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Main Page Warning! When it comes to traffic tickets, it matters where you get stopped
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: kwflatbed

(Boston Globe Photo / Tom Herde)

By Matt Carroll and Manny Veiga

Globe Staff And Globe Correspondent / February 24, 2008

It's a typical roadside scene: A motorist cruising over the speed limit gets pulled over by a local police officer, who begins to write a ticket.
What happens next depends on which town you happen to be in when you are pulled over.
A Globe survey of 2007 traffic ticket data from 18 area towns found that some police departments are much more likely to give a driver a break than others.
In Duxbury, Quincy, and Mattapoisett, officers gave drivers written warnings - rather than a full citation - at least three-quarters of the time.
The warnings carry no fine and are essentially a slap on the wrist.
But drivers beware in Marshfield, Hull, and Milton. In those towns, motorists got hit with civil citations 80 percent or more of the time. The citations can carry hefty fines and can lead to auto insurance increases.
Police officials, told of the findings, expressed surprise at the differences between communities and were hard-pressed to explain them. They did offer some theories: Police cultures might vary, from strict enforcement to a more lenient approach, or communities with a large number of commuters might take a stricter line. Or maybe younger officers are more aggressive in some communities, they suggested.
Others wondered if the data might be flawed because some communities track verbal warnings, while others do not. (Verbal warnings were not counted in the data.)
All interviewed agreed that ticketing - whether to give a warning or a citation - is up to the individual officer's discretion, and that officers do not have citation quotas. Police officials also insisted that towns don't use traffic tickets as a revenue tool - a claim that was greeted with skepticism by some drivers.
Chiefs said ticket revenue, which amounts to half the fine, goes to a community's general fund, not their departmental budget.
In Duxbury, where officers gave the most warnings and fewest citations, Chief Mark DeLuca said: "The primary purpose of the stop is education. If the officer is convinced that the person they pulled over has gotten the picture, then they've done their job. The idea is to make sure the person doesn't speed again."
In Marshfield the situation was just the opposite: Officers tended to give many more citations than warnings. Drivers got away with just a warning in only 14.7 percent of the traffic stops, the lowest of the towns surveyed.
William P. Sullivan, chief in Marshfield, said the results sound "draconian," but the data might be incomplete.
"Probably many stops end up in verbal warnings," which are not reflected in the department's numbers, he said. If those were taken into account, the numbers might not appear so harsh.
Getting a ticket can often be infuriating. To appeal means taking a day off from work to plead one's case in court.
The traffic ticket hearing room in Quincy District Court was standing-room-only recently with frustrated motorists arguing their cases before a clerk magistrate.

Globe Graphic Warnings issued in area communities

In Quincy District Court, Kathy Madden of Weymouth appealed and beat a $100 ticket charging failure to stop at a stop sign.
A convincing defense

Outside the room, Kathy Madden of Weymouth was jubilant after beating a $100 ticket for failing to stop at a stop sign in Weymouth. She argued that since she couldn't see the hidden officer who ticketed her, there was no way the officer could see her or her alleged traffic violation. She brought along pictures of the intersection to help prove her point.
"I drive fairly safely, anyways," she said.
"Obviously, now I'll be more careful at stop signs."
Wayne Power of Hyde Park, a 54-year-old musician, was set to plead his case on a $160 ticket in Weymouth for speeding - traveling 40 mph in a 30 mph zone - among other things. He fumed about the "revenue-raising ticket."
And, he said, he was obeying the speed limit. "If I drive like a cowboy, my load will shift," said Power, whose vehicle was laden with equipment.
Chiefs said they rarely get involved with how officers ticket.
"I always leave it up to the officers on the street," said Quincy Chief Robert F. Crowley.
Officers are as aware as anyone else that a civil citation takes a bite out of a driver's wallet, he said, reviewing numbers which showed his officers to be more lenient.
"I don't think they want to burden the public with additional expenses," he said.
He wondered if the numbers varied because officers in the city had other pressing priorities, such as domestic disputes, robberies, and burglaries.
Lieutenant Irving Wallace in Wareham, where warnings made up 28.3 percent of tickets, said, "The officer . . . makes a stop and makes a decision on how to handle it.
"Enforcement is supposed to be an educational tool," he added, "and giving a citation isn't always the best educational tool.
Sometimes a written or verbal warning is a better method."
If the chatter at Arthur and Pat's restaurant in Marshfield one recent day is any indication, motorists (not surprisingly) tend to favor the "warning is better" approach.
Paul Crowell of Scituate said police should be less heavy-handed with tickets.
"I think you should have warnings" he said, "so you can change the error of your ways."

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...02/24/warning/

Posted by: Sniper

When warnings used to "add up" and actually had some kind of weight for infractions I agree they are a good tool. Right now you can speed every day of the week and rack up the warnings. No KQ entry no nothing. Why would I waste my time ?????????

Posted by: adroitcuffs

Another flawed media report. I seriously doubt there is any way they can appropriately quantify the ratio of citations to warnings. There are so many other factors to take into consideration. I work a lot of traffic, but have been far too busy lately going from one call to the next and writing reports to spend much time on traffic enforcement.

I like how the article quotes the one civi as saying warnings are better. LOL, I think I've received more complaints on warnings than I have when I write the cite!!

Posted by: KozmoKramer

Quote:

I drive fairly safely, anyways," she said

Well aren't we the lucky ones Ms. Madden.. It's only a 3 or 4 thousand pound, potentially lethal weapon... Feel free to be careful; generally... Dope.

Posted by: justanotherparatrooper

Getting a ticket can often be infuriating. To appeal means taking a day off from work to plead one's case in court.
Geee, if there was only some way to aviod that.....

Posted by: lofu

"I always leave it up to the officers on the street," said Quincy Chief Robert F. Crowley.

Delta784, care to comment on this?

Posted by: Wolfman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another Lemming

I drive fairly safely, anyways," she said

That's about as reassuring as my surgeon saying he operates "fairly safely".

Posted by: Jaycee

haha

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by lofu

"I always leave it up to the officers on the street," said Quincy Chief Robert F. Crowley.

Delta784, care to comment on this?

Let his own words bury him;

Crowley said he would monitor the number of traffic citations and warnings being issued.

‘‘If I don’t see any improvement, there will definitely be some action in coming weeks,’’ the chief said.

http://ledger.southofboston.com/arti...ews/news03.txt

Posted by: mtc

Wow

Posted by: SinePari

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwflatbed

Or maybe younger officers are more aggressive in some communities, they suggested.

Funny how a lot of "younger" officers I know aren't the ones writing 100s of tickets each month. Besides, aren't most cities' traffic units made up of more senior officers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwflatbed

All interviewed agreed that ticketing - whether to give a warning or a citation - is up to the individual officer's discretion, and that officers do not have citation quotas.

You take away that discretion, you watch how much the complaint hotline lights up when you make civil infractions a "shall-issue" money train.

Posted by: AbleOne

If it wasn't for the surcharge the numbers might be different. Why would anyone want to help the Insurance companies make more money.

Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwflatbed

"I always leave it up to the officers on the street," said Quincy Chief Robert F. Crowley.
Officers are as aware as anyone else that a civil citation takes a bite out of a driver's wallet, he said, reviewing numbers which showed his officers to be more lenient.
"I don't think they want to burden the public with additional expenses," he said.
He wondered if the numbers varied because officers in the city had other pressing priorities, such as domestic disputes, robberies, and burglaries.

He doesn't need to wonder. He knows exactly why the numbers are the way they are and I'm sure the reporters do too. Their paper published an article only a month ago on the situation...hell I just checked the article and it was written by the same guy. So I know he knows about the situation. So this reporter is either playing dumb or he really is dumb...which wouldn't surprise me because he couldn't even quote Bruce right...when it was straight off the blog.

Posted by: kwflatbed

By Ralph Ranalli and Manny Veiga

Globe Staff And Globe Correspondent / March 30, 2008

Despite the dread many drivers feel when they see those blue lights flashing unmistakably in their rear-view mirror, the punishment that errant motorists are most likely to receive in local communities is the same one they used to get from mom or dad when they were kids - a good talking-to.
Based on records provided by 21 local police departments, over half of them were more likely to issue a written warning for minor traffic infractions than a citation calling for a fine or court appearance. The police agencies had responded to a request, which was filed with all of the departments across the region, for information regarding tickets issued during 2007.
In some cases, drivers were overwhelmingly more likely to get a warning than a fine. The Southborough Police Department, for example, handed out 1,613 written warnings for infractions ranging from failure to heed a stop sign to speeding. Only 598 drivers were fined, however, meaning that officers issued written warnings in 73 percent of documented traffic stops.
In both Dover and Wellesley, police issued written warnings more than 65 percent of the time. In Newton, drivers were warned instead of fined almost 72 percent of the time.
On the other end of the spectrum were Medway, where police had motorists digging into their wallets 88 percent of the time, and Natick, where police issued fines rather than written warnings in more than 60 percent of all but the most serious documented traffic stops.
The percentage of warnings rises even more dramatically when verbal warnings - cases where an officer stops a driver but makes no official written record of it - are taken into account.
Many of the departments that responded to the Globe's request for information said they do not keep track of verbal warnings, and one, Framingham, said it had a policy against officers issuing purely verbal warnings. But among the departments that do keep track of verbal warnings, the influence on the statistics was dramatic.
In Lincoln, for example, police issued written warnings instead of fines 59 percent of the time in 2007, but when the 495 less-formal verbal warnings issued were taken into account, the frequency of warnings overall rose to more than 68 percent. In Needham, verbal warnings pushed the incidence of warnings issued from 72 percent to nearly 82 percent.
So why all the warnings? Simply put, police say, they work.
"People tend to remember a warning in a positive way - it's a positive interaction and positive reinforcement," Bolton Police Chief Vincent Alfano said. "A fine people usually remember in a negative way."
In other words, people who feel like they've been treated with compassion and understanding by their local police are more likely to try to be a better citizen on the roadways in the future, he said. People who have been fined, meanwhile, can sometimes feel picked on and actually become less motivated to follow the rules when they're on the road, he said.
In Newton, the patrol officers union actually went to court several years ago and fought an order by then-Police Chief Jose M. Cordero that officers stop handing out written warnings and issue only fines instead. In 2005, the state Court of Appeals sided with lawyers for the union, who had argued that state law both gave police officers the discretion to issue warnings and prohibited cities and towns from using traffic citations as a means to generate revenue.
Court decisions and a reluctance to interfere with law-enforcement policies have largely prevented local officials from calling on their police departments to issue more fines, even though municipal budgets are getting increasingly tight and many communities are facing the choice between cutting back services or asking voters for Proposition 2 1/2 overrides to raise taxes.
In Southborough, officials acknowledge that the 1,613 warnings issued by the police represented the loss of tens of thousands of dollars in potential revenue. The money would come in handy this year, Town Administrator Jean Kitchen said.
"Budgets are really, really tight," she said. "We have had to look at various ways to cut costs or raise revenues."
Yet while town officials are discussing options such as personnel cuts and tax increases, one measure that no one seems to be talking about is to have police levy more fines against errant motorists, Kitchen said. "We allow the Police Department to make those sorts of determinations," she said.
While theories abound about the best way to avoid getting a traffic fine - crocodile tears, playing dumb, obsequious politeness, deference to the officer, among others - police officials say that the reasons why officers issue warnings instead of fines and vice versa are actually fairly straightforward.
Lieutenant Bruce Apothaker, a spokesman for the Newton police, said patrolmen are trained in using their discretion while making traffic stops, and are also instructed by the department's operations manual, which suggests that warnings be issued for violations that are "minor in nature, unique, or are infractions of which the driver is not aware."
In Bolton, Alfano said, while there are no specific guidelines for officers on when to give a warning and when to levy a fine, is generally understood that a warning is probably acceptable in most cases. But in situations that involve serious threats to public safety - such as excessive speeding or suspected drunken driving - there is basically no leeway for officers to issue a warning, Alfano said.
(For that reason, the statistics analyzed by the Globe do not include incidents in which motorists were arrested, since there is virtually no practical discretion in such situations, police said.)
"A lot of it has to do with the seriousness of the violation," Alfano said. "If someone is going 5 or 10 miles per hour over the limit in a remote area, that does not carry the same gravity as someone going 75 through a school zone."
Another major consideration, Alfano said, involves a nearly pure judgment call by the officer - whether the person will correct his or her behavior if they are only issued a warning. Often, a quick computer check of the offender's driving record will do the trick, he said.
"Honestly, if someone's been stopped 20 times, how effective is a warning going to be?" he said.
Excessive belligerence, Alfano said, can also be a fairly good indicator to an officer about whether a driver is likely to reform their errant driving without the added motivation of a fine. That doesn't necessarily mean that slavish politeness will guarantee a warning, however.
"The police business is all about dealing with people," Alfano said. "The one thing you get to pick up over the years is being a good reader of people - you just get a sense of when someone is snowing you and when someone is sincere.
"I've stopped plenty of people who have been polite and professional, but who still received a fine because of what they did.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...03/30/warning/

Posted by: Delta784

Talk about lazy journalism; that's just a rework of the same story done by Matt Carroll in the Boston Globe South section back in February.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...02/24/warning/

Posted by: dave7336

In Southborough, officials acknowledge that the 1,613 warnings issued by the police represented the loss of tens of thousands of dollars in potential revenue. The money would come in handy this year, Town Administrator Jean Kitchen said.
"Budgets are really, really tight," she said. "We have had to look at various ways to cut costs or raise revenues."
Yet while town officials are discussing options such as personnel cuts and tax increases, one measure that no one seems to be talking about is to have police levy more fines against errant motorists, Kitchen said. "We allow the Police Department to make those sorts of determinations," she said.

last time I checked, I did not work for the tax office.

Posted by: LA Copper

[quote=dave7336;275723]In Southborough, officials acknowledge that the 1,613 warnings issued by the police represented the loss of tens of thousands of dollars in potential revenue. The money would come in handy this year, Town Administrator Jean Kitchen said.
"Budgets are really, really tight," she said. "We have had to look at various ways to cut costs or raise revenues."
Yet while town officials are discussing options such as personnel cuts and tax increases, one measure that no one seems to be talking about is to have police levy more fines against errant motorists, Kitchen said. "We allow the Police Department to make those sorts of determinations," she said.

last time I checked, I did not work for the tax office.

That's true, but don't the fines you write for traffic citations go into the town's general fund, which helps pay for stuff you need... i.e., salaries, patrol cars, gas for patrol cars, equipment, training, etc... It works like that out my way, doesn't it work that way back there?

Posted by: dave7336

That's true, but don't the fines you write for traffic citations go into the town's general fund, which helps pay for stuff you need... i.e., salaries, patrol cars, gas for patrol cars, equipment, training, etc... It works like that out my way, doesn't it work that way back there?[/quote]

I believe half of the funds go into the towns funds and half to the state. My point was more to the fact that I don't like the idea of a town trying to take away an officer's discretion when it comes to writing a citation.

I have no problem writing someone up for a major infraction or having an attitude or they have been given breaks before and haven't learned from them. However, if it is a local person, you can sometimes generate more goodwill with a warning. This could pay off in the future when you are looking for the budget increase and it comes to a vote with the town meeting.

In a larger city, it may be different, but in a town where the housewife who got the ticket has the husband on town meeting, it could come back to bite you. I agree that it is not perfect, but you have to work within the environment you are in.

Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

Honestly, I do traffic enforcement 75% of the time to find someone with a warrant or wanted by another department... They other 25% of the time is for public safety reasons. Criminals 99% of the time have bad driving habits which police take notice... To give drivers a money ticket I usually look at their driving record as well as the infraction they committed. A written warning is given otherwise if everything is ok... I try not to give verbal warnings but quit often do in about 10% of my stops.

Posted by: KozmoKramer

Original Thread from February 08'.
http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48158

Posted by: kwflatbed

Threads Merged

Posted by: Deuce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Wampanoag

Criminals 99% of the time have bad driving habits which police take notice...

So true, bad guys gotta get to their scheduled law breaking appointments via public way. I don't do tons of traffic per say, but it's a great way to get into a car. And if any of you liberal scum are reading this, no I don't use a traffic stop as a pretext to search a vehicle. Just like I'd never stop and frisk/search someone on a hunch.. right?... Over the years though I have noticed my consideration for warnings has diminished. A persons driving habits is a micro view into their general being. If someone is generally an asshole, they drive like an ass.. 20 days, appeal or pay bitches...

Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Globe

In Newton, the patrol officers union actually went to court several years ago and fought an order by then-Police Chief Jose M. Cordero that officers stop handing out written warnings and issue only fines instead. In 2005, the state Court of Appeals sided with lawyers for the union, who had argued that state law both gave police officers the discretion to issue warnings and prohibited cities and towns from using traffic citations as a means to generate revenue.
Court decisions and a reluctance to interfere with law-enforcement policies have largely prevented local officials from calling on their police departments to issue more fines, even though municipal budgets are getting increasingly tight and many communities are facing the choice between cutting back services or asking voters for Proposition 2 1/2 overrides to raise taxes.

That'll all change, just give it some time. Take away details and you won't be able to stop guys from writing tickets. There won't be a damn thing anyone can do about it either. What goes around comes around...

Posted by: rokurmthr61

well don't drive through bolton ma if you don't want a ticket haha no warnings in their eyes! haha

I feel that it should be MY decision TO GIVE THAT milf a ticket or make that day lucky for her with a warning!

Posted by: HiredGoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokurmthr61

well don't drive through bolton ma if you don't want a ticket haha no warnings in their eyes! haha

Did you actually read the article?

Quote:

In Bolton, Alfano said, while there are no specific guidelines for officers on when to give a warning and when to levy a fine, is generally understood that a warning is probably acceptable in most cases.

More warnings than money V's. Of course, the old reputation probably still helps at times.

Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokurmthr61

Funny you mention Bolton and using discretion. The only ticket I ever got was in Bolton. I was going to college in Gardner and gave a classmate who lived somewhere near Bolton, a ride home. I was doing 45mph on a main street when the speed limit suddenly turned to 35mph. The officer pulled us over and gave me a ticket for 10mph over.

I was very respectful (and nervous like a 20 yr-old would be) and didn't talk my way into the ticket but he gave it to me anyway. No discretion in this case I guess.... and Bolton was way out of my way since I was driving to Arlington at that time. No good deed goes unpunished I guess.. That was about 1983.

Posted by: HiredGoon

Yep, got stopped there too, on a few occasions...the hazard of being in the regional high school, I suppose.

No doubt there's an old reputation...'83 woulda been the old Chief "papa smurf" days. To this day, people still jack on the brakes as soon as they approach the town center.

It's a whole new dept. these days, under new (and well overdue) quality management.

Posted by: rokurmthr61

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiredGoon

Yep, got stopped there too, on a few occasions...the hazard of being in the regional high school, I suppose.

No doubt there's an old reputation...'83 woulda been the old Chief "papa smurf" days. To this day, people still jack on the brakes as soon as they approach the town center.

It's a whole new dept. these days, under new (and well overdue) quality management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Copper

LMAO theres a sign in the station that says "speed in this town leave with a ticket"!! LMFAO

I haven't gone through there unless i have to go its just fucking stupid how they pull over EVERY F*CKING CAR

comon i know theres a couple bolton douchebags on here lets here your reason!

Posted by: Deuce

Quote:

Originally Posted by rokurmthr61

comon i know theres a couple bolton douchebags on here lets here your reason!

Classy, and where do you work douchebag?

Posted by: HiredGoon

^ glad you chimed in Deuce...I was holding my tongue.

From the variety/maturity/lack of articulation in other threads, I would suspect he doesn't work.

And Rokurmther, please, by all means refer to our brothers in Bolton as 'douchebag' next time they stop you...I'm sure they won't mind

Afterall, EVERY car gets stopped there...at the "screw-the-motorist" grant-funded toll plazas erected on either end of 117, with the giant banner overhead reading You Will Leave Bolton with a Ticket

...so it's just a matter of time, right?

Posted by: frapmpd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by resqjyw0

Yeah, that pendulum might very well swing the other way. The next article will be a complete opposite writing how, (on a slow news day of course), that there are too many tickets being issued and not enough warnings.

On a side note... time to write about some real news. No wonder the national news web sites and 24/7 cable news channels are hurting the newspaper business, because the best these news geeks can come up with is a story about "warnings" from the evil cops.

One can only hope the Globe, Herald, Telegram & Gazette, Patriot Ledger, Eagle Tribune, etc, are going the way of the vinyl record. If this is the best they can do I can see why the reporters, probably getting paid some poor salary less than cops to bust their but, are taking aim at us. Might as well take all the other professions out at the knees with them

.

Ok, end of my rant. These slow news day stories just drive me nuts.
</IMG>

Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:

Originally Posted by frapmpd24

Umm...so? I already knew that was something that would come. What are you saying, if this happens (details are out and ticket writing spree is in) and they start running articles in the paper about the ticket writing spree, details will be back? Or are you trying to imply that they're going to start dicking around with discretion? That'll be the day when they say you can issue only a certain number of tickets in a specified period of time.

Posted by: mtc

The media plain likes bitching about cops - doesn't matter what the subject of the complaint is, tickets, details, overtime, court time.... They just plain like to bitch.

Posted by: rokurmthr61

haha true that

Posted by: frapmpd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by resqjyw0

What I am saying is pretty simple...today the article is about too many warnings, once you see the first flagman hit the streets it will be about too many tickets.

Not saying anything at all about discretion. Happy Writing

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtc

The media plain likes bitching about cops - doesn't matter what the subject of the complaint is, tickets, details, overtime, court time.... They just plain like to bitch.

Exactly!

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