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Posted by: fscpd907

FSC trustees near potential gun vote


By John Hilliard/Daily News staff
The MetroWest Daily News
Posted Mar 25, 2008 @ 10:00 AM

FRAMINGHAM — Framingham State College's board of trustees could decide by May whether to issue guns to its unarmed campus police force, following a public meeting between administrators, students and staff yesterday.

"If your life is in danger, do you want us to take a back seat" in an emergency, asked college Police Chief Brad Medeiros during a meeting with about 50 students and school staff in Dwight Hall yesterday.

During a campus shooting, if the college police aren't armed, "we're no good to you," he said.

Framingham's town police, along with college President Timothy Flanagan and other officials, support an armed campus force. Last year, a campus panel of faculty, staff and administrators issued a report recommending weapons if several conditions are met, including new background checks on officers, plus additional training, certification and oversight on how campus officers use guns.

The school's board of trustees will discuss whether to vote on arming campus police during the panel's meeting on Thursday night, said Flanagan. The board could make a final vote on whether to arm college police during its May 15 meeting, he said.

The faculty union has voted against the proposal to arm the campus officers. A non-binding question - asking students whether they support armed police - will be on the student government election ballot next month, said Flanagan.

While the idea for arming the force started when Flanagan took over in 2006, the question gained some urgency after well-publicized shootings at Virginia Tech and NorthernIllinoisUniversity. Framingham State was also the scene of a recent bomb threat that forced the evacuation of a building on campus.

Yesterday, Flanagan was joined by Medeiros and Framingham town police Deputy Chief Craig Davis.

Medeiros said it would cost about $50,000 to train and equip the department.

Several students, including T.J. Lincoln, called on officials to allow students to carry weapons such as mace, pepper spray and guns. Lincoln, reading from prepared statement, said he collected signatures from students who backed allowing students and staff to carry weapons on campus.

"By the looks of the (school) handbook, your advice seems to be run and hide," said Lincoln, who cited shootings at Northern Illinois in his remarks.

Another student made a similar request, and asked Flanagan whether he'd support changing the law to allow armed students on campus.

"If campus police should be able to arm themselves, students should be able to defend themselves" by having the choice to carry weapons, said the student.

Under state law, weapons are forbidden on school grounds, except for those carried by police, said officials yesterday, plus guns require owners to be at least 21 years old, which would exclude many current college students. Even carrying mace and pepper spray requires a firearm ID card, but are still included in the school weapons ban.

Flanagan said he wouldn't lobby for such a change in state law.

Framingham Police's Davis warned that weapons, for untrained users, can provide a false sense of security and lead to dangerous situations. He also noted that armed college police would add to the manpower of the town's Police Department.

"You don't want to be so focused on weapons and so concerned with, 'Am I going to be harmed today?"' he said, noting that security is the job of trained police. "It's not that clear a solution" to arm everyone on campus, he said.

Other students, including a freshman who gave her name as Monica, supported an armed police force. She said she assumed police always carried guns before coming to Framingham State.

"When I heard you guys didn't have guns, I thought that was ridiculous," she said, calling a gun "part of the (police) uniform."

Flanagan asked students and staff to sign up for the college's alert program, which sends messages over cell phones and e-mail in case of a campus-wide emergency.

Of the nine state colleges, Westfield, Salem, Bridgewater and Fitchburg arm their campus police. FraminghamState, along with WorcesterState, MassMaritime, MassArt and the College of Liberal Arts, do not allow campus police to carry guns.

The Board of Higher Education has no statewide policy on whether campus police should be armed, leaving that decision to each college administration.

Many colleges in Massachusetts rely on officers who are trained and under the authority of the Massachusetts State Police to staff their departments. But the law grants any college the ability to appoint their own officers who have the same authority as municipal police.

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Posted by: new guy

Best of luck to the Officers at FSC. Hopefully wisdom and common sense will guide the trustees vote.

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Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:

Originally Posted by new guy Best of luck to the Officers at FSC. Hopefully wisdom and common sense will guide the trustees vote.

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by The MetroWest Daily News Under state law, weapons are forbidden on school grounds, except for those carried by police, said officials yesterday, plus guns require owners to be at least 21 years old, which would exclude many current college students. Even carrying mace and pepper spray requires a firearm ID card, but are still included in the school weapons ban.

They can legally do it off school grounds, but when they set foot on school grounds they are automatically deemed a hazard. When lives are on the line and every second counts, you can always count on a police officer to be right there to save the day.

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Posted by: Tuna

There is no reason in the world why a police officer should not be armed. I hope this is approved. I do wonder though, will FSC officers be allowed to carry in Framingham DC

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Posted by: fscpd907

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna will FSC officers be allowed to carry in Framingham DC

I asked the question and was told by the Court Officers that we will not be allowed to carry in the courthouse.

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Posted by: Kilvinsky

Comments:

a) Monica seems like quite a smart young woman.
b) It's good to see the college President working WITH the PD
c) It's really wonderful that the local PDs have been working WITH the college PDs in pushing for arming. I recall when Salem started to carry. Bravo!
d) The faculty at FSC must need a bit of a real world scare.

Questions:

a) Isn't Worcester in the process of arming? I could have sworn I read that here somewhere.
b) Just what will a court officer do if you just walk past him with your gun on? Almost sounds like the waters could use some testing.

We faced that for a while at Cambridge Court. We had never had problems but all of a sudden, it was against the rules. Then one day, one of our guys who is happy to say just what he feels, was stopped. He asked, "Are the Deputy Sheriff's allowed to carry in the courthouse? When the reply came back in the affirmative, he simply said (in a somewhat forceful way) "WELL, I'M A DEPUTY SHERIFF!" We are and he was allowed to proceed.

We've never been stopped since.

Really petty silly shit, ain't it? So, who makes that descision as to who can and can't carry? If I were stopped, I would ask to see the memorandum that forbids it and look to see who signed it. That's when the chief should make a call to that persons superior and press the matter.

Just my opinion.

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Posted by: Tuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by fscpd907 I asked the question and was told by the Court Officers that we will not be allowed to carry in the courthouse.

find out what chapter and section allows the court to single your dept out and prohibit carrying a firearm. I'm very courious as to there response.

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Posted by: mcpd704

I have worked for two different campus PDs, one armed and one unarmed. I don't think that I will ever understand the reasoning for the faculty or administration not wanting to arm their campus police departments and I fail to see how arming a PD would be a bad move. How long do they think they can bury their heads in the sand on this issue??...then again, maybe I am beating a dead horse here.

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Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilvinsky So, who makes that descision as to who can and can't carry?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna find out what chapter and section allows the court to single your dept out and prohibit carrying a firearm. I'm very courious as to there response.

Refer to the thread about "Angry Tony" at Worcester District Court.

http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41253

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Posted by: 5-0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilvinsky Isn't Worcester in the process of arming? I could have sworn I read that here somewhere. Just my opinion.

Worcester State has been carrying for a couple months now.

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Posted by: Mass

Best of luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by: HOLLYROCK50

First I would like to say I am a former FSCPD Officer, and I am so glad that they are seriously talking about arming the PD there. It is long over due... Nothing worse than going to a gun call, without a gun!

I wouldn't worry about Framingham DC, I don't think they will bust balls and make you check your gun. Besides, aren't you still wearing french blue shirts? More likely your gonna have a court security guard asking you how to become a trooper...

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Posted by: JMB1977

best of luck to FSC!

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Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOLLYROCK50 I wouldn't worry about Framingham DC, I don't think they will bust balls and make you check your gun.

I'll bet $100 they will!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by: new guy

Hopefully they'll get the opportunity to find out.

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Posted by: Tuna

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61 I'll bet $100 they will!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll put up the second $100 and say it's gonna be a bigger problem than they think

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Posted by: Badge 17

Just an update to everyone...the Trustees met lat night and talked it over for over two hours with Chief Medeiros. They determined they will oficially vote yay or nay at the May 15th meeting. Until then it's a waiting game.

On a side note...every time I have ever been in that court house I have been mistaken for a trooper...we'll cross the checking the gun issue brigde when we cross it. Hopefully we at least get the opportunity.

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Posted by: HOLLYROCK50

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61 I'll bet $100 they will!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna I'll put up the second $100 and say it's gonna be a bigger problem than they think

Have either one of you had a problem at Framingham DC? When I worked in Boston as a Special in Housing some of the Boston courts would make us check our guns, but not all of them. It was told to us, that it was the Judges choice who could bring guns into court. I can't see the Judges at Framingham making a big deal about it. I don't even think they realize you don't have guns now! They are too busy dismissing everyones cases!!! Just my 2 cents...

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Posted by: Kilvinsky

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badge 17 Just an update to everyone...the Trustees met lat night and talked it over for over two hours with Chief Medeiros. They determined they will oficially vote yay or nay at the May 15th meeting. Until then it's a waiting game.

That official vote will be to determine the date to actually vote for or against guns. The yay or nay is-Do we vote on the gun issue? Yay or Nay?

Once that vote is taken on May 15th, a date will be set to vote on the arming issue.

Then a date will be picked to decide when the firearms training will begin.

THEN, a date will be picked to decided if ALL officers or just supervisors can carry.

NEXT a date to determine when the carrying will commence.

You guys at FSC will finally be carrying a firearm sometime around 2018 because let's face it, the class of 2014 will come in and say, "We never had a say!" and much of the process will restart.

Keep up the good fight and thanks for the update! You folks at FSC are very much respected by me for not giving up despite every obstacle they seem to throw at you!

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Posted by: Dan8784

Worcester state is armed.

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Posted by: coppah914

That student T.J. Lincoln is quite the Whacker.

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