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Question On Quinn Bill

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: Inspector

I see you have attached a list of Quinn Bill approved institutions to this site. It will have no impact on me but I was wondering what happens to a newly hired police officer in Massachusetts who holds a degree in criminal justice from another state or a major college not on that list? In New Hampshire there is no set bill which regulates college incentive, rather this is a matter of individual department contracts and some specify simply a "degree in criminal justice related studies" is required while other contracts leave a broad latitude to the studies which will allow pay upgrade. What happens to someone who is hired and has a masters degree say from Boston University in public administration with a minor in psychology and is currently taking courses over at Suffolk Law? Is he kept at the "no degree level" while someone with an Associates from Curry advances? Seems to me the degree from any institute, like BU or BC should get reward for the time he/she spent and the money invested if a law enforcement career is chosen.


Posted by: Delta784

You can submit your transcripts and a prospectus to the Board of Higher Education for a waiver, but the degree better be in CJ or very close.

If someone has a degree in Criminology from Florida State they will most likely get the waiver. A degree in Public Administration from any school probably will not.


Posted by: Gil

Q: I enrolled in a Bachelor Degree program in Criminal Justice prior to January 1, 2004, and graduated from the program. The school is out-of-state and is not a NEASC-accredited institution. Am I eligible for PCIPP benefits?

A: No. An officer that has enrolled in a Bachelor Degree program in Criminal Justice prior to January 1, 2004, must attend a NEASC-accredited institution as one of the eligibility requirements. He/she must also have met the academic requirements as listed in the response to the FAQ: If I enrolled in a program prior to January 1, 2004, which institutions are PCIPP eligible? in this section (ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS).

http://www.osfa.mass.edu/quinnbill/faq.asp

Eligible Institutions

http://www.osfa.mass.edu/quinnbill/e...stitutions.asp


Posted by: DJM1968

Anyone have any experience w/ Northeastern's Master's Degree in Criminal Science program? Is it worth the hassle?


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJM1968
Anyone have any experience w/ Northeastern's Master's Degree in Criminal Science program? Is it worth the hassle?
It will get you the same 25% as the Anna Maria or Curry programs.


Posted by: DJM1968

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
It will get you the same 25% as the Anna Maria or Curry programs.


Yeah, but will a prospective employer say: "he just went through the motions" or will he say "@#*&, maybe this guy knows what the !@$% he's taking about"?


Posted by: Crvtte65

The master's won't help you get hired... only promoted. If even that


Posted by: chief801

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crvtte65
The master's won't help you get hired... only promoted. If even that
That is only true for civil circus departments. It carries tons of weight in non-civil circus departments for both initial hire and promotion...


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJM1968


Yeah, but will a prospective employer say: "he just went through the motions" or will he say "@#*&, maybe this guy knows what the !@$% he's taking about"?
Take it from someone who did it the hard way; take the path of least resistance, collect the 25%, and smile all the way to the bank.


Posted by: Crvtte65

Quote:
Originally Posted by chief801
That is only true for civil circus departments. It carries tons of weight in non-civil circus departments for both initial hire and promotion...
Playing the odds, majority are CS


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crvtte65
Playing the odds, majority are CS
Not to mention, chances are your hiring/promotion board will consist of people who most likely have WNEC/Curry/Anna Maria degrees themselves.


Posted by: Mitpo62

We have an "enhanced" Quinn Bill. "Degree? You don't need no stinkin' degree, man!"


Posted by: Inspector

Thanks for the info. guys. I am one who feels I'd rather work with a number of officers with degrees in various backgrounds, including but not limited to C.J. majors. Setting up an incentive program which fails to allow for a broader education will keep many highly qualified people from the job.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector
Setting up an incentive program which fails to allow for a broader education will keep many highly qualified people from the job.
If someone doesn't want to be a police officer just because their college degree doesn't qualify for the Quinn Bill, I certainly don't want them working with me because they want the job for all the wrong reasons and obviously don't handle adversity well.

Many people on my department came on with degrees in fields except Criminal Justice; they've all gone on to earn (or are in the process of earning) their CJ degrees to qualify for the Quinn Bill.


Posted by: chief801

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crvtte65
Playing the odds, majority are CS
Depends where you are in the state and the size of your department...out my way the majority are not civil service and the trend has been to do away with it.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
Not to mention, chances are your hiring/promotion board will consist of people who most likely have WNEC/Curry/Anna Maria degrees themselves.
WNEC has dismantled, Curry in Worcester is closing and Anna Banana is too expensive. Worcester State is about half price for the same program, minus state tuition break, military tuition waiver, and some apprenticeship check I get every month from Uncle Sam = gettin' mine on the cheap.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
WNEC has dismantled, Curry in Worcester is closing and Anna Banana is too expensive. Worcester State is about half price for the same program, minus state tuition break, military tuition waiver, and some apprenticeship check I get every month from Uncle Sam = gettin' mine on the cheap.
I hear you....I got my Master's from UMass-Lowell for free because of the veteran's waiver. It was 18 months of hell, but saved me about $15,000.

Still, Anna Maria & Curry pretty much have a stranglehold back East although I've heard WNEC is going to pull a Lazarus.


Posted by: mikemac64

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
although I've heard WNEC is going to pull a Lazarus.
Delta: WNEC is considering re-opening? I always felt the best thing about WNEC was the tuition payment plan and the class schedules. The work, hard or easy, is not an issue for me.

Sine: Are you in Grad or Undergrad at WSC?


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemac64
Delta: WNEC is considering re-opening?
That's what I heard from someone "in the know". They had to pull the plug on their off-campus LE/CJA programs after the new standards were implemented because they didn't have the requisite number of Ph.D. faculty, but apparently are re-tooling to have another go at the Board of Higher Education.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemac64
Delta: WNEC is considering re-opening? I always felt the best thing about WNEC was the tuition payment plan and the class schedules. The work, hard or easy, is not an issue for me.

Sine: Are you in Grad or Undergrad at WSC?
Still working on the undergrad. Painfull, but they tell me it's worth it.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
Still working on the undergrad. Painfull, but they tell me it's worth it.
It is; 20% on your salary for the rest of your career and then your pension for the rest of your life.

If I may offer a suggestion; start graduate school ASAP after you finish your undergrad, while you're still in the "school" mindset. It's easy to rationalize that it's only a 5% difference, but that's big money over 20+ years. I took one semester off after getting my undergrad, and knew if I didn't go back right then I never would.


Posted by: mikemac64

I've considered it but life changes are abound (no, there is not closet involved). Plus we may be ponying up for private school for my oldest next year.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
It is; 20% on your salary for the rest of your career and then your pension for the rest of your life.

If I may offer a suggestion; start graduate school ASAP after you finish your undergrad, while you're still in the "school" mindset. It's easy to rationalize that it's only a 5% difference, but that's big money over 20+ years. I took one semester off after getting my undergrad, and knew if I didn't go back right then I never would.
I was in Framingham State back in 91-92 after 5 years active duty and never finished. Since finishing the SPA I've been a full time student.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemac64
I've considered it but life changes are abound (no, there is not closet involved). Plus we may be ponying up for private school for my oldest next year.
You have to at least get your Associate's degree; 10% is nothing to sneeze at, plus you'll be "in the system" so if they ever try to eliminate the program, you'll be grandfathered in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
I was in Framingham State back in 91-92 after 5 years active duty and never finished. Since finishing the SPA I've been a full time student.
I took a similar path, although I did the drinking instead of studying before I went into the service. I told my father he should be grateful I only wasted a couple of month's tuition instead of a whole year.

As crazy as it sounds now, once you have your Master's and are done, you're going to miss school.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
I took a similar path, although I did the drinking instead of studying before I went into the service. I told my father he should be grateful I only wasted a couple of month's tuition instead of a whole year.
Being stationed in Germany at 18 y/o, I was killing brain cells AND getting a paycheck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
As crazy as it sounds now, once you have your Master's and are done, you're going to miss school.
Only the scenery . I'll probably never finish school with plans of going to law school after my masters.


Posted by: mikemac64

I have the BS degree, I was speaking of graduate school.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
Only the scenery . I'll probably never finish school with plans of going to law school after my masters.
I actually work with a half-dozen guys with law degrees, and only one is doing anything with it (real estate closings). A Master's gets you the same 25%, and saves you about $60-80K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemac64
I have the BS degree, I was speaking of graduate school.
Ahh...okay. A lot of my co-workers haven't made the jump to graduate school; it can be hard to justify a year+ and $15K for another 5%.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
I actually work with a half-dozen guys with law degrees, and only one is doing anything with it (real estate closings). A Master's gets you the same 25%, and saves you about $60-80K.
I'm just looking at years from now, what to do when this ride is over. Not necessarily practice law, but building upon the resume for a "consultant" job in one of those over-paid think tanks .


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
I'm just looking at years from now, what to do when this ride is over. Not necessarily practice law, but building upon the resume for a "consultant" job in one of those over-paid think tanks .
Just as long as you realize you'll be excommunicated from MassCops as soon as you pass the Bar.


Posted by: Sgt K

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
Just as long as you realize you'll be excommunicated from MassCops as soon as you pass the Bar.
Does that mean I'm out? I finish law school tonight and take February's bar. Can I at least get a reprieve until May when the scores come out?
</IMG>


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt K
Does that mean I'm out? I finish law school tonight and take February's bar. Can I at least get a reprieve until May when the scores come out?
You can request a special dispensation if you swear to never enter a criminal courtroom except in the capacity of police officer or prosecutor.


Posted by: Sgt K

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
You can request a special dispensation if you swear to never enter a criminal courtroom except in the capacity of police officer or prosecutor.
Consider it done! I'm into Personal Injury and Tort litigation. Can't really lock someone up on Friday and defend them on Monday? I'll take the car crashes, product defect cases, and slip and falls any day......I'll sleep better at night.


Posted by: Crvtte65

Yea I'll vouch for Sgt K on that he won't be one that flips to the other side. He has too much fun doing what he does


Posted by: chief801

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
I'm just looking at years from now, what to do when this ride is over. Not necessarily practice law, but building upon the resume for a "consultant" job in one of those over-paid think tanks .
If you are looking for the "think tank" or consulting job consider your doctorate over a J.D. That goes for college teaching as well.

Many J.D.'s are being left out in the cold when it comes to full-time teaching positions since the new Quinn Bill requirements for certified programs took hold. All certified programs have to have 2/3 of their C.J. faculty holding a doctorate in CJ or related field. They are not counting the J.D.

I found a good program up at Franklin Pierce. It is a Doctor of Arts in Transformational Leadership. By focusing on the law and policy track, it opens up a ton of opportunities in both CJ and private sector for those of you who do not want to go to law school and practice law. The schedule is outstanding. We meet one weekend(either Fri.-Sat. or Sat.-Sun.) per month instead of heading to school 2 or 3 days a week. During the weeks between classes, we submit assignments online and participate in online discussions. The whole thing can be completed in 4 years. I know of at least four other cops in the program right now and the program is in it's second year.


Posted by: j809

Do you have to write a thesis too?


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by j809
Do you have to write a thesis too?
In the US, a thesis is a significant research project at the end of a master's program. An academic doctoral degree requires a dissertation which is an original contribution to the knowledge in your field of study.

For many master's programs a thesis is optional, but any credible doctoral program will require a dissertation.


Posted by: chief801

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
In the US, a thesis is a significant research project at the end of a master's program. An academic doctoral degree requires a dissertation which is an original contribution to the knowledge in your field of study.

For many master's programs a thesis is optional, but any credible doctoral program will require a dissertation.
A dissertation is required and is generally what you spend the last year working on. In addition to the dissertation, we have to complete two internships. If you take two courses per quarter you can get the coursework done in two years with the third year for your dissertation.

If you take one per quarter, coursework will take 4 years and your fifth year would be for dissertation. I figure it'll take somewhere around four years because I can't see doubling up on courses during the two quarters you spend doing the internships.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by chief801
If you are looking for the "think tank" or consulting job consider your doctorate over a J.D. That goes for college teaching as well.

Many J.D.'s are being left out in the cold when it comes to full-time teaching positions since the new Quinn Bill requirements for certified programs took hold. All certified programs have to have 2/3 of their C.J. faculty holding a doctorate in CJ or related field. They are not counting the J.D.

I found a good program up at Franklin Pierce. It is a Doctor of Arts in Transformational Leadership. By focusing on the law and policy track, it opens up a ton of opportunities in both CJ and private sector for those of you who do not want to go to law school and practice law. The schedule is outstanding. We meet one weekend(either Fri.-Sat. or Sat.-Sun.) per month instead of heading to school 2 or 3 days a week. During the weeks between classes, we submit assignments online and participate in online discussions. The whole thing can be completed in 4 years. I know of at least four other cops in the program right now and the program is in it's second year.
I will look into that. I have to focus on one degree at a time for now.


Posted by: samadam78

I have a bachelors degree in CJ from a school listed on the "old" list but it is not on the "new" list. I was attending school prior to Jan. 1,2004 but I'm not on the job yet. If I get hired will I be eligible or is the Jan. 1, 2004 only for officers that were all ready on the job at the time of this "new" list?
thanks


Posted by: WaterPistola

join the club, i was attending a school on the old list but didnt declare the major until sept 2004 so it doesn't count. it's not for if you were on the job before jan 1, 2004, it is if you were enrolled in the CJ major prior to jan 1, 04. i talked to my advisor and she said there are no plans on trying to become state certified for the Quinn bill anytime soon.


Posted by: samadam78

Thank you.
I'm lucky then I was in the CJ program from 00-04 so i should be all set whenever i finally get on.


Posted by: JeepGirl

Does anyone know of a list of Departments that HAVE the Quinn Bill???


Posted by: HB7220PD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGirl View Post
Does anyone know of a list of Departments that HAVE the Quinn Bill???
Programs Approved for Police Career Incentive Pay Program aka Quinn Bill
1. American International CollegeBachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
2. Anna Maria College Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
3. Anna Maria College Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice/ Division of Professional Studies
4. Anna Maria College Master of Science in Criminal Justice
5. Bridgewater State College Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
6. Bridgewater State College Master of Science in Criminal Justice
7. Bristol Community CollegeAssociate in Science in Criminal Justice
8. Bunker Hill Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
9. Cape Cod Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
10. Curry College Bachelor of Arts in Criminal Justice
11. Curry College Master of Arts in Criminal Justice
12. Dean College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
13. Endicott College Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
14. Fitchburg State College Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
15. Greenfield Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
16. Holyoke Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
17. Lasell College Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
18. Mass Bay Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
19. Massasoit Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
20. Middlesex Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
21. Mount Wachusett Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
22. Northeastern UniversityMaster of Science in Criminal Justice
23. Northeastern UniversityBachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
24. Northern Essex Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
25. North Shore Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
26. Norwich University Bachelor of Arts in Criminal Justice
27. Quincy College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
28. Quinsigamond Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
29. Roger Williams University Master of Arts in Criminal Justice
30. Roxbury Community College Associate in Science in Criminal Justice
31. Salem State College Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
32. Springfield Technical Community College Associate in Science in Law Enforcement/ Criminal Justice
33. University of Massachusetts Boston Bachelor of Arts in Criminal Justice
34. University of Massachusetts Lowell Master of Arts in Criminal Justice
35. University of Massachusetts Lowell Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
36. University of New Haven Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
37. Western New England College Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
38. Westfield State College Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
39. Westfield State College Master of Science in Criminal Justice
40. Worcester State College Bachelor of Science in Criminal Justice
Compiled by the Massachusetts Board of Higher Education
Updated July 18, 2007


Posted by: JeepGirl

Thanks for that...

Maybe I said it wrong...

See, I already HAVE the degree.... and am looking for a list of Departments that would actually PAY me for having it - as my current one does not.


Thanks


Posted by: HB7220PD

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGirl View Post
Does anyone know of a list of Departments that HAVE the Quinn Bill???

In what area of the state are you looking to work at? and are you already academy trained?

HB7220PD


Posted by: WaterPistola

you think because i was enrolled at the school before 2004, but not the major i may get it?


Posted by: JeepGirl

Massachusetts
Full time Academy
7+ years experience


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepGirl View Post
Does anyone know of a list of Departments that HAVE the Quinn Bill???
This is the contact info on the Quinn Bill website; if anyone would know, it would probably be them.

The Massachusetts Office of Student Financial Assistance

454 Broadway, Suite 200
Revere, Massachusetts 02151

Phone: (617) 727-9420
Fax: (617) 727-0667




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