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Could new gun law have prevented massacre?

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: resqjyw0

Tough Illinois measure comes too late — and might have not helped


This undated image obtained from a MySpace webpage shows
Steven Kazmierczak, who killed five people at an Illinois university last week
before shooting himself.


updated 5:27 p.m. ET, Mon., Feb. 18, 2008

CHICAGO - Illinois lawmakers moved swiftly after last year's massacre at Virginia Tech to make it harder for anyone with a history of mental illness to buy guns, fortifying what were already some of the nation's toughest weapons laws.

But the new measure does not take effect until June. And whether it would have prevented last week's bloodbath at Northern Illinois University is far from clear.

Steven Kazmierczak, the 27-year-old grad student who bought an arsenal of guns in recent months and used them to kill five people and commit suicide, had been on medication and was said to have spent time in a psychiatric center as a teen in the late 1990s.

But state Sen. Dan Kotowski, a sponsor of the law that will require more detailed reporting to state officials about those who have received mental health treatment, said the sketchy information about Kazmierczak's medical history makes it impossible to know if he would have fallen under the law.

"This law is more comprehensive than most," the Democrat said Monday. "But everything needs to be evaluated and reviewed to address the problem so that something like this never happens again. This is the promise we have to make."

Reporting on those with violent behavior
The measure, when it takes effect, will require health professionals to inform state authorities about patients who display violent, suicidal or threatening behavior. Right now, such information is reported to state officials only on people who have been institutionalized, not on those who receive only outpatient treatment.

Illinois adopted the law last June, and the governor signed it in August.

Virginia lawmakers, meanwhile, still are considering a package of bills to reform that state's mental health system in the wake of the Virginia Tech tragedy, including one that would make it easier to have people involuntarily committed.

The proposals are attempts to reform a mental health system that came under increased scrutiny since a mentally disturbed student, Seung-Hui Cho, killed 32 people and himself at Virginia Tech in April.

Unlike Cho, Kazmierczak showed few outward signs of trouble. He passed repeated criminal background checks and had a state firearm owner's identification card, which requires applicants to answer a series questions, including whether they have been in a mental hospital in the preceding five years. Authorities say they verify what the applicants put down.

A former employee at a Chicago psychiatric treatment center said last week that Kazmierczak was placed there after high school by his parents. She said he used to cut himself and had resisted taking medications. And Kazmierczak's girlfriend, Jessica Baty, told CNN on Sunday that he had been on an antidepressant but had stopped taking it about three weeks ago because "it made him feel like a zombie."

Would a report have been triggered?
But even under Illinois' new law, it's not clear whether Kazmierczak said or did anything that would have triggered the reporting requirement and made him ineligible to buy guns.

Some argue the more stringent reporting rules could make it even harder to identify people who might be about to snap.

Gary Slutkin of the Chicago Project for Violence Prevention at the University of Illinois said the rules could have the unintended consequences of discouraging people from seeking help out of fear of being reported. He said that might be especially likely to happen in the case of someone fantasizing about going on a killing spree.

"If you have these ideas, you might be less likely to get help because you know for sure you'll be reported," he said.

Pro-gun forces also expressed skepticism such laws would have done any good in stopping someone like Kazmierczak.

John Boch, like many other gun-rights activists in Illinois, said the answer is for the state to loosen its gun laws, not tighten them, so that students could have been able to shoot back during the NIU attack. Illinois is one of only two states with an outright ban on carrying concealed weapons. Wisconsin is the other.

"This guy at NIU committed murder, for god's sake," Boch said. "What are a few more gun laws going to do to protect human life? There are a lot of laws he violated in killing those kids, but one more law won't make a difference to guys like that."


Posted by: Wolfman

I doubt it would have prevented anything. A person bent on murder will not let the fact that he is not legally allowed to carry a firearm slow him down much. If unable to get a firearm via illegal means, odds are he would resort to other means - explosives, a speeding car, a pointed stick...

The best defense is being able to defend..


Posted by: DPDM

So we should punish many responsible people for the acts of an irresponsible few?

Wolfman is right


Posted by: 94c

All of these cases besides guns, involve medication.

Nobody wants to address this form of legalized drug dealing that is constantly resulting in destructive behavior.

Go ahead, give people meds that have side effects of depression and suicidal behavior.

I'm getting sick and tired of stupid people.


Posted by: Harley387

Guns don't kill people. Tattoed college students on Prozac kill people.


Posted by: AbleOne

All these sick nuts seem to have a My Space page. Wait I know! Lets ban My Space.


Posted by: Hb13

Let me say this first. I in know way am planning on carrying this out.

So if I were to go to Walmart tomorrow and buy a stanley tools Hammer, and then go to the lets say Old Navy and bludgen every person who was in the store to death and continue this action until I was stopped or beat my own head in with said hammer would these people lobby against Stanley tools and their line of hammers???
Harley387 said it and alot have people said it, guns do not kill people the f*cking crazys out there kill people.


Posted by: Harley387

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hb13 View Post
Let me say this first. I in know way am planning on carrying this out.

So if I were to go to Walmart tomorrow and buy a stanley tools Hammer, and then go to the lets say Old Navy and bludgen every person who was in the store to death and continue this action until I was stopped or beat my own head in with said hammer would these people lobby against Stanley tools and their line of hammers???
Harley387 said it and alot have people said it, guns do not kill people the f*cking crazys out there kill people.

They would not only lobby against Stanley tools, but the families of those you bludgeoned would probably file wrongful death suits against Stanley tools, and Wal Mart for selling you these implements of destruction. They would then propose to levy stiff penalties in the form of "sin taxes" on all hammers sold in the U.S. This would include heavy taxes on all nails. They would also limit the size of your hammer to 6 ounces or less, cuz hey...what legitimate purpose could you have for wanting a big ass hammer? Eventually, all hammers would have to be sold with hammer locks, and the striking surface of any hammer sold would have to have a micro stamped surface, which bears the name, SS#, and address of the original owner. Of course, your choice of hammers would be quite limited, as all hammer manufacturers would be required to submit their hammers to the Massachusetts Attorney General for testing. This would eliminate those "junk hammers", commonly known as "Saturday night specials". Oh, did I mention that all public places would be declared "Hammer free zones"?


Posted by: Hb13




I like your sig harley I think I've heard him say that 10-20 times so far.


Posted by: jettsixx

Harley do you write mass laws in your spare time? Just wondering. Because that sound like it would be close to what what happen.

Hb-Stay out of Wal Mart and old Navy at least until you calm down a little.


Posted by: Harley387

Quote:
Originally Posted by jettsixx View Post
Harley do you write mass laws in your spare time? Just wondering. Because that sound like it would be close to what what happen.

My guess is, it's probably quite accurate.


Posted by: Will Brink

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbleOne View Post
All these sick nuts seem to have a My Space page. Wait I know! Lets ban My Space.
SUV Hits Several Outside California Middle School

Thursday, May 03, 2007


May 2: An SUV sits outside the Ralston Middle School in Belmont.

BELMONT, Calif. — A sport utility vehicle jumped a curb and plowed into a group of California middle school students waiting for a bus, authorities said. Three teenagers were in intensive care Thursday.

About half a dozen children were hit, including several who were trapped under the SUV when it struck a tree outside Ralston Middle School on Wednesday, Police Lt. Dan DeSmidt said. Parents and staff used a jack and collective muscle to lift the SUV and rescue the trapped children, he said.

Fire Chief Doug Fry said 13 children and the SUV's driver were taken to hospitals. Seven went to trauma centers with problems ranging from broken bones to internal injuries, he said.

Later one person said "Nobody needs a vehicle that massive. It can only cause horrific damage with such momentum. It is a terrible public health hazard. If it saves just one life it will be worth it. Think of the children!"

Yah, it's like that....

- Will @ BrinkZone


Posted by: kwflatbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Brink View Post
SUV Hits Several Outside California Middle School

Thursday, May 03, 2007


May 2: An SUV sits outside the Ralston Middle School in Belmont.

BELMONT, Calif. — A sport utility vehicle jumped a curb and plowed into a group of California middle school students waiting for a bus, authorities said. Three teenagers were in intensive care Thursday.

About half a dozen children were hit, including several who were trapped under the SUV when it struck a tree outside Ralston Middle School on Wednesday, Police Lt. Dan DeSmidt said. Parents and staff used a jack and collective muscle to lift the SUV and rescue the trapped children, he said.

Fire Chief Doug Fry said 13 children and the SUV's driver were taken to hospitals. Seven went to trauma centers with problems ranging from broken bones to internal injuries, he said.

Later one person said "Nobody needs a vehicle that massive. It can only cause horrific damage with such momentum. It is a terrible public health hazard. If it saves just one life it will be worth it. Think of the children!"

Yah, it's like that....

- Will @ BrinkZone

What the hell does your post got to do with Could new gun law have prevented massacre?

Lets keep on topic


Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwflatbed View Post
What the hell does your post got to do with Could new gun law have prevented massacre?

Lets keep on topic
I was thinking the same exact thing...


Posted by: Will Brink

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwflatbed View Post
What the hell does your post got to do with Could new gun law have prevented massacre?

Lets keep on topic
He said "lets ban myspace." Ergo, his comment was dircted at the idea that banning tools, etc does not prevent sh&% from happening. I responded with another example of how any tool can be used to kill, and banning said tool (in this case an SUV) also will not prevent such deaths. Perfectly on topic to his comments about such issues.


Posted by: kwflatbed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Brink View Post
He said "lets ban myspace." Ergo, his comment was dircted at the idea that banning tools, etc does not prevent sh&% from happening. I responded with another example of how any tool can be used to kill, and banning said tool (in this case an SUV) also will not prevent such deaths. Perfectly on topic to his comments about such issues.

There is a big difference with the two examples, mywaste is much more of a problem than an SUV.

Like I said before lets keep the thread on subject of gun laws.




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