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Main Page Does your dept. have alternate duty for pregnant officers?
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: girlcop21

Just looking for information so it can be brought up at my department's next contract session... NOT looking for an argument as to why female cops shouldn't be pregnant or shouldn't be offered light duty.

I was wondering if any departments; municipal, state or campus, had anything in place for female police officers when they become pregnant.

Do departments...

1. offer light duty, and if so, what type?

2. utilize the same policy for pregnant officers and for officers injured on duty (light duty status)

3. require the female officer to work as much as possible and then have her utilize sick time?

4. How is your department's light duty status handled... case by case or by the book every time..?

5. is your policy covered in your union contract and or Rules & Regs?

6. have nothing in place...?

Thanks for your help!

Posted by: mpd61

My last gig had NO provisions for light duty of any kind. (AFSCME School)
Your last and only protection might be FMLA for the twelve week thing.

Good luck!

Posted by: 94c

Light duty doesn't exist. You're either injured or not.

We're lucky to have enough inside jobs that will toss some poor slob out onto the street until she is ready to go and have the child.

Posted by: testtaker

Our contract says Pg officers have to work the road until thier eight month, then light duty if available then leave of absense. Of course FMLA will also kick in. Both male and female officers get the FMLA - 12 weeks. I guess the union doesn't care much about thier Pg members.

Department practice is that when a Pg female officer wants off the road she gets it, light duty (typically after first trimester). When male officers can pass a bowling ball through an orfice, they can ask for time off too!

The way I see it, we have a long term investment in all officers, if an officer has a ligit issue we help take care of it as much as we can. What is good for the family is good for the agency. When the family is happy, the officer is happy. To force a 7 month pregnant officer to work the street or take time off is not productive anyway you cut it.

Posted by: jyanis

There is case law on this subject.

Posted by: LA Copper

My Department has about 500 officers light duty at any one time. Mostly due to IOD, non-IOD injuries and pregnancies.

I don't understand why any department wouldn't have light duty positions, especially for an officer who was rightously injured on duty. Does that mean a person who is hurt has to sit at home doing nothing? Why should a full duty officer work inside when a light duty person could take their place?

As for pregnant employees, they all work inside in a light duty capacity, usually until a few weeks before they're due. After that it's sick time.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

Light duty doesn't exist. You're either injured or not.

We have light duty for pregnant, LOD injured, and just plain injured (off the job) officers.

If it's a LOD injury they can't put you light duty until 60 days have passed, and even then you still get 111F benefits while doing light duty.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

Interesting. With us you're either IOD or you're not.
They naturally make exceptions for pregnancies.

On a rare occasion they may allow someone hurt off the job to do light duty but only for the hardship and after he has exhausted all his comp/personal/vacation/sick time.

Some guys break a leg off the job and are back in a couple of months.

Some guys break a finger and aren't seen for a year.

(If the officer is not a sick leave abuser, then we can create a sick leave bank for him.)

Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

Some dont break anything and aren't seen for rest of their career!!! On the job retired

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

(If the officer is not a sick leave abuser, then we can create a sick leave bank for him.)

We have a sick bank with enough days in it to carry the entire department for almost 2 years.

Posted by: Mitpo62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Wampanoag

Some dont break anything and aren't seen for rest of their career!!! On the job retired

They usually see "Dr. Summeroff" just before promotional exams.

Posted by: kojack1

Isn't that the truth!!!!

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitpo62

They usually see "Dr. Summeroff" just before promotional exams.

It's falling on the ice or out of the chair that causes the lower back soft tissue injury which allows them to stay out for 6 months before the exam, and also causes the almost inevitable amnesia when they do get promoted, so they instantly forget where they came from.

Posted by: Efox

'Our contract says Pg officers have to work the road until thier eight month'

Ridiculous in too many ways to name here.

Like jyanis said, case law would dictate otherwise. That aside, I cannot imagine any officer squeezing into a vest, buckling up an XXXL gunbelt and rolling out on patrol at eight months along, (it was hard enough doing it for just the first few months of mine!)

Posted by: OCKS

It is only common sense, common decency and liability protection to let a pregnant officer(if she chooses) off the street way before the 8th month. Every dept. should have some inside lt. duty type job she could productively fill. Dispatch, paperwork, special project that nobody has been able to get around too.

Posted by: female p.o.

Pregnant Officers are on the road until their 8th month?! Are you kidding me? I was a pregnant cop and I told my dept. when I was 3 months from the day I told them I stayed in and answered the phones.. I couldn't fit into my uniform and I sure as hell wasn't going to risk my baby's life by going on the road and dealing with some shitbag.

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

And what do departments do that are too small and cannot find any specific duty for them?

Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutOfManyOne

And what do departments do that are too small and cannot find any specific duty for them?

There's always some type of administrative job to do. Any good command staff officer can find some type of admin project for a light duty officer to do, regardless whether they are pregnant or injured on-duty... Or maybe assist with dispatching or DARE or training, etc.

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Maybe on your large PD, but when a department has 8-12 officers and are running at a bare minimum and dispatchers are their own union and officers cannot work dispatch, there is nto much you can do.

Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutOfManyOne

Maybe on your large PD, but when a department has 8-12 officers and are running at a bare minimum and dispatchers are their own union and officers cannot work dispatch, there is nto much you can do.

Even if there are only two officers on the department, there still has got to be admin work that needs to be done.

Stuff doesn't just happen. Paperwork always has to be filled out. Equipment, personnel, grants, etc, just don't happen by magic. Paperwork always needs to be completed and turned in to someone, regardless of whether the department has nine officers or 9,000.

And if the dispatcher union won't allow a legitamately light duty person to assist in dispatching, then shame on them. It's supposed to be for the good of the cause, for the people we are all sworn to serve.

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Wishful thinking but all that magical stuff gets done by an administrative assistant. So what do you do if you take a preganant officer off the shift, now there are no longer minimum two officers on shift, just one as the PD has no money for OT to cover it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyanis

There is case law on this subject.

What case law? The only thing there that is out there is FMLA.

Posted by: LA Copper

How about giving the administrative assistant an assistant?

You seem to be looking for reasons to keep light duty folks from working. Instead of fighting it, how about trying to help. One day this might be you looking for that light duty job, even if it's only for a short time.

Sometimes sitting at home, even when you're getting paid isn't always a good thing for a light duty officer, whether they're pregnant or injured on-duty.

An officer I work with was shot four times (that's right, four times!) this past January. He was back to work, LIGHT DUTY, in two months. Getting back to work with the guys was good for his recovery, both physically and mentally. We didn't have a light duty job for him at that time but we created one for him. I'm sure any department, no matter how small could do the same. All it takes is a creative mind and someone willing to help.

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Pregnancy is not a disability or work injury therefore does not qualify for light duty.

Quote:

An officer I work with was shot four times (that's right, four times!) this past January

God Bless him, but these females were shot four times too, not bullets though.

Posted by: LA Copper

I agree being pregnant is not a work related disability, however, if an officer is willing to be productive in some fashion rather than sitting at home, I say more power to her!

Maybe she could update the department's website. I've checked out a lot of New England department websites over the last few years and some of them looked like they weren't updated for years. If she isn't too familiar with computers, that would be a good time to learn. That's just another idea among others already mentioned.

My point is we're all family on this job, regardless how big or how small our departments are... we should be taking care of each other, not the opposite.

Maybe I have a strong sense of brotherhood for this job because my department has lost 36 officers killed in the line of duty since I've been on the job so maybe I have a stronger understanding why we should do the right thing for each other.

Just my opinion after 19 years on the streets.

Posted by: cmagryan

'Pregnancy is not a disability or work injury therefore does not qualify for light duty'.

How about stress related issues? Not 'disability' in the medical sense. We had an officer suffer the horrific loss of his newborn baby last year, through horrible circumstances. Did I or anyone else I directly work with, question his time off?? Nope. Did we care if it was labeled as sick, vacation, comp, whatever?? Nope. Not our concern....as long as he worked through it all and got back at his own pace. He was inside for a while, that was fine, too. His business. He was productive inside, and was happy being back. Our small agency found some great projects for him that were long overdue!!

It could be you one day, any of us, one day ..... looking for some flexibility and a break...

Posted by: Efox

'these females were shot four times too, not bullets though.

'

- Aren't you friends with any of 'these females'?? During my pregnancies and subsequently inside duties, my co-workers, (all male officers), were my salvation. Hourly food deliveries, relief for numerous breaks, prank calls making fun of my growing size ...!

- The way I saw it, I was always loyal to them on the street, and they returned the favor when I was stuck inside for many months. Worked out fine. With all the reports, citation entry, copies, phone calls, etc etc, I often think I did more during that time inside than I do outside sometimes!!

- Btw, we are a small department and never had anything formal in writing, we just dealt with it as it came along... worked out for everyone. The administration needs to work something out if they have female officers on the department. It's not rocket science...

Posted by: girlcop21

I thought we were getting a little off topic at first, but I am happy to see the exchange of ideas that are being thrown back and forth. A lot of the negative comments that are being said are what I had to deal with during my first pregnancy and an unwilling command staff. After burning over 2 weeks of sick time, my union finally worked something out, but not in my exact department.

EFox, lacopper, thanks for your insight and positive comments... while my new department is small, my new boss has been willing to be the good guy when it comes to helping pregnant dispatchers and an officer that was injured off duty and needed light duty to recover. While I think my boss is going to be willing to help, I am just trying to get as much info as possible so when the time comes, my union and I will be ready. Thanks again for all your comments and knowledge... keep it coming! Stay safe out there!

Posted by: billb

Does your dept. have alternate duty for pregnant officers?

Yes.

Annual PT test and annual fire arms certification is waived, alternate uniform is authorized, taken off of patrol and sent to "back office" position.

Posted by: Monk

In my department light duty is taboo, it occurs from time to time but if anyone asks if we have it the answer is “NO”. Honestly IMO it’s a double-edged sword.

Here are the two scenarios that are always hot topics amongst members.

If you’re an officer and you have a minor temporary injury whether it may be a pregnancy or a hurt arm you are expected by management to perform your duties according to your job description. If you cannot the answer is “sorry no light duty” and your out, you use your sick time till you are capable of coming back.

You keep it under wraps you limp, drag, or crawl your self into work and hope that the OIC can assign you a duty (preferably dispatch) that you can perform without becoming a liability. If not you get “sorry no light duty”. In this situation you could possibly salvage a couple of days from your time off banks and possibly not go off the books.

The reason that the word “Light Duty” is taboo is because in the past is that in one incident a member was IOD with a back injury and was nearing his retirement (couple of years) and just waiting for the numbers to match up so he could get out with a check. Not a check – or a check + just a check. What happened was that he was offered a light duty position that had nothing related to police work, if I recall correctly. Hypothetically we will just say he was offered a position as a courier with his current salary. To make a long story short, he refused, was fired, on disability with no check from his employer and had to hire an attorney to get compensated. He fought this and based on the fact that we had no ‘light duty’ he won. Was reimbursed back pay and was retired. If we had a light duty policy in place he would have been “Sucking Canal Water” ~Capt. Cardalino~ and would have had to limp, drag, and crawl around our jurisdiction delivering mail till he could retire with a check or take it early and accept the check-.

Posted by: pahapoika

from what i'm told the DOC has no official policy , but as a courtesy will place pregnant officers in a "no inmate contact" area ( usually a control room /office )

use to see them with their uniform shirt hanging out and the blue sweat pants

it's a little easier to hide now with the BDU's

apparently it depends on the individual , but some women work up until just days of their delivery

they're allowed 8 weeks for a normal birth and 12 weeks for a c-section. ( using their own sick time of course )

We didn't have a light duty job for him at that time but we created one for him.

know one small department that's trying to get a extra desk job "on paper" for the same reason

Posted by: Born-2B-Blue

No, we don't. The mindset it that it is not the dept's responsiblity to keep the fetus safe, it is the parents; as federal law states.

If you feel you cannot do your job as hired, you should use accrued time and use FMLA. That is your responsibility to the dept. who hired you, to your health, and your child's health.

Some have used this to abuse getting out of shifts or duties they do not prefer. Very frowned upon. It sends a clear message. Good luck.

Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born-2B-Blue

No, we don't. The mindset it that it is not the dept's responsiblity to keep the fetus safe, it is the parents; as federal law states.

If you feel you cannot do your job as hired, you should use accrued time and use FMLA. That is your responsibility to the dept. who hired you, to your health, and your child's health.

Some have used this to abuse getting out of shifts or duties they do not prefer. Very frowned upon. It sends a clear message. Good luck.

It's rather obvious that it's the mother's responsibility to take care of her own unborn child, that's not the point of this thread.

I'm wondering why it's the officer's responsibility to her department to use accrued time? Why not allow her (and any other officer who is hurt) to be a productive member of the department in some other capacity? There's always something that needs to be done no matter what size the department.

In my opinion, and it's just that, my opinion, it is archaic to have a policy that requires an officer to use sick time, vacation time, etc, when they actually want to be at work and make themselves useful.

My department has plenty of female officers who become pregnant, my wife included, and they've all worked (light duty) right up until they were about to give birth. It's beneficial to all involved. Same goes for officers who are hurt, regardless whether they're hurt on or off-duty, but especially on-duty. It's called forward thinking and being progressive.

Posted by: Monk

I can't post a link because im too new here otherwise I would .... but go to Police Chief Magazine [DOT] org and search for "pregnancy policy".

You should come up with this article ... If you all havnt already read it.

Pregnancy Policy: Law and Philosophy
By Karen J. Kruger, Senior Assistant County Attorney and Counsel to the Sheriff, Harford County, Maryland

Posted by: screamineagle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born-2B-Blue

No, we don't. The mindset it that it is not the dept's responsiblity to keep the fetus safe, it is the parents; as federal law states.

If you feel you cannot do your job as hired, you should use accrued time and use FMLA. That is your responsibility to the dept. who hired you, to your health, and your child's health.

Some have used this to abuse getting out of shifts or duties they do not prefer. Very frowned upon. It sends a clear message. Good luck.

are you fucking kidding me?!?!?!?!? you think they would rather pop a kid out thatn direct traffic? that is the most asinine thing I have ever seen on here. Grow up asshat.

Posted by: JoninNH

Gotta love posts like Born-to-BooHoo's post... they create an account and spout shit with the very first (and likely to be only) post they make. Way to go, fucktard.

Posted by: cmagryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by screamineagle

are you fucking kidding me?!?!?!?!? you think they would rather pop a kid out than direct traffic?

Having done both, I can tell you without hesitation, that traffic posts are easier.

Posted by: Monk

Lets not let this thread go s#%t .... Im sure thats not what he meant.

Im sure he "wasnt" talking about the the fact a women would plan a pregnancy to get out of work. But more the fact of the controversial grey area where a PG female can still perform her responsibilities if she elects too.

The first trimester..... or

She can elect to go LD....

By Karen J. Kruger, Senior Assistant County Attorney and Counsel to the Sheriff, Harford County, Maryland

Employers may not change a pregnant employee's assignment against her will based on stereotypes about what types of work pregnant women should do, concerns about public perceptions of pregnant officers, or notions of fetal protection.A pregnant employee should not be forced into a light duty assignment as long as she is physically able to perform her regular assignment. Likewise, she should not be permitted to elect a light duty assignment before it is medically necessary, unless other, nonpregnant employees are allowed to make this election.
A word about notions of fetal protection: in UAW v. Johnson Controls,the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that employers may not have fetal protection policies that exclude women from certain hazardous jobs, even if the intent of the policy is benevolent. Under title 7, decisions about the welfare of future children are the responsibility of parents, not employers. Under this case, "women as capable of doing their jobs as their male counterparts may not be forced to choose between having a child and having a job. "An employer "may only take into account the woman's ability to get her job done,"not whether the job poses a risk to the fetus.

Posted by: Born-2B-Blue

Thank you, Monk. There is someone on this thread who is mature enough to understand something other than the "entitlement" way of thinking and expressing oneself in a mature manner (without swearing).

The PG female officer isn't "hurt" (BTW) which I find to be a bit of an insulting way to define a condition of that nature. Planned or unplanned life changes (spouses death, family sickness, pregnancy) are all acceptable for a company to expect the employee to use their accrued time.

I took this job knowing that I am not limited to provide the dept. of what they expect of me. If that changes; I would take responsibility for myself and my decision.

Posted by: Born-2B-Blue

I agree Monk. Thank you for being mature and being rational who can handle a debate fit for an adult.

My thoughts are not antiquated they are just not as entitled than some others opinions. Don't think that there wasn't an officer out there that thought this would be a perfect scenario to benefit themselves; if and you do...you are extremely vulnerable. If one works with someone with that mindset, keep at arms length. They only think of themselves and not the dept. as a whole. Non team player.

My life decisions or happenings (death of a spouse, family illness, surgery, pregnancy) are not my employers. I would expect to be able to use the my time that was a BENEFIT for me when I signed onto the job. If I cannot meet the expectations of that job, then I would make an educated decision as to what would benefit me and my family.

Using my earned time; expecting limitations being set (taken off the street) and having a federal law back me up if my employer is irrational with my wants and needs.

Being pregnancy is not an injury. If is a planned or unplanned happening in life. You were not IOD.

Posted by: Efox

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Copper

It's rather obvious that it's the mother's responsibility to take care of her own unborn child, that's not the point of this thread.

In my opinion, and it's just that, my opinion, it is archaic to have a policy that requires an officer to use sick time, vacation time, etc, when they actually want to be at work and make themselves useful.

My department has plenty of female officers who become pregnant, my wife included, and they've all worked (light duty) right up until they were about to give birth. It's beneficial to all involved. Same goes for officers who are hurt, regardless whether they're hurt on or off-duty, but especially on-duty. It's called forward thinking and being progressive.

LA and others obviously do not hold any deep-dark hostility towards women on this job. I feel that is what it all comes down to, disguised in a 'poor-me, anti-pregnancy becuase you can't do your job' post.

Move along.

Posted by: Born-2B-Blue

I disagree with your analogy. I'm just not so anti establishment. I agree with treating everyone the same and fairly. Isn't that what this is about?

Posted by: kttref

I've said it before...I'll say it again.

In my department: a preggers female is put on "Light Duty" for the entirety of her pregnancy...after that she is allowed however much time she needs (within reason, the accepted norms is 3 months) to recoup and get back on the job, 100% healed, etc.

That time off is unpaid...if we want it paid we best have 3 months of sick time/comp time/vacation built up.

I've been on just under 3 years...we're trying to get pregnant...i have 2 weeks vacation, about 20 sick days, and 7 comp days....guess what...I'm not gonna get paid for awhile after I have a baby...(but that's at minimum another 9 months away)...and if for some reason a preggers female gets put on bedrest, etc...that may be unpaid as well.

It sucks but it happens. We're lucky to have light duty...I'm even luckier then some that I have specialized talents which would keep me out of records for 9 months (I'd go f'n nuts)....a lot of departments don't even have that option.

GirlCop - PM me for info if you need it.

Posted by: doubleup

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born-2B-Blue

I'm just not so anti establishment.

What? Come in from left field, Please.

Posted by: screamineagle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born-2B-Blue

Some have used this to abuse getting out of shifts or duties they do not prefer. Very frowned upon. It sends a clear message.

thats not what he meant? its doesn't leave much room for interpretation if you ask me. How else can that statement be taken?

Posted by: Monk

Here is a hypothetical and just that, hypothetical ….Lets just try to leave gender out of this. Lets just say a person was to undergo some type of elective/cosmetic surgery say Gastric Bypass amongst many.

Its one of the road supervisors, and your staffing levels are at minimum. The loss whether it be patrol or command staff will create hardships for everyone. Mainly that of forced overtime, that already exists due to staffing levels. Say this person will be out of the rotation for a year after the surgery (hypothetical remember) due to complications or whatever reason. (The reason for the one-year time frame is that a pregnancy could cause one to be out of the rotation for a maximum of 8 months on light duty and then out on the 120-day (4 months) for FMLA.

Should the union fight for this person to be allowed to go on light duty? Should a sick bank be exhausted for this person? What if it were alcoholism which we all know is labeled as a disease and this person is a functioning alcoholic .06 24/7 and in need of detoxification?

Remember the original statement by girlcop21 . “Just looking for information so it can be brought up at my department's next contract session.”

These are the keys here …. “Union and Contract.”

Now just remember just because LD does not exist there are still options and the federal government has already recognized this and put it in place (FMLA). I still think for a union to bargain this in their contract is somewhat of a double edge sword. Management on the other hand may look at it differently…I can only speculate.

Posted by: cmagryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlcop21

I was wondering if any departments; municipal, state or campus, had anything in place for female police officers when they become pregnant.

- I think it's WAY off topic to go into these far-fetched scenarios. This was put out for those with information regarding police officers and pregnancy - not gastric bypass or face lifts ...

- Those of us with a working knowledge of this topic, police officers who have had children while on the job, have touched base with girlcop and offered our individual experiences. I feel we can best speak to this, with an unmatched understanding of all sides.

- Thankfully, myself and others have been able to successfully work out our schedules, duties and time off with fair and supportive administrators. They recognize that we give ourselves, our best, our nights and holidays for this job - and to juggle a few things around to keep a trained, hard-working employee on board for the long-haul, is little sacrifice in the big picture.

- Perhaps others will want to address elective surgery and the hundreds of other 'what if's' in the world.... I'll pass.

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