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Main Page 1st class completes sheriffs academy
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Posted by: MCOA41

1st class completes sheriffs academy
Sunday, April 10, 2005
By MICHAEL McAULIFFE
mmcauliffe@repub.com
SPRINGFIELD - A first of its kind sheriffs academy graduated its initial class yesterday.

The Western Massachusetts Regional Reserve Intermittent Police Academy had a class of 27 men and one woman from the sheriff's departments of Hampden, Hampshire, Franklin and Berkshire counties that trained for tasks ranging from crowd control to drug task force work.

"I just want to tell you class, you're No. 1. Nobody can take that away from you," said Hampshire County Sheriff Frederick B. Macdonald.

Hampden County Sheriff Michael J. Ashe Jr. also addressed the graduates, who had friends and family looking on during the ceremony at the Western Massachusetts Correctional Alcohol Center.

"This is a great moment," Ashe said.

Nicholas Cocchi, assistant deputy superintendent of training for the Hampden County Sheriff's Department, said the 21-week academy provided instruction in areas that "you don't get when you work behind the fences of a correctional environment."

Cocchi oversaw operation of the academy and Alfred Ingham, a correctional officer with the Hampden County Sheriff's Department, was program manager.

Jody P. Naglack of Palmer was the class president.

"I feel great," the 26-year-old Naglack said after the ceremony. "I'm proud of my class. I'm proud of my accomplishments, my personal accomplishments."

Lt. Katherine M. Sonsini of the Berkshire County Sheriff's Department was the only woman in the class. She said she simply took advantage of an opportunity provided by her sheriff, Carmen C. Massimiano Jr.

"I think it just betters you as an individual," Sonsini said.

The breakdown of the class members, by department, were: Hampden County Sheriff's Department, 9; Hampshire County Sheriff's Department, 1; Franklin County Sheriff's Department, 6; and Berkshire County Sheriff's Department, 12.

Among those who attended the graduation was Chicopee Mayor Richard R. Goyette.

Posted by: Zuke

All that hoopla for graduating the Reserve Academy? What happens if the graduate the full time academy..... A Parade?.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCOA41";p=&quot

the 21-week academy provided instruction in areas that "you don't get when you work behind the fences of a correctional environment."

Then why bother?

Posted by: Wolfman

Quote:

the 21-week academy provided instruction in areas that "you don't get when you work behind the fences of a correctional environment."

Maybe cops should get a specialized 21-week course in investment banking or industrial hydraulics. Those are areas that you don't get to experience when you're out on the road.

The grass is always greener, isn't it?

Posted by: MSP75

Police don't get the money they NEED for training.
Sheriff Dept gets money for training they DON'T NEED.
I bet the hard working Sheriff Dept employees behind the fence would like to see that money come their way.

Posted by: USMCTrooper

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but didnt the MCJTC or whatever its called now deny sheriffs from attending their academies? If that is true, then what creditable entity has certified this home grown program? It says "R/I" but who taught it, what accreditation carries with it and who certifies the curriculum under what state guidlines? Lastly, WHY even has a class like this?

Posted by: MCOA41

DS's can go through the R/I academy as in some parts of the state they do road jobs.

SO' were kicked ot or stopped from having the CO academy at the police academies. My uncle taught the last class at the Agawam facility.

As to why. What a better way for the politician (Sheriff) to pay back his guys who have helped to get him elected/re-elected. lol OK on this one I do not know why.

Yes the money would be better spent on the CO's behind the wall.

Posted by: MCOA41

Correct me if I am wrong but COnnecitcut got rid of their Sherrif's. If we can get rid of the counties why not the Sheriff's. LEt the state DOC take over the jails. Heck the state pays the budget anyway.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCOA41";p=&quot

Correct me if I am wrong but COnnecitcut got rid of their Sherrif's. If we can get rid of the counties why not the Sheriff's. LEt the state DOC take over the jails. Heck the state pays the budget anyway.

You are not wrong. The CT Dept of Corrections run the County Jails, like New Haven CC, Hartford CC and Bridgeport CC. The Sheriffs were moved into Courtroom security for a while, but after some high profile incidents, they were scrapped and the "Court Marshals" took over.

Posted by: Mortal knight

If we get rid of the Sheriffs, who else wil enforce Ch85.20?
85.20= speeding on a county bridge;$2.00 fine.

On a side note, how did Lt. Sonsini make Lt without this valuable training to begin with.

Disclaimer

Not a knock on the LT just the academy

)

Posted by: MCOA41

I got in Law Enforcement via the Sherrifs's Dept. I worked as a Special Deputy. Basicaly like the guys that are in the association but I was attached to a dive team that Trooper Blake Gilmore helped set up and train.

I never knew there were county bridges. I have been all over the state and the only thing with the name county in it (besides the jails and SO offices) that I have seen is "County Road: that runs along the Holyoke, Southampton.

LOL

Just think of all the money the county could get for enforcing this law. $$$$.

LMAO

Posted by: MSP75

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCOA41";p=&quot

The Sheriff is a constitutional office. An amendment would be needed.

Posted by: MCOA41

So amend away. Connecticut did.

Posted by: Macop

Whine, whine, whine, quit ya bitchen.

Posted by: Wolfman

Heard somewhere that the Sheriffs are looking to "supplement" on the cape during the summer months - local patrols and whatnot - and some of the local chiefs are all for it since they won't have to hire as many part timers.

Posted by: Southside

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfman";p=&quot

Heard somewhere that the Sheriffs are looking to "supplement" on the cape during the summer months - local patrols and whatnot - and some of the local chiefs are all for it since they won't have to hire as many part timers.

Bullshate....name the source oh wise one! LOL. Can you imagine the spike in population from tourism being handled by prison guards. I think its a good idea if they stick to crossing guard duties and maybe a post with a little more enforcement....writing parking tickets.

Posted by: Wolfman

Hits home to us all one way or another.

Posted by: 4424

Relax people, all this Police vs. Sheriff's crap is getting old. The number one priority is PUBLIC SAFETY!!! In my neck of the woods we have a great relationship with most Police Departments. If we pick up a WMS warrant the recall fee goes back to the town the defendant was arrested in, if we write a Ch. 90 V the proceeds go to the town the V was written in. Why do most posters on this board turn it into a us against them thing. We dont want your jobs, we do have a duty to ensure public safety. If something happens and we dont react accordingly it turns into a LIABILITY issue. Do you really think that when a police officer has to respond to a domestic alone because his fellow police officers are tied up on other calls, and is rolling around fighting a individual he really cares what color the uniform is that shows up to help. I dont think so!!!

Posted by: Wolfman

I've never seen Franklin County SO make a traffic stop.

Quote:

Relax people, all this Police vs. Sheriff's crap is getting old. The number one priority is PUBLIC SAFETY!!!

What's getting old is this "the more the merrier" crap. The number one priority is taking care of yourself and your family. It's great when you can find a job that you enjoy, but the bottom line is that the reason you work is to support your clan. No one works for free. Public safety is a beneficial byproduct of those who choose to provide for their families by performing police work.

Read the extensive threads concerning civil service, MSP exams, finding departments to work on, etc. There are many people out there who are busting their balls day in and day out because they want to be cops and for some their hard work and perserverance pays off and they EARN their badge and coveted job. Others get bypassed but they don't quit, they keep working at it, taking exams and filling in applications, some moving hundreds of miles just so they can become a police officer and do this job.

Then there are those whose cousin's brother's uncle got someone a deal on a used car, they kicked $500 towards a fundraiser, and like farkin' magic they go to some "Sheriff's Academy" and consider themselves cops. That is an insult and slap in the face to everyone who has been doing the right thing for a long time to get their jobs. It's a flight of fancy and an end run, plain and simple.

We are in Massachusetts, not South Carolina. Our Sheriff is a jailer. There is more than enough need in the correctional system for funds and manpower without diverting it towards redundant and unsolicited patrol functions. Are CO's being paid enough? Are their working conditions satisfactory? Are the buildings and infrastructure of the prisons on par with the cutting edge of technology?

Are the Sheriffs traveling to the police departments and bringing prisoners to the house or are the police officers transporting prisoners while Sheriffs write tickets and make warrant arrests? What's wrong with this picture?

Quote:

Do you really think that when a police officer has to respond to a domestic alone because his fellow police officers are tied up on other calls, and is rolling around fighting a individual he really cares what color the uniform is that shows up to help.

Yeah, I'd be pissed off if I was rolling around with some reprobate while my backup was tied up on a prisoner transport or a Q5 watch.

Posted by: 4424

Wolfman, If a tree falls in the woods and your not there does it make any noise. Yes Franklin County does write V's, not many but if somebody's stupid enough to violate a law in my presence they will get a V. There is a number of Deputies that can and will write V's. All these Deputies have worked on P.D.'s before moving onto the sheriff's department.

You dont have to be a brain surgeon to figure out we all work for a paycheck to support ourselves/family. No need for me to read the threads concerning civil service,MSP,etc., been there done that. Also just so you know I have never made any type of donation to campaign/fundraiser/political parties. I got my job the good old fashion way. I applied for it and my previous police experiance helped me get it. You know like you said I busted my balls day in and day out and earned my badge and "coveted job".

The deputies in my department that do Ch.90 and arrest warrants are not transport we have people that do that they are called the: TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT. We only transport the people we arrest.

Wolfman, perhaps you should lean the structure of the department before you start knocking them, my department consists of many people doing many different jobs. Why dont you surf some sheriff department websites to see what each one does (were not all structured the same).

And just to let you know, even after what you have said in your post, I'd still back you up even if you were pissed off and rolling around with some "reprobate" while your back up was transporting or on a Q5 watch. Just call well be there!!!

Posted by: jo

Wolfman. Every Franklin County Deputy that works the road that I can think of, is or has worked as a police officer. This means they have gone through the training prior to ever even taking a job with the sheriff. The sheriff himself is a retired LT with MSP and mandates that all his deputies are trained and certs are current. If you want to see a car stop and a citation written, see if you can do a ride along. Most police officers that I know usually ask if the sheriff will be hiring soon as the jurisdiction, money and state benifits far out way what the local pd can provide. Have fun tearing this apart I get direct deposit in the am and can afford to go away for the weekend so I probably will not be reading any sheriff bashing til monday.

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

Quote:

Originally Posted by jo";p=&quot

Most police officers that I know usually ask if the sheriff will be hiring soon as the jurisdiction, money and state benifits far out way what the local pd can provide.

I'm sure some local Police Officer's would jump to work for a Sheriff's Office if they get more into law enforcement, it has the potential of being a great job.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by jo";p=&quot

Most police officers that I know usually ask if the sheriff will be hiring soon as the jurisdiction, money and state benifits far out way what the local pd can provide.

I'm sure some local Police Officer's would jump to work for a Sheriff's Office if they get more into law enforcement, it has the potential of being a great job.

Not in Mass. I know you are living with the delusion that Sheriff's Offices are the same as they are in Florida, but they are not. In Mass, it is the other way around. Deputies leave for F/T PD's. Any Franklin County Sheriff's Deputy that left a PD for FCSD iwas either: NOT a F/T Cop, worked for a tiny department or retired and is on their 2nd career. There is no way any PO left their F/T, decent sized PD job to be a Sheriff's Deputy.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by jo";p=&quot

Wolfman. Every Franklin County Deputy that works the road that I can think of, is or has worked as a police officer. This means they have gone through the training prior to ever even taking a job with the sheriff. The sheriff himself is a retired LT with MSP and mandates that all his deputies are trained and certs are current. If you want to see a car stop and a citation written, see if you can do a ride along. Most police officers that I know usually ask if the sheriff will be hiring soon as the jurisdiction, money and state benifits far out way what the local pd can provide. Have fun tearing this apart I get direct deposit in the am and can afford to go away for the weekend so I probably will not be reading any sheriff bashing til monday.

Good lord, a ride along with a Sheriff's Deputy. What the h*ll PD are you referring to that guys are dying to get out and be a Deputy? Every F/T PO I know thinks that the Sheriff's Deputies are tools. And I know the guys out in the local FC PD's. NONE of them are dying to get on the SD.

Posted by: popo

Hey 4424 SHeriff Fool, if you want to be a cop, get a job as one and stop pretending. Hey did I forget to say that I write up sheriffs everyday.

Posted by: jo

POPO

That same sheriff you "write up" in your one small town may just run into you with his cite book in the other twenty five towns that he has jurisdiction in. I cannot speak for any other county but franklin does have chapter 90 books. Use your head and hunt for contraband, warrants, and oui, not trouble. That same deputy also may be a retired or part time officer with lots of friends that work in lots of towns with lots of cite books.

Posted by: Wolfman

Don't cross the thin brown line...

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbelichick";p=&quot

Not in Mass. I know you are living with the delusion that Sheriff's Offices are the same as they are in Florida, but they are not.

I'm not living with any delusions and I didn't say nor imply Mass Sheriff's are the same as Florida Sheriff's, but there are numerous small police agencies in Mass and IF (and thats a big IF) a Sheriff's Office did get into law enforcement, then you would see F/T cops applying. An agency that offers the greatest amount of diversity will attract applicants regardless of the shape of the badge. If a Mass Sheriff's Office had a warrant, vice, gang and investigation unit, it would draw from agencies which only offer 32 years of uniform patrol, that only stands to reason. I'm not arguing for or against sheriff's, only stating "what if's".

Posted by: 4424

POPO, Read my previous posts I was with a P.D. I went to the SO. Better pay, state benefits, countywide juristiction. Sounds to me like you have a problem with sheriff's departments in general. As Jo mentioned, come for a ride along in my county and see how P.D.'s and S.O.'s play nice together and respect the different aspects of each others jobs. Relax, there's enough shi*bags out there for everyone.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4424";p=&quot

POPO, Read my previous posts I was with a P.D. I went to the SO. Better pay, state benefits, countywide juristiction. Sounds to me like you have a problem with sheriff's departments in general. As Jo mentioned, come for a ride along in my county and see how P.D.'s and S.O.'s play nice together and respect the different aspects of each others jobs. Relax, there's enough shi*bags out there for everyone.

Something strange is going on here. I worked for years in Franklin County and I never saw a Sheriff on patrol. I also never talked to a single Local who would ever jump ship. There are really only 2 large departments in Franklin County, Montague and Greenfield. Which one did you work for?

Posted by: 105

Okay, A few questions for the Wolfman: Is the issue(s) you have with the Deputy Sheriffs (qualification related and political) or is there more? If the complaint you have is that some are not paying dues, not trained and politically getting slots that they are not qualified to perform; good reason to complain. However, unqualified individuals holding a badge are not just confined to one agency!
If, on the other hand, you have a problem with retired and current police officers working as Deputy Sheriffs then what is the real issue? Some of these people undoubtedly have many years of training and full-time academy training via M.C.J.T.C. Maybe even more time and experience on than you! Is the issue just that they are "different"? Hmmm...kinda hear a banjo in the background.
There were not too many complaints when Sheriff's deputize various local officers to elevate jurisdictional issues while working in 94C task force(s). Again, some are or were full time cops who made a choice so what is the problem? I believe one of the Sheriff's K-9 officers out of Hampden County had one of the "live finds" at the World Trade Center shortly after 911 and was requested there by a friend in the NYPD! Guess he did more than parking tickets!
Final thought for now, if some Sheriffs' are attempting to hire well qualified cops then I am not sure what the problem is. Not enough crime or maybe too much backup. If it is a high school type turf war than it is unrealistic and makes some look foolish.
The Mass Statutes as well as a host of Massachusetts SJC & App. Ct. case law rulings are crystal clear as to Dep. Sheriff powers and duties; some agencies have just been a bit lax in exercising this legal power and training, for now.

Posted by: 4424

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbelichick";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4424";p=&quot

bbelichick, (are the two b's a stuttering problem?) How do you interpet things? I never said that the S.O. patrols, we dont patrol. As I stated (if you would take the necessary time for you bbrain to interpet what is actually posted after reading it), is that we can and will write V's if a offense occurs in our presence and it warrants a V. Obviously you dont talk to many locals because if you did you would understand why they would like to work for the S.O.. As to which department I have worked on, does it really matter? And what makes you think that it was any of the ones you noted? Maybe could have been both of them or one/or more of the many others in my county, or maybe they were not even in my county, could have also been another state. Like I said does it really matter? RRemember RRead VVery CCarefully BBelichick.

Posted by: bbelichick

Apparently the genius Sheriff's Deputy has never heard of Bill Belichick, thus "BBelichick." Check the Avatar if you are confused.

You are being evasive. You either NEVER worked for a PD or it was a part time PD. Those are the only decent sized departments in the County. How big was the PD you worked for? And don't give me the "out of State" BS.

Also, if you don't patrol, what do you do? That would make you a Jail Guard, and NO PO is leaving a F/T Police job to be a Guard. I have talked to PLENTY of F/T Cops in Franklin COunty. Just like everywhere else in Mass, they think the SO's are a joke (the Deputies, not the C/O's)

And yes, If I stop an "LED" Deputy, it's a gig.

Posted by: 4424

bbelichick, Obviously you don't have a sense of humor, lighten up. Going through life without a sense of humor makes one's life miserable. Come on smile the Pats are on top!! Is that a smile???

Posted by: bbelichick

Patriots=Good

Sheriff's Deputies= Bad

Now I can smile.

Posted by: 4424

Got ya to smile!

Posted by: 4424

Your welcome, glad I could be there for you.

Posted by: popo

Quote:

POPO

That same sheriff you "write up" in your one small town may just run into you with his cite book in the other twenty five towns that he has jurisdiction in. I cannot speak for any other county but franklin does have chapter 90 books. Use your head and hunt for contraband, warrants, and oui, not trouble. That same deputy also may be a retired or part time officer with lots of friends that work in lots of towns with lots of cite books.

I work in a large city department and sheriffs are all game.

Posted by: popo

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbelichick";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4424";p=&quot

Hey BBELICHICK, he must be the guy that bought his own motorcycle with blue lights and patrols Franklin County on his time. Give me a break, patrols will never happen in MASS, stick to the jails and we'll all be happy. Otherwise, get off your ass and get on a PD. You said you jumped ship, from what , an auxiliary position to the SO?

Posted by: Wolfman

Quote:

Originally Posted by 105";p=&quot

Okay, A few questions for the Wolfman (etc. etc. etc, blah blah blah, ad infinitum.)

I think my opinons on this matter were made perfectly clear.

Quote:

I believe one of the Sheriff's K-9 officers out of Hampden County had one of the "live finds" at the World Trade Center shortly after 911 and was requested there by a friend in the NYPD! Guess he did more than parking tickets!

Apples and oranges. Should there be another situation such as the one you describe above, I would expect every red-blooded American to pitch in as they are able. On a daily patrol basis however, this statement is irrelevant. Hundreds of ham radio operators relayed messages in and out of NYC as well, I don't see you saying they should be out pulling over drunks.

Posted by: MSP75

One of the major problems is money. There seems to be an unlimited amount of money in the Commonwealth to attempt to create new police agencies out of other jobs (Sheriff Office, MDC/DCR Park rangers, etc), but not enough money to fund the existing law enforcement agencies. When PO's have no fear of being laid-off and MSP is properly funded for its operations, then maybe, a big maybe, the new kids could come and play.
It also doesn't help that politicians are just helping their buds out by letting them have their very own toy soldiers (the Sheriff, MDC Commish).

Posted by: MC1010

Quote:

Originally Posted by 105";p=&quot

Hate to say it, but he is wanna be. He pays the Sheriff to wear his badge and works for free. He actually helped pay for the cruisers for the first K-9 units in Sfld. PD. so they would let him go play K-9 cop with them!!! He is a rich kid that cant get on any full time Departments. He works for the LED part of Hamden County. I know the K-9 guys at the jail, they are good guys and they dont work the streets or any other places, they just work behind the walls. So that put a hole in your theory. And no, I dont know this from hearing it from a friends sisters brothers cousin, I know this from fact because I use to work there. Sorry!!!! :P

Posted by: Wolfman

Posted by: 105

So you still are not answering the question. What is your issue if a fully trained, current or ex police officer is working as a deputy sheriff? MSP75 gives some possible issues; you list none with any validity other than those who have political connections to gain employment. And that never takes place on local departments..lol

Posted by: Wolfman

I'll simplify things.

Sheriffs = corrections
Police = law enforcement
Deputy Sheriffs = no statewide set rules or regulations concerning appointment, qualifications, training, indemnification, retention, physical fitness, incident chain of command, response, support, communications, budgeting, scope of authority or responsibility. Serves at the whim of one person.

Current police officers work for police departments. Working as a police officer for a town as well as a deputy is in my opinion a conflict of interest that should not be tolerated. If one of my local officers is dissatisfied staying within the boundaries of my town, he should get him/herself into the next MSP class and tender his resignation. Pick a hat and wear it.

The only reason an ex-police officer should be a deputy is to work the occasional parade detail, not to relive the glory days of kicking in doors and pulling over drunks. If you want to still be a cop, don't retire. If you work for a department and quit, then try to regain your sense of self-importance by becoming a deputy, then you probably have some personal issues to work out. Find another police department to work in or find another career field. Satisfy your thirst for authority and keep the public safe by kicking loiterers out of the mall food court.

"Fully Trained"? Training is not just a one-time thing, it must stay current and funding in-service enforcement training for those who should be working inside the walls represents an unecessary expense and waste of taxpayer funds which should be directed towards corrections or reallocated to the municipalities who need it more.

The grass is always greener, isn't it?

Posted by: 105

Well, I have to thank you for your enlightening simplification of your rhetoric, even though not totally accurate. It would seem that you have a problem with generalizations.

The items that you claim have no regulatory process are not even close, at least for ALL sheriff's departments. You have no way of knowing what type of regulations cover each and all of the departments. Obviously training is a continuous and evolving process but you can't possibly know what areas are covered nor how up to date the training is.

I have seen P.D.s, even some of larger size, that provide little or no
in-service beyond the so called 40 hour rule. Some that don't even do that! Again $$. Physical standards (PAT's)are not in place for each and every police department beyond academy entrance standards, not even close. Face it, some departments, if you can walk and drive a car, it's all good. As far as serving at the "whim of one person", that is a common situation. Not all departments are civil service or under the umbrella protection of a union. The "just cause" standard or "cause you are a bone head" will not always sustain a termination procding. If a chief or even a supervisor has it out for an officer, they too may be at the "whim" of one.

If certain sheriffs are seeking to improve or retain competent officers and provide current up-to-date training, then it is again an innaccurate generalization to assume that any given deputy sheriff's curriculum vitae is not up to par.

I have friends in several local departments as well as MSP. The ones I know don't have this "us against them" problem with generalizations. There are clear money issues, I fully agree. The individual is what makes the difference. There are bone heads and exceptional officers in all departments. The majority are professionals!

Hope not too much bla-bla-bla for you but you seem to like to spend a lot of time on this site.

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

Quote:

Originally Posted by 105";p=&quot

There are bone heads and exceptional officers in all departments. The majority are professionals!

This is true everywhere - local, county, state and federal. Test scores and academys, unfortunately, have been unable to consistantly locate the best of the best.

Posted by: Eagle Keeper F-15A

God Bless the Sheriffs-but how about the 2 useless donkeys we got to fill a couple of roadjobs for us last week? One had no magazines in the mag holder, and the other was as old as dirt. Both were plenty of help-standing on the sidewalk while my brother was working his ASS off in the roadway....USELESS!!!!

Posted by: Wolfman

Still doesn't address the fact that Sheriffs function is corrections, not enforcement.

So you've seen PD's with what you describe as little or no in-service. You point to the reasoning being not enough money. Therefore, if the function of the SD is corrections and they have funding for inservice, the function of a PD is enforcement and they have no money for inservice, doesn't it stand to reason that the overall funding is misallocated? Wouldn't it make more sense to have the extra funding go to the PD so they can do their job?

The whim of one person is a dangerous road to follow. In a regular PD, there is a hierarchy of responsibility which is subject to checks and balances. There is civilian government which has oversight of the police department. The chief is accountable to the people in the town as well as their elected officials. Look at what's happening out east, the Sheriff is deciding that he's just going to stroll into this town or that and clean things up. He doesn't have to answer to the citizens of the town or their elected officials. That's not enforcement, that's dictatorial invasion.

I have one or two friends in local departments and MSP as well, and none of them think the SD has any business whatsoever being out on patrol. Please, name me one or two Troopers who don't have a problem with you being out on patrol.

There are bone heads in every department, etc...

my own observations of most of the "enforcement" deputies I've crossed paths with are as follows: retirees who like to put on a uniform and walk in a parade, super-wannabees who are a PT or Aux and carry a portable radio everywhere they go and have blue lights in their personal vehicle, and the few who just defy all description.

Posted by: 105

Sir Wolf, enlightening as usual but a few more points to add. The oh so great hierarchy you refer to is not without problems. In towns that have a c. 97 chief (weak chief statute) as you probably are aware of, and even some on c. 97A, the microscopic, self appointed police commissions and review boards, can turn a decent department into one that has selective enforcement. You know, when an officer gigs or grabs a councilmen's son for OUI and the case is flushed. A lot of times the accountability factor becomes out of control. All should be accountable but to whom is at issue.

Sheriffs, last I checked, are elected and thus very accountable. If the citizens of the county that they are accountable to see fit, vote them out, or not.

As far as checks and balances, I believe the Franklin County Sheriff is a retired MSP Lieutenant and has a retired MSP Major that works with him. I would guess there are some checks and balances there. The department out east you are talking about also has well trained law enforcement personnel working there, and ones even more current than those fine photos you scanned. (I have a good collection of those too)

I think MSP has gone into towns to help clean up some problems at times and they are accountable to whom? Oh yes, the Colonel. Yes they work with the towns but maybe the sheriff in the east county is trying.

Remember, not all towns have five cars rolling to all calls. A lot of the west county towns have smaller agencies that take calls alone! And there is quite a differnece between what you call patrol and just reacting to things encountered by deputy sheriffs. If a Dep. S/O that knows what s/he is doing witnesses a crime via 90s24, 209A, whatever, than you think they should call a local cop and dump it on them? Sheriff statutes are clear and again the SJC/App Ct. and local police have no problem using 37s13 for certain applicable mutual aid situations. It is a good one to be aware of. So I guess you would argue that the power of the sheriffs' statute is good for local police but not the department it was legislated for!

I personally think if a qualified deputy sheriff, and I stress Qualified, is out doing their job, and while they are out serving warrants, papers, triad or task forces, etc, if they can be of help and ask, no harm done. They would be there anyway and that situation would not take any money away from the local P.D.s ! If not needed then they can continue on. I personally only assist when requested and act on what I come across, far different than total active primary patrol and taking 911 calls.

In the future, far far away, maybe some sheriffs will go to primary. If so I truly hope it is not at the expense of any local funds and that if it becomes attractive to current or ex police, they be given first chance to apply, if they so desire.

Chow for now, I am sure we will talk again

Posted by: Wolfman

Sorry, I must have missed the names of the Troopers who support your wet dream of Sheriff's patrols in your response. You can PM me their names if you don't wish to post them publicly, I know people who can confirm their opinions.

I perused the FCSO website.
"Under guidelines adopted by the Massachusetts sheriffs, individual counties cannot offer basic recruit training in corrections or law enforcement until they comply with MSAETC standardized curriculum developed for training sheriff's office staff. The program currently runs for eight weeks and provides training in areas that are pertinent, practical and essential for effectively preparing the recruits to fulfill their responsibilities as professionals at the Franklin County Sheriff's Office."
Sheriffs adopting their own guidelines. No hint of MCJTC there. Why is that? Amazing what you can achieve in an 8-week Academy! It's not residential, is it? 8 weeks of living hell and ready to take on the bad guys. The cirriculum must be extremely intense, to accomplish in 8 weeks what it takes agencies like MSP 6 months to do.

Should a SD observe a crime, yes, he/she should call a police officer to investigate it. Otherwise, you want to be a cop, be a cop. You awant to be corrections, be a Sheriff. You can parade all the banter you like, this man's view will not be swayed. Try it on the Hodgson threads, I'm sure your noble perspectives will be warmly received there.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

I personally think if a qualified deputy sheriff, and I stress Qualified, is out doing their job, and while they are out serving warrants, papers, triad or task forces, etc, if they can be of help and ask, no harm done.

There is no such thing. Unless, of course, you are referring to being qualified to work as a Corrections Officer.

Posted by: Macop

You guys are still crying about this, jesus there is nothing you can do about it.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop";p=&quot

You guys are still crying about this, jesus there is nothing you can do about it.

Not true. There are bills pending to limit Sheriffs authority to their own facilities. Of course, they will fight it because for the most part they are wannabe Cops, and are not satisfied doing the jobs they were elected to do.

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