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Boston College Student: Keep Guns Off Our Campuses

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: fscpd907

Keep guns off our campuses

"Dear BC Community member:

Please know that your cell phone number will be used by the University only in the event of an emergency. For the safety of all on campus, we ask for your cooperation in this important emergency preparedness procedure."

Boston College, among other universities across the country, has responded to last April's shooting at Virginia Tech by adopting emergency alert systems to swiftly notify students and faculty in the event of an emergency. While these text messages would serve as a way to notify students of the imminent situation, the system does not take assume the role of a ballistic vest. So what do we do now?

The recent shootings at Northern Illinois University have revived the state of panic and fear surrounding campus security that began after Virginia Tech. In the aftermath of the shootings, many arguments were advanced in support of legalizing concealed guns on campus for protection and to mitigate these kinds of shootings. The points in support of this argument are perfect examples of the irrationality that hysteria can generate.

David Morris of Texas A&S University wrote an editorial that champions eradicating gun control on campus, and makes a point that the Uniform Crime Report published by the FBI reports a rate of five defensive uses of guns for every criminal use.

Although the counter argument can be made that there would be no need to protect ourselves from guns if there weren't guns to begin with, it is important to differentiate college campuses from society at large in regard to the unresolved gun control debate (this is an argument for a later date).

Campuses of educational institutions, like airports, correctional institutions, and government offices have unique environments and special considerations to take into account. Are we to allow guns in the hands of unstable students that stand between the worlds of responsibility and maturity we see during the week and that drunken and boisterous behavior of the weekend?

The benefits of living on a college campus include the peace of mind students have in not having to worry about the dangers looming beyond the periphery; colleges remain free of metal detectors because we presume that there aren't guns and frankly there is no reason why there should be. Most students expect to live in a place with no need to get a gun for protection or to be concerned with other people that might feel so compelled to bring their properly licensed gun to university grounds.

A simple cost-benefit analysis demonstrates why guns on campus are a bad idea. Historically, there have been statistically low instances of shootings on campuses and allowing guns might create more possibilities of crime.

The stabbing resulting from the rivalry between Briana Jones and Diana Mirambeaux-Saker A&S '09 that erupted over bleached clothes last year on BC's campus for example, could just as easily have been a shooting if the assailant had access to a gun.

Some proponents of guns on campus like the 12,000 members of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC) have also tried then to present shaky points about the benefits of allowing guns on campus. They argue that campuses that allow guns on campus are safer than gun-free zones because Colorado State University and Blue Ridge Community College have allowed concealed carry for several years. In addition, since 2006, Utah has allowed licensed individuals to carry guns on campuses. Not a single act of gun violence has resulted in any of these schools (whereas Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University were both gun-free zones).

The flaw here is not too hard to identify: There are 1558 four-year universities in America and, according to an NPR article, there have been 10 major college shootings since the massacre at Texas A&M 42 years ago.

It's hard to judge the efficacy of concealed weapons on campus against so few cases. Common sense, therefore, should dictate our approach. More guns are a bad idea. Think of how many more shootings would have occurred in the last 42 years if unstable, immature, and sometimes irrational students of these 1558 colleges had carried weapons.

Steven Kazmierczak was described as being a personable and respectable young man who was an award-winning graduate student; it's hard to say how one could have seen this coming. The SCCC claims that "a person's downward spiral toward violence is usually accompanied by numerous warning signs" and yet no one can seem to come up with a trigger for this heinous crime.

As Kazmierczak has proven, it is possible to bamboozle the system to legally obtain a gun in order to commit grand atrocities. While we might not be able to foresee such a terrible scenario we can at least take measures to avert the situation - putting guns in the hands of people like Kazmierczak who seem to be normal, law-abiding citizens, especially on a college campus, would make matters worse.

We cannot completely fault these advocates, as these irrational arguments are a response from a group of bewildered people whose judgment has been muddled from this unexpected swell of crimes on campuses. Thus, arguments supporting guns on campus should not be taken seriously.


Posted by: mpd61

he's absolutely right...Proved it with scientific logic didn't he?
NOT!!!
Maybe this "adult learner" should go to Virginia Tech and give a dissertation there. I'm sure he'd be warmly received!



Posted by: cj3441

I love the people who choose to make themselves sheep in a world of wolves.


Posted by: celticsfan

It's kind of a moot argument anyway, because many BC students are from out of state. And you can forget applying for a Class A with concealed carry in Newton--people will get restrictions (especially young kids) and of course open carry is out of the question. I also would NOT want to have BC students in dorms storing weapons there--not secure IMHO. Same thing for those students living in Brookline or Boston--good luck getting a class A that isn't stamped "target shooting."

So that leaves off-campus, MA residents over 21 who don't reside close to Boston (or got their LTC in another town). More likely staff and graduate students. I have zero problem with that.


Posted by: mikemac64

Quote:
Originally Posted by fscpd907 View Post
The stabbing resulting from the rivalry between Briana Jones and Diana Mirambeaux-Saker A&S '09 that erupted over bleached clothes last year on BC's campus for example, could just as easily have been a shooting if the assailant had access to a gun.
So if Briana or Diana had a gun they would have shot each other? But. since they did not have a gun, they only stabbed each other? Stabbing is OK I guess. Maybe BC should become a "knife free zone".

On an unrelated side note, I am sure BC will be an "Islamic terrorist free zone" as there hasn't been a female virgin there in several decades, never mind 72 of them.


Posted by: rg1283

The gun free zones, have stopped a lot of crime. Next will be the no Robbery Zones, and no Prositution Zones. Then the Danger Zone!!!!!!!!!


Posted by: OPD05

I am currently a student at BC, but never carry on campus. I think for all the headaches it would cause, I will not carry until the point that the University says it is ok with a class A/all lawful.


Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Douche bag from BC View Post
colleges remain free of metal detectors because we presume that there aren't guns...
Whatever helps you sleep well at night...

I bet the students at VT and NIU don't presume there aren't guns on campus, anymore.

My quote from the "Your quote here" thread, "Wisemen learn from other people's mistakes. Fools learn from their own."

It's sad that its coming down to this. Shootings in schools aren't going to end, even if you allow concealed carry. The idea behind concealed carry is to put the fear in someone that they will be killed before they are able to successfully carry out their "mission" (die for nothing) and give the law-abiding citizen/student the power to stop the threat and minimize casualties if the dumbass decides to still go through with it.

If someone wants to shoot up the school, they're going to do it. Making colleges gun free zones only makes their job easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Douche bag from BC View Post
Thus, arguments supporting guns on campus should not be taken seriously.
Thus, arguments supporting gun free zones should not be taken seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OPD05 View Post
I am currently a student at BC...
I'm sorry...


Posted by: GALEWINDS

yeah lets just all hold hands and turn totally liberal


Posted by: SPINMASS

Quote:

yeah lets just all hold hands and turn totally liberal
we can form a circle, sing songs, and chant peace and love.


Posted by: 5-0

Gun Free Zone


Posted by: F1int

Isn't it moot anyway?

M.G.L. Ch. 269 §10 (j):

Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, “firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.

Any officer in charge of an elementary or secondary school, college or university or any faculty member or administrative officer of an elementary or secondary school, college or university failing to report violations of this paragraph shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and punished by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars.


Posted by: new guy

It's not necessarily a moot point. Even if the M.G.L. stands, a college could easily adopt a system where written permission can be obtained by those who are lawfully licensed. If you would've asked me a year or two ago, I would have thought it would invite more problems than it would be worth, but I'm starting to see things a bit differently now.


Posted by: resqjyw0

Here is what UMass-Amherst has been dealing with since last week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.umass.edu/umpd/About_Us/Crime_Alert/

Public Safety Update on Threatening Messages

UMass police continue to investigate incidents of threatening messages found in university buildings. Messages found in Furcolo Hall and Bartlett Hall include similar language, as does as a third message found Monday in a Hills South men's room. A review of facilities across campus has not turned up other related messages.

The university remains open for regular business and classes are being held. Please be alert, and if you have any information that may identify anyone involved in these incidents, call the police at 545-2121. To provide anonymous information in this case, contact the police at 577-TIPS (577-8477) or go to http://www.umass.edu/umpd/About_Us/Anonymous_Witness.

Message Threatening Violence Found in Furcolo Hall

On Monday morning, March 3, a message threatening violence was found in the first-floor men's room of Furcolo Hall. UMass Amherst police responded immediately and have begun an investigation.

While conducting your day-to-day campus business, please be alert and
report any unusual activities to the police. If you have any
information that may identify anyone involved in this incident, call
the police at 545-2121. To provide anonymous information in this
case, contact the police at 577-TIPS (577-8477) or go to
http://www.umass.edu/umpd/About_Us/Anonymous_Witness.

Message Threatening Violence Found in Bartlett Hall

Wednesday, February 27, 2008

This afternoon, a message threatening violence with a weapon was found scrawled in the second-floor men's room of Bartlett Hall. UMass Amherst police responded immediately to the area and launched an investigation. Additional officers are patrolling campus. Anyone in the vicinity between 12:50 and 1 p.m. who observed or heard suspicious activity should contact the police at 413-545-2121. Please remain alert and report any suspicious activity to the police.

Thursday, February 28, 2008

This is a follow-up to the campus alert issued Wednesday regarding
the threatening message found in Bartlett Hall. UMass Police continue
to investigate, but do note that the time frame included in the
threat has passed. The university is open for regular business today
and classes are being held.

While conducting your day-to-day campus business, please be alert and
report any unusual activities to the police. If you have any
information that may identify anyone involved in this incident, call
the police at 545-2121. To provide anonymous information in this
case, contact the police at 577-TIPS (577-8477) or go to
http://www.umass.edu/umpd/About_Us/Anonymous_Witness.
The threat is always there, anywhere, not that it will change anything.


Posted by: chief801

College = Heavy Boozing = Bad Decisions = Danger = Guns don't belong on campus

I'm sure there are some responsible students out there, however, I can think back to my own "Red Sox Riot" days back at UMass and I'm sure glad that there weren't a bunch of gun totin' coeds running around all boozed up and pissed off. Only bad things can happen on campus with guns in the mix...and I'm pro gun ownership!

On a given weekend night, I don't think it is a stretch to say that almost half of the people on campus are drinking. Knowing that, why on earth would anyone want to add guns into the mix Nevermind the regular occurence of suicides on campus. Just my thoughts...


Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:
Originally Posted by chief801 View Post
College = Heavy Boozing = Bad Decisions = Danger = Guns don't belong on campus

I'm sure there are some responsible students out there, however, I can think back to my own "Red Sox Riot" days back at UMass and I'm sure glad that there weren't a bunch of gun totin' coeds running around all boozed up and pissed off. Only bad things can happen on campus with guns in the mix...and I'm pro gun ownership!

On a given weekend night, I don't think it is a stretch to say that almost half of the people on campus are drinking. Knowing that, why on earth would anyone want to add guns into the mix Nevermind the regular occurence of suicides on campus. Just my thoughts...
That's nice. But you make it out to be that every student 21 or over will have a license to carry concealed, and that isn't the case. You forget that a lot of those kids don't have clean records. Of the people that are disqualified because of their backgrounds, (in MA) the person has to pay the $100 for an approved LTC class, $100 for the LTC (it isn't guaranteed the LTC will permit concealed carry) and handguns aren't exactly cheap, considering the financial stability of your typical college student. Add to that the pussies that are anti-gun. That eliminates the vast majority of the 21+ crowd that will be carrying concealed.

As far as the students from out-of-state go, since they are living on campus within the state for 8 months out of the year, require them to be licensed by the state through the local PD or maybe something to that effect so standards to which allow the carrying of a concealed handgun isn't an issue.

And just think, regardless of what the law allows or doesn't allow, that person that is going to shootup the school is going to do so anyway with no regard to the law.

Concealed carry is allowed in Utah. They haven't had a single problem yet.

269-10 does not allow a student to carry any type of dangerous weapon on the school grounds, colleges included. Do you think everyone is weapon free on a college campus? I'm sure there are more kids with pocket knives than we could imagine on the college campuses. I didn't hear about anyone getting stabbed during any of the riots at UMass...or even after the Patriots lost the Super Bowl and the Giants fans went out to celebrate. Some Patriots fans went out to watch the few Giants fans celebrate but they remained peaceful. There is no doubt in my mind that most of the kids on that campus were intoxicated.

You're just being very pessimistic about this, instead of taking a look at the reality of things.


Posted by: KLHNAPD

The idea that only a liberal can be against guns and conservatives are automatically for guns is kinda spurious.

Federal Marshall Virgil Earp and his brother Wyatt Earp enforced complete gun control in Toomstone Arizona, circa 1881. Both were Republicans and as pillars of wild west mythology, bedrock Republican conservatives who believed that a man succeeded or fell by the dint of his own labor, not through government largess.

Shall we keep digging? This is a country whose history is chock-full of contraditions, let's air some more out, eh?


Posted by: resqjyw0

They are not true conservatives...ever hear of a moderate?


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLHNAPD View Post
The idea that only a liberal can be against guns and conservatives are automatically for guns is kinda spurious.

Very good point sir! quite objective and mature.

This is a country whose history is chock-full of contraditions,

Is this a new word? does it mean contrary to tradition?
I went to school at U/Mass Boston... I am edumecated!


Posted by: KLHNAPD

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqjyw0 View Post
They are not true conservatives...ever hear of a moderate?
I'm glad you have a sense of humor...

One of the famous examples of gun control mentioned by the NRA (I'm a member) is Germany in the 1930's. Was Hitler a moderate too?


Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLHNAPD View Post
I'm glad you have a sense of humor...

One of the famous examples of gun control mentioned by the NRA (I'm a member) is Germany in the 1930's. Was Hitler a moderate too?
So you're saying that conservatives in this country are facist totalitarians that are anti-democracy? This is AMERICA, where AMERICAN politics apply. Don't bring Hitler into this. You're comparing apples to oranges, or as I've recently found out, as Delta says, apples to moon rocks.

BTW - Republican and Conservative are not interchangeable if you haven't figured it out yet. Just because a politician has an "R" next to their name doesn't mean they're a "conservative." If you didn't know it, back in the day, the Republican party was actually a liberal party.

I am no political expert, by any stretch of the imagination, especially when it comes down to politics outside of this country, but neither are you. So stop acting like you are.

Do you think you get brownie points for being an NRA member? Sorry to disappoint you. Mitt Romney is too but he is no friend of the gun owners, as far as I'm concerned.

Simply put, you're an idiot.


Posted by: rokurmthr61

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLHNAPD View Post
I'm glad you have a sense of humor...

One of the famous examples of gun control mentioned by the NRA (I'm a member) is Germany in the 1930's. Was Hitler a moderate too?
your a member (so am i) congratulations. If your a member of the NRA is it for political popularity b/c your buddy is a member or are you one of those two face little bitches that push papers? so don't bring hitler to your fight b/c he will just probably kill you and say shut the F**k up.

"MassCops newbee, trainee with Newton Auxiliary Police, and looking for Campus Police work."

WOW congratulations on being somones little bitch! don't try for campus police the politics might get in your way of enforcing the law which by the looks of it already has!

glad that you have traded your brain for douche juice!

now go cry somewhere


Posted by: KLHNAPD

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqjyw0 View Post
So you're saying that conservatives in this country are facist totalitarians that are anti-democracy? This is AMERICA, where AMERICAN politics apply. Don't bring Hitler into this. You're comparing apples to oranges, or as I've recently found out, as Delta says, apples to moon rocks.

BTW - Republican and Conservative are not interchangeable if you haven't figured it out yet. Just because a politician has an "R" next to their name doesn't mean they're a "conservative." If you didn't know it, back in the day, the Republican party was actually a liberal party.

I am no political expert, by any stretch of the imagination, especially when it comes down to politics outside of this country, but neither are you. So stop acting like you are.

Do you think you get brownie points for being an NRA member? Sorry to disappoint you. Mitt Romney is too but he is no friend of the gun owners, as far as I'm concerned.

Simply put, you're an idiot.
Sorry if I paraphrased Gary LaPierre (current Exec VP NRA) about that Germany in the 1930s stuff. You really do have an active imagination and a serviceable knowledge of American political history, kudos...

And no, I'm not saying that Conservatives are bad in this country, I'm sorry you've misconstrued my remarks.

Plainly said, the folks to fear are the ones that attempt to steal our rights in the name of political expediency and the ones who resort to name calling when they've run out of bad ideas.


Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLHNAPD View Post
Sorry if I paraphrased Gary LaPierre (current Exec VP NRA) about that Germany in the 1930s stuff.
I'm not denying that there is a lesson to learn from that. Something similar happened in England which is why our right to keep and bear arms is the second amendment to our country's constitution.

But when it comes down to the politics of it, although Hitler was a "conservative," I don't think he is comparable to the conservatives in the United States. Hitler was a totalitarian/dictator. He did what he did for power. Conservatives are called that, in this country, because they generally try to conserve this country's foundation and the right to keep and bear arms is part of that foundation. Liberals, in this country, want to change everything to create La La Land and generally are anti-gun in hopes of making the world a "safer place." Cross some liberal beliefs with some conservative beliefs, you have yourself a moderate. There are moderates in the Democratic Party and moderates in the Republican Party. That is because they know the vast majority of the people only care about those two parties and if they want a chance at a successful political career, they best join one of them. Are there anti-gun Republicans? Sure there are. Are there pro-gun Democrats? Sure there are. It is typically on a more local level, but they do exist. Are there anti-gun conservatives? In American politics, I don't believe there are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLHNAPD View Post
You really do have an active imagination and a serviceable knowledge of American political history, kudos...
If that's what you want to call it... I believe there are other members here that have a much more "serviceable knowledge of American political history" than I do. They're just hiding right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLHNAPD View Post
Plainly said, the folks to fear are the ones that attempt to steal our rights in the name of political expediency and the ones who resort to name calling when they've run out of bad ideas.
Can't argue with that.


Posted by: kwflatbed

KLHNAPD if you are going to quote any NRA people or articles I would
suggest you do better research.

Harry
50 year Life Endowment NRA Member
NRAILA Political Activist


Posted by: rokurmthr61

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLHNAPD View Post
Sorry if I paraphrased Gary LaPierre (current Exec VP NRA) about that Germany in the 1930s stuff. You really do have an active imagination and a serviceable knowledge of American political history, kudos...

And no, I'm not saying that Conservatives are bad in this country, I'm sorry you've misconstrued my remarks.

Plainly said, the folks to fear are the ones that attempt to steal our rights in the name of political expediency and the ones who resort to name calling when they've run out of bad ideas.

good job not even answering my questions!
Jackass


Posted by: resqjyw0

Humans Vs. Zombies?

by Todd Connor

As we sat inside a student’s tiny dorm room on the UMass campus in Amherst, he pulled out a large suitcase, zipped it open and proudly revealed an arsenal of guns and ammunition.

My producer Meredith and I couldn’t believe it!

Why in the world would he and his roommate waste so much valuable space with a bunch of plastic Nerf guns?

It’s all in the name of a game called Humans Versus Zombies, or HvZ for the cool people.

It’s apparently an addictive form of adult tag.

We heard stories of students wearing camouflage and hiding in the trees to avoid being “tagged” … a Zombie who hid under a pile of leaves in freezing weather at 2:30 in the morning just to nab a Human and even a story of a student jumping out of a second story window to “tag” another student. Some students have been known to hide out in their dorms and never leave until the game is over.

HvZ has been played at college campuses long before the Virginia Tech massacre and variations even before that.

But recently the game has come under scrutiny because of those brightly colored plastic Nerf guns.

Alfred University in western New York was placed under lockdown a few weeks ago after someone called police about a man on campus with a gun.

You guessed it … he was playing Humans vs Zombies, but he made the mistake of concealing his weapon so that only his hand on the pistol grip was visible.

The gun is a bright yellow with orange, black and silver accents. Fully revealed you wouldn’t mistake it for a real gun, but with only the grip showing… it’s apparently possible.

The student didn’t mean to cause any panic, but the administration has now put the game on hold and will likely ban the guns.

Back on the UMass Amherst campus, players still have their guns and so far the administration hasn’t felt the need to restrict them.

The UMass students we spoke to said they don’t want to give them up, but will if it means keeping the game alive.

After all, the humans would still have their balled up socks and marshmallows to ward off the Zombies.

http://onthescene.blogs.foxnews.com/...ns-vs-zombies/


Posted by: Kilvinsky

Most people are not pegged into one line of political thinking only.

I use myself as an example.

When it comes to SOME social issues, I'm moderate. Some you could even call me a bit liberal. Most, I'm quite conservative.

Economic issues, mostly conservative, but moderate on some.

Crime and Punishment, I am a fascist.

I don't belong to the NRA and do believe in very limited gun control.

Our beliefs don't necessarilly make us right or wrong, unless you disagree with ME, then you're very wrong. Aaaaahahahaha. Nah, even I'M wrong sometimes.


Posted by: kttref

College kids still play cops and robbers...er...I mean Humans and Zombies??? Wow...I'm betting those kids don't get laid too often...


Posted by: CRASHPD

This is an obvious touchy subject for the many who are invovled. Now there have been some references made to Hitler, Ted Nugent, President Ronald Reagen, Wyatt & Virgil Earp - Ect, Ect!!! which frankly doesn't make much sense no matter what spin you're trying to put on it! Now who ever added the M.G.L. Ch.269 10 (J) for everybody to read is brilliant. It's simple for everybody to understand and because it's in plain black and white, the conversation should end at that, but....... Now, at Virginia Tech on that Faithfull day would a student, faculty of staff member who had a lawfull right to carry a firearm saved life's? The answer is YES!!! Now would this particular student, faculty or staff member who ever happend to be carrying on that particular day been in the exact lecture hall were the masacare occured? Be in that position to save lifes? Well that's another debate. I believe that the more weapons that are allowed on any particular campus the chances go up 10 fold for more serious incidents to occur. With this said I hope everybody continues to stay safe and may we all never have to deal with what happend on that very sad day in American History. God bless all victims and their families who have been affected by gun violence. Take Care!!!


Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRASHPD View Post
Now who ever added the M.G.L. Ch.269 10 (J) for everybody to read is brilliant. It's simple for everybody to understand and because it's in plain black and white, the conversation should end at that...
Yes, because there has never been a law has ever been amended or repealed...


Posted by: rokurmthr61

Quote:
Originally Posted by resqjyw0 View Post
Yes, because there has never been a law has ever been amended or repealed...
agreed


Posted by: Wolfman

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRASHPD View Post
I believe that the more weapons that are allowed on any particular campus the chances go up 10 fold for more serious incidents to occur.
Allow me to engage in some name calling and then spew my "bad ideas".

I believe that the only reason you pulled the "10 fold" number out of your ass is because it was right there next to your head. I suppose you also believe that there were shootouts on every corner in every town in the Old West. And if you place your detached molar beneath your pillow at night, a fluttering apparition will replace it with legal tender whilst you slumber.

Hard facts and real numbers debunk your misguided belief. There are campuses that allow legal concealed carry. No carnage. There are "gun free" zones that guarantee a smörgåsbord of helpless victims. This is where the massacres occur. Refute that with something more than speculation and emotion. When was the last shooting spree at a gun range, police station or firearms show?

Also, please remember that there is no such thing as gun violence. A firearm is an inanimate object. It does not think or reason. It is a simple mechanical tool. It cannot be happy. It cannot entrench itself in sullen woes nor ponder the wonders of creation or mortality. It cannot be violent. Blaming a gun for violence makes as much sense as blaming Pampers for the stink coming out of Junior's crib.

The Constitution does not "grant" citizens the right to keep and bear arms. It acknowledges it as a preexisting right that shall not be infringed. What you suggest, in the disarming of our students, or faculty, our citizens is to strip this right from someone who has done no wrong and leave them to the wolves. You're some sort of police officer, aren't you? You don't get to pick and choose which rights you will respect. You will respect them all, or maybe it's time to find a new line of work.


Posted by: rokurmthr61

i think its time for a poll!

anyone know how to start one?


Posted by: Kilvinsky

Quote:
Originally Posted by rokurmthr61 View Post
i think its time for a poll!

anyone know how to start one?
Ah, this whole issue was already discussed and no one is about to change their view. Why bother with a poll?

But, what the hell, I just won't bother responding.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Also, please remember that there is no such thing as gun violence. A firearm is an inanimate object. It does not think or reason. It is a simple mechanical tool. It cannot be happy. It cannot entrench itself in sullen woes nor ponder the wonders of creation or mortality. It cannot be violent.
http://montego.roughwheelers.com/gun_cam.html


Posted by: CRASHPD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
Allow me to engage in some name calling and then spew my "bad ideas".

I believe that the only reason you pulled the "10 fold" number out of your ass is because it was right there next to your head. I suppose you also believe that there were shootouts on every corner in every town in the Old West. And if you place your detached molar beneath your pillow at night, a fluttering apparition will replace it with legal tender whilst you slumber.

Hard facts and real numbers debunk your misguided belief. There are campuses that allow legal concealed carry. No carnage. There are "gun free" zones that guarantee a smörgåsbord of helpless victims. This is where the massacres occur. Refute that with something more than speculation and emotion. When was the last shooting spree at a gun range, police station or firearms show?

Also, please remember that there is no such thing as gun violence. A firearm is an inanimate object. It does not think or reason. It is a simple mechanical tool. It cannot be happy. It cannot entrench itself in sullen woes nor ponder the wonders of creation or mortality. It cannot be violent. Blaming a gun for violence makes as much sense as blaming Pampers for the stink coming out of Junior's crib.

The Constitution does not "grant" citizens the right to keep and bear arms. It acknowledges it as a preexisting right that shall not be infringed. What you suggest, in the disarming of our students, or faculty, our citizens is to strip this right from someone who has done no wrong and leave them to the wolves. You're some sort of police officer, aren't you? You don't get to pick and choose which rights you will respect. You will respect them all, or maybe it's time to find a new line of work.
CRASH PD

1st off I think you need a hug. You obviously didn’t read my whole post and took out of it what you wanted to hear. The 10 fold didn’t come out of my ass it wouldn’t fit; I kept in my locker and dusted it off when I knew this was the time to use it. Before I had written 10 fold I believe I wrote the chances, I repeat the chances could go up 10 fold of more serious incidents happening! I guess you’re the only educated person on this site Wolfman! I guess supposing and believing goes hand & hand, genius. Do you seriously quote others or do you have any thoughts of your own? I’ll give you a hint. You can sleep, dream or become your own apparition and ponder what ever whilst you slumber, dumb ass! I mean come on I was just leaving an opinion, not slamming anyone for ones believes it not about guns being violent tools, in which they are, and it’s the deviant use of these tools which keeps some communities and victims of these tools sleepless at night. So as I continue to entrench myself and ponder the creation of the wonder of the gun!!!! Are you seriously comparing stinky diapers to gun violence? You haven’t got a clue. There is no comparison. I’ll tell you that I’ll continue to put my life on the line day in and day out to keep the location in which I work as safe as safe can be. In all seriousness you need a reality check and remember were on a little planet called Earth, so continue to be pissed off, or you can wake up face reality and embrace it, I hope you choose the latter. Do these wolves you want to protect yourself against, commit a crime with an inanimate object which would be violent? Just a thought for you to ponder. Stay safe to you and to everybody else.


Posted by: 5-0

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRASHPD View Post
CRASH PD

1st off I think you need a hug. You obviously didn’t read my whole post and took out of it what you wanted to hear.
I read your original post, and am still trying to figure out what side of the issue you are on.


Posted by: CRASHPD

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5-0 View Post
I read your original post, and am still trying to figure out what side of the issue you are on.
Hey 5-0 how have you been? it's been a while. I'm on the right side of the law. I guess what I meant is that if a person is responsible enough to receive a class-A to carry then it's their right to carry that fire arm were the law state's you can carry it. My point was that the chance could go up 10 fold for a gun related incidents, wether its an ex-lover trying to get some sort of revenge, A picked on student who cant take it anymore and finally snaps an murders all who have picked on him, ect, ect. Like every town or city, some colleges are just as similar. Crime can happen anywere at any time adding more guns on campuses isn't just given a card carring member the chance to defend themselfs it adds the chances of more serious crimes affecting any said college! Thats all I meant. I hope everbody can under stand that. And with my last post I was just defending myslef from the personal attacks. I dont attack anybody for their beliefs. I just give an oppinion or at times advice. just like everybody is suppose to do on these sites. Again take care 5-0 and be safe!!!


Posted by: resqjyw0

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5-0 View Post
I read your original post, and am still trying to figure out what side of the issue you are on.
I think he is on the side that wants to take my guns away in the name of "safety"...


Posted by: 5-0

I see what you are saying, but with a college being a microcosm of society (for the most part) wouldn't you also have to believe that responsible gun ownership in a city or town also would increase the chance of gun violence 10 fold? I'm not sure if I agree that there is a correlation. The biggest challenge that I see on a college campus is the securing of weapons. The way that these kids secure their rooms makes our border policy look like a tight operation.

Where does that leave us? Maybe with the ability for responsible gun owners who are licensed to carry on campus, but not in the dorms? That would still be awkward because the VT incident actually started in the dorms, so how would they protect themselves? Maybe the campus police department operates an area they can secure their weapons at night? That would create a scarlet letter effect though when kids went to check in and out... So, maybe the system is working right now (as flawed as it is). Whatever the system, at least we (we being police officers) don't have to worry about it.

Quote:
M.G.L. Ch. 269 §10 (j):

Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, “firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.

Any officer in charge of an elementary or secondary school, college or university or any faculty member or administrative officer of an elementary or secondary school, college or university failing to report violations of this paragraph shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and punished by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars.
I don't know what you are claiming this makes moot... All it says it that state law prohibits it, unless the school authorizes it?

Also, here is a link to the author of 'More Guns Less Crime' blog:

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/


Posted by: CRASHPD

5-0 thanks for the information. I agree with everything you said. I guess I wasn't completey looking at it from all sides. Another thing, is that most Colleges have in their rule books a weapons violation section were everything from nun-chucks, knifes, throwing stars and guns are prohibted from school grounds, amongst other things. So thank you for opening up my eyes as they were half closed. I'll check out the new reading material as soon as possible. Take care!!!!




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