Originally Posted by Killjoy

Policing is a physical profession, and tends to attract males...what can be done to change that? Many females are not attracted to physical professions. Many minorities and brought up to have little to no respect for the policing profession, and how can you instill in them a desire for public service? Giving them some kind of free ticket into policing only creates more problems then it solves...think Miami PD of the eighties or other departments that grease the wheels for certain minorities, overlooking character flaws, brushes with the law, and psychological problems all in the name of "diversity". It creates nothing but resentment from officers who did not receive special treatment, and often leads to officers with mediocre careers at best and outright criminals at worst.

Originally Posted by Delta784

Well said.

Originally Posted by Killjoy

What a crock...so the MSP can give advantages to people with high-up connections the same way the BPD does? No thank you, you want on, score high.

Originally Posted by WaterPistola

its been a long time since we heard anything about hiring. Now this article comes out and everyone gets upset about his plans for trying to get women and minorities to apply. I am just happy to hear that they need troopers and will try to speed up the process soon!

Originally Posted by 1234hey

With that said, wouldn't having potential recruits show up for a physical test first and then proceed to a written be an accurate and initial gauge to his/her potential as a Trooper?

Originally Posted by phuzz01

On the flip side, with MSP testing several thousand applicants at the same time, doing the PT test first might be logistically impossible.

Originally Posted by Delta784

I do remember standing in line for the CS test back in 1990, and the guy behind me was about 5'9" and at least 400lbs. I don't know what he was thinking, unless he was planning to start a starvation diet the next day.

Originally Posted by Killjoy

I am an minority, and I am proud that my accomplishments do not come at the price of other more qualified people being placed beneath me.

Originally Posted by Delta784

Well said.

Originally Posted by crisco88

$75 times x ( X being the variable for # of applicants) is why the written test is done first not the physical.

Originally Posted by Delta784

Which is why they don't do it, nor does civil service for the city/town police exam. It's a lot easier to get thousands of people to sit down in a high school on one Saturday to take a 2-hour written exam than it is to run thousands of people through a multi-phase physical fitness test.

Originally Posted by crisco88

My bad, thought the MSP Test was the same price as the Civil Civil Service

Originally Posted by 1234hey

It sounds as if there will be a major testing reform!

I think there's a glimmer of hope for those of us waiting to get on and waiting to go through the hiring process - testing, etc. Hopefully the Irish Americans are part of his diversity plan, ha ha.

Originally Posted by crisco88

Waterpistola is just angry that Johnny Ola stole his stool at the Blue Oyster

Originally Posted by WaterPistola

nah just rippin a newbie a new one

Originally Posted by 1234hey

"Twenty years after an Irishman couldn't get a f**king job, we had the presidency. May he rest in peace."

Originally Posted by USMCTrooper

Killjoy is an ABSOLUTE minority.........one of the few elite who have served in the BUSIEST barracks in the Commonwealth...B-3!

Originally Posted by Killjoy

What a crock...so the MSP can give advantages to people with high-up connections the same way the BPD does? No thank you, you want on, score high.

Originally Posted by samadam78

So has anyone heard of an actual timeframe for a hiring process yet?

Originally Posted by samadam78

So has anyone heard of an actual timeframe for a hiring process yet?

Originally Posted by Kem25

The state police need to come up with some system to allow veterans to take the test upon separating. I missed the test in 2002 due to deployment....no big deal because I was not getting out till 2005 and I figured there would be another one. Well six years later no test....I am sure I am not the only veteran that had the same thought process. I do not want to start a veterans debate but again you cannot force people to be cops and veterans have already shown a committment to public service.

Originally Posted by LikeIt223

This could be the biggest bunch of BS or it could be true.. I'll throw it out there anyways. Just realize I heard this from someone who "knows people dealing with the hiring process" so... take it with a grain of salt.

Supposedly they want to put through a full class in '09- SHE SAYS THAT SHE HEARD the class is supposed to be primarily for minorities and women. To her credit she is a respectable/trustworthy person. I freaked out when I heard it cause that seems like the setup for a process overloaded with REVERSE DISCRIMINATION. I hope it's not true, but this is MASS and Patrick seems to be very big of "diversifying" all public agencies.

Ill be hanging on for the ride.

Originally Posted by PaulKersey

Why is everyone so surprised? This has been going on in the bigger cities for decades through civil service. I've seen classes go through that were 30% Haitian, 30% Asian, 30% Hispanic, 10% white etc. Score didn't matter, as long as they passed with a 70. This was mandated by the courts- for the departments to reflect a percentage of the population. It was only a matter of time before it caught up to MSP. What will this be, the forth or fifth class from the same test? This was unheard of years ago.

This is a politically correct society folks. You youngens better get used to it.

Originally Posted by Delta784

If you were deployed you could have taken a make-up exam.

Originally Posted by LikeIt223

And Paul, saying that someone needs to get used to something because it is "Politically Correct" is the biggest crock of sh*t I have heard in a while. Since when do you tell someone to accept that they are being discriminated against because it is PC. .

Originally Posted by Sniper

Just heard from my buddys buddy, who is a thrid-cousin of the short Trooper on Route 2 that someone asked about last week, that there WILL DEFINATELY BE an 80th RTT.

Originally Posted by LikeIt223

Supposedly they want to put through a full class in '09- SHE SAYS THAT SHE HEARD the class is supposed to be primarily for minorities and women. To her credit she is a respectable/trustworthy person. I freaked out when I heard it cause that seems like the setup for a process overloaded with REVERSE DISCRIMINATION. I hope it's not true, but this is MASS and Patrick seems to be very big of "diversifying" all public agencies.

Originally Posted by emerlad

Kind of tough to be discriminated against when your not in the protected minority group.
Reverse discrimination is a figment.

Originally Posted by emerlad

Kind of tough to be discriminated against when your not in the protected minority group.
Reverse discrimination is a figment.

Originally Posted by MM1799

First you'll need to explain what "reverse discrimination" is to me.
Second stop getting everyone in a panic mode with your comments.

Everyone needs to relax. If you think the media was going to ask Col Delaney about the hiring process and minorities/women demographics in his departments and he wasn't going to say exactly what was written -- you're niave.

Originally Posted by CTrain

Or the 5'1", 136 lb woman Trooper who can't pull you out of that burning car

Originally Posted by LikeIt223

I am in a forum discussing the MSP and its demographics. Should I not write things about that topic? Did I not put every possible disclaimer on that statement as possible?? I do not think anyone is in panic mode, we all know that we will take the test no matter what and that you get what you get sometimes.

Originally Posted by Sniper

AGREED.

Originally Posted by Killjoy

What a crock...so the MSP can give advantages to people with high-up connections the same way the BPD does? No thank you, you want on, score high.

Its all well and good to want to attract people of different backgrounds and ethnicities to the MSP...but you can't force people to want to do the job. Nor can you grant unfair advantages to people, simply because of who their parents happen to be. If you wanted to increase recruitment in minority areas, that's fine, just don't grant special advantage to those people.

I am an minority, and I am proud that my accomplishments do not come at the price of other more qualified people being placed beneath me. I simply scored higher and performed better than other competing for this job, and no one can take away from that. I certainly wouldn't want to work for a department that granted me some kind of special privilege for simply what my race is.

Policing is a physical profession, and tends to attract males...what can be done to change that? Many females are not attracted to physical professions. Many minorities and brought up to have little to no respect for the policing profession, and how can you instill in them a desire for public service? Giving them some kind of free ticket into policing only creates more problems then it solves...think Miami PD of the eighties or other departments that grease the wheels for certain minorities, overlooking character flaws, brushes with the law, and psychological problems all in the name of "diversity". It creates nothing but resentment from officers who did not receive special treatment, and often leads to officers with mediocre careers at best and outright criminals at worst.

Originally Posted by nirtallica

7 pages and we continue to march! Its all about money folks. haven't you figured that out by now? It is more likely that an 80th RTT will be more cost effective off the current list than a new test, which could take up to a year to administer. Throw in the Col's cadet plan that he spoke of and you could be looking at 2 + years before an RTT gets off the ground. You are all intelligent I assume, so do the math and tell me if that fits in with the Colonel's assesment of the current staffing levels he spoke of. That should put this thread to bed.

Originally Posted by MM1799

You're right. Keep sharing your inside information on the next test and how discriminatory the RTT will be provided to you from the female trooper who knows the inside scoop on the hiring process who, thankfully for everyone, is trustworthy and reliable. I can't wait for the next chapter.

My other comments were just a response to the article not you in particular.

Originally Posted by StrongasanAux

What about the officers that never had brushes with the law and then we see them on the news in some corruption scandal.Are they any different from those you speak of in your statement? Don't be stupid! I didn't mean that the MSP should recruit out of jails and prisons.I will tell you one thing though,I know a few officers that grew up in the hood,made it out the hood and are more trustworthy officers than your typical never got in trouble burb cop.

Originally Posted by StrongasanAux

I am no expert either MSP428,but I guess we can agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by StrongasanAux

I am no expert either MSP428,but I guess we can agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by StrongasanAux

What about the officers that never had brushes with the law and then we see them on the news in some corruption scandal.Are they any different from those you speak of in your statement? Don't be stupid! I didn't mean that the MSP should recruit out of jails and prisons.I will tell you one thing though,I know a few officers that grew up in the hood,made it out the hood and are more trustworthy officers than your typical never got in trouble burb cop.

Originally Posted by ninety_four_c

But if any of us had an advantage in a hiring process such as a relative, an outstanding reference from someone affiliated with that agency, or your race or sex, then I ask would we not use that to our advantage and stand to be judged alone by our merits. I don't think so. I think that if we have an advantage in the hiring process then we would be fools not to use it. And if you say that you wouldn't then your lieing to yourself.

Originally Posted by davejoyce2000

Once a Thief, Always a Thief

Originally Posted by davejoyce2000

Once a Thief, Always a Thief

Originally Posted by StrongasanAux

Assuming that I fit the description makes an a$$ out of you an me 428.What you should have done was left it alone,because even you do not have an immpeccable record.EVERYBODY has something in there backround.You could bet though my deepest secret wouldn't be told to an arrogant gentleman as yourself.

Originally Posted by StrongasanAux

Assuming that I fit the description makes an a$$ out of you an me 428.What you should have done was left it alone,because even you do not have an immpeccable record.EVERYBODY has something in there backround.You could bet though my deepest secret wouldn't be told to an arrogant gentleman as yourself.

Originally Posted by resqjyw0

How can you advocate for the hiring of anyone with less than impeccable background, or for people that have "brushes with law enforcement?"

Originally Posted by Delta784

On a hot call, I'll take the street-smart cop who had their scrapes growing up (misdemeanor BOP and all) and know how to handle themselves over the angel with the polished halo any day.

Originally Posted by StrongasanAux

What about the officers that never had brushes with the law and then we see them on the news in some corruption scandal.Are they any different from those you speak of in your statement? Don't be stupid! I didn't mean that the MSP should recruit out of jails and prisons.I will tell you one thing though,I know a few officers that grew up in the hood,made it out the hood and are more trustworthy officers than your typical never got in trouble burb cop.

Originally Posted by ninety_four_c

Some Say


He has the answer to everything and the solution to nothing!!

I say Once an IDIOT, Always an IDIOT

Originally Posted by Delta784

On a hot call, I'll take the street-smart cop who had their scrapes growing up (misdemeanor BOP and all) and know how to handle themselves over the angel with the polished halo any day.

Originally Posted by davejoyce2000

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Using the old exam is an exercise in cost effectiveness? I doubt it. The numbers that are being sought aren't in the money but they are likely found within the exam score range that the old exam has reached.If there is a "cadet" program sure it will be open to all...but see what specific areas it is more heavily promoted and recruited.

Ask yourself what happens to the "minority pool" if you start picking names off a brand new list with a 98 or above. Hmmmmm.....

Originally Posted by Delta784

Because everyone is human?

When the kids drinking in the local park in my area become an inconvenience to me by generating radio calls, I go down and arrest the first one I get my hands on, who is known as the sacrificial lamb. He/she is the message I send that playtime is over, and you come back at your own peril. Word spreads like wildfire, and it works like a charm.

Now, over the years using this tactic I've ruined the "impeccable backgrounds" of many teenagers because they now have BOP entries for life for either minor in possession of alcohol or being in a park after dark (city ordinance).

Should these people forever be banned from being hired as a police officer just because they were too slow, fell down while running away, or made a poor tactical decision while trying to escape?

On a hot call, I'll take the street-smart cop who had their scrapes growing up (misdemeanor BOP and all) and know how to handle themselves over the angel with the polished halo any day.

Originally Posted by ninety_four_c

You must of really internalized the comment about "Once an idiot always an idiot"

Well then, if the shoe fits"WEAR IT"

Originally Posted by mikemac64

I think some of you cops and cop wannabe's would be surprised at how many and which coworkers of yours have BOP's. That goes for all departments.

Originally Posted by Killjoy

Of course, conversely, would you trust this same cop with keys to the drug locker?

Originally Posted by Killjoy

Of course, conversely, would you trust this same cop with keys to the drug locker?

Originally Posted by REILEYDOG

EVERYBODY has broken the law. Some of us got caught, some of us didn't. Are you telling me the kid that got caught with beer or something stupid when he was 16 should be excluded for life from law enforcement?

Originally Posted by MSPField

After this the MSP will use the civil service list and will be one of the departments a candidate can check off. (This will save money and stop the long period between tests)

Originally Posted by msp428

is that 100%?

Originally Posted by 1234hey

"After this the MSP will use the civil service list and will be one of the departments a candidate can check off. (This will save money and stop the long period between tests)"

Hypothetically -

Will they incorporate the MSP option within the current civil service list?

And how would the age limits reconcile? (35 for MSP and 32 for the majority of Civil Service PDs)

Originally Posted by Rock

No. Is anything?

Originally Posted by MSPField

As far as being 100%, that's what's being pursued however anything that needs legislative changes is never 100%.

Originally Posted by MSPField

After this the MSP will use the civil service list and will be one of the departments a candidate can check off. (This will save money and stop the long period between tests)

Originally Posted by Killjoy

I never said I've never broken the law. But my mistakes were minor enough so that it didn't attract any more than casual attention from law enforcement, or were committed in the military, where you generally just received a chewing-out from your first sergeant or CO.

Isn't a sign of maturity and common sense a recognition that your actions have consequences?

Also, when many of us grew up, "back in the day", so to speak, officers had much more leeway on how they dealt with youthful offenders. If a cop caught you doing something stupid, you were likely to just get smacked around, or have the sh*t scared out or you, or maybe he just told you parents so they could deal with you appropriately. No harm, no foul and no paperwork following you around for the rest of your life. Nowadays most departments are too worried about liability to not do everything by the book, which starts a paper record that can affect the rest of your life. But these are the times we live in.

Originally Posted by MSPField

The facts are this:

MSP is trying to get one more class off of the old list. (Part of the reason why the pitch to the papers about the possibility of many retirements soon, also more minorities are represented at the current 95-96 scores on the old list, but another class is a tough sell in the current budget environment)

There is no special minority class planned, period.

After this the MSP will use the civil service list and will be one of the departments a candidate can check off. (This will save money and stop the long period between tests)

Originally Posted by j809

So this will open up the door to lateral transfers once they are on the same list. No more time at the SPA?

Originally Posted by ninety_four_c

It almost appears that those who are truely not qualified enough to work in law enforcement are finding excuses for why they are not getting hired.

Originally Posted by bbelichick

The SPA will always be a requirement.

Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop

Unless your a Met, Registry or Capital cop

Originally Posted by bbelichick

A one time exception, just like taking applicants from Civil Service. I doubt it will ever happen again.

Originally Posted by bbelichick

Lateral transfers? No friggin way. I don't think a single SP in the country allows laterals.

The SPA will always be a requirement.