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Qualifications, Deputy and Police

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: bcibob670

This quote is from another thread but I felt some may have a misconception of some Full time Deputies resumes, hiring or Qualifications and whether or not Deputies can make credible statements on law enforcement matters in massachusetts. It is my hope that there are open minds out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pahapoika
...............
officers have to
take a civil service test
get through the interview and physical
go though the academy
make their one year probation
work midnights
weekends
holidays
pick the left over vacation weeks nobody wants
and deal with the worst of the worst
for this our family life suffers along with our mental and physical health.
then along comes some check writing hack and picks a fight with the staties.
he's going to get zero respect because he deserves none. someone wants to throw their coming out party as the sheriffs blow boy ? God love ya !
just don't expect anyone to buy the crap your selling.

I know your words are directed toward the so-called "hack" and not me personally but it should be noted that there are a few sheriff's deputies that have similiar experiences as the afformentioned officers as you listed and the conviction of true LEO's as a result of real law enforcement work and sacrifice.So, before you say it... yes, they should be working in a "real police department" But would you really turn down working the streets for a sheriff's department in Massachusetts if current circumstances did not make police department work viable for you ?


Please consider the following when generalizing about deputies. My info refers only to my cnty Ply. FT deputies is years old but may still be relevant

officers have to
Do deputies?

take a civil service test
NO.
get through the interview and physical
street deputies (in my county) I am aware of did have to go through interview and a medical physical for initial hire and a physical fitness test every year (my understanding is that most police don't have yearly PT tests, let me know if I am wrong)

go though the academy
YES R/I minimum many like myself have military basic as well
make their one year probation
YES
work midnights
weekends
holidays
pick the left over vacation weeks nobody wants
YES, YES, YES, YES,

and deal with the worst of the worst
NO we don't deal with the safety issues that officers do from dirtbag perps, but, a select few individual deputies deal with more Crime scenes than any single officer in the commonwealth.

for this our family life suffers along with our mental and physical health.
YES, you can say that again.


then along comes some check writing hack and picks a fight with the staties.

he's going to get zero respect because he deserves none. someone wants to throw their coming out party as the sheriffs blow boy ? God love ya !

just don't expect anyone to buy the crap your selling.

There are many of us in the sheriff's dept. who don't like hacks or anyone getting titles who didnt put their time in and work their way up. Especially Hacks who don't realize what it is like to get shot at, turn to the fire and take action that leads to convictions or see a brother LEO you just worked with last week dying. Hacks who never worked the street with Leo's and don't know that Rules, policy and procedure don't cover every circumstance, so you do you best in the miliseconds you have and pray some Hack trying to make a name doesn't write you up for something any other real LEO would do. We all know Hacks Stink up the whole department, but most of us don't have a choice with who we work.

The point is this, there may be more commonalities between LEO's than you realize. Despite the issue that Mass Sheriff's departments are not sufficiently staffed or structured to support Real street deputy LEO's there are Deputy LEO's that are worthy of having their opinions taken seriously and respected. Knowing that may allow for better communication and understanding.


Posted by: Delta784

Any police officer in Massachusetts with a clue has a lot of respect for corrections officers, be they state, county, or federal. It's a tough, thankless job. However, it is their job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcibob670
Despite the issue that Mass Sheriff's departments are not sufficiently staffed or structured to support Real street deputy LEO's there are Deputy LEO's that are worthy of having their opinions taken seriously and respected. Knowing that may allow for better communication and understanding.
Deputies don't work the street in this state because that's not their job (see above). Like it or not, the sole responsibilities of sheriffs and their deputies in Massachusetts (other than civil process) are the care, custody, and transport of inmates either awaiting trial or serving a HOC sentence.

That's it.

Why is that so hard for some people to understand?


Posted by: HELPMe

^^Agreed, I have no problem with anyone being a sheriff, but your primary duty in THIS STATE is to perform the duties of a corrections officer. Doing a tour in a jail/prison is tough and I respect all the CO's that do it. Do a search on this forum, and you will receive the large majorities view point.


Posted by: SinePari

Bob, your passion for your job is undeniable. Though many towns in Plymouth County may love to use your services, they are basically to either a) not sufficiently staffing their own department with investigators, or b) not using the DA's office investigators already providing that service with many local or state officers assigned there.

As stated above, that's how it works in THIS state.


Posted by: csauce777

Believe it or not, most if not all of the towns on Cape Cod also use Barnstable County's BCI unit for all of their crime scenes. Plymouth County isnt the only one...


Posted by: PaulKersey

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcibob670
, but, a select few individual deputies deal with more Crime scenes than any single officer in the commonwealth.
Please elaborate, as this does not happen in my county. I wasn't aware that it happened in this state.

I can fully understand, and appreciate, a department having their own CSI's, and any other unit for that matter, as they are the primary investigators.

I don't understand why one county unit {Sheriffs} would start a crime scene unit, when there is already a county unit in place {DA's}.
Did the area departments complain that they weren't properly served by the DA's office? Was it department rivalry? For funding, prestige etc?
I'm just curious.

Are the sheriffs working homicide scenes? If so, the DA's office investigators would be involved anyway. How is that working out?


Posted by: dlfowler

I've been reading the messages regarding Sheriff's Deputies and their duties. Regardless of the uniform PO, Sheriff, Corrections we are all brothers in uniform. If you need backup in a hurry I don't think you are going to be concerned with what the shoulder patch says.

Let's all get over this holier than thou BS and treat each other with the respect deserved when we put on the uniform.


Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Plymouth County BCI is a unique service that offers all PDs in Plymouth Cty Crime Scene Services. PCS also supplied every PD in Plymouth County with a live scan machine free that is ties to their machine. Let's say you have a B&E, or any other crime that you want them to respond and take prints, they will take the prints, put them in the AFIS system, so you might get a hit on a suspect a year you arrest a year from now for unlicensed operation to a B&E or worse. That is a great service, all the PDs are on board and have no problem with BCI guys or even their K( guys. Why that is?
Because PCSD DOES NOT stop cars and write tickets. If they see something, they have the capability in their cruisers to talk to every PD in the county and request permission to sop it, local PD responds and takes it over, everyone is happy. Unlike Worcester County where they are trying very hard to be DA police. PCSD also offers a 24 hr lockup for any PD in the county, drop them off and they even bring them to the appropriate court for you in the AM. That is why they get along with the PDs and it's a win/win solution.


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfowler
I've been reading the messages regarding Sheriff's Deputies and their duties. Regardless of the uniform PO, Sheriff, Corrections we are all brothers in uniform. If you need backup in a hurry I don't think you are going to be concerned with what the shoulder patch says.

Let's all get over this holier than thou BS and treat each other with the respect deserved when we put on the uniform.
WRONG! I'll take my chances and get my ass kicked while waiting for my real back-up.

After all I'm not stopping to help you out under similar circumstances.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfowler
I've been reading the messages regarding Sheriff's Deputies and their duties. Regardless of the uniform PO, Sheriff, Corrections we are all brothers in uniform. If you need backup in a hurry I don't think you are going to be concerned with what the shoulder patch says.
I don't know why this is so hard to understand; the responsibilites of sheriffs and their deputies are civil process and corrections. That's it. If the sheriffs are doing their job, the chances of them being in a position to back me up are exactly zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfowler
Let's all get over this holier than thou BS and treat each other with the respect deserved when we put on the uniform.
Respect is earned, not given, and I have zero respect for someone who writes a check to the sheriff's campaign fund so they can circumnavigate the legitimate police hiring process and play cop for fun.


Posted by: HousingCop

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94c
WRONG! I'll take my chances and get my ass kicked while waiting for my real back-up.
After all I'm not stopping to help you out under similar circumstances
Wow, after reading that quote, you will continue to be a piece of shit in my book. I thought you were a smart, funny and a bit witty poster before this last remark. Please retract that statement. It's just wrong to say that you'll sit idely by while a SD or DOC employee gets their ass kicked by some scumbag while you have the means to prevent or stop it.


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by HousingCop
Wow, after reading that quote, you will continue to be a piece of shit in my book. I thought you were a smart, funny and a bit witty poster before this last remark. Please retract that statement. It's just wrong to say that you'll sit idely by while a SD or DOC employee gets their ass kicked by some scumbag while you have the means to prevent or stop it.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but where I work the DOC doesn't do police work and the SD shouldn't be either.

Maybe I'll clarify a bit.

If the DOC or SD get into a jam, sure I'll help. But if they are out there playing cop when they shouldn't then they are on their own.

That's just the way it is in some parts of this state.

When an SD willingly gets involved in police labor disputes then a scab is a scab. They are non-union and therefore have no respect for the word union.


Posted by: pahapoika

my apologies if that post was taken as a slight to county correction officers. nothing could be further from the truth.

i only spelled out the process to illustrate the difference between 9-5 M/F, zero experience , front office desk jockeys and the men and women that work inside.

these "posers" only hurt the reputation of the real officers that wear the uniform. would also like to state that i am not some kind of tough guy and hope that isn't the way these posts come across.

my only beef is with management and their efforts to pass off their "kids" as legitimate officers.

peace my brothers


Posted by: PBC FL Cop

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94c
If the DOC or SD get into a jam, sure I'll help. But if they are out there playing cop when they shouldn't then they are on their own.
That's sad and if that's what you truly believe, then your the one who's playing cop. No real cop would ever drive passed an LEO in distress.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop
That's sad and if that's what you truly believe, then your the one who's playing cop. No real cop would ever drive passed an LEO in distress.
Maybe he's going through some sort of caffeine withdrawals, or some other South Beach Diet stress...you know, the new year, the "new you" thingy.

Although this thread was started about "capable" investigators assigned to the sheriff, I don't believe anyone here would drive by someone in a jam on the side of the road.

Think about that old deputy that got killed transporting a prisoner down if Florida. At one point, there must have been a physical struggle before the weapon was taken doing his job: transporting prisoners.


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop
That's sad and if that's what you truly believe, then your the one who's playing cop. No real cop would ever drive passed an LEO in distress.
I never said I'd drive passed an LEO in distress.

I would drive by a political hack playing cop who can't handle a simple operating after revocation or stolen registration plate without calling the police and expect them to do something about it.

Don't play cop and you won't get hurt.

It seems you're forgetting the fact that there's a major difference between deputies in Florida who are real cops and the hacks up here who put on a uniform, get a cruiser, and do a traffic stop that they have no capabilities of handling.

It's no different than the Best Buy door man doing traffic stops.

In all honesty, I couldn't stand by and watch the guy die.
I'd get involved when I thought he had enough.

If they don't get it the easy way then maybe they'll get it the hard way.


Posted by: BB-59

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94c
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but where I work the DOC doesn't do police work and the SD shouldn't be either.

Maybe I'll clarify a bit.

If the DOC or SD get into a jam, sure I'll help. But if they are out there playing cop when they shouldn't then they are on their own.

That's just the way it is in some parts of this state.

When an SD willingly gets involved in police labor disputes then a scab is a scab. They are non-union and therefore have no respect for the word union.
Who ever I witnessed in a jamb I would help. If there patch on there shoulder is different then the one I have things will be sorted out later.

I have stated it before on this site that I feel the primary job of the SD is "care, custody, and security of inmates and civil process. I have also stated that until the law is ammended to remove any "grey areas", that eventually something bad will happen.

Before passing buy and leaving a uniformed officer "on his own", think how you would feel if a SD vehicle passed you by if you were in a jam. When rendering assistance is reduced to what union you or someone else belongs too, we all need to step back and take a breath.


Posted by: pahapoika

think how you would feel if a SD vehicle passed you by if you were in a jam.

that situation actually happened a couple of years ago and thankfully nothing happened , but the sheriff got a nasty call and the transportation deputies were interviewed. they stated on previous encounters they were told to go f'- themselves so they made it a point never to interfere with officers from that department.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB-59
When rendering assistance is reduced to what union you or someone else belongs too, we all need to step back and take a breath.
I would never leave someone with a badge hanging, but if you're the member of a corrections union and you engage in activities that negatively effect a police union, don't be surprised if you become persona non grata to that police union.


Posted by: honor12900

94c
"In all honesty, I couldn't stand by and watch the guy die.
I'd get involved when I thought he had enough."
If they don't get it the easy way then maybe they'll get it the hard way.[/quote]

Well thats a relief. If I get into something bad with a prisoner on the side of the road you will help just before I'm dead? Thats a hell of an attitude.
I do agree with some of the things you have said about Deputies (corrections officers) in the past but damn. Deputies in this state do belong operating the jails and transporting prisoners. Just remember you are a police officer (I think). Always do the right thing you will sleep better and can look at yourself in the mirror.


Posted by: BB-59

Quote:
Originally Posted by honor12900
94c
"In all honesty, I couldn't stand by and watch the guy die.
I'd get involved when I thought he had enough."
If they don't get it the easy way then maybe they'll get it the hard way.
Well thats a relief. If I get into something bad with a prisoner on the side of the road you will help just before I'm dead? Thats a hell of an attitude.
I do agree with some of the things you have said about Deputies (corrections officers) in the past but damn. Deputies in this state do belong operating the jails and transporting prisoners. Just remember you are a police officer (I think). Always do the right thing you will sleep better and can look at yourself in the mirror.[/quote]

I agree the time to intervene is not when the deputy looses his gun or "had enough", but immediately. Besides being unprofessional think of the civil repuccussions to both the officer that sat there and watched and the department he or she worked for.

I think we all agree (except for few), what the primary focus of the SD in MA are. Keep in mind something that many of the SD use cruisers to transport prisoners especially on med runs to hospitals when using a the regular vans would not be needed.

My point is that while you may think they are political hacks playing LE, they are actually corrections personal transporting an inmate. Lets all agree that if we see anyone in a uniform in a confrontation that officer safety comes first, personal feelings and unions come second.


Posted by: mpd61

[quote=94c]I would drive by a political hack playing cop who can't handle a simple operating after revocation or stolen registration plate without calling the police and expect them to do something about it.


In all honesty, I couldn't stand by and watch the guy die.
I'd get involved when I thought he had enough.
[/
quote]

WTF????????????????????

1. Can you really tell a political hack from the FT former C.O. union guy by looking at him?
2. What's enough; slap? scratch? soft tissue damage? broken bone? CNS disruption? Just wondering, YIKES!!!!!!!!!



Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd61
[1. Can you really tell a political hack from the FT former C.O. union guy by looking at him?
2. What's enough; slap? scratch? soft tissue damage? broken bone? CNS disruption? Just wondering, YIKES!!!!!!!!!

1. Full time former C.O. union guys doing patrol is like the Easter Bunny (doesn't exist.) Only the political, contributing hacks who never see the inside of the walls gets sent to the police academy and drive patrol cars.

And the only way they keep those positions is by selling "x" number of fundraising tickets a year.

2. It would have to be a case by case basis.

Again, don't stop cars, come up with a situation you can't handle, and then call the police.

911 is reserved for citizens in need. Not wannabees who don't know what to do with a revoked operator.

I'll have to admit things have changed over the last couple of years, maybe because they got the message.

But one summer we received 3 calls for a deputy needing assistance

1. An OUI
2. A revoked operator
3. a stolen tag on the car

There's enough work to do without some hack trying to play cop and then expecting someone else to do the work for him.
Not going to happen. Ever.


Posted by: truthbetold

Hey 94c If I was a Deputy Sheriff (which I am not) and I was in a situation and I needed help which you chose to drive by and think you are someone special or better and didn't help I would find out who you were and bitch slap you. Come down off the soapbox superhero. Take the cape off. You are not impressing anyone here with your heroism. You would also loose your job if you did this. Remember that oath you took. It did not give you the right to play god it gave you the right to serve the community. Guess what whatever the patch says they are part of the community. Whether they have that right or not to pull someone over you are obliged to help out. I guess playing god for you is like them playing cop. You work for a town or state 94c not the Hall Of Justice. This isn't a cartoon. Get a hold of yourself and your ego.


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthbetold
Hey 94c If I was a Deputy Sheriff (which I am not) and I was in a situation and I needed help which you chose to drive by and think you are someone special or better and didn't help I would find out who you were and bitch slap you. Come down off the soapbox superhero. Take the cape off. You are not impressing anyone here with your heroism. You would also loose your job if you did this. Remember that oath you took. It did not give you the right to play god it gave you the right to serve the community. Guess what whatever the patch says they are part of the community. Whether they have that right or not to pull someone over you are obliged to help out. I guess playing god for you is like them playing cop. You work for a town or state 94c not the Hall Of Justice. This isn't a cartoon. Get a hold of yourself and your ego.
1. You'd have to prove I saw something in the first place, good luck. I was preoccupied at the time.

2. The "I support Sheriffs/Glodis forum" is on the other side of town.

3. You ain't bitch slapping anybody.

4. Most of your posts support Sheriffs. That speaks for itself.


Posted by: csauce777

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94c
WRONG! I'll take my chances and get my ass kicked while waiting for my real back-up.

After all I'm not stopping to help you out under similar circumstances.
I know several of the PCSD BCI deputies on a personal and professional level. Some I work with, and speak to on almost a daily basis. Every BCI Deputy in Plymouth County that I know or have had experiences with, are not stepping on anyone's toes. In the event that a BCI deputy finds himself behind an obvious OUI, they simply call the respective town and advise them of the situation. They arent out stopping cars "to play cop." While I cant speak for everyone, I can say that the vast majority of towns in Plymouth County like having the BCI guys around, and in fact welcome their presence during "hot" calls. They do not jump calls, or "play police," they simply provide the assistance asked for.

In the event that you find yourself "getting your ass kicked," you are ignorant if you refuse assistance from a deputy passing by. Like I said, I cant speak for everyone, but the officers I know in my area, have no issue with BCI.


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by csauce777
. They arent out stopping cars "to play cop." While I cant speak for everyone, I can say that the vast majority of towns in Plymouth County like having the BCI guys around, and in fact welcome their presence during "hot" calls. They do not jump calls, or "play police," they simply provide the assistance asked for.
That right there speaks volumes. But when a new sheriff comes to town and tries to create his own kingdom, you can't sit back and allow that to happen.

My issue isn't with BCI guys or guys working behind the walls. Many times the civil guys have called for assistance and that is not a problem.

But you can never, ever allow a politician to create his own police department.

You can't stop a car where I work without another unit swinging by even just to "swing by." You don't see the deputies patrolling like they used to so the odds of them backing me up are nil. Let's keep it that way.

This is not the South and this is not the West.
I refuse to acknowledge deputies as law enforcement.

That's my opinion and since this is America, it's one of the few things I have left.


Posted by: truthbetold

I can see it now on the witness stand:

Attorney: So you are saying that you did not see something on the side of the road where the deputy was getiing beat up with the blue lights flashing?

94c: But sir I have a full time academy and he is a hack sign holder. I will not help him because he is playing cop and deserves what he gets. You see your honor he is a scab who is non union. Some guys on masscops support me and I will bring them in as witnesses that they are not "real cops".

94c I am not here supporting sheriffs as patrolman in any way. I don't care to be honest with you. I have my job and it is not in jepordy. I am not a sheriff"s employee but I was and not ashamed of it. I just didn't like what you said because it is insulting to the rest of us "officers". Whether I like the guy patroling or not would not factor into my decision to help out. You know why? BECAUSE IT IS MY JOB TO HELP! I don't forget where I come from and an academy didn't make me someone better than the guys I did work with.

Hence the name truthbetold. I read this every day and I post when I feel there is a need to respond to something. I use this website as an informational tool also. These threads give me some humor. I just don't know of another officer that is as much as an ass in arrogance to say something like what you said. Sorry superman just my opinion. But an opinion is probably wrong in your eyes. I mean you are god right?


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthbetold
I can see it now on the witness stand:

Attorney: So you are saying that you did not see something on the side of the road where the deputy was getiing beat up with the blue lights flashing?

94c: But sir I have a full time academy and he is a hack sign holder. I will not help him because he is playing cop and deserves what he gets. You see your honor he is a scab who is non union. Some guys on masscops support me and I will bring them in as witnesses that they are not "real cops".

94c I am not here supporting sheriffs as patrolman in any way. I don't care to be honest with you. I have my job and it is not in jepordy. I am not a sheriff"s employee but I was and not ashamed of it. I just didn't like what you said because it is insulting to the rest of us "officers". Whether I like the guy patroling or not would not factor into my decision to help out. You know why? BECAUSE IT IS MY JOB TO HELP! I don't forget where I come from and an academy didn't make me someone better than the guys I did work with.

Hence the name truthbetold. I read this every day and I post when I feel there is a need to respond to something. I use this website as an informational tool also. These threads give me some humor. I just don't know of another officer that is as much as an ass in arrogance to say something like what you said. Sorry superman just my opinion. But an opinion is probably wrong in your eyes. I mean you are god right?
You done? Good.

Screw any deputy that wants to play cop.


Posted by: truthbetold

You are a douche.


Posted by: bcibob670

I was hoping to get better understanding and communication from my post. After reading all these responses I am not sure if I achieved that.

94c , As a retired D/S from BCI I would really like to have heart to heart with what ever deputies who pissed you off so bad. To clarify my previous post, in massachusetts I don't believe there should be Street deputies except for k-9 and BCI. To further I think BCI should have the unmarked cars. The fact is that Many civil or detail only deputies don't know how to handle some situations and it makes the rest of us look bad. Additionally, I am going to guess the PCSD bci budget is close to 1.2 million now and I have always wondered who they got away with financially supporting BCI. The C O's did complain about it and they were pacified by making it (being a CO) a requirement to being in BCI. As a previous poster said BCI is a unique entity in the plymouth and barnstable counties. I'll agree that there are serious questions as to whether a sheriffs dept. should have a BCI unit and if that 1.2 million could be spread among the 26 town PDs of Plymouth county. Those serious questions and the hostility that goes with it should be addressed to the police chiefs and union reps of the 26 towns (at least for plymouth county). The Idea of taking out your hostility on a fellow LEO in need to me is reprehensible.

We as working FT deputies ( I am retired) have a close working relationship with many po's because we know our place in the order of things. We are there to serve the police departments and make LESS work for them. We had one guy who didnt see it that way, the PD complained and that deputy was fired from BCI (rightfully so in my opinion). I am sorry to hear your county doesn't have that relationship between deputies/ chief and police union members.

You are absolutely correct that sheriffs departments should concentrate solely on corrections, care and custody as their primary duty and should not venture into other venues until that is done satisfactorially. I can't tell you how PCSD affords around 1.2 million for BCI. But I can tell you that PC BCI was started back in 1950's by state statute as a police school for forensics I think and it morphed into a forensics service for the cities and towns over time (I am not sure how). When the county no longer had any money to operate BCI the town PD chief pleaded with the sheriff's dept to take it over and the sheriff was happy to do so. At least that is my understanding of it. the point here is that at least in plymouth county Deputies at BCI are not a result of Sheriff's grab for power.

As I said before Sheriff's departements in Massachusetts should not have deputies out on the street unless the Jail is run well and fully staffed, the deputies are properly trained, gone though FTO and have the approval of the police unions affected just for starters.

I didn't want this thread to get into a pissing match nor did I want it to be a circle jerk. Simply put, you can't judge a book by its cover. You will know BS when you hear it (like str8tjaket).

IF YOU EVER FAIL TO AID A FELLOW LEO AND HE DIES YOU WILL REGRET IT AND IT WILL HAUNT YOU. maybe not now, maybe not in a year. If you ever saw an officer (especially one you worked with) diing like I have and regretted not getting there in time, you would know what I am talking about. If you were ever shot at (wasn't hit) like I was, went after the perp, detained 3 people and called for PD backup and they were there in 20 seconds backing you up , you would always aid and assist a fellow LEO . If you ever saved a life by preventing a suicide like I have you would aid and assist another LEO, because maybe the next life saved would be a loved one of yours. So, you go ahead and don't do anything to aid a deputy in dire need while the public is watching and don't be surprised when public feels it is open season on LEO's.
E pluribus unum


Posted by: Loyal

We don't use a BCI. Many places inexplicably have them taking pics of all kinds of moot things-we take our own photographs and prints. They do no security details, do not patrol or "play police officer" here. The ones I've met all seem friendly and professional.
I respectfully disagree with BCIBOB about all bci guys having to have been correction officers; there is at least one in plymouth that owned a fish market just before getting on bci; he was hired by a previous sheriff, maybe things have changed.
Although I agree that there is zero need for deputies to "patrol" anywhere but jail property, it is unfair to consider them all to be hacks. That may be true with the vast majority of the part timers, but is absolutely false with the K9 officers and Transportation guys.
I'm curious what 94C's specific job is. I've worked as a campus officer, a DOC Sgt and as a municipal police officer in a large department; I know of no officer in any of those fields that would drive past anyone in distress. If he is a legitimate officer, I believe he would stop - despite his rant.


Posted by: SinePari

Well, Bob, unfortunately K-9 and BCI falls under the "patrol" category. So how does one's career path matriculate from corrections officer (if they actually did the job) to forensics or criminal investigations? I'm not saying you can't learn BCI techniques, but I don't see the correlation between working a cell block and lifting prints and snapping polaroids at a crime scene.

Again, my thoughts are the locals are cheapening their departments by not having enough staff to use their own detectives, or not using the ones assigned to the DAs office (who have very deep pockets by the way).


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
Well, Bob, unfortunately K-9 and BCI falls under the "patrol" category. So how does one's career path matriculate from corrections officer (if they actually did the job) to forensics or criminal investigations? I'm not saying you can't learn BCI techniques, but I don't see the correlation between working a cell block and lifting prints and snapping polaroids at a crime scene.

Again, my thoughts are the locals are cheapening their departments by not having enough staff to use their own detectives, or not using the ones assigned to the DAs office (who have very deep pockets by the way).
Personally, I would be embarrassed to work for a police department that had to rely on hacks & corrections officers to lift fingerprints and take photographs of crime scenes.

That's the job of the P-O-L-I-C-E, not the sheriff's department.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcibob670
I can't tell you how PCSD affords around 1.2 million for BCI.
I can; it's because the state financially bails out the PCSD just about every year. When the state money runs out, all the local PD's who signed a deal with the devil will be left without a seat when the music stops, because Plymouth County BCI will be the first casualty.

As I said; the sheriff's people can run back inside the jail walls when things get inconvenient, and they no longer want to play cop. We (police) have no such luxury.

Get it now?


Posted by: csauce777

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcibob670
The C O's did complain about it and they were pacified by making it (being a CO) a requirement to being in BCI.
Bob,

As much as I like the BCI guys, they are not required to be CO's before getting on BCI.


Posted by: phuzz01

A decent fingerprint kit costs $50. A decent digital camera costs a few hundred. Lifting prints and taking photographs is not beyond the abilities of any patrol officer. And a few hundred dollars for the appropriate suppies are not beyond the budget of any department.

So, why on earth would anyone need to call in a sheriff's deputy to perform those simple POLICE tasks?


Posted by: mpd61

Jeezus!

What a bunch of pissing fools...

94c is plain arrogant in the attitude he has exhibited. He's pretty much being a donkey's rear end.
Plymouth County BCI personnel come from UNION (C.O.'s/dispatchers/etc) FT positions. Sheriff McD is on record as stating he will phase out Plymouth County BCI, when the MSP regional lab becomes operational. Sounds fiscally responsible to me.

BTW... I have never met any cop in Plymouth County who really is anti-sheriff.


Posted by: PaulKersey

Quote:
Originally Posted by phuzz01
A decent fingerprint kit costs $50.
A decent digital camera costs a few hundred.
A few hundred dollars for the appropriate suppies
Calling the Sheriff to do it...Priceless!


Posted by: SGT_GRUNT_USMC

Quote:
Originally Posted by phuzz01
A decent fingerprint kit costs $50. A decent digital camera costs a few hundred. Lifting prints and taking photographs is not beyond the abilities of any patrol officer. And a few hundred dollars for the appropriate suppies are not beyond the budget of any department.

So, why on earth would anyone need to call in a sheriff's deputy to perform those simple POLICE tasks?
I take my own photos all the time for minor crimes like DV,MDPP,batteries,etc as well as FI's.Many patrol officers are trained/issued a police digital camera.We only call CSI (the real LVMPD CSI team,not the one on TV) for bigger stuff.And by the way the real CSA's (Crime Scene Analysts) are civilian employee's of LVMPD,not PO's.


Posted by: OutOfManyOne

That is not the point. They take prints and photos ,process them and enter them in county database and AFIS automatically. Job gets done, as much as I hate the Sheriffs, these gusy are actually a cool bunch and they do a great job.


Posted by: Loyal

The ones i've met are nice guys, but they could easily be eliminated and their jobs performed by police officers with no problem at all... what they do is not rocket science - they take pictures and prints after the incident..why would any police department be incapable of that ? I have no problem with county bci's personally, but as a tax payer i roll my eyes and think of how that money could be better spent


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd61
Plymouth County BCI personnel come from UNION (C.O.'s/dispatchers/etc) FT positions.
Taking positions away from another union. That's called being a scab.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfManyOne
That is not the point. They take prints and photos ,process them and enter them in county database and AFIS automatically. Job gets done, as much as I hate the Sheriffs, these gusy are actually a cool bunch and they do a great job.
The Brazilian girl who gets my coffee every afternoon is really cool and does a great job, but she shouldn't be doing the job of the police.


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
Taking positions away from another union. That's called being a scab.
BINGO!!!

What do you call a so called law enforcement agency that volunteers to get in the middle of a police/management dispute and donate detail officers?

Damn Scabs. Every single one of them.

But then again they have been trying to get their foot in the door for years. What better way than to make yourselves look good and the police look greedy.

We are all supposed to be L.E.?

Not when you screw over a police department trying to use leverage and force the admin to address a safety issue that needs addressing.

Who needs the cops anyway? The Sheriff's Office will give you as many deputies as you need for your venue.

Brotherhood My ASS.

The union guys on this site will know exactly where I'm coming from. The rest of you internet cops and scabs can go sniff glue.


Posted by: Inspector71

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
Taking positions away from another union. That's called being a scab.

The Brazilian girl who gets my coffee every afternoon is really cool and does a great job, but she shouldn't be doing the job of the police.
1. How do BCI deputies collecting/preserving/cataloging/data entering evidence take away P.D. patrolman positions? How many of your union guys at Quincy PD spend their shift doing this? Don't they like "patrolling" and "911 response" better?
2. The Brazilian Girl at Dunkins analogy is rather moot since the BCI deputies aren't doing the "job of the police" either.

You Really have a lot of professional and personal experience Bruce, but when you start to tip towards more emotional than rational responses, well I just don't know. Now in this context I have to say the Anti-Sheriff thing REALLY is getting old.



Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector71
1. How do BCI deputies collecting/preserving/cataloging/data entering evidence take away P.D. patrolman positions? How many of your union guys at Quincy PD spend their shift doing this? Don't they like "patrolling" and "911 response" better?
Do you really need me to explain it to you? When the sheriff's department is doing the job of police detectives, that means the police chief can justify less (or even zero) detective positions. I can't think of too many police chiefs who wouldn't make a deal with the devil in order to save a few bucks.

And, in many departments (Quincy PD included) the detectives are patrol officers, with detective being an assignment instead of a rank.

Is it really that difficult to understand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector71
2. The Brazilian Girl at Dunkins analogy is rather moot since the BCI deputies aren't doing the "job of the police" either.
Collecting evidence and documenting crime scenes is not the job of the police? That's news to me; whose job is it, the DPW?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector71
You Really have a lot of professional and personal experience Bruce, but when you start to tip towards more emotional than rational responses, well I just don't know. Now in this context I have to say the Anti-Sheriff thing REALLY is getting old.
If the sheriffs stick to their job, which is civil process and the care, custody and transport of inmates, I don't have any problem with them whatsoever.


Posted by: Loyal

couldn't QPD use the assistance of a sheriff department patrol boat along the coast..... how about an S.D. radar team .....??? I agree with Delta. Most of the deputies may be good guys, just doing a job; but police responsibilities are not thier job. Too many Sheriffs have ambitions of being a county police chief and try to assume responsibilities that are not thiers (ie: trying to patrol New Bedford). By doing so, they shortchange the guys who work inside. They should act like the DOC and simply do their own job. You really can't blame the BCI guys for doing what the Sheriff appointed them to do, but the local and State police are more than capable of doing what BCI does - many of us already do.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector71
1. How do BCI deputies collecting/preserving/cataloging/data entering evidence take away P.D. patrolman positions?
Because that has nothing to do with care and custody of inmates. Many of the units, wages, and benefits were fought for and won by unions that protected the integrity of their departments. Departments that would, for the most part, have much of the work other than patrol "out-sourced" to the SD if they could get away with it.

It happened when BPD was standing their ground when it came to the MSP being ordered to do a function that BPD could've done, or hired more of their own officers to patrol inside Boston. The union's job is also to show their respective council and management their shortcomings or lack of officers that represents a safety issue.


Posted by: alphadog1

If the Governor REALLY wanted to save millions of wasted tax payers money, he SHOULD merge all the county jails with the DOC.


Posted by: BB-59

Merging the SD with DOC has been thrown around for years and it always comes up a big "zero".

Why? Because of politics thats why. An elected position carries with it not only power but much prestige in hiring and firing. Add to the fact that merging with the DOC entails attempting to merge the CMRs that are different for county and state corrections.

I know the county men and women would love a chance to get the same pay and retirement benefits that DOC has and many in the DOC would love the chance to work closer to home.

I know as I write this that the Governor has commisioned a study that has frozen any major expenditures (building - EM50s) for both state and county corrections until the study is completed sometime next year.

Instead of all the venting lets ask how the Quinn Bill and say the Heart Bill came about. It came about by the unions working overtime for better benefits and living conditions for our families.

Why can't we put the same effort in removing the "Chief of Law Enforcement" in the old common law here in MA that enpowers the Sheriffs to venture outside the walls, (except civil process), and end this grey area.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB-59
Merging the SD with DOC has been thrown around for years and it always comes up a big "zero".

Why? Because of politics thats why. An elected position carries with it not only power but much prestige in hiring and firing. Add to the fact that merging with the DOC entails attempting to merge the CMRs that are different for county and state corrections.

I know the county men and women would love a chance to get the same pay and retirement benefits that DOC has and many in the DOC would love the chance to work closer to home.

I know as I write this that the Governor has commisioned a study that has frozen any major expenditures (building - EM50s) for both state and county corrections until the study is completed sometime next year.

Instead of all the venting lets ask how the Quinn Bill and say the Heart Bill came about. It came about by the unions working overtime for better benefits and living conditions for our families.

Why can't we put the same effort in removing the "Chief of Law Enforcement" in the old common law here in MA that enpowers the Sheriffs to venture outside the walls, (except civil process), and end this grey area.
Why waste more $$$ on a study? Ask the men and women who work there, and maybe just look at how Connecticut did it. Seems likes it would be a done deal.


Posted by: alphadog1

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB-59
Why can't we put the same effort in removing the "Chief of Law Enforcement" in the old common law here in MA that enpowers the Sheriffs to venture outside the walls, (except civil process), and end this grey area.
Why? Because the Sheriffs belong behind the walls doing what they're suppose to do as correction officers, care & custody of inmates. Not running around pretending to be a police officer. Big difference between the two (no gray area).


Posted by: BB-59

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
Why waste more $$$ on a study? Ask the men and women who work there, and maybe just look at how Connecticut did it. Seems likes it would be a done deal.
I think anyone but a politician would completely agree that a study is a costly ($500,00.00) to the issue of prison over crowding. And no they will not ask the people behind the walls that actually do the job. Why? Because they will not give the answers they are looking for.

Again, do some research the CMRs for county and state facilities are two separate CMRs. Even the way they operate day to day operations would require allot of work to intergrate the two.

And again it is not as easy as it seems to intergrate two agencies that do pretty much the same job but because of CMRs, Union issues, and of course politics are all in the mix.

It would almost be akin to the MSP overseeing all the separate police departments in the state.


Posted by: bcibob670

THIS IS THE MOST PRODUCTIVE POST I HAVE READ ON THIS THREAD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BB-59
Merging the SD with DOC has been thrown around for years and it always comes up a big "zero".
Why? Because of politics thats why. An elected position carries with it not only power but much prestige in hiring and firing. ................................
Instead of all the venting lets ask how the Quinn Bill and say the Heart Bill came about. It came about by the unions working overtime for better benefits and living conditions for our families.
Why can't we put the same effort in removing the "Chief of Law Enforcement" in the old common law here in MA that enpowers the Sheriffs to venture outside the walls, (except civil process), and end this grey area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal
.................................................. .....
I respectfully disagree with BCIBOB about all bci guys having to have been correction officers; there is at least one in plymouth that owned a fish market just before getting on bci; he was hired by a previous sheriff, maybe things have changed........................................... ..........
.
In 1995 to 1997 I was the union steward involved in collective bargaining between BCI and the PCSD. For that time period there was a requirement for all later BCI hirees to come from the ranks of the CO's.. What any Sheriff did after that I don't know.

In response to other numerous posts,
Yes, the BCI officer who was a fishman was hired way before these negotiations, incidently before I worked for BCI I worked for a local PD before getting laid off by them.

Yes, ANY sheriffs dept personnel who knowingly interfere with another law enforcement agencies collective bargaining process is a SCAB.

NO , Not all BCI deputies cannot run back into the jail when they are done "playing cop" otherwise I would still be working for the PCSD.

Yes, there are many CIVILIAN non-sworn law enforcement personnel that provide evidence preservation, collection and analysis. SEE www.theiai.org

Yes, any PO can get a digital camera and lift prints and make an ID until they have to go to court and get a defense attourney that knows what he is doing.

\
YES, THERE IS NO STANDARDIZATION OF SHERIFFS DEPUTIES AND THAT HURTS EVERYONE INVOLVED. if the sheriff's departments can't do it right they shouldn't do it at all.

ignorance is like looking into the sun. It blinds you.


Posted by: lawdog671

And again it is not as easy as it seems to intergrate two agencies that do pretty much the same job but because of CMRs, Union issues, and of course politics are all in the mix
These CMR's are rewritten all the time. I think the major issue is that the Sheriff being an elected position is the major problem. I would say don't wipe out the Sheriff entirely. Change their authority to allow them to continue serving civil process and remove them from anything to do with correctional facilities or patrol work. Its better than fighting the fight to eliminate them entirely constitutionally isn't it?


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcibob670
Yes, ANY sheriffs dept personnel who knowingly interfere with another law enforcement agencies collective bargaining process is a SCAB.
Think of this thread as notification, so now you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcibob670
NO , Not all BCI deputies cannot run back into the jail when they are done "playing cop" otherwise I would still be working for the PCSD.
Aren't you retired on a disability? If you had the juice to get hired for BCI, you would have landed on your feet somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcibob670
Yes, there are many CIVILIAN non-sworn law enforcement personnel that provide evidence preservation, collection and analysis. SEE www.theiai.org
What they do in other states doesn't concern me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcibob670
Yes, any PO can get a digital camera and lift prints and make an ID until they have to go to court and get a defense attourney that knows what he is doing.
C'mon Bob; it's not rocket science. I learned how to lift prints after a few hours with one of our detectives, and capturing a digital image isn't exactly quantum physics. If I lift prints and submit them, off they go to the crime lab. Let the defense attorney cross-examine the AFIS machine.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog671
Change their authority to allow them to continue serving civil process and remove them from anything to do with correctional facilities or patrol work.
I believe CT took those serving papers into the judicial court officer branch and the rest into the CO branch. Again, it can be done. Whether or not it WILL be done is up to the guys on the hill.


Posted by: BB-59

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog671
And again it is not as easy as it seems to intergrate two agencies that do pretty much the same job but because of CMRs, Union issues, and of course politics are all in the mix
These CMR's are rewritten all the time. I think the major issue is that the Sheriff being an elected position is the major problem. I would say don't wipe out the Sheriff entirely. Change their authority to allow them to continue serving civil process and remove them from anything to do with correctional facilities or patrol work. Its better than fighting the fight to eliminate them entirely constitutionally isn't it?
I never suggested eliminating them entirely just the section in common law that states that the sheriff is the chief LE offiicer.

Put it this way, if the governor decided that instead of having all these seperate PDs they would be consolidated under the MSP as a cost saving measure and provide better service on a whole.

Do you think there would be an easy transition? Same problems with DOC and the county correctional system, as much as they do pretty much the same job description, there are major differences in operations and prisoners.


Posted by: wordstew

These are some pretty lame arguements. In the big picture it's not the Sheriffs or the State Police that are sucking up all the $$, it's all the individual Police departments thinking they are entitled to every cent of funding for thier little kingdoms.
Like it or not regionalization is on its way and this will change policing in this state as we know it.


Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Seems to me that regionalization is becoming a dead issue, besides I am happy with my PD, my OT and details and my shit I have to deal with on my PD, I don't need anyone else's headaches.


Posted by: kwflatbed

Nothing will ever change as long as their are politicains,hacks and deep pockets
to fund them.


Posted by: dlfowler

Each time you post a new message I can see that you have absolutely no idea what we do here in Plymouth County. I can assure that I have not in the past, nor will I in the future play the political game. I was hired because I had the qualifications necessary to perform the job.

What you also have to remember is that you work in a community where you have many officers on each shift so backup is not an issue. Come on down south and work for a department with maybe one or two officers on a shift. I think if you had to work under those conditions your attitude towards others who may wear a different unifrom than you would change quickly.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by wordstew
These are some pretty lame arguements. In the big picture it's not the Sheriffs or the State Police that are sucking up all the $$, it's all the individual Police departments thinking they are entitled to every cent of funding for thier little kingdoms.
Like it or not regionalization is on its way and this will change policing in this state as we know it.
The "little kingdoms" as you so ignorantly put it, are cities and towns which are the heart of representative government in Massachusetts. That system has been working well for almost 300 years, so if you think it's going to change anytime soon (if at all), you're living a fantasy.


Posted by: wordstew

At the end of the day economics will rule the course and things will change like it or not. So I think your're probably living in a fantasy world thinking thing are not going change.

For all of our sakes we better pray Hillary does'nt make it into office or things are gonna change alot sooner than any of us want


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by wordstew
At the end of the day economics will rule the course and things will change like it or not. So I think your're probably living in a fantasy world thinking things will never change.
There's been a regional police law on the books in this state since the 1960's;

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-99c.htm

The fact it's never been seriously considered should tell you something.


Posted by: lawdog671

I never suggested eliminating them entirely just the section in common law that states that the sheriff is the chief LE offiicer.

I would pay money to see GG show up at a major incident somewhere and tell either Col. Delaney or any local Chief with any balls that he's the Chief LE officer and see what happens....
Do you think there would be an easy transition? Same problems with DOC and the county correctional system, as much as they do pretty much the same job description, there are major differences in operations and prisoners.
Of course there would be some minor issues initially...but because they do the same things for the most part...and that SO would be concentrating on corrections only under that same consolidation idea, I personally think that it would be less of an issue than you may think.

And the MSP/local police idea would never happen..unions would prevent them...the cost would be overwhelming to the state and to be quite frank..local cops/city cops/ and troopers while we all do the same job...and we all do it well ....we each are better at certain things within that job that make us somewhat exclusive...as opposed to CO work ...with all due respet to CO's as a former screw...you're changing the type of prisoner (Jail guy 30 day sentence vs. lifer) ..and while I know there are differences in how you deal with them...I think basically your basic job doesnt change all that much. Nor would you see mass movements I think ...officers for most part would probably stay at their current facilities...WCSO/state wouldnt charge each other for safekeeps...overcrowing could be alleviated by spreading inmates around...I think its win win....


Posted by: wordstew

You have a valid point.

But in reality some the $$ local PDs receive would be better spent on a regional organization such as the State Police.

I am not talking about large cities. But there are alot of small towns that have as many specialized prgrams and units as they have officers. Big waste of taxpyers $$

As for the Sheriffs they devote so little actual $$ and man power to law enforcement that's it's hardly worth the arguement. Statistically almost all of their budgets and man power goto care and custody of inmates.

It's the chiefs of the local PDs allow Sheriffs to work in thier town doing details and anything else remotley related to Law Enforcement they are endorsing thier prescene in the community and thus it will continue.

Don't blame some poor guy who has the same credentials as a town special for making extra $$ doing details to support his family.
You see him patrolling or in a shiny new boat in your jurisdiction maybe the union should be calling your chief and the Sheriff.


Posted by: kwflatbed

"As for the Sheriffs they devote so little actual $$ and man power to law enforcement that's it's hardly worth the arguement. Statistically almost all of their budgets and man power goto care and custody of inmates. "


What dream world do you live in ?? I guess you don't know GG.

http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40406


Posted by: wordstew

Show me the actual numbers on paper and If you are correct I will concede.

Buying cruisers is a necessity to transport inmates. I bet your paycheck there are still plenty of 150k plus mileage cruisers in their fleet. K-9 teams have been used in corrections since day one. Just show me the numbers and prove me wrong. Just show me the math that proves a significant portion of the budget and man power that is not devoted to care and custody.


Posted by: lawdog671

http://www.mass.gov/bb/gaa/fy2008/ap.../h89100105.htm

Theres the link to the Commonwealth of Mass fiscal report on WCSO....

MISSION

The mission of the Worcester County Sheriff's Office is to protect the general public by reducing recidivism, investing in inmate rehabilitation programs, addressing substance abuse addiction, becoming a more proactive and supportive member of the Massachusetts law enforcement community, and implementing innovative community education initiatives. Sheriff Guy Glodis has pursued an aggressive agenda to accomplish this mission, including: creation of groundbreaking new programs, expansion of the Community Service Program, application for national accreditation, utilization of state-of-the-art computer technology, and establishment of partnerships with local, state and federal law enforcement and social service agencies. The foundation of this effort is the philosophy that incarceration is a time of both punishment and opportunity, of hard work and rehabilitation.

And for those who care.....Looks like Glodis has changed the mission statement from care,custody, and control of inmates huh


Posted by: str8tshot52

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog671
http://www.mass.gov/bb/gaa/fy2008/ap.../h89100105.htm

Theres the link to the Commonwealth of Mass fiscal report on WCSO....
Is it me, or did you just completely prove wordstew's point that the Sheriff spends almost nothing on outside programs?


Posted by: lawdog671

I didnt prove anything....there is nothing there one way or the other....as a matter of fact I find it to be vague....I posted something in the interests of being objective....


Posted by: Otto

... And the info in that link proves, what?

When did the WCSO Mission Statement consist only of: Care, custody and control of inmates?


Posted by: str8tshot52

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog671
I didnt prove anything....there is nothing there one way or the other....as a matter of fact I find it to be vague....I posted something in the interests of being objective....
Actually, I think you did prove something....that 98% of the SD budget goes towards EXACTLY what you want. I don't even know what public assistance is, but the point, which you, Harry, and a couple others hard argued, was that the Sheriff spends a lot on non-jail items.....and you've just proven that's not true.

See what happens when you're objective?


Posted by: wordstew

I rest my case

PS this by no means is an endorsement of the Sheriff and his practices. Just trying to point out that this arguement has been blown way out of proportion for the most part by people who who don't back it up their arguement with facts.


Posted by: lawdog671

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto
... And the info in that link proves, what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto
When did the WCSO Mission Statement consist only of: Care, custody and control of inmates?


Someone mentioned operating costs and I posted it. Proves nothing in my opinion.
WHEN I went to your full time academy there, it was posted in my training books and taught that the primary mission of the Sheriff was the care, custody and control of Jail and House of Correction inmates. Are you saying that GG didn't change the mission statement when he took over?


Posted by: Otto

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawdog671
...WHEN I went to your full time academy there, it was posted in my training books and taught that the primary mission of the Sheriff was the care, custody and control of Jail and House of Correction inmates. Are you saying that GG didn't change the mission statement when he took over?
The "primary mission" of a correctional officer is "custody, control and care."The sheriffs primary responsibility is the jail. But it is not his sole responsibility.

A mission statement also encompasses the secondary and subsequent missions. Care custody and control of prisoners has never been the sole mission of the sheriff, statutorily or at common law.


Posted by: kwflatbed

I think it is time to go after the records under the freedom of information act
just to see where the money does go.
But like everything else with Glodis and crew they will be buried with shit figures
and fancy coverups with double talk.


Posted by: str8tshot52

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwflatbed
I think it is time to go after the records under the freedom of information act
just to see where the money does go.
But like everything else with Glodis and crew they will be buried with shit figures
and fancy coverups with double talk.
I would strongly encourage you to contact the Comptroller's Office and get as much information about the SD as you can. Then, instead of slinging unsubstantiated insults, you'd have no excuses when you can't back it up.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by str8tshot52
I would strongly encourage you to contact the Comptroller's Office and get as much information about the SD as you can. Then, instead of slinging unsubstantiated insults, you'd have no excuses when you can't back it up.
WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER SIMPLE QUESTIONS REGARDING YOUR TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE??

Quote:
Originally Posted by wordstew
But in reality some the $$ local PDs receive would be better spent on a regional organization such as the State Police.
The state isn't a region, it's a state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wordstew
I am not talking about large cities. But there are alot of small towns that have as many specialized prgrams and units as they have officers. Big waste of taxpyers $$
Well, that's their business. It's their tax dollars or local aid; if they want to spend it on special programs and units, more power to them. If the citizens don't like it, they can vote in new government.

Regionalization of police & fire services in the small towns out in western MA makes sense on several levels, but you'll NEVER see it. The selectmen/town meeting members are not going to relinquish even a bit of control over selection of police & fire personnel, and if they're against it the idea is DOA.


Posted by: exscrew

Hey sta8hack? I don't know how much you make there in WC but I can guaranty you this . Your a hack who wouldn't be missed one bit of you didn't work there. guys like you ( and lord knows there are dozens) account for some of the biggest waste of funds in all of these Sheriff Depts. SD's are a dumping ground for political hacks. take them out of the budget and maybe y they could realy get something positive done.


Posted by: Loyal

I'm still wondering why some Sheriff Departments have "Community Committed" and "Dial 9-1-1" on their cars. They seem to be deliberately
deceiving people in an effort to fool people into thinking they are police officers. They do not do 9-1-1 calls in Massachusetts -at most they snap a photo, after the fact. Keep in mind though, the blame rests with the Sheriffs, not with the average Deputy, who is simply doing the job he was appointed to. My issue is with the sign holding hacks, most of whom are part time and used politics to get their job. Then they have the audacity to tell people that they are "cops"... If you don't do 9-1-1, you are not a police officer.


Posted by: 94c

"Dial 9-1-1"

Means call the real cops.....


Posted by: lawdog671

I'm still wondering why some Sheriff Departments have "Community Committed" and "Dial 9-1-1" on their cars. They seem to be deliberately
deceiving people in an effort to fool people into thinking they are police officers.
GG is pimping a new reverse 911 dialing system in Worcester County as his big new idea. All over one of the newpapers I read. Was probably STR8's idea....


Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

Gil close this immature retarded thread thats not going any where!!!!


Posted by: bcibob670

Hear is a question,
I was on a military PD and answered 911 calls in base housing does that make me a cop? I did DV's, M/V stops, riot control, DUI'S ETC. If so, does being a deputy remove that experience from my CV? just for the peanut gallery, I know my deputy work is not police work.
Before you answer please consider my other posts to save redundency in your party line.

I have no problem with this thread being closed. I got my answer long ago.


Posted by: OutOfManyOne

You're a real cop if you are a deputy sheriff outside Massachusetts. Here, just accept that you are nothing really more than a hack.


Posted by: PearlOnyx

I think it's important to remember that not all Deputy Sheriff's are hacks. Personally, I was a Deputy Sheriff, and did my 40-50 hours a week behind the fence, knew my role etc. for 5 years. That being said, many hacks do exist. All ice cream is ice cream, however not all ice cream is vanilla. A hack is like a flavor of Deputy Sheriff =)


Posted by: pahapoika

someone mentioned 911 graphics on the sheriff cars. didn't see any around here , but they all had the blue "police" plates


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by pahapoika
someone mentioned 911 graphics on the sheriff cars. didn't see any around here , but they all had the blue "police" plates
Why doesn't the RMV just issue gray "Sheriff" plates. Jeesh! they have a plate with everything from animals to sports teams anyway!



Posted by: Loyal

Pearl Onyx has a good point. Many earned their position as a Deputy and are not hacks. Who can blame them for seeking a transfer in their department to a transportation unit or a bci unit ? Having worked inside for several years like many of the people here, I know how tempting a fresh air job is. Most, but certainly not all, of the guys who earned, not bought, their deputy position, seem more interested in making a living than in playing police officer.

In the DOC, it use to be that you had to be a c.o. for 1 year before you could be appointed as a special officer. There are no part time c o's in the DOC ,so you worked inside for a full year, with full inmate contact before you could get appointed as a "sspo" and work fence patrol, vehicle traps, do trips outside, etc - sspo was earned, not given, based on donations or sign holding like too many county deputy positions are.

Why can't Deputy positions have similar requirements ? The part time jobs should go to retired c.o's, retired police, etc - people who earned it. Until the politics are taken out of deputy appointments, a lot of people will continue to look at sheriff departments as hack havens. Many are hacks, but most are not.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal
Pearl Onyx has a good point. Many earned their position as a Deputy and are not hacks. Who can blame them for seeking a transfer in their department to a transportation unit or a bci unit ? Having worked inside for several years like many of the people here, I know how tempting a fresh air job is. Most, but certainly not all, of the guys who earned, not bought, their deputy position, seem more interested in making a living than in playing police officer.

In the DOC, it use to be that you had to be a c.o. for 1 year before you could be appointed as a special officer. There are no part time c o's in the DOC ,so you worked inside for a full year, with full inmate contact before you could get appointed as a "sspo" and work fence patrol, vehicle traps, do trips outside, etc - sspo was earned, not given, based on donations or sign holding like too many county deputy positions are.

Why can't Deputy positions have similar requirements ? The part time jobs should go to retired c.o's, retired police, etc - people who earned it. Until the politics are taken out of deputy appointments, a lot of people will continue to look at sheriff departments as hack havens. Many are hacks, but most are not.
Sounds good to me.


Posted by: RPD931

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94c
WRONG! I'll take my chances and get my ass kicked while waiting for my real back-up.

After all I'm not stopping to help you out under similar circumstances.
I second what someone else says, you're a bag of sh$t! I know a guy that felt that way about off-duty cops too -- he's a P.O.S. too.

And that mentality could very well get you killed on the streets. If a C.O. or Deputy stops to help me when I'm in the shit, I will more than GLADLY take their help. Most of those guys probably can handle shitbags 10 times better than you. They have extensive Defensive Tactics training as well (nature of their job). Like many folks on here that work in rural areas, by the time your "real back-up" shows up, you could be dead. Take help anyway you can get it. If you're fighting for your life you should be willing to take any assistance. Your arrogance will get you hurt.


Posted by: BB-59

I agree "911" should be removed from SD vehicles, answering those calls are the area of state and municipal police.

As far as exrtaditions go by the DA saying that "high profile" cases will be handled by the state police instead of the SD sounds politically motivated to me. If he would have said "high risk", that could be easily justified in the fact that the state police have much greater resources to draw from than the SD.

And this goes on and on!


Posted by: Vader

Why is it that it seems the only one's who seem to be defending the sheriff's role in a patrol capacity...are the hacks themselves??? Does that seem at all odd to any of you? It's like watching an interview with a child molester or dealing with a junkie...100% wrong...but somehow they continue to defend their actions.


Posted by: lawdog671

Think bout it logically...who has the most to lose....the guys inside the jails doing their jobs...taking tests...working at getting a legit police job..or the political guys who couldn't get on anywhere else besides where there cousin got them in...


Posted by: OutOfManyOne

They all want to be police but can't make it, so what elese can they do but try to make their own world, and try to be the police.


Posted by: wordstew

Listen it's really pretty easy to figure out:

Next time you come across a Deputy Sheriff on the streets or during a traffic stop just ask him how much time he spent behind the walls as a C/O and where he went to the R/I Academy. If he says none than treat him like the HACK he is. Otherwise normal courtesy should prevail.

Just remember a good portion of Sheriffs working details are retired C/Os or Cops. The other ones are the hacks, make the determination before you you turn your nose up. from what I hear most Deputies dislike politically appointed hacks as much as you or I.

If he is patrolling in your town without being asked to do so than he is a scab period.


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD931
I second what someone else says, you're a bag of sh$t! I know a guy that felt that way about off-duty cops too -- he's a P.O.S. too.

And that mentality could very well get you killed on the streets. If a C.O. or Deputy stops to help me when I'm in the shit, I will more than GLADLY take their help. Most of those guys probably can handle shitbags 10 times better than you. They have extensive Defensive Tactics training as well (nature of their job). Like many folks on here that work in rural areas, by the time your "real back-up" shows up, you could be dead. Take help anyway you can get it. If you're fighting for your life you should be willing to take any assistance. Your arrogance will get you hurt.
another rural, scab supporter.....


Posted by: BB-59

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfManyOne
They all want to be police but can't make it, so what elese can they do but try to make their own world, and try to be the police.
How about the ones who did make it and are retired LE that work details?

What about the towns and cities that use them for details when none of the officers in that town want it? I know many towns and cities have the mutual aid agreements, and that is a good thing for it gives the opportunity for other PDs to work a detail when none are available in there town or city.

The unions should push for all LE agencies to have a mutual aid agreements. Besides stopping the SDs from working details, it ensures that details are filled and not let go.

If we cannot fill details and the work goes on, how long before the public starts questioning why they have to pay a detail at one job site and not another. And attempting to delay or close down a work site because of lack of an available LE will fly for only so long.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB-59
How about the ones who did make it and are retired LE that work details?
They're the last ones in the world anyone needs to worry about as far as stopping cars and attempting to take over patrol functions.


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD931
I second what someone else says, you're a bag of sh$t! I know a guy that felt that way about off-duty cops too -- he's a P.O.S. too.

Like many folks on here that work in rural areas, by the time your "real back-up" shows up, you could be dead.
From what?

A cow falling on top of you?


Posted by: sherifflittle

not all but some of you meatheads are "hacks" ...pure fools. The views you guys have on the sheriff departments are ignorant, immature, and you present yourselves as wannabe "T.J. Hookers" sliding across the hood of your cruisers in persuit of God knows what. Ive met people like you guys. and its a damn shame that you wear a badge. the guy who said ill stand by while a DOC or SD gets his ass kicked. let me ask, how did you get on?. daddy a selectman?. right. thought so ...you have that mentality. have you guys ever met a deputy is all gung ho and ready to fight crime like a superhero? probably not too many out there.. those guys are happy to be in law enforcement. the ones you do meet held up a sign for the sheriff . ive met guys that are frauds. just like some of you , coming on here and talking smack...you should be shining your boots instead. putting on bells and whistles that dont go w/ your uniforms. an absolute joke some of you guys are. im embarrassed for you. just living the dream huh boys?. thatta boy go get em...ffffreeeeze!. just remember one thing...the plymouth county sheriffs department was the first law enforcement agency in massachusetts when the pilgrims came over.. they have seniority.." doesnt that make you mad?..hmm?......by the way, doesnt matter what some of you frauds have to say..there are more good LEO's than there are of you..remember that


Posted by: 94c

Schizophrenia is a treatable condition...


Posted by: sherifflittle

thank you..i appreciate that....its from being married for 8 yrs....i apologize


Posted by: adnil

I'm a civilian - no law enforcement training - no sheriffs dept training. I started reading Mass cops because I know someone that was both in a jail working as a CO and now works as a police officer. I will readily admit that I would not want either job because of the danger involved in both lines of work. I will also say that if I am in trouble and need law enforcement help, I would rather a state trooper or a police officer that is on the street everday, seeing people in their natural environment, come to my aid with all the training behind it. I believe that everyone has a right to their opinion but to have 94C say he would drive by and let another human being be hurt/maimed by another out of control human being is beyond belief ! I have a feeling that you are the kind of police officer that gives other police officer's that "arrogant ***hole" title. You can argue back and forth about who belongs where but the bottom line to me would be that everyone should be judged as an individual not as a group. I'm sure that some sheriffs dept employees got their jobs because of who they know, but I have a feeling that there are some police officers that got their "in" the same way. Remember the rest of the guys/girls out there doing the job got it on their own merits with no "connections". I will also say that the training you all go through is relevant to the job you will have. What you do with that training is up to the individual. There is always that one that will make the group look bad even if the group is really just following orders.


Posted by: MM1799

sherifflittle is back. You might be even more dilusional than str8shot52.

Just a PSA from your's truly:
Before anyone get caught up in littlesheriff's "respect for the sheriff" post, please refer his previous posts. Especially those that involve anything state police related. Also his comment about stopping a vehicle because his car has blue lights -- nevermind any authority. That is all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by adnil
I have a feeling that you are the kind of police officer that gives other police officer's that "arrogant ***hole" title.
Actually, the public gives us that title. It is usually percipitated by a ticket or other "annoyance" that we officers dare to bourden the public with.


Posted by: Loyal

Sherifflittle, the first law enforcement in Massachusetts was a "constable" who functioned as a police officer. He dealt with crime and helped maintain order in what was the only municipality at the time- Plymouth. In the beginning there were no other municipalities and thus no "county". His name was Myles Standish; a 1 man P.P.D. - Even then, there was no need for county government.. Sorry to destroy your delusions of grandeur


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherifflittle
just remember one thing...the plymouth county sheriffs department was the first law enforcement agency in massachusetts when the pilgrims came over.. they have seniority
100%, positively, absolutely wrong.

As mentioned above, Myles Standish was the first LEO in the New World and in addition to being the father of the Plymouth Police Department, he also made the first arrests ever in Quincy.

A Quincy resident named Thomas Morton was cavorting with the local Native Americans, holding raucous parties on top of a hill while providing liquor and firearms to them. This became known as "making merry on the mount" and eventually Myles Standish was summoned from Plymouth to arrest Morton and the rest of the revelers.

To this day, the neighborhood around that hill is called "Merrymount".


Posted by: k9sheriff

Just curious, if the first assembly of the new government took place in Boston on October 1780 after being ratified by the delegates on March 2, 1780 in Cambridge and Massachusetts officially becoming a state on May 16,1788 who would be the first police department?


Posted by: 94c

Boston PD?


Posted by: PaulKersey

Cmpsa?


Posted by: Loyal

Officially I believe it would be Boston. But unofficially, and in reality, it was Myles Standish who was the 1'st to be empowered to enforce the law and perform the functions of a police officer -among other duties he would later be entrusted with.. And no, he did not hold a sign for some politician to be appointed to his position


Posted by: pahapoika

A Quincy resident named Thomas Morton was cavorting with the local Native Americans

Thomas Morton occupation - Gent.

anyone looking for a good read on Boston history should check out

Schofield,Willam G. Freedom by the Bay The Boston Freedom Trail.

and now back to our program.......................


Posted by: k9sheriff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loyal
Officially I believe it would be Boston. But unofficially, and in reality, it was Myles Standish who was the 1'st to be empowered to enforce the law and perform the functions of a police officer -among other duties he would later be entrusted with.. And no, he did not hold a sign for some politician to be appointed to his position
Yes he did, His name was King James of England


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by k9sheriff
Yes he did, His name was King James of England
Kings are not elected.


Posted by: k9sheriff

Makes it even worse


Posted by: kwflatbed

Nothing worse than a sign waving political hack


Posted by: k9sheriff

Yeah, Monarchy's and Dictatorships are much better.Screw Democracy.Just kidding, I know what you mean.


Posted by: sherifflittle

oh you fellas are absolutly wonderful...look cut the semantics guys you all knew what i meant and what i was trying to say...you corrected me and thats ok..but because you corrected me you know where i was going and the point i was trying to make..so cool it...im a LEO just like all of you and raised my right hand just like all of you so relax for God sakes


Posted by: lawdog671

im a LEO just like all of you and raised my right hand just like all of you so relax for God sakes

Selling your soul to the devil doesn't make you like us....


Posted by: sherifflittle

well then your in the wrong career field...you should be working at the brockton mall making sure nobody parks in the fire lane...the fact that you cannot comprehend the simple fact that we are all as one..you will have a very long , lonely , irrelevant career as you have had thus far. i often wonder how guys like you get by on a day to day basis. this "napoleon complex" some of you posses is in fact quite humerous...your a joke. your over your head. dont let the door of your cruiser hit you in the vagina on your way out


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherifflittle View Post
well then your in the wrong career field...you should be working at the brockton mall making sure nobody parks in the fire lane...the fact that you cannot comprehend the simple fact that we are all as one..you will have a very long , lonely , irrelevant career as you have had thus far. i often wonder how guys like you get by on a day to day basis. this "napoleon complex" some of you posses is in fact quite humerous...your a joke. your over your head. dont let the door of your cruiser hit you in the vagina on your way out
That's only because those towns in Plymouth County enable you hacks.

If you guys were blackballed and given not so much as an inch of space, you'd go away. Albeit only temporarily for a rat always tries to return for the crumbs.


Posted by: lawdog671

Quote:
Originally Posted by sherifflittle View Post
well then your in the wrong career field...you should be working at the brockton mall making sure nobody parks in the fire lane...the fact that you cannot comprehend the simple fact that we are all as one..you will have a very long , lonely , irrelevant career as you have had thus far. i often wonder how guys like you get by on a day to day basis. this "napoleon complex" some of you posses is in fact quite humerous...your a joke. your over your head. dont let the door of your cruiser hit you in the vagina on your way out
Well that hit a nerve...truth hurts huh?? Fire lane?? Original....wasn't there a thread a while age about a SO down your way doing mall details?? I don't want to steal your work.....you go yell at soccer moms ..I'm all set..
Thanks for your concern about my irrelevant lonely career...but judging from responses here I wouldn't say that's a concern of mine.....we can compare resumes later....you me and STR8hack.....

Funny you mention Napoleon complex ....whats your screenname here?...something about Little??...

Oh and about hitting myself with the cruiser door.....like the rest of the police officers here...I had quite a bit of training in patrol procedures so my "vagina" will be just fine....worry about yours as carrying a sign or writing a check to get your job certainly wont help yours out at all when exiting your cruiser....




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