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Main Page Sheriff Wants Motorists to be Fingerprinted for Traffic Cite
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: JoninNH

Arizona Sheriff Orders Fingerprinting When Traffic Citations Issued

BETH DeFALCO
Associated Press

PHOENIX (AP) -- Pulling out a license, registration and proof of insurance may no longer be enough for some Phoenix-area drivers who are being ticketed.

Maricopa County sheriff's deputies began Thursday asking all drivers who receive a criminal traffic citation to allow themselves to be fingerprinted. It's part of a new pilot program Sheriff Joe Arpaio says will help fight identity theft in Phoenix, which has the highest per-capita rate of identity theft complaints in the country, according to the Federal Trade Commission.

In 2003, there were 6,832 cases of identity theft statewide, or 122.4 per 100,000 residents. The Phoenix area had 5,042 of those cases, or 155 per 100,000 residents. Statistics for 2004 were expected to be similar, according to the FTC.

"It's a huge problem and law enforcement needs to be proactive in fighting it,'' Arpaio said.

Deputies started carrying inkless fingerprint pads and were asking for a thumbprint from drivers given criminal tickets - such as those issued for excessive speeding. Most moving violations are civil offenses.

Arpaio said the program was being tested in communities southwest of Phoenix - a socially and racially diverse 5,000-square-mile area patrolled by sheriff's deputies.

Arpaio said the new procedure is designed to ensure the person who committed the offense is the same person being charged with a crime in the courtroom. Fingerprinting would help identify people with stolen or falsified driver's licenses, he said.

Arpaio stressed that giving fingerprints would be voluntary, but constitutional law experts and civil rights groups were quick to point out problems with the program. Many doubted whether the public would understand that they weren't required to give their fingerprint.

"It won't be completely voluntary,'' said Paul Bender, a constitutional law professor at Arizona State University. "Most people don't realize they have a choice. The police likely won't say 'Would you like to give us your fingerprints even though you don't really have to?'"

Bender also questioned how fingerprints would ultimately be used. Arpaio said the prints would be randomly entered into a fingerprint ID system to cross check them with identity theft claims and other crimes.

"The sheriff doesn't have the right to make that extra intrusion on someone's privacy under the state constitution,'' Bender said, adding that he doesn't think Arpaio should be undertaking such a pilot program without a mandate from the Legislature.

Eleanor Eisenberg, executive director for the Arizona chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, called the fingerprint program "an example of putting the cart before the horse.''

The chapter was looking into whether the program infringes on privacy rights, Eisenberg said.

"The standard is not whether we have anything to hide,'' she said, "It's 'Does the government have a right to invade our privacy?'''

Scottsdale Justice of the Peace Michael Reagan - who is not a lawyer - said he thinks giving over a thumbprint is a small inconvenience compared to the hassle of trying to prove identity theft.

"I'm seeing more and more people with warrants issued for their arrest and they have no idea what it's about,'' he said.

"We then have to have an identity hearing, which forces me to become a handwriting expert, and I'm not qualified,'' Reagan said. "If you had something to fall back on, it would help get them out of this hole that someone else dug for them.''

Posted by: Wolfman

A thumbprint is more or less a photograph of the surface of your thumb. It not exactly a colonoscopy. If it's OK to have a picture of your FACE on your license, why not a picture of your THUMB? No one sems to have a problem when you have to submit a fingerprint for a LTC, why not for a LTD(rive a car)? Which kills and injures more people every year - cars or guns?

Why is your FACE on your license? To identify you, of course. Your photograph and signature are kept on file and are perfectly acceptable for identification purposes, why not a picture of your thumb? Where's the intrusion here - I don't see it. No one's taking DNA samples here. It's just another way that these bleeding heart liberal idiots can protect criminals.

Posted by: JoninNH

That thumbprint, it doesn't look like you.

Every time you see "constitutional law expert" you might as well say bleeding heart liberal.

Liberals suck.

Posted by: mpd61

Arizona= Nice weather...........

Posted by: Clouseau

I like the idea.
I have arrested 5-6 people that had m/v citations in their pockets or mv's issued to them. Once fingerprinted, we would find out that they were not the individuals they claimed to be to the officers that issued them the cite's. Some had fake ID's, others knew enough about the individual they claimed to be to be able to bluff the officer issuing the cite.

Posted by: JeepinWeezle

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this until i read everything about it...but....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfman";p=&quot

A thumbprint is more or less a photograph of the surface of your thumb.

Yes but it is a little bit more personal than your face, your face is always visible. I'm just looking at it on the other side.

Quote:

No one's taking DNA samples here. It's just another way that these bleeding heart liberal idiots can protect criminals.

The problem is that it is one step closer. We want to live in a free society, but then we dont at the same time.

Just playing devil's advocate. It is a good idea, if it is accepted by society.

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

In Florida, if a person doesn't have their license with them, the officer will take a thumb print of the operator, which is placed on the rear of the citation. Its done everyday here and its stood up in court as a positive identification of the driver. Its extremely helpful in identity theft cases.

Posted by: JeepinWeezle

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop";p=&quot

In Florida, if a person doesn't have their license with them, the officer will take a thumb print of the operator, which is placed on the rear of the citation. Its done everyday here and its stood up in court as a positive identification of the driver. Its extremely helpful in identity theft cases.

This i can understand....

Posted by: EOD1

this civil law lawyer will be the 1st one bitching the police aren't doing enough when he becomes a victim of id theft.

simple solution don't friggin speed, run stop signs or other infractions and u won't have to worry about getting friggin finger printed.

Posted by: masstoazcop

I live and work ( Police Officer) outside of Phoenix, Arizona and I just have to laugh at the news article. I've been taking violators thumb prints for the past four years and only had one person refuse. I have a violator give me their thumb prints just to avoid any identity issues in court. Believe it or not, there are people out there who will try ever excuss to get out of a traffic cite and one of the excusses is "it wasn't me driving"

It's no different when the bank teller ask you for your thumb print, for certain transactions. I don't see the ACLU itching a fit about that!!.

Posted by: kwflatbed

Notary's in MA now require a print for thier logs and
paperwork.

Posted by: Wolfman

I sitll think a print is less intrusive than a photo and more useful for a positive identification - thus protecting people from false identifications based on a similarity of facial features.

Posted by: frapmpd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeepinWeezle";p=&quot

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this until i read everything about it...but....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfman";p=&quot

A thumbprint is more or less a photograph of the surface of your thumb.

Yes but it is a little bit more personal than your face, your face is always visible. I'm just looking at it on the other side.

Quote:

No one's taking DNA samples here. It's just another way that these bleeding heart liberal idiots can protect criminals.

The problem is that it is one step closer. We want to live in a free society, but then we dont at the same time.

Just playing devil's advocate. It is a good idea, if it is accepted by society.

They are not strip searching the operator, they are taking a thumb print. Hold your finger out the window, roll it on a pad, and place it on paper, with an inkless method. That is not that intrusive in the grand scheme of things, since there is a specific purpose of combating ID theft. Just think about it, almost everywhere you go these days your on camera even when you don't know about it. Government or private buildings or even during a traffic stop (not sure how many in Mass use them). Having a thumb print taken voluntarily to ensure proper ID is far less intrusive than a camera that can be zoomed anywhere and have a picture of you.

This just sounds like the ACLU having a bone to pick with Sheriff Arpaio. He has pushed the envelope in the past by feeding the prisoners bologna sandwiches and making them pay for them, bringing back chain gangs, and dressing the prisoners in pink and housing them in a tent jail complex to "cut costs". Sounds to me like they are just waiting for him to flinch and then claim he is violating everyones rights

Posted by: RPD931

I don't see how a fingerprint infringes privacy, it's positive identification.

Posted by: Sgt_110

I'm a Sergeant in a small campus police department, in addition to my other duties, I'm also serve as a Notary Public.

Guess what?

When I'm asked to notorize something; You sign on the dotted line in front of me...I also take your thumbprint in my ledgerbook.

Nothing says this is who I really am, like loops and whurls on a fingerprint.

Posted by: frapmpd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPD931";p=&quot

I don't see how a fingerprint infringes privacy, it's positive identification.

Unfortunately the ACLU in their infinate wisdom thinks otherwise. They clog the courts with more BS cases claiming how peoples rights are violated when the issues are very practical and make total sense.

Posted by: EOD1

yeah that sheriff is great. he is funny as hell @ least in the interviews i have seen. he doesn't pamper those guys at all its great. the press and liberals are always saying that treating them like people works, the sheriff's philosophy is slightly different he is more along the lines of treating them like the murdering, drug dealing, raping scum that they are. I am sure the press is gunning for him to try to make headlines.

Posted by: masstoazcop

Sheriff Joe has been a target of the ACLU since he took office in 1993. They have filed numerous BS law suits against him for they way he treats his imates. Sheriff Joe is know to institute many different/weird policies. He now requires detention officers to secure inmates with "pink handcuffs". According to Sheriff Joe, he purchased pink handcuffs to reduce the number of lost/stolen handcuffs.

I used to work for Sheriff Joe as a deputy sheriff and I can tell you that he tends to treat his staff (detention and deputies) as if they were inmates.

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