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details distribution

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Posted by: HiredGoon

Sorry if this has been posted about before, but I didn't see any threads while doing a search. I'm interested in hearing how other departments handle filling details. We've had some recent offline discussions among members of our union, about possibly changing how we distribute the opportunity to work details. We use only a seniority basis currently, with SGT's also included in the list (at the top). No amount of detail hours worked, or whether previous details were declined, factors into our system. We only keep track of hours worked through IMC when dealing with OT. If someone marks themselves as eligible for a detail during a time period, and declines, we don't currently have any system in place that adjusts their position in the list.

Thanks for any input



Posted by: Delta784

We start the calendar year with everyone at zero hours, ranked by seniority. If the senior officer gets a 8 hour detail, he gets 8 hours added to his total and then goes to the bottom of the list behind the most junior officer with zero hours, and so on. If two officers are tied in hours and both want a certain detail, seniority rules. Refusals are 4 hours. City overtime and details are different, distinct lists.



Posted by: Gil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784 View Post
We start the calendar year with everyone at zero hours, ranked by seniority. If the senior officer gets a 8 hour detail, he gets 8 hours added to his total and then goes to the bottom of the list behind the most junior officer with zero hours, and so on. If two officers are tied in hours and both want a certain detail, seniority rules. Refusals are 4 hours. City overtime and details are different, distinct lists.
Almost the same here but our refusals are 8 hours and we also have a separate list for out of town details.



Posted by: HOLLYROCK50

We by far have the worst way of filling details.... We use a days off rotating seniority list. Which means people on their days off are on a rotating seniortiy based list and are asked first. The list is detrmined by the last to work a detail. The next senior person (sgt or officer) is asked and the list goes down from there. Once the days off people are asked, then the people who are working that day are asked. That list is a straight seiority list no rotating. Simple right? Well we run a 4-2 schedule, but have 3 officers who work 5-2. So these officers are assigned to a rotation for the purpose of filling details and can take a "4-2" day to work a detail if one gets to them on their assigned rotation days. Plus they are added to the days off list for weekends which are their days off. Needless to say you need a friggin degree from MIT to fill a detail at our place.



Posted by: Crvtte65





Posted by: Gil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crvtte65 View Post
  • If you no-call-no show you get 5 times the hours of the job (40 hrs for an 8 hrs job)
We get booted off of the list, punishment has vaired depending on who you are tho. I think the most was three weeks, that was just for being late to a two man detail. Granted he was 3 hours late but still....



Posted by: Crvtte65

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil View Post
[/list]We get booted off of the list, punishment has vaired depending on who you are tho. I think the most was three weeks, that was just for being late to a two man detail. Granted he was 3 hours late but still....
Its says we do, but the one time I have heard of someone doing it, I don't think he was. He never really signs up anyways so he could have been



Posted by: cmagryan

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOLLYROCK50 View Post
We by far have the worst way of filling details.... We use a days off rotating seniority list. Which means people on their days off are on a rotating seniortiy based list and are asked first. The list is detrmined by the last to work a detail. The next senior person (sgt or officer) is asked and the list goes down from there. Once the days off people are asked, then the people who are working that day are asked. That list is a straight seiority list no rotating. Simple right? Well we run a 4-2 schedule, but have 3 officers who work 5-2. So these officers are assigned to a rotation for the purpose of filling details and can take a "4-2" day to work a detail if one gets to them on their assigned rotation days. Plus they are added to the days off list for weekends which are their days off. Needless to say you need a friggin degree from MIT to fill a detail at our place.




Posted by: Killjoy

Our detail distribution is settled through hand-to-hand combat. Thunderdome!



Posted by: PearlOnyx

At least your jobs are centrally scheduled through one system. Here, people compete for contractors and become "schedulers". Schedulers get paid a small fee by the contractor for filling the jobs, and actually negotiate the rate of pay for that particular job with the contractor. So one day, I may work for scheduler A out on the expressway and make 42 an hour, and the next day I'll work for scheduler B in the same exact spot for a different contractor, and make 30 an hour. The schedulers also pick and choose how they fill jobs. Some use a list system, while others don't seem to have a sytem at all. I know...different state, but someone did mention that they had the worst system. I just wanted to throw out the possibility that there are worse systems out there =)



Posted by: Jaycee

where i work, you put your name on a list on the day you want to work. person with the lowest hours gets first pick of what detail they want. list is least hours to most hrs, seniority does not matter unless you are the captain



Posted by: j809

In my place we have no details.



Posted by: lofu

But Pearl, the Herald says Mass. is THE ONLY state with police details. How can that be?



Posted by: BPD142

We have a pretty fair system, say its the first day the system is put into place. We establish the list starting with the most senior Sgt down to the last patrolman and it gets numbered 1 to whatever the last number would be. If number 1 takes a detail, he gets moved to the last number and everyone else moves up the list accordingly, 2 becomes 1, 3 becomes 2 and so on. No penalty for refusing and the list just keeps rotating accordingly. I think its one of the most fair systems in place, just my 2 cents.



Posted by: PearlOnyx

Lofu,

When I moved down here everyone told me I was crazy because I was going to lose all my detail money. "There's no details in Florida!" I could work one almost every day if I wanted to. All sorts of strange myths out there...



Posted by: girlcop21

details are posted on a board (shift OT included) and who ever is interested signs up. Three days before the scheduled shift/detail, the person with the least amount of OT hours gets the job. If there is a tie, the person who has the most days since their last OT gets it; if there is still a tie then it goes to the most senior person. The OT hours tracking sheet zeroes-out every three months. If you are forced to work, your hours don't count but any other type of OT over 1 hour get added to the OT tracking sheet.



Posted by: LA Copper

We don't have details but I wish we did.



Posted by: Fowlplay

Quote:
Originally Posted by j809 View Post
In my place we have no details.
We don't have them either...but that's the nature of our job. We also have to have our part-time jobs approved by our Director, if he doesn't like the job or you, he doesn't have to approve it.



Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fowlplay View Post
We don't have them either...but that's the nature of our job. We also have to have our part-time jobs approved by our Director, if he doesn't like the job or you, he doesn't have to approve it.
Kinda the same for us. If we want to work off-duty, our commanding officer has to approve it, although he can't deny the job just because he doesn't like us. Plus, it can't be more than 20 hours a week and alcohol can't be present.



Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Copper View Post
Kinda the same for us. If we want to work off-duty, our commanding officer has to approve it, although he can't deny the job just because he doesn't like us. Plus, it can't be more than 20 hours a week and alcohol can't be present.
Is that for detail-like work (security for lack of a better word), or even if you want to pump gas or do plumbing in your off hours?



Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784 View Post
Is that for detail-like work (security for lack of a better word), or even if you want to pump gas or do plumbing in your off hours?
Any job outside the department has to be ok'ed by our CO. That means pumping gas, security work, ticket counter at the theater, plumbing, etc...

I've never heard of anyone having a problem with it, except for one job. I know of one older guy who wanted to do security at the Playboy Mansion. His request was turned down for obvious reasons. He then retired from the department and worked for the Mansion anyway. Lucky him!



Posted by: JeffC

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Copper View Post
Any job outside the department has to be ok'ed by our CO. That means pumping gas, security work, ticket counter at the theater, plumbing, etc...
do you wear your police uniform when working security like a detail around here?



Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffC View Post
do you wear your police uniform when working security like a detail around here?
No. The only time we're allowed to wear a uniform in an off-duty type job is: Dodger games, USC football games and movie jobs. Movie jobs are when they're shooting a tv show, movie, commercial, etc, on the streets and need security to protect the stars and the expensive equipment.

We aren't allowed to wear a uniform for anything else. If we do any other security jobs, it's considered non-department related.

Personally, I don't have an off-duty job. I work enough overtime dealing with crime stuff that I don't have the time or the need. I'm currently a sergeant in charge of our gang unit, which affords me a lot of overtime, too much in fact!



Posted by: tms1989

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Copper View Post
No. The only time we're allowed to wear a uniform in an off-duty type job is: Dodger games, USC football games and movie jobs. Movie jobs are when they're shooting a tv show, movie, commercial, etc, on the streets and need security to protect the stars and the expensive equipment.

We aren't allowed to wear a uniform for anything else. If we do any other security jobs, it's considered non-department related.

Personally, I don't have an off-duty job. I work enough overtime dealing with crime stuff that I don't have the time or the need. I'm currently a sergeant in charge of our gang unit, which affords me a lot of overtime, too much in fact!
Are those details done through the Dept, or does the officer have to seek them out himself? Also, does the LAPD assign officers to work things that would be details around here (like movie theater, mall security, etc) as their on-duty assignment?



Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:
Originally Posted by tms1989 View Post
Are those details done through the Dept, or does the officer have to seek them out himself? Also, does the LAPD assign officers to work things that would be details around here (like movie theater, mall security, etc) as their on-duty assignment?
We don't do details like you do back there. If someone wants to work mall security, a movie theater, or whatever, it's on them to get their own job and they aren't allowed to wear the uniform. The job still has to be approved by their CO and it can only be 20 hours a week.

The Dodger Stadium and Coliseum jobs are done through the department and they are in uniform. The movie jobs are not through the department and you usually have to know someone. Retired guys do movie jobs too and they're also in uniform.

There is so much crime out here that most guys I know just work the overtime thing. There's more money to be made in overtime handling crime stuff than there is in off-duty jobs, plus it's more fun and the reason why we came on the job in the first place. Not to mention you're covered by the City if you get hurt.



Posted by: Loyal

LA Copper, not related to the thread, but I'm curious since you are on the gang unit... which is the worst gang in L.A. in your opinion and is the animosity between the latin gangs and black gangs getting better or worse ? Are the different black and latin gangs unifying together racially to battle the other race's gangs ?



Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal View Post
LA Copper, not related to the thread, but I'm curious since you are on the gang unit... which is the worst gang in L.A. in your opinion and is the animosity between the latin gangs and black gangs getting better or worse ? Are the different black and latin gangs unifying together racially to battle the other race's gangs ?
That's a tough question, they're all just as bad. They all commit crimes and they all try to kill each other, just like they do there in Boston and Brockton and such, just on a much bigger scale.

I guess for Latino gangs I'd have to say MS-13 and 18th Street are pretty bad. Mainly because they're the biggest and most spread out. As you probably know, MS-13 started here in Los Angeles but has now spread all over the country. 18th Street is the biggest Latino gang in the city with several thousand members. They are big rivals.

For Black gangs, the Bloods and Crips are a toss up. There's all kinds of different sets of each: Pea Stones, Pirus, Rolling 20s, Rolling 30s, Rolling 60s, Grape Street, 8 Deuce, Main Street, etc. They're all killers and will shoot at you at a moments notice given the opportunity.

We've had a lot of Officer Involved Shootings in the last month or so, all of which the suspects are gangsters. They're getting a lot more bold lately, staying to shoot rather than turning to run away.

We've had a few shootings where Blacks will shoot at Hispanics and vice versa, just because they are racially divided but that doesn't happen too often on the street.

In the county jails and state prisons it's a different story. They are totally divided by race there. The Mexican Mafia (La Eme) sees to that. They are very violent and will kill you in a hearbeat. In fact, because we've had two officer involved shootings in a specific division where we killed three suspects, the Mexican Mafia has put a "green light" on LAPD officers who work that division. Scary stuff!

I don't want to hijack this thread, if you have other questions regarding gang stuff, feel free to PM me.



Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:
Originally Posted by tms1989 View Post
Are those details done through the Dept, or does the officer have to seek them out himself? Also, does the LAPD assign officers to work things that would be details around here (like movie theater, mall security, etc) as their on-duty assignment?
As far as the deparment assigning us to a theater or mall security in an on-duty capacity, that would be no. The malls all have security around here, just like back there, although some of the local smaller cities do have police substations in them, just like the South Shore Plaza and Hanover Mall to name a few.

We have so much crime to handle that all of our folks are handling policing rather than security type work. Most overtime is time and a half cash (although some is comp time). That's more money per hour than any detail or off-duty job would pay. Plus like I mentioned before, doing police work rather than a detail or off-duty job is why we all came on the job in the first place... at least it should be!





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