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Main Page Needham Murder/Tactical Response
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: Sircopalot

Im sure most of you saw the incident on television in Needham last week at a coffee shop that followed a murder. From what I saw on TV I think it was good learning as how NOT to conduct a tactical operation. Through my eyes it looked like something out of the 70's with cops, wearing every type of uniform imaginable, converging on a location like a pack of dogs on a meat train. The whole situation seem to lack leadership. There was even one clip inwhich the Chief of Wellesley and the Chief of Needham actually pointed guns at each other as the suspect came out from the coffee shop, it was shocking to watch... There were enough cops there that the Chief should be in a command post somewhere and not on the scene. And the Wellesley Chief should probably have been back in Wellesley and not 15 Ft from the supect as he came out. I know its easy for me to crituque from my living room and Im not trying to put anyone down. but the guys on the ground know what to do....A little guidance and leadership would have gone a long way....

Posted by: Badge 2

Sircopalot, I'm a little confused by your post part of it is really good then the other part doesn't make any sense. Your last sentence states "A little guidance and leadership would have gone a long way...." Wasn't there 2 Chiefs there? How much more leadership do you want? Again I not saying that they should have or shouldn't have been there but they were there!

Again I agree with you that I don't think you were trying to bash anyone but that is how the bashing starts with one out of place statement to throw your whole posting away!

Posted by: fightingsolveseverything

Sounds good in theory but good luck telling two chiefs what to do especially around here. I’ve been involved in a lot of tactical operations and sadly unless guys get trained and buy into the training, that type of response is exactly what you can expect, so get used to it. training cost money and money is short. if you haven't figured it out around here most incidents run a little cowboy'ish, things unfortunately don't change unless someone gets hurt. I don't agree with it but when you only have seconds to make a decision that’s just the way it works. Do I worry about a chief/ic standing to close or do i worry about the bad guy in front of me. I’ll deal with the bad guy. Needham from what I’ve been told was very dynamic, with a lot of conflicting info floating around, the guys did the best they could with what they had. It’s easy to second guess an operation when you’re in front of the computer, not quite the same when people are screaming for help. I’m sure they'll debrief the incident and work out the issues in-house.. Especially the "guys in different uniforms" problem, that’s a real deal breaker in a critical incident.(not)..they were in uniforms who cares what they looked like, there was a murderer on the run in a neighborhood..unless you prepared to call the chief /chiefs and offer some viable assistance you may want to just be happy it wasn't you calling the shots. Just a thought..FSE

Posted by: Sircopalot

My point on the uniforms is that there were so many people converged in the area, with probably a dozen or so different departments represented that a mall cop with a blue strip on his pants could have squeezed himself up to the front with anyone noticing. Someone should have calling the shots, either the Chief or another competent leader. But to have two police chiefs, one in a coat and tie, standing next to tactical officers with automatic rifles is nonsense. I counted at least 6 officers who got lasered by these Chiefs... And I will reiterate that I believe this video will someday be used in training on how not to conduct a tactical operation with most of the glaring mistakes commited by the commanders on scene....

Posted by: OCKS

I would have to agree that once the response became tactical SWAT STOP whoever, the black and whites should of held perimeters. Certainly a chief shouldn't have been runing down the street causing a crossfire situation. Just shows that when the shit hits the fan, shit goes everywhere. All's well that ends well though they locked up a murder and handled a sp person possible gun. The way the girl at the pizza shop was screaming on 911 I would have called in the 82 Airborne.

Posted by: Mikey682

I liked the uniform on the guy that actually caught the suspect.

Posted by: Sniper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey682

I liked the uniform on the guy that actually caught the suspect.

WOOF.

Posted by: fightingsolveseverything

Yeah, i think thats a Needham detective. Nice work..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey682

I liked the uniform on the guy that actually caught the suspect.

Posted by: Sircopalot

Actually its Chuck Atchison... A well Known Pilot for the State Police from the South Shore.....

Posted by: rg1283

What I'm interested in is did both METROLEC and MSP work together or did both just show up? I wasn't there so I will not critque, bottom line the suspect was caught before causing further mayham and damage.

Posted by: fightingsolveseverything

Quote:

Originally Posted by rg1283

What I'm interested in is did both METROLEC and MSP work together or did both just show up? I wasn't there so I will not critque, bottom line the suspect was caught before causing further mayham and damage.

i'm not sure on metro, i can find out easy enough. more to follow.
MSP "just show up" they never do that. FSE

Posted by: kwflatbed

We don't need a fight club on this !!!!

"METROLEC and MSP work together or did both just show up."

Both were called asked to assist.

Posted by: rg1283

Fair enough, like I said what matters is that the suspect was caught. Now that idiot in the pizza shop thats another story

Posted by: Deuce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sircopalot

Actually its Chuck Atchison... A well Known Pilot for the State Police from the South Shore.....

Sooo, did he fast rope down on the bad guy or just lower the helo low enough and jump on top of him? The image of Rambo with a knife firmly gripped in his mouth comes to mind..

Posted by: Sniper

Chuck grew two more legs and a tail huh ?????

Posted by: 94c

K-9 Helicopters. What will they think of next?

Posted by: Sniper

hahahahhaaaa

Posted by: Sircopalot

The Chief in Needham is asking why Metrolec took so long to get there. Apparently the call went out and after three hours there was still only a few tactical guys there. The kicker being his own officer, who is on the tactical team didnt even show up....

Posted by: sempergumby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sircopalot

The Chief in Needham is asking why Metrolec took so long to get there. Apparently the call went out and after three hours there was still only a few tactical guys there. The kicker being his own officer, who is on the tactical team didnt even show up....

Man I have no Idea who is feeding you bad Info!!!!!!!!!!!! you might not want to post crappy info like that.

Just a friendly word of advice

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