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Main Page Wheelguns for carry
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: mpd61

Anybody still carrying a "classic" like mine. I mean, not everybody carries a glock 26/27 right?

Posted by: misconceived

S&W Model 38.

Posted by: Tuna

We carried S&W model 60's and 65's for years shot a +p+ 38 the 65's were chambered for a 357. Loved it. Went to the Sigma 40 cal (didn't like it ) then to the Glock Model 22. (good gun) Never had a missfire or a stovepipe with the wheel gun.

Posted by: frank

I've thought about getting a snubbie, but I can't seem to find a good used one at a good price whenever I stop in at the gun shops...

Posted by: HousingCop

S&W Model 49 2" shrouded hammer, early 70's vintage. You never need a revolver until you need one real bad, I always say.

Posted by: Delta784

I still have my first police gun....good old S&W Model 10, but it hasn't left my house in a loooooong time.

Posted by: Wolfman

S&W 638. Bring it everywhere except the pub.

Posted by: mpr4601

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

Anybody still carrying a "classic" like mine. I mean, not everybody carries a glock 26/27 right?

That's the same model I carry off duty, just with some different grips.

Posted by: sdb29

I've got a S&W Model 60 that I bought back in 1979 from a guy at my old department. I think I paid like $125.00 for it and I still carry it just about every day.

Posted by: Q5-TPR

I carry a S&W 342PD with .38 +P sometimes off duty and as my back-up. I flip flop between the .38 and the Kimber off duty. The .38 is a good pocket gun when shorts and t-shirt are the order of the day.

Posted by: dfc2502

I bought a Taurus model 85 back in the late 80's. Still carry it to this day.

Posted by: PapaBear

I still carry my S&W Chief's special, 5 shot, 2" bbl, and +P+ ammo. Easy to conceal and been in use since I purchased it in 1963.

Posted by: Killjoy

S&W Model 638 in .38 Special, loaded with Speer +P 110 grain loads.

Quote:

I still carry my S&W Chief's special, 5 shot, 2" bbl, and +P+ ammo. Easy to conceal and been in use since I purchased it in 1963.

PB-That could be dangerous, if the gun was not rated for +P loads. As far as I know, S&W didn't start rating .38 revolvers for +P loads until the 90's.

Posted by: Zuke

Got a 9mm Ruger Sp101

Posted by: kwflatbed

The Snubnose: The little gun that could…

Law Enforcement Firearms
with Richard Fairburn

When I started out more than 90 percent of all police officers carried a revolver for a sidearm. No, they weren’t cap & ball muzzleloaders ... I’m not THAT old! As you can verify at any police firing range you choose, nowadays almost NOBODY carries a revolver anymore. With one exception ...
Most officers now pack the latest polymer-framed, computer-designed, indestructible, laser-guided wonder pistol in (insert your favorite) caliber that fires thermonuclear-tipped hollow-point projectiles at a muzzle velocity just shy of the speed of light. The real shootists scorn anything made of “plastic,”so they wouldn’t be caught dead without a hand-built 1911 pattern pistol that costs at least $2,000 (not counting magazines and other essential accoutrements).
But, the dirty little secret is - drum roll, please - when these same officers leave home for the quick trip to pick up a gallon of milk at the corner stop-n-rob, they likely as not drop a .38 snub nosed revolver in their pocket for the errand. Still more high-tech cops carry a lightweight snubbie in an ankle holster (or in a jacket pocket) as a back-up gun. And, they almost seem ashamed to admit they own a wheel gun.
The favorite snubnose revolver we see today is probably chambered for the old .38 Special cartridge, has a barrel about two inches long and probably holds five rounds. Some of the newer ones chamber the .357 Magnum round, but anyone who has fired them with magnum ammo generally end up loading the milder .38 loads.
Firing more than a few magnum rounds from a two inch revolver might singe your eyebrows off. I did a 50 round qual course with a snubbie firing 125 grain magnum hollow points one time on a dare. It was so much fun I sold the gun a few days later and bought a lighter .38 model. While they’re a bit big as “snubbies” go, Taurus even makes some that will interchangeably fire a .45 Colt cartridge or a 2.5 inch .410 shotgun shell - they call this one The Judge!
Colt quit building snubbies some time back, but Taurus imports a lot of short revolvers, Ruger makes a few models and Charter Arms is back in business with both .38's and their notorious Bulldog chambered for the big .44 Special round (aka - the Son of Sam Special). But, S&W is the one I see the most. And, despite our almost total change over to semi-auto duty pistols, S&W and the other makers are cranking out snubbies like there’s no tomorrow. They make the little revolvers from steel, aluminum, titanium and scandium (whatever that is). They have fixed sights, adjustable sights, night sights and laser sights. You can get ‘em in silver, black and even some really cool iridescent blue hues, with gold trim, on some Taurus titanium models. Whatever color they are, when it comes to the lowly snub nosed revolver, we still love ‘em, buy ‘em and carry ‘em.
One thing you need to consider when staking your life on a snub nosed revolver is their finicky appetite for ammunition. The short barrel means lower muzzle velocities, which often means erratic terminal performance from the bullets. Most of the mid-weight (125 grain to 135 grain) hollow point loads will do OK in the +P versions of .38 Special loadings. Speer ammunition has a 135 grain +P load that is specifically designed for revolvers with two inch barrels and it performs well in all categories of the FBI terminal performance testing protocol.
Not all .38 snubbies are rated for +P ammunition and the super lightweight models are generally not recommended for use with un-jacketed (plain lead) bullets since the projectiles can move forward from the case under severe recoil and prevent the cylinder from turning, making the revolver about as dangerous as a rock of equivalent weight. I really don’t recommend .357 Magnum ammunition in small frame revolvers, you gain very little in terminal performance at a great cost in recoil, muzzle blast and a blinding muzzle flash - shoot .38 +P ammo and call it good.
If you like a bigger bullet, try a Charter Bulldog, the Taurus Judge or one of the medium-frame snubbies from S&W that fire the .44 Special. Winchester, Speer and Federal all make lead or jacketed hollow point loads that should give good performance from a .44 Special snubbie.
One important aspect of snub gun ammunition is to have a reload handy when you’re packing one. Remember the off-duty Utah officer who engaged the active shooter in the Salt Lake City mall? He had a .45 auto and no spare ammo. It worked out for him in the end, but he said he’ll always carry a spare magazine from now on.
For backup use, a reload might be so critical, but if the snubbie is your only weapon, five or six rounds may not be enough. Speed loaders for a revolver are great for reloading, but bulky to carry in a pocket. Bianchi still makes it’s steel reinforced rubber Speed Strips that hold six rounds of .38/.357 ammo in-line and are handy to carry in a pocket. For other calibers ... figure something out for carrying another cylinder of ammo.
In terms of holsters, practical and concealable models abound for a small frame revolver. If you can adapt to the weight of an ankle holster, they can make for practical backup use on duty. These revolvers do not generally lend themselves to the old “tuck it in the waistband” technique for informal carry - they can slide down into your pants when you need ‘em the most. Although, an old timer who trained me carried a S&W .38 tucked in his waistband almost 24 hours a day. He kept the wood grips wrapped with several layers of rubber bands, replacing them as needed, and claimed it was as secure as in a holster. Still, a secure holster is the best option. But, when the night is cool, a jacket pocket is likely to be the most common “holster” and can do well enough, I suppose.
So, assuming you stay proficient by shooting it more than once a year for the off-duty qualification course, the snub nosed revolver is truly the little gun that could. It’s a trusty friend in your pocket off duty and a reliable backup on duty. It ain’t flashy or sexy or cutting edge. But, like any good partner, it’ll always be there to back you up when you need it most.

Dick Fairburn has had more than 26 years of law enforcement experience in both Illinois and Wyoming. He has worked patrol, investigations and administration assignments. Dick has also served as a Criminal Intelligence Analyst, and as the Section Chief of a major academy’s Firearms Training Unit and Critical Incident Training program. He has a B.S. in Law Enforcement Administration from Western Illinois University and was the Valedictorian of his recruit class at the Illinois State Police Academy. He has published hundreds of articles and a book titled, Police Rifles.

http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...un-that-could/

Posted by: Inspector

I still have my old .32 cal Colt 2" that carried me through many years of detective work. Can't carry it now as Sig is issued weapon. I took it out on the range recently and, once I got used to the difference in handling, shot a qualifying round no sweat. It reminded me of the when I had to drive a stick-shift in Ireland, once you're at it a few seconds it all comes back to you.

Posted by: OCKS

Wheelguns were always a fun little weapon to shoot. Tough for on duty carry, with speed loaders and all. Have a charter arms .38 little 5 shot that real easy to conceal

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCKS

Tough for on duty carry, with speed loaders and all.

???????

What's so tough about carrying speed loaders? Are you saying the revolver is obsolete for duty carry?

Posted by: Duff112

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

???????

What's so tough about carrying speed loaders? Are you saying the revolver is obsolete for duty carry?

Relax there Francis...

I think all OCKS was trying to say is 6 shots vs 16 and when you have to reload it's another 6 shots vs 15..

You do the math..

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff112

Relax there Francis...

I think all OCKS was trying to say is 6 shots vs 16 and when you have to reload it's another 6 shots vs 15..

You do the math..

Forget the math! it's the placement! I'll bet that Delta and I could take any five of the latest group of academy-trained-pups with our Model 10's and we'll let them have their hands on their Glocks when we say "draw!"

Posted by: Duff112

MPD-

I'm sure your the next Wild Bill Hickock/Annie Oakley.. I've been doing this job for a long time. I'm a fair shot when it comes to sidearms and there is no way in hell I would choose a wheelgun over a semi-auto with 16 rounds. There's too many variables in a gunfight like distance, winds, clothings a perp is wearing etc...

Semi-autos are called PROGRESS. That's why we don't carry muskets anymore..

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff112

MPD-

I'm sure your the next Wild Bill Hickock/Annie Oakley.. I've been doing this job for a long time. I'm a fair shot when it comes to sidearms and there is no way in hell I would choose a wheelgun over a semi-auto with 16 rounds. There's too many variables in a gunfight like distance, winds, clothings a perp is wearing etc...

Semi-autos are called PROGRESS. That's why we don't carry muskets anymore..

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!
The old sage speaks! Just remember you brought up the term Progress...

There is no way, in any fashion, that ANY semiauto service pistol is CLEARLY superior to a S&W TRR .357 revolver. Eight shots of 125 gr JSP
(a 94% NIJ Researched one-shot load) is only matched by the 185 gr +p JHP .45 acp load.(Fact) Now you have a .357 magnum platform that equals the M1911 platform for actual effectiveness in both actual police shooting data, and the same number of rounds (

on board. It has accessory rails too.

9mm is about 87% effective, and the best .40 S&W round is about 91% according to the NIJ data. I'm sorry, but having 12-16 rounds in a semi auto and being able to reload those in the same time as a speed loader is NOT the entire story. The variables you mentioned are still less of a factor
than PLACEMENT.

But then again, WTH do I know?

Posted by: mikemac64

I have a Colt .38 Detectives Special. It was made in 1939. It looks a little rugged as it sat in a relatives closet for about 20 years. I took it out, cleaned it up a bit and it shoots fine.

I carry it sometimes but not too often.

Posted by: OCKS

To mpd61 You are right that bullet placement is the key and that most gunfights are over in less than six shots. As you know most depts don't train enough and in a high stress situation scores go way down. Anyway most of us have to carry what the dept. issues. 357 is a great round as well as the 41 mag.

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCKS

To mpd61 You are right that bullet placement is the key and that most gunfights are over in less than six shots. 357 is a great round as well as the 41 mag.

OCKS!!!!

My man! I'm glad you set the record straight cuz duff was all over my ass!
.41 Mag is my Favorite!! I have an ANIB unfired Model 58 Nickel. I can't bring myself to fire it!

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

Probably, but while I still love my Model 10, I have to admit its day in the sun for duty use has passed along with other nostalgic items from my rookie season like the Lamb nightstick, the Motorola MX-350 "silver refrigerator" portable radio, the old "Adam-12" tube cruiser radios, and the "square" Crown Victoria cruisers that couldn't get out of their own way.

Progress is like a parade down an alley; you can join in, or be trampled by it.

Posted by: Duff112

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

OCKS!!!!

My man! I'm glad you set the record straight cuz duff was all over my ass!
.41 Mag is my Favorite!! I have an ANIB unfired Model 58 Nickel. I can't bring myself to fire it!

Sorry I'm late getting back to our discussion- I hate when work interferes with Masscops!!

MPD-

Statistics are all well and good but I've got an actual shooting incident involving a guy on my job. Without getting into alot of detail: Perp does a drive off from a gas station in a nearby town, nearly running over attendant. My guy see's suspect vehicle and chase ensues followed by crash of perps vehicle. Suspect gets out points firearm at my guy. Fortunately firearm is empty but obviously PO does not know this. PO has gotten out of his cruiser by this time, see's weapon opens fire while seeking cover behind cruiser. Perp is now moving torward cruiser pointing firearm. All the while PO is putting 40 Cal rounds in this guy and seeing no effect. Now I know what your thinking... Rounds are missing target, 40 Cal is not a 357. etc.. But as it turns out most of the rounds ARE hitting..

Suspect is 6'6" and 400+ pounds

Suspect finally goes down after shot to knee crumples him. Final tally:

Perp shot 16+ times.. and lives! PO reloaded TWICE. PO ok (Thank god)

Now I may be wrong but the maximum number of rounds you'd have in a wheelgun plus speedloaders on the Batman utility belt would be 15. Put in a stressful situation like this do you really want 15 or would 46 do...

An argument always could be made that "Why don't we carry 146 rounds then" Yes that's true but I'm looking at what the standard PO carries.

I like the 46 option much better... plus I didn't mean to come off yesterday as flaming your ass

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff112

MPD-

Statistics are all well and good but I've got an actual shooting incident involving a guy on my job...
All the while PO is putting 40 Cal rounds in this guy and seeing no effect. Now I know what your thinking... Rounds are missing target, 40 Cal is not a 357. etc.. But as it turns out most of the rounds ARE hitting..
Perp shot 16+ times.. and lives! PO reloaded TWICE. PO ok (Thank god)

Now I may be wrong but the maximum number of rounds you'd have in a wheelgun plus speedloaders on the Batman utility belt would be 15.

plus I didn't mean to come off yesterday as flaming your ass

Duff! my man!

The NIJ(FBI) statistics are from actual police shootings. In fact they are data regarding one-shot-stop by caliber and actual bullet type. I believe the data started in the 60's and is ongoing.

The TRR revolver with just two speedloaders is twenty-four
(24) shots, with one more speedloader you get 32

Thanks for the discussion bro!

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

Thanks for the discussion bro!

You know I love revolvers, but the concept of a high-capacity revolver for law enforcement is like a PD buying replicas of the 1969 Dodge Polara.....it was great in its time also.

I still support and would encourage revolvers for security, armored transport, and other positions where firearms training is minimal and opportunities for practice scarce.

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

You know I love revolvers, but the concept of a high-capacity revolver for law enforcement is like a PD buying replicas of the 1969 Dodge Polara.....it was great in its time also.

.

So was a Harley Sportster!

Posted by: Wolfman

In a patrol situation you're crazy not to have a volume of firepower over a limited number of more potent rounds. I'm sure most here would feel strange going on errands in a pair of shorts with a M&P and 2 extra mags hanging off your belt, or rolling up on a B&E call with a 2" 5-shot snubby and a speed strip in your pocket.

Not to belabor an obvious point but the situations you find yourself in when patrolling are different than what you'll find yourself in when going to the lamp store.
Different tools for different jobs.

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

I'm sure your the next Wild Bill Hickock/Annie Oakley.. I've been doing this job for a long time. I'm a fair shot when it comes to sidearms and there is no way in hell I would choose a wheelgun over a semi-auto with 16 rounds. There's too many variables in a gunfight like distance, winds, clothings a perp is wearing etc...

Semi-autos are called PROGRESS. That's why we don't carry muskets anymore..

As Wolf said, no one is arguing that a revolver is superior for duty purposes, just that the time of the revolver is not over, especially for off-duty or backup gun purposes. A revolver can be fired inside a pocket, if necessary, and at extreme close quarters you could jam a revolver in a perp's chest and fire, a trick with a semi auto that would probably reward you with with a slide out of battery. If the situation doesn't require enormous amounts of firepower and good concealability in a simple package, I don't think you can't beat a small-framed revolver. I also would consider a full-sized revolver, with its mechanical simplicity and ease of use, practical for many security guard-type jobs.

BTW, if you really wanted to be truly prepared for all probabilities in a gunfight, you should bring a rifle...pistol rounds are child's play in comparison to rifle rounds.

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfman

In a patrol situation you're crazy not to have a volume of firepower over a limited number of more potent rounds.

Different tools for different jobs.

All true and undisputable...

In a patrol situation (and they're ALL different) if after 24-42 rounds are gone, I'll hopefully be thinking of, and able to grab, the M-4. I have access to and train to transition back and forth between the handgun and rifle. Of course we don't walk up to most calls carrying the M-4 either. But I know how to evade, retreat, take cover etc if the opportunity presents itself. Then again, I can't guarantee I won't piss myself and slip in the puddle either!

Posted by: Inspector71

Another thing to consider is that a revolver will never suffer a FTF casualty. Sure hope you semi-heroes always carry a second mag in an accessible place just in case you get into a "jam"

Tap-rack-bang (you hope)

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inspector71

Another thing to consider is that a revolver will never suffer a FTF casualty. Sure hope you semi-heroes always carry a second mag in an accessible place just in case you get into a "jam"

Tap-rack-bang (you hope)

Never say never....I've seen more than one person whose idea of cleaning their revolver was to douse it with WD-40 have a failure to fire when the internal lockwork got hopelessly gummed-up and the cylinder wouldn't rotate.

Posted by: Wolfman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

True. You still can't cure stupid.

Posted by: justanotherparatrooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfman

True. You still can't cure stupid.

...and its a epidemic!

Posted by: 7costanza

i thought ever officer in a dept had to carry the same weapons and ammo..incase of a firefight they can use each others weapons and ammo if need be...

Posted by: justanotherparatrooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7costanza

i thought ever officer in a dept had to carry the same weapons and ammo..incase of a firefight they can use each others weapons and ammo if need be...

Nope, depts vary on policy. Its easier to train a large organization if the weapons are standardized but alot of smaller depts let the officer carry what suits them best 9mm being the minumum round most places.

Posted by: 5-0

I am seriously considering a revolver for CC after reading all of these posts... thoughts on a first purchase?

Posted by: Tuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5-0

I am seriously considering a revolver for CC after reading all of these posts... thoughts on a first purchase?

Model 60 S&W and get some after market grips

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5-0

I am seriously considering a revolver for CC after reading all of these posts... thoughts on a first purchase?

I'd opt for 3" barrel as it gives a bit more velocity and control for no less concealability.

Ruger SP101, S&W 36, 60, 37, for starters. I actually carry a 3" Smith 13 (k-frame) and love it! if weight is not a major factor look for 66 or 686 as a 2.5" or 3" gun.

If Smith is smart they'll soon chamber a 3" J-frame scandium in .327 Federal.

Posted by: Slimer

My favorite wheelgun back in the day for off duty and as a back up weapon was a Smith & Wesson Model 19 2.5 inch barrel blued 357 Magnum. I had the weapon worked on with a lighter trigger pull, highly polished, rose wood grips and gold inlay placed in all the wording. This was a sweet weapon too bad I sold it.

Posted by: mpd61

Slimer! you sold that gun...what a dumbass!

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