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Posted by: tska

Quick question on firearm compliance with the FID restrictions...MA MGL's state that:

"(6) A firearm identification card shall not entitle a holder thereof to possess: (i) a large capacity firearm or large capacity feeding device therefor" (Chapter 140, Sec. 129B)

I can't find the MGL section, but a large-capacity firearm/device is one that can carry more than 10 rounds.

It also states that an FID-compliant firearm cannot a) accept a large-capacity feeding device, or b) be readily modified to accept such a device.

Does that mean that weapons that LEO's can buy 12, 15, 17 round magazines for aren't FID compliant?

And finally, would something like the Glock 29 or Glock 30 be FID-compliant?

I'm looking to get into LE someday, but I'm not 21 and can't get an LTC yet, but I'd like to have some marksmanship experience before the academy.

Thanks for the help

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Posted by: john77

In MA you cannot have a magazine for a pistol that is over 10 rounds unless you are LE, unless they were manufactured and owned in MA before 1994. There are a few more intricacies to it than just that, but that is the basic gist of it. As far as Glock's are concerned only certain Glocks are available for sale in MA (I believe pre-199. Even though the new models are on the MA approved fireams list, they do not meet the AG guidelines, making them illegal for retail sale in MA. They would be legal for private sale, but since in order to purchase a pistol from someone outside of MA you need to go through an FFL it then becomes illegal for the FFL to transfer the gun to you (confusing, I know). As far as marksmanship before the academy, I know alot of government agencies (FBI etc) prefer you to not obtain prior firearms training so as not to develop poor habits that they cannot "unteach". I am not sure how MPTC feels about it though.

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Posted by: 2-Delta

If I'm understanding your post right, an FID card and LTC are two seperate things. FID allows purchase of BB guns, shotguns, etc but no "pistols". Even though your class A LTC reads "large capacity", you wont be able to get your hands on any new high cap guns either unless your LE.

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Posted by: mpd61

WOW!

You're all over the map with terms like "FID-Compliant" and references to "LE 12/15/17 round" mags and Glocks being "FID Compliant"

FID card does NOT relate to anything handgun. period, end of story.

Handguns; Licence To Carry (LTC)
Class A=Large capacity (10 round or higher with legal "pre-ban" mags.)
Class B=Revolvers or semi-autos with capacity of less than 10 rounds

Class A=Concealed carry permit
Class B=Legal to purchase, possess, transport NOT concealed

So endeth the lesson FID (long gun) Vs. LTC (hangun) 101

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Posted by: LenS

Let me try to clarify some confusion here:

FID = LONG guns only, rifles with capacity of 10 or less and shotguns with capacity of 5 or less.

LTC-B = any rifle/shotgun that is legal in MA of any capacity, PROVIDED that any high-capacity mags or AWBs (as defined in the law) were mfd prior to 9/13/94. They could have legally existed anywhere on Earth at that time. Any pistol that has a capacity of 10 rounds or less, unless it is on the "high capacity list" (caution: S&W 41 a popular .22 target pistol once was sold with an 11 rd mag, therefore ALL S&W 41s are considered high-capacity). Dealers can't sell any pistol that is not on the approved handgun list (issued by EOPS) unless it was legally possessed IN MA on 10/21/98 AND (if newer than 10/21/9 certified by the mfr to meet the AG's requirements. You can NEVER carry a loaded handgun on a LTC-B.

LTC-A = anything above plus any high capacity handgun and/or high capacity mag, as long as they were made prior to 9/13/94, regardless of where on Earth the gun was located. Depending on any restrictions put on the LTC-A, you MAY be able to carry concealed handguns.

All handguns must either be sold/purchased between LTC holders (both being MA residents), or you must buy from a MA FFL (for any interstate purchases) . . . however the MA FFL can ONLY sell handguns that are approved by EOPS and meet the AG's requirements as noted above or exempt as noted above.

You must be 21 to obtain a LTC. BB, pellet guns, antiques, and airsoft guns do NOT need any permits to purchase or possess, although there are some other age restrictions and requirements for a permit to buy gun powder or carry a black powder pistol.

Chief Ron Glidden's book covering MA Firearms Laws exceeds 300 pages, so there is a lot of info and confusion on what is or is not legal. Book is available from MPI and we've arranged for Chief Glidden to give a seminar free to the public at Braintree R&P this coming Sunday to try to dispel the myths and provide solid knowledge on the laws. Event is posted at
http://www.masscops.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7422

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Posted by: tska

Ahhhhhhh....I misunderstood it - LenS, that clears it up - I thought I had heard somewhere that things like revolvers and small pistols were legal under an FID. Thanks for the clarification, I guess I'm the proof that, like you said, there's a lot of misinformation out there

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Posted by: LenS

Don't feel bad. Chief Glidden is the only one I've met to date that really understands all of these gun laws. And that is only because he spends a lot of hours each day talking with the lawyers at EOPS, CHSB and the legislative staff that wrote the stuff to understand what they mean!

That's why I've arranged with Braintree R&P to bring him out to speak. The club is paying his speaking fee and offering it free to anyone that attends, as a community public service.

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Posted by: TripleSeven

How can someone tell if a Glock magazine is pre-ban? When I bought my pre ban G23 from a local dealer, it came with 3 hi cap 13rd. mags, and they all look like there are practically new.

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Posted by: mpd61

Well......................

At the risk of LenS smacking me with Glidden's big stick,

Pre-ban magazines will NOT have "export/ LE or military use" on them.

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Posted by: LenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61";p=&quot Well...................... At the risk of LenS smacking me with Glidden's big stick, Pre-ban magazines will NOT have "export/ LE or military use" on them.

LOL, I don't pick on anyone. I just try to convey the correct info . . . and it is damn difficult to keep track of.

One caution on mags. I've seen some damn-near microscopic export/LE only engraving on some mags (Ar15 mags come to mind here) that are easy to miss. You may need to look VERY carefully. There are plenty of unscrupulous dealers out there too that will think nothing of jamming you up.

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Posted by: TripleSeven

I checked all 3... none of them have any "LE only" markings

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Posted by: LenS

New, post-9/13/04 mags are NOT marked either!

Some mags didn't exist pre-9/13/94 and others have changed their design so that an enterprising DA (aspiring to "look tough on crime" and/or running for higher office) could jam someone up rightfully or wrongfully. Thus one must be extra careful and getting a statement of pre-ban on a sales receipt might help prove that you were trying to comply with the law.

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Posted by: MGH_PD

Regarding hi-cap mags i know someone who brought his to the local PD to have them look at them. It's not a perfect system but if it turns out later that they were illegal post-ban mags A it shows it was an honest mistake because you were concerned enough to involve the police and B if a police officer couldnt tell the diffrence then how could you? IMHO(which is very humble as i dont know sh*t about gun laws) i would say if you guestion something dont buy it ask for a price break instead of taking the mags if your werent sure

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Posted by: LenS

The gun laws are much too convoluted to expect any police officer to know a pre-ban vs. post-ban mag from looking at them.

That's why Chief Ron Glidden puts so much effort into writing his books on the law, teaching at MPTC, running the seminars for LE and gun clubs (like the one scheduled this Sunday at Braintree R&P).

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Posted by: Mach

Quote:

Originally Posted by LenS";p=&quot LTC-A = anything above plus any high capacity handgun and/or high capacity mag, as long as they were made prior to 9/13/94, regardless of where on Earth the gun was located.

Pretty sure high cap mags must have been in existance 9/13/94, but handguns on the list must have a manufacture date of before 1 Oct 98. At least that is what the dealers are using.

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Posted by: LenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach";p=&quot Quote: Originally Posted by LenS";p=&quot LTC-A = anything above plus any high capacity handgun and/or high capacity mag, as long as they were made prior to 9/13/94, regardless of where on Earth the gun was located. Pretty sure high cap mags must have been in existance 9/13/94, but handguns on the list must have a manufacture date of before 1 Oct 98. At least that is what the dealers are using.

OK, I see that I may have created some additional confusion here. I'll try again in this narrow area:

Mags:
- ALL hi-cap mags must have been mfd prior to 9/13/94, but it doesn't matter where they were located prior to your purchase (anywhere in the world).

- Handguns:
* exempt from AG Regs if MFD prior to 10/21/98, regardless of where in the world they came from or were located on that date.
* ANY handgun can be sold by dealers ONLY if it was "in state" on 10/21/98 AND legally possessed by someone under any provision of Chapter 140 (dealer, mfr, LTC holder, etc.).
* If the handgun was MFD after 10/21/98, in order for a MA Dealer to sell it, it MUST meet the AG Regs AND be on the EOPS "List" of approved handguns.
* If the handgun was MFD after 10/21/98 AND does NOT meet the AG Regs AND exists on the EOPS "List" of approved handguns, it can ONLY be sold privately (between two LTC holders) in MA.
* If the handgun was MFD BEFORE 10/21/98, but was NOT in MA on that date AND does NOT exist on the EOPS "List" of approved handguns, it can ONLY be sold privately (between two LTC holders) in MA.
* It does NOT matter if the handgun is considered a hi-cap (e.g. Glock) or not regarding when it was manufactured. Possession of hi-cap mags is a different issue than a hi-cap handgun. For example, the NEW Glocks (hi-cap handgun) has been on the "List" of approved handguns for a few years, but it fails to meet the AG's double-secret Regs (thus it can't legally be sold by MA Dealers except to LE agencies/officers on letterhead). If it ever meets the AG's Regs, it will be legal for sale in MA, yet it is a hi-cap handgun of new design.

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Posted by: Mach

LenS

Thanks for the clarification. Re-reading your post, I miss understood what you had said.

I still don't understand how the state AG gets away with making up his own 1 person hand gun control regs. It amazes me how the MA AG considers my fed issued duty weapon to be 'defective' because it isn't submitted for testing and therefore can't be sold by a dealer in the state.

maybe someone will run against him next time.

Rant over

mach

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