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Main Page Middlesex Sherriff's office Questions
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: nervousmark

heya, folks. I'm brand new to this forum, but I have some questions you could probably answer very quickly.

I'm a former cop in Colorado. I got into an online argument with a guy who said some pretty stupid things in my opinion. The argument started with a YouTube style posting of a police chase recorded by several dash cams. The video ended with a cruiser rolling up the scene with the suspect trying to drive away and a Sgt up on the hood (kneeling) of the suspect's car unloading his firearm through the windshield into the driver. As is common in dash cam recordings, you don't get to see everything that lead up to the deadly force situation. Some guy claiming to be a 20yr deputy of the Middlesex SO said that he hoped the cops got suspended and that more or less they should have followed standard procedure and shot out the tires of the vehicle and should not have shot the suspect--much less in the face. I called him a liar saying that 1). A 20yr veteran would know better than to criticize other officers in a deadly force situation especially when they couldn't see all the events that lead up to the need to shoot. 2.) Proceedures vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction regarding disabling vehicles, that there is NO STANDARD procedure for every department requiring disabling the tires of a vehicle before deadly force is appropriate. He said that in the State of Massachusetts, it is procedure to shoot out the tires. Those are his exact words: "shoot out the tires". Is that really true? and finally 3.) He clearly had little to no understanding of the laws regarding the use of deadly force. I say that meaning when deadly force is deemed warranted by an officer, there are no off-limit areas to which a suspect can be shot. I was specifically responding to his claim that they were violating procedure by shooting the suspect in the face.

I told him to provide a copy of his P.O.S.T. certificate proving he had ever passed a certified training academy. He sent me a copy of a certificate showing he was certified as a reserve deputy as of January 14th of this year. Apparently Massachusetts calls their Police Officer Standards Training by a different acronym? I did think it odd that a supposed 20 yr veteran would want to stay on as a reserve, but he said it was so that he could work in the Youth Academy. Of all his arguments, that one actually was the most plausible.

If anybody is a long time veteran of the Middlesex SO, I'd sure like to speak with you offline or by private email. I should probably just let this whole thing go because I'm pretty sure I know the truth, but it's just hard to let this BS slide--especially when the comments are disparaging to the profession.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark

Posted by: bbelichick

Sheriffs are not cops in Massachusetts.

He's full of garbage.

Posted by: nervousmark

Thanks for the quick reply, sir. What exactly is their function, detention? Do they go through the same training regarding use of force as regular patrol officers?

I'm getting the feeling that a reserve deputy for a SO in Massachusetts is roughly the NFL equivalent of the backup quarterback on the team's practice squad.

Any idea who I could speak to at the SO's office there just to validate that his certificate is genuine?

Thanks again,
Mark

Posted by: kwflatbed

all the info you need is here: http://www.middlesexsheriff.org/

Public Safety is our Public Service -

established in 1643, Middlesex is one of the oldest sheriff's offices in the United States.
Although the Middlesex Sheriff's Office is statutorily entrusted with full law enforcement
capacities within the jurisdiction of Middlesex County, the primary responsibility is the
care, custody and control of inmates and detainees within Middlesex County.
This function is carried out at the Cambridge Jail and the Billerica House of Correction.
Additionally, the Middlesex Sheriff's Office is responsible for the Sheriff's Office of
Civil Process and the Cambridge and Lowell Community Counseling Centers.

Posted by: nervousmark

thank you. I appreciate the info. Forgive any disrespect from my last post. A CO's job is tough in its own right.

Here in Colorado, a deputy starts in corrections/detention/court duty and then applies to the patrol division if that is something they wish to pursue. In all cases, they get the same training and are vested with the same powers that any police officer is.

It appears that there is some animosity between SO's and patrol departments out there, so I'm starting to understand the criticism this guy made. I don't agree with it, but at least I'm starting to understand it.

M

Posted by: SinePari

Quote:

Originally Posted by nervousmark

thank you. I appreciate the info. Forgive any disrespect from my last post. A CO's job is tough in its own right.

Here in Colorado, a deputy starts in corrections/detention/court duty and then applies to the patrol division if that is something they wish to pursue. In all cases, they get the same training and are vested with the same powers that any police officer is.

It appears that there is some animosity between SO's and patrol departments out there, so I'm starting to understand the criticism this guy made. I don't agree with it, but at least I'm starting to understand it.

M

Just read a few threads in the "Sheriffs" section with more than 10 posts, and you'll find a little animosity here as well.

Posted by: 94c

Here in Ma. the guys who can't be cops become deputies.

Then they brag about all their powers and duties that stem from the days of the Roman Empire.

Posted by: JLT770

as for that video, i know it came from Cincinnati, Ohio. Blue Ash to be exact, so maybe that will help you with this guys opinion on it being from Mass.

Posted by: Gil

Blue Ash Ohio police chase for those of you that have not seen it...

http://www.youtube.com/v/5Y08Ne0TiB8...0f0f0&border=1

Posted by: mpd61

YIKES!!!
Looks like the driver had a deathwish of sorts. If I wasn't told it was Blue Ash, I mighta thought it was the Beaureu of Engraving and Printing guys!

Posted by: nirtallica

Quote:

Originally Posted by nervousmark

Thanks for the quick reply, sir. What exactly is their function, detention? Do they go through the same training regarding use of force as regular patrol officers?

I'm getting the feeling that a reserve deputy for a SO in Massachusetts is roughly the NFL equivalent of the backup quarterback on the team's practice squad.

Any idea who I could speak to at the SO's office there just to validate that his certificate is genuine?

Thanks again,
Mark

More like the E level team in Pop Warner!

Posted by: Delta784

Police officers in Massachusetts have all the respect in the world for deputy sheriffs who know their job and stick to it; the care, control, and transport of inmates either awaiting trial or sentenced to less than 2 1/2 years time.

Deputy sheriffs in Massachusetts have no patrol function.

None.

As far as shooting out tires, I've never heard that as standard procedure anywhere. Emergencies can sometimes dictate unorthodox tactics, but as far as being SOP your online friend is full of shit.

Posted by: dano448

Nirtallica,

Easy there. My son plays on the Pop Warner E-Team!

Posted by: Tuna

Shooting out tires??? that guy has been watching too much TV

Posted by: SOT

My advice:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

As far as shooting out tires, I've never heard that as standard procedure anywhere. Emergencies can sometimes dictate unorthodox tactics, but as far as being SOP your online friend is full of shit.

Oddly down in NC, some departments have as part of their SOP the use of firearms to disable tires.
I to several departments in NC for shotguns specifically designed to shred tires...well they are designed to destroy tires without fear of over penetration and ricochet. I asked what they are for, and they stated that they had some training and now use the shotgun, in concert with this ammo to disable fleeing vehicles.

To be honest it was like a faucet that turned on...I was a dealer for this ammo, never sold any then in one week, I got like 25 or so RFP for the ammo.

Posted by: nervousmark

true...and I won the gold medal in the event. Next time I'll know better.

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