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Rookies

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Posted by: gruntled

I don't know what the hell they're doing over at the academy these days but the last few years worth of rookies must have been the bottom of the barrel.
I see guys coming in who don't make rounds, don't do pat-searches, make half-assed log entries and don't wear their uniforms properly.
I've been a supervisor for more than half of my time-in and I've never been made to re-teach basic corrections to academy recruits.
It must be a sign of the times.


Posted by: KozmoKramer

It's bound to happen Gruntled.
Anytime you reduce standards and entrance requirements your going reap less quality from the pool of recruits.
It's happening in many areas of the country in corrections and police recruitment.

But what is the better trade off in your opinion?
Forced OT and short staffed shifts, or a poorly prepared rookie compliment, but full staff to keep your numbers up?


Posted by: gruntled

Kozmo,
I'll take the short shifts and the forced O.T. all day long vs. unqualified staff.


Posted by: kttref

...try being one of the people who got hired recently and treated like we're all dumbasses...really it's fun. some of us aren't as stupid as the rest of us make it seem.


Posted by: andy0921

You're right, Kate.
I would much rather have one of our younger officers back me up rather than the 28 year veteran who shows up with his gut hanging over his gun belt and powdered sugar on his shirt...


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy0921
I would much rather have one of our younger officers back me up rather than the 28 year veteran who shows up with his gut hanging over his gun belt and powdered sugar on his shirt...
I'll take the veteran with the gut who knows how to talk to people and defuse a situation, versus the know-it-all rookie who is like dumping JP-5 on a smoldering campfire.


Posted by: 94c

Where I work I have plenty of supervisors complaining about the new guys. My response to them is then why don't YOU supervise?

I learn something new everyday on this job. Maybe some of these new guys being complained about need a little guidance?

Ya, I know about the know-it-alls, but they can be taught also.


Posted by: andy0921

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
I'll take the veteran with the gut who knows how to talk to people and defuse a situation, versus the know-it-all rookie who is like dumping JP-5 on a smoldering campfire.
We're lucky enough to not have a bunch of know-it-all rookies who talk to everyone "like hard-ass school-yard bullies". A majority of our younger officers are CIT certified (Crisis Intervention Team) which means they have attended a 40 hour course dedicated to dealing with the mentally ill and basically talking to people like they're human beings. Some of my best friends are 20 + year vets but there are a few who have terrible people skills and want nothing to do with the job; they're just counting their days to retirement. I do agree with you, Bruce, in the example you used. However, I'll take the 35 y/o CIT certified officer, versus the one or two disgruntled and miserable old timers.


Posted by: pahapoika

disgruntled and miserable old timers.

hey , wait a second.....i resemble that remark !

the new kids aren't that bad. they take too much shit from the cons , but's that's to be expected. .

some will quit in a year , some will become counselors ( or management ) and some will become disgruntled and miserable old timers.

welcome aboard men ! maybe now i can get a day off
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Posted by: kttref

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy0921
We're lucky enough to not have a bunch of know-it-all rookies who talk to everyone "like hard-ass school-yard bullies". A majority of our younger officers are CIT certified (Crisis Intervention Team) which means they have attended a 40 hour course dedicated to dealing with the mentally ill and basically talking to people like they're human beings. Some of my best friends are 20 + year vets but there are a few who have terrible people skills and want nothing to do with the job; they're just counting their days to retirement. I do agree with you, Bruce, in the example you used. However, I'll take the 35 y/o CIT certified officer, versus the one or two disgruntled and miserable old timers.
You guys had to go through CIT??? That sucks...heard it is one of the worst trainings out there...Regardless, that is not my point.

My point is...I was told that I'm too nice in many situations because I'm able to diffuse people with words instead of my taser. I have been told to be more like the fuckin jackass co-worker of mine who beat the crap out of some kid because he was a little hesitant about being arrested (he flinched). I would much rather attempt to talk down a situation versus hurting someone unnecessarily...but whatever, I'm a girl - what do I know about being a cop?

But I also can't stand the fucking guys that don't know the difference between a taser, a gun, and a donut. Some people need to learn when to retire.


Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Don't blame the academies, blame the poor or non-existent FTOs and supervisors. You have one year to shit can a newbie, do it if you have to.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy0921
We're lucky enough to not have a bunch of know-it-all rookies who talk to everyone "like hard-ass school-yard bullies". A majority of our younger officers are CIT certified (Crisis Intervention Team) which means they have attended a 40 hour course dedicated to dealing with the mentally ill and basically talking to people like they're human beings. Some of my best friends are 20 + year vets but there are a few who have terrible people skills and want nothing to do with the job; they're just counting their days to retirement. I do agree with you, Bruce, in the example you used. However, I'll take the 35 y/o CIT certified officer, versus the one or two disgruntled and miserable old timers.
I didn't mean to make it sound like all (or even most) of our rookies are know-it-alls; quite the contrary, we have some excellent younger officers. It's just that the bad apple will stand out more than the good ones, ya know?

Still, I've found that veteran officers tend to have better people skills than younger officers just through the repetition of dealing with people over the years. Some officers see it as a sign of weakness to say "thank you" when someone turns down a loud stereo or a gang on the corner moves along; I see it as cheap good will that might serve you well later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfManyOne
Don't blame the academies, blame the poor or non-existent FTOs and supervisors. You have one year to shit can a newbie, do it if you have to.
FTO's and supervisors can't fire someone, they can only make recommendations. Many years ago when I was an FTO, I recommended in the strongest possible terms that someone not be allowed to graduate the probationary period, as did every FTO this officer had. One of his relatives is very politically connected, so our recommendations were ignored.


Posted by: Efox

Quote:
Originally Posted by kttref
instead of my taser.
Now that just makes me jealous.


Posted by: andy0921

Quote:
It's just that the bad apple will stand out more than the good ones, ya know?
I know.

Quote:
Still, I've found that veteran officers tend to have better people skills than younger officers just through the repetition of dealing with people over the years.
You're probably right, Bruce. I'm just referring to the bad apple old timer while you're referring to the one or two cocky young guns. Anyway, stay safe.


Posted by: TypeX

del


Posted by: Redleg13D

Something to think about...

Is it that the rookies you see are all ate up?

OR could it be that after X number of years in service, they just appear that way? (You may have once appeared as such to a veteran officer)

I see it all the time in the military. Usually some 17-18 year old private appears to be all kinds of f-ed up, but I realize that 8 years ago, I was that just like that.

If they are messed up, give them time.


Posted by: OCKS

When I was a rookie the older guys wouldn't even talk to us never mind help teach us. The new way is better senior officers and sgts. nurturing young officers onto the job. All the young officers have to remember is keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut. Don't get caught up in intradepartment gossip or problems.Take the best from all the officers you work with and don't use the bad habits or tactics you see.


Posted by: devilcop76

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCKS
When I was a rookie the older guys wouldn't even talk to us never mind help teach us.
This happens wherever you go.....it happened to me during my time with the DOC and it's the same deal in my Department now. If your badge number isn't below #300, you don't deserve to be spoken to or even acknowledged
in the smallest way. All the "salty" veterans forget that they were rookies once too.


Posted by: K.Lavoie

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilcop76
This happens wherever you go.....it happened to me during my time with the DOC and it's the same deal in my Department now. If your badge number isn't below #300, you don't deserve to be spoken to or even acknowledged
in the smallest way. All the "salty" veterans forget that they were rookies once too.
I totally agree! Everyone just needs to remember that they were once new to the profession also. There is nothing worst than having a senior officer who won't even speak to a "Rookie," but will be seen in full conversation with a con.
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Posted by: Otto

[quote=Delta784]... Some officers see it as a sign of weakness to say "thank you" when someone turns down a loud stereo or a gang on the corner moves along; I see it as cheap good will that might serve you well later.quote]

So true...


Posted by: NytroCop

I've only been behind the walls for a little less than 2 months so I definitely fall in the FNG category. I've made my screw ups and done the stupid little mistakes and will continue to. I'm not perfect, not going to BS you and say that I am. But I learn something every night that I work and I don't flap my gums in return. I AM an FNG, my job is to learn the ropes from the vets. I know everyone runs their blocks differently and I have no problem saying "what's up?" or talking with a "resident " for a while. Actually it's nice to having a "normal" conversation about the Pats or Sox with someone wearing something other than blue in there, but I know where to draw the line.

I guess what it boils down to is that yeah, there are some assholes coming in with the classes but (not speaking of myself, let's get THAT straight) there's also some class acts coming in as well that will certainly go places in due time. I know that the crap stands out more than the polish sometimes but don't lump us all in together... I have to remind the veterans that altough we all have the same start date, doesn't mean we all start with the same number of marbles to play with.

AJ


Posted by: chief801

Several things you can count on in LE and Corrections:

1. Things were much better "back in the day"
2. These new kids are clueless
3. Morale has never been this low

I don't know how we survive! LOL


Posted by: SinePari

I tend to think that the majority of professions, ours included, fall into the 80/20 reasoning. 20% are your workers, 80% fill the roster. Just like sales, you can teach the one-liners and techniques, but people skills are only issued to the 20% at birth.


Posted by: kttref

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
I tend to think that the majority of professions, ours included, fall into the 80/20 reasoning. 20% are your workers, 80% fill the roster. Just like sales, you can teach the one-liners and techniques, but people skills are only issued to the 20% at birth.
And where sir, do you lie?


Posted by: devilcop76

Quote:
Originally Posted by kttref
And where sir, do you lie?
Zing!


Posted by: honor12900

Quote:
Originally Posted by chief801
Several things you can count on in LE and Corrections:

1. Things were much better "back in the day"
2. These new kids are clueless
3. Morale has never been this low

I don't know how we survive! LOL
That list has driven me crazy for years. I do my job, keep my mouth shut and keep a positive attitude. I have seen both new guys and veterans who don't know how to talk to people.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by chief801
Several things you can count on in LE and Corrections:

1. Things were much better "back in the day"
2. These new kids are clueless
3. Morale has never been this low
1) In some ways, that's true. Other ways (such as technology), not so much.

2) New kids are clueless.

3) In some departments, that's very true.


Posted by: Macop

I have worked some newbies that outshine some of the veterns, and vice versa, there is not absolute either way.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilcop76
Zing!
How is that a zing new guy? kttref and I go way back, sooooo...I'd say you're in the 80%...opening mouth before knowing all the facts; hence, no people skills.


Posted by: 5-0

I see a pretty decent mix of both types of people. I pretty much try to keep my mouth shut and learn from officers that have been around longer than me. I have seen rookies that go into situations and blow them up, but I try to keep things mellow unless someone really needs to get tuned up.

Like delta and chief said, new kids are clueless. I am one of them. I am constantly amazed at how much stuff I don't know, and wish I was on a more pro-active department so I could learn more. There is only so much you can learn from reading LED...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
How is that a zing new guy? kttref and I go way back, sooooo...I'd say you're in the 80%...opening mouth before knowing all the facts; hence, no people skills.
zing!


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5-0
and wish I was on a more pro-active department so I could learn more. There is only so much you can learn from reading LED...
Being proactive has many forms. Unless you're too busy with calls for service, some proactive work that may seem cool to you maybe mundane to someone else. So find someone who's doing what you want to do. Some people look for drugs, chase OUIs, traffic, community policing, investigations, different units, etc.


Posted by: kttref

But also don't forget there are some veterans who don't know shit. There were too many times when I was told something by a more senior officer just to find out later what I did (on that advice) was COMPLETELY wrong and I should have known better...but in those situations the rookie just kind of expects the more senior officer to know what the hell they're talking about....but then you realized they're are fuckups in every level of law enforcement.



And Sine and I do go back quite some time...and I'd kick his ass in a mosh pit, don't let him fool you haha


Posted by: andy0921

What would you do, punch him in the knee cap?


Posted by: kttref

nah, bite his ankles


Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

People skills there goes my chance at a corrections career


Posted by: Macop

The idea that rookies are useless is unreasonable, just like I hear people say the ones who have 20+YRS are useless, I would also say that is unreasonable. Again it goes to the idivisual person and the many variables in play.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macop
The idea that rookies are useless is unreasonable, just like I hear people say the ones who have 20+YRS are useless, I would also say that is unreasonable. Again it goes to the idivisual person and the many variables in play.
Clueless, not useless. The only thing worse than a clueless rookie is one who doesn't think he's clueless.


Posted by: midwatch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macop
The idea that rookies are useless is unreasonable
I have to agree with you here, rookies are not useless. I mean there is always trash to take out, cruisers to clean, junkie prisoners to strip search...


Posted by: GARDA

[quote=OCKS]When I was a rookie the older guys wouldn't even talk to us never mind help teach us. The new way is better senior officers and sgts. nurturing young officers onto the job. All the young officers have to remember is keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut. Don't get caught up in intradepartment gossip or problems.Take the best from all the officers you work with and don't use the bad habits or tactics you see.[/quote]

"Show Up, Shut Up, and Keep Up" ..words to live by for rookies and caddies !
That may sound a bit harsh for some, but we all know there's plenty of time following that FNG-hand-holding-phase to show everyone the real you. When you are new on any job, the formula for future success is simple: Absorb everything around you like a sponge & listen and digest what you are taught. Like OCKS said above, there are many styles to choose from, be selective. I can attribute many successes in my life to others: "I am nothing without the people who inspire me".


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Posted by: chief801

To clarify-

My list was tongue and cheek. What I meant was that I heard these same comments when I was new.

Clueless definitely does not mean useless! Sometimes I envy newbies! They carry an idealism that is lost on many of us after having our "professional virginity" taken away! I remember criticizing the old guys that I considered slugs because I was full of P&V and they were content to do their 8 hours and go home. It is a learning and maturation process. I always go back to the dialogue between Sean Penn and Robert Duval in "Colors".

"Let's run down and "f" one of those cows"

"No son, lets walk down and "f" them all"

It takes time to learn that mentality and its up to the senior organization members to develope that in the rooks. Senior guys also have to remember that we were once clueless rookies.


Posted by: viking

I currently DO NOT WORK FOR ANY LAW ENFORCEMENT DEPARTMENT. But after reading all these posts i completly agree. There are lots of things that need to be learned from people that have been in the field for long period of time.
I am currently 26 and i have been working with Mental Health / Detox/ substance abuse population in locked up settings since i was 18. I was there FNG for along time, but during that time i did learn things and what was important for me i gained respect from others with work ethic and right thinking because in the place where i have worked for 6 years every day someone was getting hurt . I have been stabed by needles numerous times, cut by glass picture frames numerous times, bitten, all because people do not do B&B search upon arrival. Now i completely understand why some senior people in the field are veary of the newbies.
I have nothing but respect for you guys that have been in the trenches for long time




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