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Main Page BDU uniforms for every day patrol
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: Motor23

Do you know any departments that wear BDU uniforms for every day patrol. I'm looking for the pro's and con's of this uniform for every day use.

Posted by: GuyS

Worcester Airport Police wear them, although, I'm not sure what they patrol

Posted by: j809

I think Auburn PD was until a couple of years ago. Saugus does too.

Posted by: Crvtte65

Wellfleet can use the regular pant or the kind with side pocket.. street gear or whatever, though not the regular BDU its something other than the normal pant

Posted by: rg1283

Besides Auburn and special OPS units, I can't think of any towns that wear BDU uniforms as an everyday uniform. Auburn did use them or still does. Here are 2 articles from the Telegram and Gazette from back in 1998:

Copyright Worcester Telegram & Gazette Dec 16, 1998

AUBURN - Under fire for using military-style fatigues, Auburn police are defending their uniform as a matter of comfort and practicality.
The defense comes from Police Chief Ronald W. Miller over complaints about the black, loose-fitting uniforms.

SOME ARE INTIMIDATED

While some residents have complained privately to selectmen, the issue surfaced publicly Monday, when David Murphy of Prospect Street argued the uniforms are intimidating to the public and may foster aggressiveness by some officers.
Miller countered yesterday by saying, "I see no logic to that, whatsoever."
Murphy asked selectmen to urge police to scrap the uniforms in favor of more traditional uniforms once worn by Auburn police. Traditional uniforms are not as intimidating, Murphy said.
He is among several residents who recently alleged misconduct and excessive force at the hands of [an auburn] Police Officer . Some of the allegations are under investigation by Lt. Thomas Shannon.
While selectmen said they cannot tell police what kind of uniform to wear, they also said they have complained to Miller about the uniforms, to no avail.
The old Auburn police uniforms were similar to uniforms now worn by Worcester police, Miller said yesterday. They were "LAPD-style" shirts - dark navy blue, with pants to match.
Murphy is vowing to take the matter to town meeting members, along with an effort to reduce the authority of the police chief. The chief now operates under the "strong chief" provision in state law.
Auburn police started wearing the military-style uniforms in 1994, Miller said. They are known as "utilities," or BDUs, which means battle dress uniforms.
The change occurred because some officers complained to Miller that the old uniforms were neither comfortable nor practical.
"They are extremely expensive. They have to be dry-cleaned. They don't wear well. They tear easily," Miller said yesterday about the old uniforms.
Also, the old uniforms do not adapt well to adverse weather conditions. Cold weather gear isn't as easily worn under the old uniforms, nor is a bullet-proof vest. The leather belt gear to hold equipment is heavy and stiff, Miller said.
So, Miller said, he told officers to look into other uniform options. Patrolmen recommended the BDUs, because they were more convenient and durable.
Miller said he has not gotten any complaints from citizens about the uniforms and officers seem happy with the BDUs.
The only complaint he has heard was from Selectman John D. Briggs, who told Miller that many residents called him to complain about the severe look of the uniforms.
Miller said he had asked Briggs for their names so he could contact them to explain why the uniforms were chosen. Briggs told him he did not know the residents' names.
Miller said he does not recall talking to any other selectman about the uniforms.

`FRIENDLY ATTITUDE'

Since the Police Department began using the uniforms, Miller said, he has gotten good comments about them.
Miller said he insisted that officers' name tags be on the front of the uniform.
When the uniform change was made, Miller said, he told officers it would be a radical change and they should "go out of their way to present a friendly attitude."
Because of their ease of care and use, BDUs are worn by a few specialized units of the state police such as the truck and SWAT teams, and K-9 officers; however, state troopers wear traditional uniforms on patrol.
Very few police departments use BDUs in this region. Miller said he thought there were a few, but he did not know which ones. Tan BDUs are used more in the Southwest and some Southern states, he said.
According to Tony Trippi, of Trippi's Uniforms Inc. in Shrewsbury, the majority of police departments in this area prefer "the kinder, gentler look" of traditional uniforms.

TRIED, THEN SWITCHED

Upton and Sutton experimented with BDUs for a short time, but switched back to traditional uniforms.

Sutton Police Chief John L. Hebert yesterday said his officers agreed to bring back the traditional uniforms because they looked more professional.
Upton Police Chief Thomas B. Stockwell said that while BDUs were comfortable and easy to work in, they are too hard to keep looking good. They attracted a lot of lint, he said.
In addition, Stockwell said, "I did not think they looked very professional."
Another factor, Stockwell said, "They weren't received real well by the community."

NO SLAVES TO TRADITION

Some residents thought they looked too much like military uniforms, he said.
Miller, though, indicated police should not be forced to go back to the old uniforms as slaves to tradition. Officers involved in dangerous work should be dressed and equipped to handle the problems they confront each day, Miller said, and the uniform makes that easier.
"I think it does not make sense to hold onto something just because it is a tradition," Miller said.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have no problems with officers wearing BDUs, as long as they have a badge visible. I think whats more foolish are those stupid yellow polo shirt uniforms that certain departments use for details (and now even for regular patrol). Unless your on Marine Patrol or Bike Patrol those uniforms are foolish and make a police officer look like unprofessional.

Posted by: Delta784

PRO: You have an excuse to look unprofessional.

CON: You look like a bum.

Posted by: Barbrady

The DOC wears the Blauer version (or at least they did) and I know they do not "patrol"....the BDU is work appropriate for them.

Pros: Comfortable, rugged, easier to maintain.

I think they should be reserved for special teams like K9, Commercial
Enforcement, etc.

Posted by: badgebunny

Warren wears a BDU style uniform for their daily patrol uniform. IMO they look very professional and are quite sharp.

Posted by: dave7336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

PRO: You have an excuse to look unprofessional.

CON: You look like a bum.

\\

agree 100%

Feel the same way about wearing shorts on patrol and details...we are starting to look like we should be driving a FedEx truck

Posted by: SinePari

I would love to wear BDUs while performing specialized patrol duties, but the poly's seem to be working fine so far. Image is everything these days.

Posted by: 40th MPOC#309

I'm gonna get my first set this week. I wore them for years in the military and they ARE comfortable. I'm going to be doing Commercial Motor Vehicle enforcement and I think they are more practical for this type of task. I do think that our regular uniform is much more professional though......

Posted by: TopCop24

Lawrence used to, not sure if they still do

Posted by: Inspector

Shorts okay for beach foot patrols and pedal bikes....bdu's okay for k-9 and truck teams otherwise be professional. That's my opinion.

Posted by: SOT

The further militarization of police departments...BDU = Battle Dress Uniform...about the only police that "need" or should wear BDU's are SWAT team members and K-9.
Want to wear BDU's ever day, join the military or upgrade to a SWAT team or K-9.
Edit: yeah the guys that climb around trucks and stuff...that's good too.

Posted by: Wolfman

"Thank you for your cooperation."

Posted by: Killjoy

Agree with most here.

BDU's are excellent for the kind of work that will routinely get you filthy (truck team, K9, etc.) or when operational requirements outweigh any possible value in a professional look (SWAT, Riot Police). For the patrol officer dealing with the public on a regular basis traditional police uniforms definitely carry a more professional bearing and are instantly recognizable.

Something pointed out by my girlfriend is that BDU type uniforms are far more easily faked than traditional uniforms by whackers and criminals.

Posted by: rg1283

Good point about BDUs being faked. For one to fake a real police uniform it would be alot harder. Then again I wonder why Galls sells or did sell the generic looking police patches like you see on TV.

Posted by: girlcop21

my department, a State University, had been allowed to wear the Streetgear type of uniform for the summer. While I thought it was lighter and a bit more comfortable, I found that after only a few months the pants were worn and faded and did not look clean and crisp at all. The shirts didn't fit me right (had to get a men's size rather than women's) and just didn't look right. The boss apparently thought this too because come next summer, we have been informed that we will no longer have this uniform option.

On the flip side, some people in the community said that officers wearing these more "casual" uniforms looked more friendly and approachable.

To repeat what others have said, I think the BDU uniform is better for specialized units, not for every day patrol officers.

Posted by: Tuna

EPO's wear street gear for normal patrols. BDU style coveralls for SAR and other more critical functions. White polo and black shorts for boat patrols. Class "A" for court, PR, Details and shows. All function well for the specific job but no uniformity in their uniforms.

Posted by: Victory

Taunton Police...
BDU's are an optional uniform for patrol. I wear mine everyday (function over fashion)

Posted by: TheKid

At my dept we have the option of wearing the new 5.11 street gear. On the pro side, especially the pants are very comfortable. On the Con side, they're very baggy and you look like MC Hammer

Posted by: SGT_GRUNT_USMC

Here in LVMPD,we all wear a traditional police uniform for general Patrol.Traffic officers and Mounted Patrol officers wear a modified version of the patrol uniform and Bike officers and Enduro officers have their own unique bike uniform.Specialized units all have BDU's (i.e. SWAT,SERT,Gang Unit,K-9,Search and Rescue,Firearms Instructors,Air Support,etc.).The only patrol officers who wear BDU's are our Resident Officers who work in the rural posts outside the Las Vegas valley.They patrol the desert and mountain areas outside Las Vegas and the various small rural communities encompassing more than 8,000 square miles.But alot of times those guys may may have to hike up a mountain trail in November in 15 degree weather to rescue a lost hunter or hiker.

Posted by: RumRunner

I love the black BDU’s especially when worn by federal officers…I know it cranks up the conspiracy theorists when the see them. “Men in Black”

BDU’s are great for specialized duties, but you look much more professional in your poly’s. BDU’s have that F-K it kind of appearance.

Posted by: Foxy85

You want to be a police officer, then you need to look like a police officer...

BDU's....Polo shirts with embroidered police patch.....t-shirts....all that crap is just another product for gall's to make money on....

One needs to look the part.....I find that the rinkled BDU's look foolish on police officers...

To answer the question first posted though, Uxbridge P.D. is allowed to wears them in the winter during inclimate weather.... Blackstone P.D. wears them for regular patrol....

We're all on the same team and do the same job, but like I said....Dress the part....

Posted by: csauce777

If you even mention BDU's in my department, the Chief's head spins around and he froth's at the mouth.

Posted by: Foxy85

the mock turtle necks bother the piss out of me too....wear a god damn tie!

Posted by: RumRunner

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxy85

the mock turtle necks bother the piss out of me too....wear a god damn tie!

I’m a mock turtle neck and body armor guy myself complimented with a patrol jack. Who needs a blouse…

Posted by: 2-Delta

are we talking bloused or just traditional pants with leg pockets?

Posted by: Barbrady

We wear black Blauer pants w/cargo pocket (no blousing) and regular shirt.

Posted by: j809

Massasoit PD used to wear them for about a year.

Posted by: Macop

Ties are plain stupid. Someone said function over fashion, well said. Maybe "back in the day" the so called traditional uniforms were ok, but not today with the way things and attitudes evole. I think the residents of Auburn just have nothing better to bitch about. As for as looking professional, you can be as professional as you want to be. So by that argument no dept that wears tradtional uniforms has any Officer that looks like a bag. News flash you can look squared away or like a bag regardless of the uniform, that is a silly argument. And yeah screw mock turtle necks, where the real turtle necks. I would like to see open collar. Cops in AZ and NM have open collar shirts and thier uniforms still look as sharp as hell.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxy85

the mock turtle necks bother the piss out of me too....wear a god damn tie!

Positively, absolutely my Number One Pet Peeve is cops wearing turtlenecks. Are we a police department or a goddamned ski team????

Posted by: girlcop21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

Positively, absolutely my Number One Pet Peeve is cops wearing turtlenecks. Are we a police department or a goddamned ski team????

I hate ties!!! It's not right for women to have to wear those, and I'm not wearing one of those bow ties either! Besides, nothing like wrestling with a person and have them grabbing for that thing to pull.... I'm a wimp in the cold, so bring on the turtle neck!

Posted by: Macop

The hell hole you work in and ties are your pet peeve??

Posted by: SinePari

Function goes right out the window next Monday. We go back to the "invade Poland" look on Oct 15th.

Posted by: Barbrady

Yeah that sux. Gotta wear a tie with the long sleeves...my only other option is to wear the short sleeves year round.

Posted by: localboy

Function goes right out the window next Monday. We go back to the "invade Poland" look on Oct 15th.

Haha- nice "Departed" reference.

Holland used to wear BDU's on regular patrol, I think some officers may still wear them.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlcop21

They don't have clip-on, breakaway ties in your part of the world?

If you're cold, turn up the heat in the cruiser or zip your jacket up to cover your neck.

As for being a woman, you knew what the uniform was when you took the job. You want to be treated the same as male police officers, you're going to have to look like us also.

Posted by: csauce777

I hate ties, and luckily, we wear mock turtlenecks with the long sleeve shirts for patrol...although the boss wont say anything if we wear ties instead.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlcop21

maybe you gals should wear high heels instead of boots.

Posted by: Duff112

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinePari

Function goes right out the window next Monday. We go back to the "invade Poland" look on Oct 15th.

LOL

All I can think about in response is: (In Sergeant Shultz's accent)

"Herr Sinepari-

Iff You didn't vish to wear zee uniform of de Reichland Army, then you shouuldn't hav become a Troooper..."

"Zat is all... Diiiiiiismisseed!"

Posted by: SPINMASS

I don't mind the turtleneck with a sweater look. If your wearing the long sleeve shirt, wear the tie.

Posted by: Foxy85

Long sleeve shirt with an open collar/turtle neck = horrible looking....

Long sleeve with tie....classic and professional....

Used to be very militaristic with police uniforms in that, you wore what they gave you and you wore it the way they told you to....

Now it seems to have gone to the opposite extreme, where officers, and specificly the younger guys, want to wear everything BUT the traditional police uniform....BDU's/Polo shirts/cargo pants/shorts/turtle necks....

UGH!

Wear the proper, and I might add, better looking police uniform...being shirt tie, and traditional police pants.....Open "geek button" with short sleeves....

Everything else looks awful.

Comfort should not come first with the uniforms.... If thats the case, I'm suggesting the adult size one-piece pajamas with the zip up front and built in booties.....and the two button ass flap in the back... complete with an embroidered police patch of course....

Posted by: Barbrady

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxy85

If thats the case, I'm suggesting the adult size one-piece pajamas with the zip up front and built in booties.....and the two button ass flap in the back... complete with an embroidered police patch of course....

Lol, our last uniforms were from Spiewak's and they were traditional but felt like pajamas.

The ass flap would be really convenient.

Posted by: pahapoika

the DOC does have the BDU's and they look good for a couple of weeks and then most guys start looking like a bag of laundry.

although there's something to be said for the embroidered collar pins , badge and name tag.

BDU's look good if their pressed and starched , unfortunately our guys pull them out of the dryer and that's it .

talked to a Warren cop a couple of years ago ( Molly Bish Ride ) and he was wearing black BDU's. said it was standard issue for all their guys

Posted by: RPD931

My former Chief had mentioned that uniforms were discussed briefly in the FBI Natioanl Academy. Apparently some study showed Officers in BDU's (vs class A) were able to last longer in a physical confrontaion in the loose fitted clothing which obviously increases Officer Survival. He was sold on that thought (and in conjunction with us bugging him about changing it) which was the reason we switched to a "Class B" uniform which is a semi BDU style. They are sharp looking and still pretty easy to maintain. They do not provide much of the military style look, just an added comfort.

Posted by: HELPMe

BDU's need to be cleaned, ironed and starched just like any other uniform. If you dont then they will look like you did a 9 mile hump in the mud.

Posted by: Mitpo62

The BDU's and turtlenecks are a great fit with my thick graying beard...

Posted by: girlcop21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

1. Yes, I have clip on ties in my part of the world, just don't like wearing them and having them as an added acessory for some knuckle-head to grab.

2. If I'm cold, I do turn up the heat in the cruiser, but then again actually doing police work involves getting out of the cruiser and being exposed to the elements. I like to stay warm when I am outside in 20 degree weather that's where the turtleneck comes in.

3. As far as being a woman police officer...
How ignorant can you be? This isn't a conversation about females and males being treated the same, this is a conversation about ties! How does the wearing/not wearing a tie affect my performance on the job? That's right, it doesn't. I took the job for the job, not the uniform. Unlike some men on the site, I don't need to hide behind my uniform and gather my authority from wearing it. People respect me for the cop that I am, tie or no tie. What do you say about male police officers that don't where ties?

Posted by: Thimios315

Having worked with Girlcop21, I can verify that she did not take this job to look or feel a certain way. I've only known her to be squared away 100% of the time and she's doing this job for all the right reasons.

There are winter alternatives for the uniform, with the exception of the MSP, most departments authorize thier personnel to wear something other than the tie. If it's in your department's policy, then exercise it. If not, that's what union meetings are for and other avenues to make reasonable modifications to everyday working conditions.

I like the turtleneck and sweater combo, personally. On occasion - especially on late nights - the turtleneck, body armor and jacket are easier to work with when you have extra layers on to compensate for the cold.

Posted by: jyanis

Quote:

Originally Posted by rg1283

Besides Auburn and special OPS units, I can't think of any towns that wear BDU uniforms as an everyday uniform.

We use them in Douglas for our winter uniforms. We also use BDU pants and a lime polo for details throughout the year.

Posted by: Foxy85

You Douglas cops are aa breed of your own.....and you stole the Lime Green polo idea from Uxbridge P.D.

Posted by: jyanis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxy85

You Douglas cops are aa breed of your own.....and you stole the Lime Green polo idea from Uxbridge P.D.

There is no stealing in police work...just sharing of ideas...lol!

Posted by: Macop

Harwich, Wellflete, P-town, Yarmouth, and Barnstable wear the 511/street gear type uniforms. When I was in Chatham we asked the new chief for them, instead he turns around and takes away the turtle necks and goes to ties only, how stupid that was.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlcop21

1. Yes, I have clip on ties in my part of the world, just don't like wearing them and having them as an added acessory for some knuckle-head to grab.

In other words, you just don't like them. Boo-hoo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlcop21

2. If I'm cold, I do turn up the heat in the cruiser, but then again actually doing police work involves getting out of the cruiser and being exposed to the elements. I like to stay warm when I am outside in 20 degree weather that's where the turtleneck comes in.

Amazingly, police officers for the last 50+ years have managed to survive the outside elements while wearing a tie. Once again, boo-hoo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlcop21

3. As far as being a woman police officer...
How ignorant can you be? This isn't a conversation about females and males being treated the same, this is a conversation about ties! How does the wearing/not wearing a tie affect my performance on the job? That's right, it doesn't. I took the job for the job, not the uniform. Unlike some men on the site, I don't need to hide behind my uniform and gather my authority from wearing it. People respect me for the cop that I am, tie or no tie. What do you say about male police officers that don't where ties?

Using your reasoning, I should be able to wear jeans and a stained sweatshirt, as long as I wear a raid jacket over it to identify myself as a police officer. The hell with professionalism because it's all about comfort, right?

Posted by: lawdog671

Yes, I have clip on ties in my part of the world, just don't like wearing them and having them as an added acessory for some knuckle-head to grab.
Work on your patrol procedures and keep a safe distance away from people and so knuckle heads can't reach out and grab you. IF they do get a hand on you, that's why the ties break away. Just sounds like an excuse to be a slob.
.....but then again actually doing police work involves getting out of the cruiser and being exposed to the elements.
First you're assuming an awful lot about personal work habits here. That being said, how does a turtle neck or mock tee keep you warmer than a long sleeve uniform shirt with tie on and appropriate undergarments? Again, this is the manifestation of laziness, not a valid argument for functionality. According to that arguement, there no arrests made prior to mock tees and turtlenecks because cops weren't comfortable? Society, INCLUDING US, is just getting soft.

My personal opinion is that we wear uniforms for many reasons. One is to seperate you from the lemmings out there and makes you easy to pick out in chaos, by civilians AND other cops. When worn properly, and with some personal pride and military bearing, uniforms fall under your force continuum under COMMAND PRESCENSE. Someone earlier mentinoned an FBI study that said officers last longer in physical confrontations in looser fitting clothes. I would counter that with the FBI interviews of violent cons that chose which officers to attack based upon their personal appearance, INCLUDING the cleanliness and neatness of their uniform. Does it not make sense to avoid these attacks with a uniform that eschews professionalism and pride, and the appearance that you know your job and can handle yourself? I just think that all these variations of "uniforms" does not lend itself well to those ideals. Not to mention the fact that I've been on calls to assist ONE department, and saw three different uniforms with three different handguns (DIIFERENT THREAD ALTOGETHER!!..lol) and it seemed like I was there with different PD's. With the new underarmour and thinner cold weather gear, there is no reason to not wear regular uniforms.
Oh and before you whackers and other hardchargers break my balls, I was dressed to invade Poland all summer on horseback...lol...and still did my job ok. Just my two cents.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawdog671

Society, INCLUDING US, is just getting soft.

That's it, right there.

Posted by: Motor23

So from what I gather Trp's don't like BDU's except for special duties. Local cops don't like wearing ties and prefer to be comfortable. I myself prefer the turtle neck over the tie. It's not because I think someone is going to grab my tie, It's because I don't like ties. It is my belief and mine only, that a uniform does not make the cop, it's the person who wears the uniform and the pride they show that makes the uniform. For the people out their who became a cop to look good in a uniform probably got picked on in high school....but hey at least you look good now. Thanks for all of your imput on this thread.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlcop21

If I'm cold, I do turn up the heat in the cruiser, but then again actually doing police work involves getting out of the cruiser and being exposed to the elements. I like to stay warm when I am outside in 20 degree weather that's where the turtleneck comes in.

...and on the eighth day god created thermal underwear.

Hint...Don't turn up the heat in the cruiser. Keep it at a comfortable level so the difference in temperature doesn't affect you as much. Also, if you're out doing real police work you should be leaving your window partly open to be able to listen to your surroundings.

Even on the coldest days, the window was always open at least a quarter of the way.

Just something I learned while getting out of my cruiser doing police work.

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by j809

Massasoit PD used to wear them for about a year.

Quite right! But remember a certain sergeant didn't like the way they looked on the gluteus maximus, and told the chief that one trustee thought they were an intimidating uniform.= rewrite the policy, BDU's gone!

Thank God this sarge was able to get those Nomex gloves though!

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motor23

For the people out their who became a cop to look good in a uniform probably got picked on in high school....but hey at least you look good now.

So, everyone who takes pride in wearing a traditional police uniform got picked on in high school?

What a breathtakingly ignorant thing to say.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

So, everyone who takes pride in wearing a traditional police uniform got picked on in high school?

What a breathtakingly ignorant thing to say.

I'm sure his BDU's are more compatible with pushing cows off the road.

Posted by: LA Copper

I have to agree with lawdog... The uniform appearance, coupled with the way you carry yourself, is huge in our profession. I too have read a number of interviews of suspects who said that the only reason they didn't attack an officer at the time of their arrest is because the officer looked sharp, which led them to believe that the officer him/her self was sharp. I've also spoken to many myself, including MS-13 and Blood gangsters.

I've been a part of numerous spontaneous demonstrations where we were greatly outnumbered. However, we've always been able to control a crowd of hundreds with only a small squad of officers. That's because we not only "played the part" but looked the part as well.

Looking sharp is almost as important as feeling sharp. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression. The very first moment you see a suspect you should be sizing him up. The same thing goes for the suspect, they are sizing you up as soon as they see you. If you don't think that then you are naive.

My department wears ties with our Class A, which just means our long sleeves. I believe they do look sharp and have no problem wearing them. If someone gets a hold of it then good luck to them, it's not gonna hurt me. They are however going to regret having grabbed hold of it afterward!

I'm not a fan of BDUs for patrol out here though I could understand how they would be put to good use there in New England with the woods and bad winter weather.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Copper

I have to agree with lawdog... The uniform appearance, coupled with the way you carry yourself, is huge in our profession. I too have read a number of interviews of suspects who said that the only reason they didn't attack an officer at the time of their arrest is because the officer looked sharp, which led them to believe that the officer him/her self was sharp. I've also spoken to many myself, including MS-13 and Blood gangsters.

I've been a part of numerous spontaneous demonstrations where we were greatly outnumbered. However, we've always been able to control a crowd of hundreds with only a small squad of officers. That's because we not only "played the part" but looked the part as well.

Looking sharp is almost as important as feeling sharp. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression. The very first moment you see a suspect you should be sizing him up. The same thing goes for the suspect, they are sizing you up as soon as they see you. If you don't think that then you are naive.

My department wears ties with our Class A, which just means our long sleeves. I believe they do look sharp and have no problem wearing them. If someone gets a hold of it then good luck to them, it's not gonna hurt me. They are however going to regret having grabbed hold of it afterward!

I'm not a fan of BDUs for patrol out here though I could understand how they would be put to good use there in New England with the woods and bad winter weather.

Unfortunately, there are cops out there that just don't understand this concept. Once a slob always a slob.

Posted by: Foxy85

The whole arguement about how ties are uncomforatble or "they don't keep you as warm is crap....

-Ties coupled with the proper size collar on your shirt should feel as comfortable as a short sleeve shirt....should be be able to slide 2 fingers in the side of your neck with forcing them in...At least thats what the guy at Trippis told me, whose been selling uniforms for about 30+ years now....but he could be wrong too!

-That being said, and lets all walk through this together shall we.... When you take the right collar, and match/button it up with the left collar, it tends to rise up to a higher level, thus covering your neck.....The turtleneck doesn't come up any further than the uniform shirt.....it simply hugs your neck...at about the same height......providing just as much warmth....
.........................minus those freakishly odd huge turtleneck sweaters that were popular a year or two ago that the women wore...which only increased my hatred for them....

Wear the tie...love the tie.....BE THE TIE!

Posted by: Motor23

Delta, you must have missed understood the simple commet that you don't have to wear a traditional uniform to take pride in it. It's pretty simple it's the person behind the badge not the uniform that makes them. As stated by 94c it's time for me to start getting the cows off the road. If you have any tips on how to remove a mattress from the highway I'm eager to hang on your every word now.

Posted by: Foxy85

"missed understood" --- priceless...

Posted by: Mongo

Bottom line is if you are in shape, have a command apperance,and you are sqaured away in uniform to the point that others cut themselves on your'e creases. It doesen't matter if you are wearing BDU's or traditional class A uniform.Some agencies may require use of BDU's for different assignments or specific law enforcement roles that you may have to get dirty or could get dirty,and the alpha uniform is not practical for that role. I have seen Officers in BDU's look better than Officers in there dress campaign uniforms. If the uniform of the day calls for either BDU or class A it is your responsibilitie to look squared away.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motor23

If you have any tips on how to remove a mattress from the highway I'm eager to hang on your every word now.

1) Don latex (or non-latex) gloves.

2) Grab mattress by the handles on the sides.

3) Drag mattress to side of highway.

4) Toss mattress over guardrail.

If you can explain why you need BDU's to execute that simple task, it's my turn to hang on your every word.

Posted by: Mongo

I have a tip on removing matress.

Put phone or radio in hand and to head.

Call Mass Highway or DPW.

Instruct same to get matress outta the way.

If neither available ...utilize newbie and or dispathcher or rookie.

If outta them there options continue to march cuz it will only make feathers if vehicles travel over it.

Posted by: Foxy85

The springs in the matress could be utilized as make-shift stopsticks......

Posted by: girlcop21

it absolutely amazes me how one simple question (BDUs vs traditional uniforms) could elicit such hostile comments and finger pointing between people that have never seen each other, never mind seen each other work.

Each department has its own rules and regs regarding uniforms and what can/can't be worn. As long as you follow those rules, look good, and get the job done, does it really matter? Yes,there is an image to maintain and a sense of pride involved in wearing a uniform - one I hold very close. Obviously with the exception of a few people on this board (thank you Thimios) none have you have worked with me, let alone seen how I look in uniform. My shoes are shined every night, shirt and pants in great condition; clean and ironed and tucked in tight, but because I like to wear a turtle neck I am somehow a slob and a poor representative of this job? I like how statements about having the window down, not having the heat blasting, etc are thrown out? How do you know I don't do this already? That's right you don't. Get off your high horse and allow people to have their own opinion, that's right, something different than you, without worrying about being persecuted for their comment.

Posted by: Mongo

I think chicks in BDU's are hot.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlcop21

My shoes are shined every night, shirt and pants in great condition; clean and ironed and tucked in tight, but because I like to wear a turtle neck I am somehow a slob and a poor representative of this job?

It's the first step onto a very slippery slope. Why do you think we fight so hard against any modifications to paid details and the Quinn Bill? Because if you lose an inch, you soon lose a mile. I most certainly don't want to find myself wearing some ridiculous garb in 10 years because some cops find it more comfortable or it makes the public feel all warm and fuzzy.

The German Polizei tried the non-traditional uniform look during the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich. We all know how well that event turned out.

Posted by: phuzz01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

It's the first step onto a very slippery slope. Why do you think we fight so hard against any modifications to paid details and the Quinn Bill? Because if you lose an inch, you soon lose a mile.

My area is proof of that, Bruce. We have officers around here wearing khakis and polo shirts on patrol. We have officers wearing jeans and t-shirt with traffic vest on details. We have officers that wear bloused BDU pants and tactical BDU tops to court. It makes me embarassed to be in the same profession as them.

Count me in as one more vote for traditional poly uniform with tie.

Posted by: Macop

I thought this was a discussion about uniforms. Now its a crying contest between a few, keep to the topic.

ANY uniform worn properly weather it be street gear, 511, traditional, tie, turtle neck, sweater/turtle neck or what ever the hell you like can look sharp, squared away and professional. I'll say it again, we all know of cops who look like dirty sacs in thier uniforms, don't give some BS that it makes a difference the uniform that is worn. Either an Officer wears it correctly or not.

Posted by: Barbrady

Hey, has any one seen the latest South Park episode. Randy Marsh and Bono from U2 go back and forth to see who can hold the record for biggest tird....which is weighed by Kiriks(Katie). U2 ends up being the record and is consoled by sucking his daddy's bitty.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by phuzz01

Perfect example, thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop

ANY uniform worn properly weather it be street gear, 511, traditional, tie, turtle neck, sweater/turtle neck or what ever the hell you like can look sharp, squared away and professional. I'll say it again, we all know of cops who look like dirty sacs in thier uniforms, don't give some BS that it makes a difference the uniform that is worn. Either an Officer wears it correctly or not.

You can "correctly" wear an outfit that consists of khaki pants, and embroidered golf shirt and a baseball cap, and you'll still look like the biggest tool in the world when you have to break-up a bar fight.

Ironically, many of the turtleneck/golf shirt crowd will be the first to lament the softening of standards at the police academy. This is the same thing; if you whine about wearing a traditional uniform for 8 hours, I certainly don't want you backing me up on a hot call.

Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:

Originally Posted by phuzz01

Where are the supervisors? Why aren't they doing their job? Keeping your personnel squared away is one of those jobs. I'm a sergeant wtih the LAPD and one of my jobs is to make sure everyone looks squared away, that's why we have inspections once a week. I would think that supervisors with your department would have the same responsibility...

Posted by: topcop14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Copper

What if your Sergeant is one of the guys who looks like a bag of $?*T

Posted by: Mitpo62

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Copper

When you work in an environment where there is virtually no accountability and the biggest concern is you answer the radio and show up at calls, well "it is what it is."

Posted by: phuzz01

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Copper

First to clarify, my agency does not have that issue. We wear traditional state police uniforms and have frequent uniform and cruiser inspections. I was speaking of certain local agencies within my patrol area.

Second, the supervisors in these agencies that I speak of are part of the problem. Far from keeping their troops looking sharp, many of them are the worst offenders themselves.

Posted by: trigger409

Palmer PD was wearing the Blauer version, Springfield PD is authorized a BDU/cargo pant (Blauer or Fechheimer) but with a traditional uniform shirt. When i was with the K-9 unit we wire BDU's all the time. it was awesome for comfort and utility but did look sloppy after you had been out on a few calls. I found myself frequently fixing my shirt and trying to press the pockets back flat

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlcop21

I hate ties!!! It's not right for women to have to wear those, and I'm not wearing one of those bow ties either! Besides, nothing like wrestling with a person and have them grabbing for that thing to pull.... I'm a wimp in the cold, so bring on the turtle neck!

So, I guess you want to be treated equally as males when it comes to being a cop. Except for the tie of course.

Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:

Originally Posted by phuzz01

Understood. Every time I've seen Troopers from any of the New England states, they always look sharp, including New Hampshire.

Guess it starts when they're a boot and continues on up the ranks. That's really too bad because I firmly believe image is very important in our job. Is the chief as bad as his/her subordinates?

Posted by: Macop

Delta wrote:
This is the same thing; if you whine about wearing a traditional uniform for 8 hours, I certainly don't want you backing me up on a hot call.

Hey HERO, if you whine about wearing a alternative style uniform for 8HRs, I certainly don't want you backing me up on a hot call.

Turd, don't be so dramatic.

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop

Delta wrote:
This is the same thing; if you whine about wearing a traditional uniform for 8 hours, I certainly don't want you backing me up on a hot call.

Hey HERO, if you whine about wearing a alternative style uniform for 8HRs, I certainly don't want you backing me up on a hot call.

Turd, don't be so dramatic.

Aaron,
At least we're not talkin alternative life-style!

Posted by: CHICwithBADGE

I think BDUs for patrol officers look sloppy. A sharp uniform with shined boots (both toe & heels) commands respect. When someone shows up to a call looking like they just rolled out of bed or competed in the Tour De France, the public is less likely to respect your authority. A study of prisoners revealed that they were more likely to attack a police officer who looked like a bag than someone who takes pride in their appearance. One even said he went after a police officer because he had zippers sewn on his jump boots. It's not always about being comfortable. How about being safer? We need to shape up. The fat bag drinking a coffee and scarfing a donut (i.e. Chief Wiggum) in open view hurts are perception tremendously with the general public. BDUs look like pajamas. They suck and belong in bed, not on the streets.

Posted by: screamineagle

Bdu's can also be sharp looking, as long as you realize its not a wash and wear uniform. Press the pockets, give a sharp crease, they look good.

Posted by: Wolfman

Why did it take this long...

Posted by: Inspector71

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHICwithBADGE

I think BDUs for patrol officers look sloppy. A sharp uniform with shined boots (both toe & heels) commands respect. When someone shows up to a call looking like they just rolled out of bed or competed in the Tour De France, the public is less likely to respect your authority. A study of prisoners revealed that they were more likely to attack a police officer who looked like a bag than someone who takes pride in their appearance. One even said he went after a police officer because he had zippers sewn on his jump boots. It's not always about being comfortable. How about being safer? We need to shape up. The fat bag drinking a coffee and scarfing a donut (i.e. Chief Wiggum) in open view hurts are perception tremendously with the general public. BDUs look like pajamas. They suck and belong in bed, not on the streets.

Amazing how long it took for this dippie to post a long-winded rehash of "a study revealed this" and "unprofessional that". "BDUs belong in bed"? You should go back to bed sweetheart. Especially after the backpeddling BS you tried posting against Badgebunny you gas-bag!

Posted by: Barbrady

Lt. Dangle lookin sharp.

Posted by: CHICwithBADGE

What's a dippie? That's such a manly thing to say. Maybe a Freudian slip, perhaps?

Posted by: Barbrady

I'll go get the kettle corn....

Posted by: Foxy85

I'm going to go out on a limb here...

Dippie, Dip-pee : 1. Short term for dipshit.

Dipshit : 1. An unintelligent person; MORON; DIM-WIT; IDIOT

Posted by: girlcop21

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

So, I guess you want to be treated equally as males when it comes to being a cop. Except for the tie of course.

You're a day late and a dollar short, this has already been mentioned...

How does wearing a tie equate to being treated equally anyway?

I'll say it again since you were so anxious to ridicule rather than to read all of the postings... in my department we have the option to wear a tie or a turtle neck under our uniform shirt. I, like 98% of my fellow officers, all of which are male except one other, also chose the turtle necks. Seeing as how a great majority of men in my department also choose turtle necks, I guess I won't have a problem being treated equally...

Posted by: sdb29

After over 20 years of wearing a tie every winter last year I went over to the dark side and tried wearing a turtleneck. It was....ok. It's a nice option. I don't want to wear one every night, but it's nice to know that on an especially cold night, or a snowy one I can retire my old blue scarf and still keep my neck warm. If tomorrow the administration told me I have to wear one or the other exclusively, my answer will be "Make sure you change the policy after the clothing allowance hits."
When I came on back in 1981 (oh crap. Another old hairbag talking about the good old days)we had to wear these piece of junk Blauer reefers in the winter. They were a thin poly thing with a quilted liner and a removable fake fur collar. They were thigh length and there were pockets that had cutouts in the inside. You were supposed to either pull your holster out through the pocket and wear it on the outside of the coat or draw your revolver through the pocket.
When I first came on there were old guys that wore long sleeved shirts and ties all summer long because that's what they had to do when they first came on. We still have a wool jacket called the "Summer Blouse". We only wear that for parades and inspections, but it's called the "Summer Blouse" because way back in the day guys (No female officers then) had to wear this wool jacket all summer long over the long sleeved shirt and tie.
I wonder what these old timers had to say when short sleeved shirts were introduced. Probably something like " Ah hell. No one's going to respect us anymore, and it looks like crap when everybody's T shirt shows"
Things change. Times change. A sharp squared away cop is going to be sharp no matter what they wear. Somebody who comes to work looking like they got hit by a wrinkle grenade is gonna look like crap in whatever they wear. Shame on them for not having any self respect, and shame on their bosses for letting them get away with it.

Posted by: Macop

Inspector, we actually agree on something, what is this world coming to. Hey chicwith badge, where does it say you can't have shinned boots with a pressed, creased, well maintained 511/street gear uniform???????

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlcop21

How does wearing a tie equate to being treated equally anyway?

"It's not right for women to have to wear those"

You said it, not me.

Posted by: 40th MPOC#309

The worst I've seen on my job.....polo shirt, BDU pants, not bloused, patrol SNEAKERS, nylon duty belt, radio with ear clip and coiled cord, and a nice pot belly with crappy posture. NICE! (BTW-we were told by Sgt. Francis Riordan of the Plymouth Police Academy, that the clip on ties eliminated the shitbag grabbing you by the tie to choke you....)

Posted by: lawdog671

GIRLCOP...you made it a point to mention in one of your posts that "as a girl" you shouldn't have to wear a tie/bowtie/etc...and then went on to insult guys that you've "never seen, met, or worked with before.." about their work habits or lack thereof over an opinion that didn't agree with yours. What's good for the goose....None of these posts struck me as anti woman..
Point is..someone mentioned that its not the clothes that make the cop...I agree to a certain extent amongst collegues...HOWEVER...amonst civilians...your uniform is a symbol of your authority. As I mentioned before, and someone else backed me, cons size you up the second you engage them. There are studies that said they chose not to follow through with attacks because the way they looked made them believe/disbelieve that the cop could handle themselves in a fight. I want people to look at my uniform and think that guy knows his shit. If you think someone called you in particular a slob, take a long hard look in the mirror because maybe that hits little close to home.
I just think that even worn pressed with military creases, BDU's do not look as professional. After having worn them in the Marines, they are to me a work uniform. Even in military there's dress uniforms for the everyday office work. Problem is guys don't press them daily, they don't dry clean them daily, and then end up looking like 100lbs of bubble gum in a 10lbs bag.

Oh and keeping the window partially down keeps your body acclimated to the outside weather better than getting in and out of a hot car into cold weather. That's not a shot at patrol procedures and how good of a cop you are. Well at least I dont think it was...

I mean you don't wear a turtleneck to court, you wear proper business attire, right???

Posted by: redpara

My department wears them (seasonally). It's a practical alternative with a lot of merit (you also don't have all kinds of nice shiny metal things to worry about).

A previous writer said "It's an excuse to look unprofessional." I would point out that if your in good shape the BDU's look good, if your a fat-ass, like a couple guys we have (did I actually write that?) you'll look like a fat-ass no matter what you wear.

Posted by: billb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

Agree with most here.

BDU's are excellent for the kind of work that will routinely get you filthy (truck team, K9, etc.) or when operational requirements outweigh any possible value in a professional look (SWAT, Riot Police). For the patrol officer dealing with the public on a regular basis traditional police uniforms definitely carry a more professional bearing and are instantly recognizable.

Something pointed out by my girlfriend is that BDU type uniforms are far more easily faked than traditional uniforms by whackers and criminals.

BDU's are a lot cheaper as well... someone who wanted to fake a police uniform would have to buy them (expensive) and most likely show credentials for the articles and patches and so forth...

As a military member I hate seeing civilian cops wearing BDU's with bloused jump boots... civilian cops call wannabe's "whackers".... to me the BDU for non-tactical/grubby work is the ultimate wannabe... a civilian police uniform is professional and identifiable...

Cops wearing bloused "jump" boots... looks ridiculous... military members wear jump boots when they want to look sharp (parades, office work, etc..) field boots are soled different and are more functional... if you are going to wear BDU's have the pants hemmed like 511 pants and wear a black funtional boot...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongo

I think chicks in BDU's are hot.

I think Hot Chicks in BDU's are Hot

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

Cops wearing bloused "jump" boots... looks ridiculous... military members wear jump boots when they want to look sharp (parades, office work, etc..) field boots are soled different and are more functional... if you are going to wear BDU's have the pants hemmed like 511 pants and wear a black funtional boot...

Jump boots are part of our summer uniform...can't wear low-quarters or "tactical" boots, although we do wear them unbloused.

When I wear BDU's I blouse them into Altama jungle boots...for me, they're fully "functional" and a hell of lot more durable then the so-called tactical boots, which feel like sneakers to me and fall apart just as quickly.

Posted by: C73

Quote:

As a military member I hate seeing civilian cops wearing BDU's with bloused jump boots... civilian cops call wannabe's "whackers".... to me the BDU for non-tactical/grubby work is the ultimate wannabe... a civilian police uniform is professional and identifiable...

Cops wearing bloused "jump" boots... looks ridiculous... military members wear jump boots when they want to look sharp (parades, office work, etc..) field boots are soled different and are more functional... if you are going to wear BDU's have the pants hemmed like 511 pants and wear a black funtional boot...

I'll take the "whacker" label and looking "ridiculous" to avoid Lyme disease all day long.

C73

Posted by: Inspector71

I learned not to wear underwear with BDU's in jungle school in Panama. (more food for the varmints) I think it's okay to wear some in police work though.

Pahioka, You don't need to be Delta's bitch. He's big enough to stand on his own, believe me. Thanks for being honest about you law enforcement status too!

Posted by: kwflatbed

Looks like the Marine Corps agree.

The Marine Corps is banning the wearing of camouflage uniforms off base, even during coffee runs and quick stops at the cleaners.

http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39897

Posted by: RumRunner

What about head gear with the BDU's?

Posted by: kttref

There are so many points I want to touch on...but there are too many. Most of what I have read I don't agree with. And most of the female comments (ones made by and ones about) are ridiculous as well.

Let's start here: BDU's = great for patrol. Especially someone my size (5'3). I don't have enough room on my belt to carry all the gear I'm supposed to, so with BDU's I can fit more stuff in my pockets. Yes they look like hell on some people, but you get that with any uniform. If you wear them properly and you clean them regularly they look great. In fact, my department is most likely going to be switching over from traditional shirts to polo shirts. Because it's more comfortable for the officers and there are no shiny objects in which can be targeted. Regardless, BDU's are great for patrol.

Females: The turtleneck/tie argument is stupid as all hell. By the way, female shirts are the opposite from male shirts, and ties don't clip on properly. So a turtleneck is the best option. Of the 50 people in my department, only 1 wears a tie regularly (he's very old school)...and who the hell cares if it's an option anyway???? Last I checked, it's a matter of warmth and comfort. I want to wear what is going to be best for me personally. If it is one lest thing I have to worry about, great. Why the hell would I want to worry about a tie?

Now....females on this board. It's one thing if you're putting in good comments/topics...it's another if you're using this for a dating site. Get out of here if you want a date. Stay if you feel you can actually contribute.

Posted by: Mitpo62

Quote:

Originally Posted by RumRunner

What about head gear with the BDU's?

How about a beanie? Get one with a prop so you can jet from a hairy situation. Cecil, what do you think?

Posted by: kttref

We wear ball caps and beanies...we have 8 point hats..but never wear them, don't have to.

Posted by: MM1799

Out with command presence and professionalism. In with comfort and fashion!

Hell just let everyone wear whatever they are comfortable in. Who cares what the public perception is & whether people are able to distinguish us immediately. Pathetic.

Posted by: kttref

Last I checked, some people actually perform their job better when they're comfortable in their gear. The public will have perceptions on police contact as well, not JUST what an officer is wearing.

Posted by: MM1799

I've said this before and I'll repeat it:
You want to be fashion-savvy and excersize your individuality? Go back to highschool.
You want to be a cop? Look, and act, the part.

I am hardly worried about being community friendly. I wear a uniform that symbolizes authority and commands respect. I am sure you are an excellent officer but you cant tell me a polo shirt (or whatever you wear) commands respect and authority as well as a traditional.

As far as professionalism: We, as police, are given immense resonsiblities. I think your uniform should reflect that responsibility.

None of this is direct at anyone nor is it a criticism of a specific officer's abilities. My problem is the fact that departments dont curtail the use of 8 different styles for a patrol force. If they allow you to wear a more comfortable uni, go for it. I cant blame anyone for taking advantage of something.

Posted by: LA Copper

I think the public does take note of what we are wearing and how we look when they look at us. Anytime we are on TV, they notice. In a potential crowd control situation they notice. In a tactical scenario they notice. Looking the part is pretty important.

I have to agree with MM1799 in that the uniform does make the man/woman. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression. If the public perceives us the way we would like them to then maybe we can avoid some confrontations.

The uniform is only part of the big picture it but it is important, in my opinion.

Posted by: kttref

Although the polo shirt is more comfy - I actually can not wear it with a vest...so I don't wear it. But it does kinda look like crap...but damn is it comfy when it all works out.

Posted by: dcs2244

I wear BDU's year round. Long sleeve in the winter, rolled in the summer...EXCEPT...for the hottest part of the summer we are allowed to wear the 5.11 polo. It is way more comfortable than the BDU blouse, and looks good, too. Hey, we are not working extra jobs in them...we are crawling around wrecked cars in junkyards, hardly a venue for our "pretty" uniforms!

One thing that irks me, though, is the lack of uniformity amongst the same department at a detail: two guys, two different uniforms...three guys, three different uniforms, ad nauseum. I must admit though, that those "Lil' Slugger" baseball caps worn by the local folks just scream "professional". Remember to pick your nose and eat it, just to complete the picture for the lemmings.

</IMG>

Posted by: Barbrady

I forgot our CS guys where em too.

Posted by: Inspector71

I think this hole thing is getting stupid anyway. What more can anyone say about this? Delta,Macop,MPD61,Pahapoika, and others got banned for taking this thread a little too serious. Can we shut it down? Kwflatbed please? Oh shoot! you got banned too!

KOZ! Help us all now!

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