeks and longer runs to follow along with plenty of physical training as well.

Good shape is not the only factor as well, plently of people in good condition drop, a lack of mental toughness is another factor. It seems our soft society is good at raising people who expect they are "owed" something. Let me make this clear, just because you pass some background checks and a written test and some psych tests, you are not "owed" a job by the state police. You EARN the right to wear the badge, boots and breeches, it is not given to you freely.

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Well said Killjoy... =D>

Posted by: JFSMSP

they've lost 73, count on deck 185, I counted them last night

Posted by: nirtallica

Those of you with a 95 better listen and start getting ready now. February is a short time away. If you look at the fiscal budget that just passed, you will see that the money is there for the 79 RTT.

Posted by: j809

Three of these guys's mass makes up one DI. I mean seriously, why show up there if you look like that.

Posted by: mannysaba

I understand the SPA is tough physically and mentally but you have to go in there with an open mind. They are trying to break you. If they break you, you are history. You can't take what they say to you personally. This is how I made it through boot camp. I knew it would be physically challenging so I prepared myself. You have to keep in mind, nothing they do to you in the academy is going to kill you. You have to dig down deep and tough it out.

Posted by: Clouseau

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannysaba";p=&quot

nothing they do to you in the academy is going to kill you. .

Provided you're well hydrated.

Posted by: SinePari

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy";p=&quot

Probably the #1 reason is lack pf physical fitness. You would not believe the fatbodies who show up Day 1 expecting this place to be some kind of fitness camp.

It is also BLATANTLY OBVIOUS, when someone shows up physically unprepared. All of the "shin splints", and foot/knee problems are indicators that those trainees did not prepare themselves.

Because if they did prepare, they would have identified those problems well in advance and made adjustments to their training/running shoes etc.

I ran up to 10 miles every other day, and told my wife "life is so much easier if you're in shape WHEN YOU ARRIVE", not trying to catch up.

Posted by: kttref

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinePari";p=&quot

It is also BLATANTLY OBVIOUS, when someone shows up physically unprepared. All of the "shin splints", and foot/knee problems are indicators that those trainees did not prepare themselves.

I agree that some people need to train more before SPA, or any academy for that matter...but some "shin splints" (as you put it) and foot/knee problems don't disappear over night. I've had achilles tendinitis for 6 years in both legs..While I've made adjustments to live with them I still have them. I had a bad right knee in high school and has been showing up again now that I'm running more...so I wear a brace sometimes.

Some of these trainees with these problems worked their asses off and still have the problem. Don't go running your mouth about people you don't know. And so you don't get any ideas, I never tested for MSP nor will I, so I didn't flunk out...

Posted by: Rich6896

[quote="kttref";p="69133"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinePari";p=&quot

I've had achilles tendinitis for 6 years in both legs..While I've made adjustments to live with them I still have them. I had a bad right knee in high school and has been showing up again now that I'm running more...so I wear a brace sometimes.

Some of these trainees with these problems worked their asses off and still have the problem. Don't go running your mouth about people you don't know. And so you don't get any ideas, I never tested for MSP nor will I, so I didn't flunk out...

It seems to me that if you have chronic pain such is a knee, or a back you have to realize that the academy is going to multiply these pains many times over. I'm sure that the MSP want to find the people now in the academy that lives with these pains and run them out now so they don't have to in all likelihood pay when they go on disability.

Posted by: kttref

People who have chronic pain live with it, and if someones dream was MSP or any organization, they'll make it through. They may hurt but they'll make it through.

Posted by: Curious EMT

MSP website convenienly has it listed!
http://www.mass.gov/portal/index.jsp?pageID=eopssubtopic&L=6&L0=Home& amp;L1=Funding+%26+Training+Opportunities&L2=L aw+Enforcement&L3=State+Police+Academy&L4= Academy+Recruit+Class+(R.T.T.)&L5=78th+Recruit +Training+Troop&sid=Eeops

Now thats just "classic"

And OOPS, someone forgot something somewhere.... And it's not a tee-pee....

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

The MSP site only shows how many are on deck, not how many ate a suck-pie and dropped out ...

Doesn't Mr. "I forgot my cover... oops..." kinda look like an old woman?

Posted by: stubrie

I love this site.
I'ts alright to post pictures of people and rag the shit out of them, but flame someone in a post and it gets you kicked off.
My question is, if you don't want so many dropouts why don't you just have a qualification timed 5 mile run. Don't be sneaky with the mile and a half, come straight at ya. That way you get a true number that can handle it....
My theory is that they enjoy having the dropouts, it boosts morale for those still in the academy and it allows the DI's to believe that their academy is the toughest around... just look at the dropout rate.
Gives em high marks with other state academies.....wow they drop like flies over there...
Should some people be more prepared, sure....
State of mind and mental toughness are 2 totally different animals.
It's just plain sad that the senior drill instructor is trawling the internet to try and trap some dropout.
The funny thing about this site is everyone ALWAYS sides with the troopers on the board.
Have an original thought.

Posted by: nirtallica

Who knows Curious EMT, if you make it to the 79th RTT that just may be you in the next batch of pics.

Posted by: Irishpride

Stubrie,

Why is it the only time you post on this board is when people are dogging on those who washed out of the SPA......is it a sensitive spot for you? I remember a few years ago you were posting about trying to get on MSP (If I remember correctly you even posted that you got accepted to the SPA) and now you come across as bitter about the rigorous academy they run......

care to elaborate?

Posted by: goirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvt. Cowboy";p=&quot

The MSP site only shows how many are on deck, not how many ate a suck-pie and dropped out ...

Doesn't Mr. "I forgot my cover... oops..." kinda look like an old woman?

Pvt. Cowboy - I don't know where you get off making fun of other people in an experience and situation you have never been in.

Though you do have some constructive comments Pvt. Cowboy, I have found many to be "second grade" in nature. They add very little to the conversation and are often disrespectful towards other individuals. You can make all the comments you want but when it is made in an attempt to disparage and disrespects another person, it crosses the line of appropriate/inappropriate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy";p=&quot

Interestingly enough, no one has really addressed WHY the recruits drop out.....why would you wait around for 2-3 years, spend a lot of dough on gear, and then, quit. As one of my co-workers said on Day 1, "These people quitting spent more time at Wal-Mart shopping for their gear than they did actually at the academy."

Probably the #1 reason is lack pf physical fitness. You would not believe the fatbodies who show up Day 1 expecting this place to be some kind of fitness camp. Let make this clear, so no one misunderstands, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN PASS THE PT TEST, DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE IN GOOD ENOUGH SHAPE FOR THE ACADEMY. If you arrive here in poor physical condition, expect to walking out, wiping your eyes, and dragging your suitcase shortly therafter. Expect 4-5 mile runs in the first weeks and longer runs to follow along with plenty of physical training as well.

Good shape is not the only factor as well, plently of people in good condition drop, a lack of mental toughness is another factor. It seems our soft society is good at raising people who expect they are "owed" something. Let me make this clear, just because you pass some background checks and a written test and some psych tests, you are not "owed" a job by the state police. You EARN the right to wear the badge, boots and breeches, it is not given to you freely.

Killjoy -

While I agree those are a couple good, solid reasons why people drop from the academy, isn't it also possible some people drop because DI''s go overboard in their treatment of recruits? I am not talking about forced PT but I am talking about singling out certain recruits and going after them and going after them and going after them through a gradual physical and psychological breakdown. Everyone has a breaking point.

Where is the line drawn as to what is appropriate and inapproriate treatment of recruits and who makes sure that line isn't crossed? Who decides what is appropriate conduct and what isnt? Are DI's expected to police themselves in terms of their conduct?

Also, isn't also possible that the training method (traditional military stress training) employed by the SPA isn't the most effective training method? How has the SPA staff determined the training method employed to be the best training method. Has research been conducted or cited by the curriculum staff to show that it is the best? Or is it just that it has worked in the past...it worked for the Marines...etc?

Why is it that so many people drop during the first weeks of the academy during the initial indoctrination period and not as many later on? If the academy had such high academic and training standards, it seems that there would be a loss of recruits further along in the academy too. Yet it seems at a certain point, with exception of a dismissal for an honor violation, no one is dismissed.

Points to ponder I guess.

Posted by: SinePari

Quote:

Originally Posted by kttref";p=&quot

Some of these trainees with these problems worked their asses off and still have the problem. Don't go running your mouth about people you don't know. And so you don't get any ideas, I never tested for MSP nor will I, so I didn't flunk out...

kttfef: Running my mouth, huh? Likewise to you my friend. I was an Army medic at a large training post for many years and have tons of hands-on experience with sports injuries.

These injuries are from lack of preparedness, or inproper training techniques, bad shoes etc. Believe me, the physical training at the SPA is basic stuff, and if you can't handle the bumps and bruisers you're gonna take, then like has been said before, don't waste a slot.

goirish: why don't you commision another study from Northeastern to figure out why trainees quit the SPA. That sounds like it would be money well spent. DI's going overboard? C'mon. In who's eyes is it overboard? If you don't have a big smile on the inside when that stuff is going on, then you're definitely taking everything personally.

And the academics are challenging. Besides, the entire academy staff plus the DIs make a level playing field for everyone. If you're an ace academically but are weak in military bearing or PT, you're gonna get hammered with gigs or DI-induced stress. If you have the academic ability of a tadpole but strong PT and military bearing, your name will be at the bottom of the test scores posted for all to see, and you'll get hammered that way.

You see? Equal opportunity hammering for all.

And for everyone who is interested in how many trainees quit, I say it's more important to be interested in who walks across the deck at graduation...they're the ones who will watch your six.

Posted by: kttref

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinePari";p=&quot

Likewise to you my friend. I was an Army medic at a large training post for many years and have tons of hands-on experience with sports injuries.

These injuries are from lack of preparedness, or inproper training techniques, bad shoes etc. Believe me, the physical training at the SPA is basic stuff, and if you can't handle the bumps and bruisers you're gonna take, then like has been said before, don't waste a slot.

Or they could be from the situation. I developed my leg injuries due to the fact I was running on hills, nothing more or less. All I'm saying is that people can prepare themselves for something all they want, do something new or different and an injury can occur.

Posted by: j809

Quote:

am not talking about forced PT but I am talking about singling out certain recruits and going after them and going after them and going after them through a gradual physical and psychological breakdown. Everyone has a breaking point.

Most of these people dropout in their first day or first couple of weeks. I don't think the DIs necessarily single out certain recruits non-stop in order to get them to quit. There's about 250 recruits when they start and only so many DIs. these people cannot handle even one day and drop out. The only reason you quit is if you have no HEART to get through.

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Nicely said J809... not enough HEART.

goirish, I'll make fun of anyone at any given time... you know why? Because I can... Sure, I've never been in the military, never been to the SPA, but let me tell you this... you can be Goddamn certain that if I ever get the chance to wear the uniform, I won't fuck it up, especially by forgetting something stupid like my cover. That's where I get off. Remember it for the next time.

What exactly is your purpose on this board goirish? To just kick the hornets nest? Criticize posts and those that work at the SPA for trying to break down those that don't have the mental/physical toughness to pass the academy? YOU add very little to the conversation of this board since you have 9 posts since December of '02.

Oh and the next time I post, I'll make sure I take a short poll on it to make sure that it is "appropriate", that way all the adults on this board won't get offended my my wise-ass cracks...

Posted by: Curious EMT

Aw man, we're getting off toppic.....

This was a great thread for the 77th, let keep this one around for this RTT...

So, how many people leave by a decision of someone else?

I realize if an injury occurs and they'de be out of service for XXX time, they're kicked. But do the DI's or other training / admin staff 'boot' people? Other than the obvious (disobaying, loyalty, etc) what could a recruit do (or not) to get an early and permenant holiday from the SPA?

If they cant run the 5-mile in XX time, but never give up, keep going, and dont fail, are they bumped? Do they try to judge if they can be improved before graduation? Or is it once-and-gone situation.....

What sort of situations may arise, other than Physical failure, that will cause a Recruit to drop / be droped?

Posted by: goirish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvt. Cowboy";p=&quot

Nicely said J809... not enough HEART.

goirish, I'll make fun of anyone at any given time... you know why? Because I can... Sure, I've never been in the military, never been to the SPA, but let me tell you this... you can be Goddamn certain that if I ever get the chance to wear the uniform, I won't fuck it up, especially by forgetting something stupid like my cover. That's where I get off. Remember it for the next time.

What exactly is your purpose on this board goirish? To just kick the hornets nest? Criticize posts and those that work at the SPA for trying to break down those that don't have the mental/physical toughness to pass the academy? YOU add very little to the conversation of this board since you have 9 posts since December of '02.

Oh and the next time I post, I'll make sure I take a short poll on it to make sure that it is "appropriate", that way all the adults on this board won't get offended my my wise-ass cracks...

Pvt. Cowboy - I was just trying to help stimulate a discussion. You can call it kicking the hornets nest if you want. Also, you are right that you have every right to say whatever you want, including making fun of people. I still disagree with your comment but I respect your points.

By the way, depite the questions I posed, I actually believe in the training method utilized at the SPA and I think the academy staff do a great job. I don't know if it is the most effective method, but I think it is useful and works. In my opinion, it certainly is better than the current program at some MCJTC academies. If there was any legit part of my previous post, that is it. How is it determined that the stress training is the most effective to use with recruits?

By the way, on the subject of training methods, I think this is an interesting article: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Winter2000_8522_7.pdf#search='Paramilitary%20Stres s%20Training'
It is from the Michigan State Police Training Division.

SinePari - I don't think there is a need for a Northeastern study. I think they have demonstrated their usefulness or lack thereof. There have been a few studies done on the subject, most inconclusive. I also don't take it personally. I was just trying to generate discussion. By the way, I think one of the contributors to why recruits drop is they take the yelling personally and it gets inside their heads. That would be part of the lack of mental toughness.

Posted by: futureMSP

I spoke with a MSP Trooper friend of mine and he told me they use a phase system for training. Similar to the State Police Academy I went to. The first phase has the drill instructors instructing and following your every move. No matter what you do you fail, in some facet you will fail. I think it helps instill the never accept failure attitude. It just continually forces you to work harder. But it also does weed a lot of people out for whatever reasons. It also helps intill the attitude of "I will do exactly what I am told no questions asked". In phase two the drill instructors start allowing the recruits to be more in control of whats going on. They may start giving some responsibility and some control to the recruits. Instead of telling them what to do and watching them ready to crush them the drill instructors tell you what to do and back off a little, unless you fail. During this phase you start to sucessfully complete tasks. During the third phase the control of the class is turned over to the class so to say. For example our class leaders began inspecting our rooms, but the drill instructors would check later in the day and hammer us for thigns we missed. They further instill the attention to detail and such. But also the less direct contact constantly with the drill instructors lowers the overall stress level. Again I have not been to the MSP SPA (maybe someday) and I don't know what they do exactly this is just what I am guessing. This type of an academy is a mix of the more academic and paramilitary. In my opinion the phase system works very well. It helps the class build accountability, they mess up and they could drop to a previous phase. The phases are slowly achieved through small increments.
I think this works well because the high stress in the beginning helps weed out those that aren't prepared for that type of stress. I have been in some situations on the side of a dirt road in the middle of nowhere (I know this decribes Vemont

) and had to deal with the logger who is a .28% and is three times the size of me. Calling for backup didn't work because the portable is useless and there were two troops on for 670+ square miles, I like to think the academy prepared me for dealing with him. That was a stressful situation, some people might not be able to deal with that stress, the academy helps find them. my .02 cents

Posted by: Killjoy

I suppose we could convert to to collegiate atmosphere, with no stress, no PT and holding everyone's hand..... I know that the dirtbags on the road would love that.....I know that criminals are always considerate of someone's personal feelings and/or physical limitations. Rats would happy to stop during the middle of a foot pursuit to give and "weight challenged" officer time to catch up. Likewise I'm sure that 250lb drunk your rolling around with at 0200 would be oh-so-glad to stop and give you a "time out". Maybe the armed robber shooting at you would be amenable to stopping and giving you a moment to collect your feelings because you're scared. I'm sure it would be a good idea to have a panic attack and lose all composure while at a multi-car, multiple fatality, multiple injury accident scene, to go to pieces right when everyone is dependent on YOU the lone Trooper to help them. Grow up people we live in a harsh world and it takes bulldogs to guard the sheep. This business isn't for everyone, and having weakness and doubt is a luxury law-enforcement officers can ill-afford. Rats will pick up on weakness in the streets in a heartbeat and eat you alive. In the immortal words of Jack Nicholson; "We live a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns." I don't know about you but I sleep better at night knowing that the training for the Marines, Soldiers, and yes, Troopers, out there is as tough as it can be. I want people out there TOUGHER than the criminals, not at their mercy, because believe me, if you aren't tougher than them, you are!

P.S. : I am no Drill Instructor....they're far too busy building Troopers to respond on the gutless comments of the uninformed.

Posted by: futureMSP

Well put killjoy!!

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Latest pictures are up on the MSP site... it looks like they're doing some serious defense tactics! Killjoy, Sinepari, or anyone else who knows for that matter, how much emphasis is placed at the academy on fighting? It appears as though there are a variety of styles learned, between the boxing pictures shown in the 77th pictures, and the wrestling pictures in the 78th.

Posted by: mannysaba

I understand where you are coming from Killjoy but how many troopers do you see out there on the road that are still in shape after being on the job for a few years. ANY and EVERY police organization should require you to maintain a certain level of fitness. Cops should have to pass a bodyfat comp and a physical fitness test each year as in the military. Three failures and you are gone. This will never happen because the union will never allow it. Just today, I saw a trooper on 495 that couldn't outrun a snail and probably had to have the uniform custom fit. I hate to be insulting but it was a disgrace to the uniform and to the state in which it represents.

Posted by: futureMSP

In Vermont we have a physical fitness test twice a year, our contract stipulates we must pass it. But we get paid for passing it. There are several levels, average, good, excellent, and superior. For each rating you get a higher amount of cash. The fitness standards are the cooper standards and are obviously staggered by age. It helps everybody stay at least somewhat in shape.

I also know some really fit MSP troopers, I think most of the younger guys are in pretty good shape. There are always a few people who don't stay fit in every organization. I can say that most of MSP Troopers I have seen look pretty fit.

Posted by: stubrie

Pride-I'm no whiner nor a rat. There's your elaboration.
Just like to see a fair one on one fight on even ground, win or loose.

Speaking of 250 pound 2 am shitheels....
Have any of you actually been in that situation (except VT Trooper up top)
Would be nice to hear how the trainning prepared you for that.
That rationale' I would understand (def tactics ect...)

Killjoy- Your boy Jack is in town, you should get his autographed photo and put it in the brim of your "hat".
Where's the popcorn.....
Funny, you don't see nurses and doctors running around acting like superheros.
No "S" on their chest.
What made you think I was ratting YOU out as senior drill instructor??
I never specifically mentioned your screen name in the above post.

There is no question that job of trooper is a difficult job and it is a hard road to get there. As it should be....
Still just do not understand why some agencies train their people different than others when they all do the same exact job.......

Posted by: kttref

Let's, everyone, get back on topic. This thread is specifically about the dropout count...not the physical fitness of troopers who are already on. I realize I'm not MOD but this tit for tat arguing is really pushing the thread way off topic.

Posted by: SinePari

If I remember correctly, DT was the largest block of instruction with something like 160 hours. Yes there are fat Troopers. It's the job of the SPA to make sure you don't become one of them. We don't need anymore fatbodies on the road.

As far as staying on topic, everyone who went to a municipal academy said the same thing. They are much better trained at the SPA and glad that people are stressed, PT'd hard, and enjoyed the fact that not everyone makes it.

Yes there is a goal to meet as far as number of graduates. But the Commandant and the Colonel see eye to eye on one thing: better to have one graduate who met the standards than 150 because they lowered the standards.

What it comes down to is desire. If you don't look at those uniforms, cruisers, or whatever blows your skirt up and say, "man, I can't wait to be there", save the slot for someone else. If you're just looking for a Commonwealth titty to suck on for the rest of your life, don't bother.

Posted by: ponyboy

Amen to that!

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubrie";p=&quot

Have any of you actually been in that situation (except VT Trooper up top)
Would be nice to hear how the trainning prepared you for that.
That rationale' I would understand (def tactics ect...)

Yes, I have.

I won.

Posted by: SPD3

I believe the total dropout count is around 75.

Resignation is still an option! Resignation is still an option! Hoorah.

Posted by: Wolfman

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbelichick";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by stubrie";p=&quot

Have any of you actually been in that situation (except VT Trooper up top)
Would be nice to hear how the trainning prepared you for that.
That rationale' I would understand (def tactics ect...)

Yes, I have.

I won.

Same here. All the training, starting with the yelling and screaming on Day 1 and continuing throughout the term prepares you to be able to enconter a situation and remain in control. It's not just DT and fitness, it's the mental state that can only be achieved through the military process of an Academy environment.

"Still just do not understand why some agencies train their people different than others when they all do the same exact job......."

This is where your shortsightedness will be your undoing.

Stubrie, the jobs aren't the exact same. There is a difference between policing in the hills of Berkshire County or in the projects in Boston. I've said it before, one isn't necessarily BETTER or TOUGHER than another, but they are different. You need to take factors like geography, availability of backup, and nature of the populace into account when training to work in these different areas. If you're doing 2-man patrol in an affluent suburb, perhaps your idea of warm and fuzzy training is more appropriate...but still, what do you do when it all goes to shit, when a domestic on Mercedes Circle turns into a shootout or you stumble onto 3 armed thugs in the middle of a B&E? What do you fall back on? That has probably never happened to most on this board, but it doesn't mean it CAN'T. How many police officers carry guns? Why train in firearms when statistically speaking you will never need to use it? Because you just MIGHT have to someday. That's why you train, that's why you qualify, that's why someone who is unable to meet the basic criteria should not be out there because it places THEM and also their PEERS at risk. Real risk, the risk of being KILLED, which is something that doctors and nurses don't have to worry about every time they punch a clock, and why it's absurd to compare them or any other civilian profession with policing.

---My $.02. Carry on.

Posted by: Irishpride

Quote:

Originally Posted by kttref";p=&quot

Let's, everyone, get back on topic. This thread is specifically about the dropout count...not the physical fitness of troopers who are already on. I realize I'm not MOD but this tit for tat arguing is really pushing the thread way off topic.

If the primary reason for people dropping out of the SPA is that they are in poor physical condition then I think that discussing PT is totally appropriate here.

Posted by: kttref

I think discussing PT during SPA is one thing. I think complaining about "fat" troopers out on the road now is another.

Posted by: stubrie

I don't question the training, I just question the mecanics.
What's the purpose of the "peer evaluation"?

I don't question the fact that there is more trainning in the SP than municipal. I'm sure it's better overall. Train people in a high stress enviornment, that is understood. Not triing to be negative, but some major metropolitan agencies have dropped their standards. Why??
I know it's due to the courts, but some of their standards were low to begin with.

Wolf-You missed my point, I mention Dr's and nurses as a rebuttal to killjoys' comments laying it on thick painting troopers as superheroes.
Not in regards to their job. They too have a thankless job, but yet do not brag about their power to SAVE LIVES.
The question was posed, why do people drop.
Some can't handle it mentally, understood.
Some can't handle it physically, understood.
When someone can't handle the physical what happens?? They are bounced, right??
Well not always, and that is my bone.
Not the surface games, (DI's yelling), but the games that people play, where they have the advantage; and there is not a stinking thing you can do about it.
No one knows more than me that this world is not utopia, but why are you battling against the same people that you are going to be working with.
Deep thoughts by Jack Handy.....

Posted by: badogg88

Does anyone know if there are any females left?

Posted by: TheSnake

yup

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

painting troopers as superheroes

Troopers, and for that matter every police officer, EMT, firefighter, soldier, sailor, airman and marine is a "superhero", as you so condenscendingly put it. Those scenarios I listed are not from my imagination; I have been involved in every one of those. It is from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, that I know these things are true. Unless you are out there making the arrests, swinging the road, cleaning up the accidents, and intervening in the domestics, you really wouldn't have a clue as to what we do. You can belittle our job, and our training methods as much as you want...that's the luxury of being on the sidelines and being protected by others.

Posted by: stubrie

The true superhero never toots their own horn, bub.
Do I think all of the above mentioned are super heroes, yep.
I'ts the old ladies that sit around talking negative smack while playing their bridge games that really believe they know all the answers that I have the issues with.
I'll be in the mix soon enough.
I won't finish this career without some semblance of purpose.

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

I'ts the old ladies that sit around talking negative smack while playing their bridge games that really believe they know all the answers that I have the issues with.

Take a long look in the mirror on this one.....it' not the dirty lies that hurt, kid, its the dirty truth....

Quote:

The true superhero never toots their own horn, bub

How do you know? Are you Batman? Seriously though, I was not "tooting" my horn, the scenarios I listed are things that police officers encounter every day and get little or no thanks for. Believe me, as a police officer no one is ever happy to see you....you're either arresting them (or their friend), giving them a ticket, or cleaning up an accident, not exactly the high points of anyone's day.

Quote:

I'll be in the mix soon enough.

But you're still on the sidelines now.....don't make blanket statements about things which you know very little about. There is a world of difference between watching cops and taking CJ classes and actually being out on patrol. You know what drives us police officers crazy; the fact that everyone tries to tell us how to do our jobs. I wouldn't presume to tell a surgeon how to operate, or tell a pilot how to fly, yet it seems that no one has any problem telling us how to do our job.

Posted by: badogg88

Sturbrie, I thought you said you didn't want to be a Statie when you PMd me? You said you had bad encounters with state police...does that mean you are BIASED against them?

Posted by: stubrie

I'ts stubrie not sturbrie, you must truely have a thing for those STURbridge troopers....
How could I be biased with those sexy uniforms!!

Killjoy-
My issue is not with police officers and the job, it's with police officers that think they are better than someone else, that's it, period. You guys think your better than everyone else. Don't give me that "we are not better just different" BS. If you think your better than just come straight out and say it....
Why would you of all people ask why people drop, your baiting dropouts just for more of an ego trip. I't's deplorable.
We can go round and round, it's entertaining and passes time but is getting old.
I'll let you have the last word, i know you NEED that.

Posted by: nirtallica

Here's the deal Stubrie:
First, we do think we are better than other local law enforcement. As the State Police, we carry ourselves in a manner that borders on cockiness, but the perception the public sees is that of confidence. It is part of our culture. It is something that has been engrained in us from day one at the SPA. This is not meant to take away from other law enforcement. This is only meant to enhance our effectiveness to the public who view us as THE STATE POLICE. I know when I was a kid growing up , I feared the State Police more than the locals. When the State Police got involved, look out. Heads were going to roll. And as far as the Academy is concerned, it bothers me when people bash others who could not cut the mustard when they have not even been accepted to the State Police. How can someone talk s**t when they have no idea what the SPA is all about? How do they know they will even make it though the SPA? 'nuff said.

Posted by: Wolfman

EVERYONE!!!

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica";p=&quot

Here's the deal Stubrie:
First, we do think we are better than other local law enforcement.

I disagree. I work a lot with a local PD and find them to be some of the greatest cops you could ask for. I don't consider myself "better."

I have great pride in my organization and what it represents, but that doesn't make me better than the F/T local guy.

Posted by: SEABASS

Nirtallica,
I have a question. Why is it that you feared any police officer? That's
a little strange. One another thing. Perhaps you should not speak for your entire agency about being better than any local officer.

Posted by: badogg88

maybe everyone should just drop it because i feel like i'm in high school again.

Posted by: chief801

It's funny, everytime this comes up, it shows how similar people are. No matter what organization you personally become affiliated with (fraternity, street gang, special ops) people always feel that theirs is the "best". I think it is healthy to have pride in your organization. I've said it before, I don't want anyone on my team who doesn't personally feel he/she is the "best". That's what makes a good team. Keep it in perspective folks! An individual's pride/arrogance isn't displayed to put others down in most cases. It's displayed by individuals to make themselves feel good. There isn't a department out there who doesn't have a couple of all-stars and a couple of slugs within their ranks.
Does the SP have a tougher academy? Absolutely! Do they churn out better prepared rookies? I think so. The issue here is that there is a leveling off of ability over time without continued training. SWAT teams, military special ops, etc. constantly train to keep their skills and abilities superior to the average joe. Once out of the academy and outside of the training environment those skills will diminish. To sum it up, early on, I think the trooper is better trained than municipal rookie. Over time I think the municipal guys, in most cases, handle a larger variety of situations and become better law enforcement generalists than troopers. Troopers become better specialists (i.e. chapter 90, accident investigation, STOP Team, CPAC, etc.) Just my observations!
And by the way, HPD has no slugs!

Posted by: ponyboy

Well said Chief.

Posted by: bbelichick

I agree with the Chief on this one. Use it or lose it. The more you do of something, the better you get at it.

Some of the B and C guys handle their share of Domestics etc, however. And OUI's...Usually the local guys are THROWING them at the MSP guys to avoid them, while most Troopers LOVE an OUI

Posted by: nirtallica

Seabass,
I think you misunderstood me. I just wanted to clarify myself. First, when I said feared, I meant more of a healthy respect. It was a generalized statement. Second, I don't personally think I am better than any other LE officer. I feel that the organization as a whole is better. We have better equipment, training, more funding, etc. I have had plenty of locals came to back me on a car stop. There are a lot of great locals who are great cops . I have the utmost respect for local depts. I myself have a lot of pride in this uniform and what it represents, so excuse me if I tend to defend it when others try to trash it.

Posted by: Clouseau

[quote="bbelichick";p="69552"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica";p=&quot

I disagree. I work a lot with a local PD and find them to be some of the greatest cops you could ask for. I don't consider myself "better.".

Thanks bbelichick. You're a gentleman and a scholar. I don't care what the sheriff says about you. PM me your cellphone, I'll call you every night with an OUI.

An academy is only the beginning people. It takes experience to hone your skills and get good at something. Some good points chief.

When I'm going through the door or taking them out of a car, I don't want the kid that ran the fastest, shot a hundred or was the class president.
I don't want the house mouse supervisor. The one who had two weeks on the job and was transferred into a special unit and started studying for numerous promotional exams and is now a supervisor/station commander... never having worked the street after sunset.

Whether boots or bates lites, I want the guy who's done it before. Have you done it? If so, how many times? If not...STFU.

Wolfman is correct, state/municipal jobs are two different animals. I know when I key the mic, twenty cops will be there in less than a minute. It's a nice feeling that most troopers and small town cops don't have. Though the norm, it isn't always this way. I have been trapped in apartment buildings where the down stairs entrance door became locked, leaving me alone in the apartment with the cop hating gargantuan brothers, or with the family that turns on you.

I've been in back yards and alleys rolling around on the ground, I hear the sirens and know the guys are looking for me, but when they can't find me, it feels like an eternity. I don't pretend to know what it is like knowing I am the only one in 20 square miles. I do know what it is like feeling like the only one.

In the end, it is the will to fight, to win, and
to go home, not the color of your uniform, or what academy you went through. That's what keeps you alive.

After 10 years or so, your opinion of the world, society, uniforms etc. changes. You realize the important thing is doing your time to get a half ass pension... while not getting killed, injured, sued, or suspended. You realize you're fighting a war that can never be won.

In the mean time, you make some friends, some money and have some fun while doing a little good for society.

The municipal and state cops I know all have one thing in common. They are all looking forward to the house in Florida.

If you're not a cop, got less than 5 years on the street or have not worked both the state and municipal beat, you really have no business bad mouthing other departments/academies/jobs etc. You have no idea of reality.

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Anyone know the official count? MSP website says its still at 183... hasn't been changed in days...

Kinda want to get back on topic before we get locked, or even worse, Northeastern University is going to issue mandatory "Who's the better department" forms...

Oh yeah, and I know what Nirtallica is talking about, fearing the MSP... I agree. As a civilian, it's a bit more intimidating having a C-troop cruiser behind me, than one of the local cruisers... It may just be demographics, and I'm certainly NOT knocking ANY municipal police officer for that matter... MSP just has a reputation for being hard-asses... certain municipalities do too though make no mistake. How many times has one heard, "What town do you live in? Oh man... those cops suck in that town... " and they certainly don't mean those cops don't know what they're doing, they mean, "Don't drive through that town a mile over the speed limit, or use an aerosol spray in a manner other than directed... " Just my civilian $0.02

Posted by: Curious EMT

Regarding the Count On Deck,
If I remember correctly, by this time last-RTT, the count stabalized. I dont recall them loosing anyone after the first 4 weeks. I could be very wrong, but it sure wasn't a lot.

Regarding MSP / Muni.

Yes, they both specialize in work very different. While Brockton officers may hate the OUI, because reports for the next 4 hours is a lot of strain off the domestics, alarms, and other reactive calls, whereas MSP's scope of duties will enable them to selectively tie themselves up....

Regarding Image? Im sorry, MSP gets it. Ive dealt with MSP on both side. Yea, been pulled over a few times by them, its a little scarey to be honest. Being pulled over by a local? You realize you have a "chance". Dealing with MSP as an EMT in the past itself was a bit intimidating, why? They are more like street-soldiers and less like iner city thugs.

Driving in worcester, theres a Worcester officer doing a deail off 290 near 146. He's there, chatting away with some other civi who's truck is blocking half of already narrow road, and he throws some sort of wraper on the ground. Sorry, but I cant have any confidence in this sort of LEO, and it seems WAY too common in the citys....

You dont see MSP troopers looking different, acting different, different designed cruisers, and half-ass attitudes.. not as a civi...

That image alone is huge into the public's perception of the MSP, even without any first hand experiences... and to that: Good job guys....

No one says "Trooper Bob pulled me over" its "the state police pulled me over" or "the boston cops took my beer" or whatever... what is done in any organization is a representation of that entire dept, and MSP sure dont offer too many chances to negatively effect one's image of the MSP, and what they stand for......

Just as the sound of a ASP / PR-24 being opened is a psychological weapon, the overal image of the Dept is too....

Posted by: Clouseau

[quote="Curious EMT";p="69590"]
They are more like street-soldiers and less like iner city thugs.
[/quote ]

I know what you mean Curious EMT. I feel the same way about Emt's and
paramedics. Nothing like the uniforms and image of Boston EMS. Everyone matches and the ambulance colors are the same throughout the city. They're like soldiers...guardian angels.

It cracks me up when I see those different colored ambulances and uniforms of Cataldo, Pro, Action ambulance etc. I seen an EMT from some north shore ambulance company eating a Big Mac once. He then threw the bag under the ambulance.

Sorry, but if I'm down in the middle of the street bleeding and an ambulance pulls up, it better be Boston EMS or I'm waiving him off. How could I have faith in anyone else? I'll wait for Boston EMS...at least I'll have a chance.

Posted by: MC1010

As of today, the official count on deck is 177. And they still continue to drop everyday!!!!!

Posted by: nirtallica

Closeau,
With all due respect, I am sure you deserve such. I am not someone who just decided I wanted to be a Statie because the money was good. I understand the risks involved. I was a State screw before. Let me ask you this: do you know what it is like to have p**s and s**t thrown at you? Or that every con that you have in your unit has a weapon and will use it if need be while you have no defense other than your two hands? You seem to think that I am someone with no sense of reality. Try working at Walpole and tell me then about reality. I am sure your beat is tough but be careful on how you judge your peers.

Posted by: Jasper

Nertallica, you lack Bbelichick's maturity. I personally respect the State Police but not because of their employer or academy. I respect them because they are full time police officers. Municipal police respond to the overwhelming majority of crimes in progress and consider traffic enforcement a secondary issue - many, but not all, local police consider State Police to primarily handle dmv's and to be there as assistance. The Sherrif Departments are encroaching more and more into what should be State Police responsibilities.
Don't disrespect the municipal police - we handle far more domestics, robberies, fights, etc in a week than you probably do in 3 months. I am NOT disrespecting the SP - we have different roles but a common bond. Several of the guys i worked with went on to the State Police and they confirm what i say. Check your ego and be respectful and pragmatic. The State Police are ok in my book, but ego maniacs like you hurt their reputation. There are a few in every group.... By the way, MANY of us here worked in Corrections - I did for 10 yrs - i thought it was boring . Walpole too. Same structured routine and things every day with relatively rare exeptions - stop exagerating. Calm down and give respect if you want to earn it. Guys like you disparage your peers. You are not better than local police - just less experienced.

Posted by: RPD931

Quote:

Originally Posted by MC1010";p=&quot

As of today, the official count on deck is 177. And they still continue to drop everyday!!!!!

Only 12 more to go!

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Survey says..... 175!!

Posted by: MC1010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pvt. Cowboy";p=&quot

Survey says..... 175!!

you are absolutely right....another 2 broke the hatch today!!!! Count on deck stands at 175 starting off with 255.... ouch!!!!!

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Anyone know how many stand-by's were called? I would assume the count on deck includes all the stand-by's that were called, right? So even then... the actual drop-out count would actually be higher than 80... more like 100 or so? Am I making sense?

Posted by: JFSMSP

no, there were 58 standbys and 200 original 83 or so have dropped

Posted by: MC1010

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFSMSP";p=&quot

no, there were 58 standbys and 200 original 83 or so have dropped

Just a slight correction on the totals. The first dreaded Day One, 200 were suppose to show and 200 did show. On the second Day One, 57 were suppose to show but only 55 showed. So out of a total of 255 that did show, only 175 remain. But, as i stated before, they still continue to drop and break the hatch.

Posted by: Cadet101

That's great, let me know when they get to 95's. What I don't understand is why they don't have more people on stand by. This would give many more people who actually want this career a chance.

Well, to all those waiting for MSP, don't hold your breath. I like most of you would love to get on MSP but because of funding and not scoring a perfect score makes it almost impossible to complete your goal. I was born and raised here in MA. I went to college here and even did my internship with MSP. Most of the Troopers I spoke to during my internship gave me great advice.

Don't wait for MSP, keep building your resume and keep taking the test. If you have a chance to get on with another police department then I would get on. There are many other opportunities to become a police officer in another state. I am currently going through the process with Phoenix Police Department and hope to be in their academy by fall. If at some point I do get contacted by MSP, I will have a decision to make. Who knows, by then I could be happy in Phoenix and not want MSP anymore. Just keep all your options open and don't give up. The hiring process can get frustrating and at times you just wanna quit but don't. Eventually you will accomplish your goal.

Just my 2 cents

Posted by: Curious EMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadet101";p=&quot

What I don't understand is why they don't have more people on stand by. This would give many more people who actually want this career a chance.

They have a certin number of Troopers they want after the class, then figure in a % of dropouts, and come up with a start-out figure.

So, in all actuality, MORE people are given the chance, as recruits, but they blow it.

With today 's life of PC this and suck-off that, its a shame that so many show up undeserving of ever stepping foot inside those walls.... Then again, its always fun to watch them fail....

Posted by: phuzz01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curious EMT";p=&quot

Then again, its always fun to watch them fail....

Until you have BTDT, I don't think you can really judge. Plus, if you really are a MSP hopeful, and you do eventually get that call, you will probably be wishing that you had bitten your tongue...somebody is always watching.

Posted by: BIG IRISH

Sorry you people with 95's might be out of luck with the 79th RTT because over 50 people have medically defered to the 79th RTT from the 78thRTT. This may make it impossible for them to reach you on the list. Just thought you would like to know. I'll see you when I get out in December!!

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Hey!! More good news!! That's f*cking awesome... \

Posted by: fore2213

Hey guys, im back!! Everything went well....thank to all the guys who wished me well. I am back training and will be ready for next Feb. Does anyone know when the 79th process will begin....will it be accelerated like the 78th???

Posted by: Irishlacop

I am just curious how much time "Nirtallica" has on the job?
I am not looking for an argument, just wondering.

Have a nice day!

Posted by: kttref

Quote:

Originally Posted by fore2213";p=&quot

Hey guys, im back!! Everything went well....thank to all the guys who wished me well. I am back training and will be ready for next Feb. Does anyone know when the 79th process will begin....will it be accelerated like the 78th???

Glad to hear everything went well! That's great!

Posted by: Dogma20001

Fore, glad everything went well. As for the process, the 79th RTT application form was just put up on the website today. It doesn't say anything about what scores or when it will start though.

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

I have to agree completely with BB on this one, many of the locals I've worked with are some of the best cops I know.

Quote:

Municipal police respond to the overwhelming majority of crimes in progress and consider traffic enforcement a secondary issue - many, but not all, local police consider State Police to primarily handle dmv's and to be there as assistance.

I do take some issue with this statement, though. I think that the overwhelming number of municipal responses are not "crimes in progress" so much as "crimes already committed". The majority of the time the crime has already been committed and there's really not a lot that can been done, other than filling out the paperwork, at least in property crimes (i.e. stolen vehicle, B&E, vandalism, etc.), With domestics someone usually gets locked up, but then again, we've all seen how that goes, with the victim often bailing the offender and refusing to testify at their trial. One of the things I love about the SP so much is the proactive rather than reactive stance (an advantage, I'll admit, of not being tied at the hip to the 911 system). I love getting OUI's because, in essence, I was stopping the crime before someone got hurt or killed. Drunk/drugged drivers were a public safety hazard, period and there was no ambiguity to locking them up. Also interdiction work to stop drugs and guns before they're sold and used is much the same issue. One of the Troopers I used to work with recently got THREE guns off a couple of mopes on a "routine" (I hate that term) traffic stop. Perhaps he stopped three or more murders from being committed, but who knows?
It's been said before, us and local police simply have different jobs in many ways, and both, I believe, excel at them.

By the way, I apologize for being WAY off topic.......

Posted by: mtc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clouseau";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannysaba";p=&quot

nothing they do to you in the academy is going to kill you. .

Provided you're well hydrated.

Which, if you are in the academy, you will find, is a requirement! The water coolers cannot be less than 1/4 full or something like that.

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

174 seems to be holding strong! Anyone think they're going to have anymore drop outs?

Posted by: Pvt. Cowboy

Can anyone... please... explain this to me??
Buzz Lightyear standard issue body armor... and tin foil hats??
Holy shit...

Posted by: PVD24

Not Buzz light year but a teaching tool of the MSP. Its a scenario based situation that the Recruits get called to. Its a Trooper who needs to where protection because "they are coming" That's all I remember from that scenario... We had a lot of fun.. and learned quite a bit.

Posted by: SinePari

It's scenario training. Tpr Packard from the SPA is role playing as "Harry", an EDP who needs help. The trainee is in protective gear for simunitions.

Posted by: irish937

Both of you are being ignorant. How about a little humility?? We are ALL on the SAME team. Different jobs, SAME team!!! Get it through all of your big heads. Stop perpetuating the argument.

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