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Main Page Class a LTC
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Posted by: romio0925

what would I need to do so I can change my LTC Class A from restricted to all lawfull because Boston,MA dosen't like to give out firearm lisence they are very strick they are giving me the run around to change my license they told me you keep my restricted LTC or have no LTC. I need help trying to change it.

Posted by: copchika911

That’s totally up to each department...I'd be careful though. Unless you need your gun for something job related, then you’re at the disposal of the department in the town/city in which you live. They’re going to ask you the same thing every firearms officer asks.."What makes you need a class A more so than anyone else, do you feel your life is in some sort of grave danger...etc" I wouldn't push it, Mass is really strict (Liberal Bastards) and you don't want to have the privilege of having a license taken away... Give it time...Sometimes belonging to a gun club helps, and it all depends how long you’ve had your LTC B.

Posted by: Curious EMT

Wait, do you have a restricted A, or a B.

Anyone dare to chime in about that case-law in regards to "restrictions" of Class A's?

Posted by: SOT

It has been proven time and time again that the "reason for issuance" is not a restriction. However, these have been proven on a "case by case" basis so if it hasn't been done in your area...you may end up being the "test case".

Posted by: marlboroughpd

My mom had her Class B LTC for about 10 years now. She never shoots any guns, she just has it for when the hunting seasons come around in the fall my brother can carry under her license and for buying my dad a gun for christmas each year. Soon she will be applying to get her Class A LTC, all she had to do was attend a firearms safety class at Worcester PD. Now she just has to make an appointment with the Sgt. that issues firearms licenses to do all the paperwork and all that other good stuff involved.

Posted by: michaelbos

Is the State Police backlogged in sending out the renewal license. I renewed in Oct and have not received it yet in the mail.

Posted by: fscpd910

She never shoots any guns, she just has it for when the hunting seasons come around in the fall my brother can carry under her license and for buying my dad a gun for christmas each year.

Posted by: soxrock75

I just got my LTC in Boston. I passed the background, the qualification at Moon Island and was told I was good to go. I was going to get the Class A for reasons of Employment. I used a 2nd job as the employment (part time liquor store manager) because we don't carry at my full time gig. I got a call from the BPD licensing unit and they told me I was being downgraded to "Sport & Target" only. They didn't give me any real reason as to why only that my store has another permit (LTC) and that the Det. Sgt might not want 2 permits in 1 store, even though we work opposite shifts. I then asked the unit what I would do if I took a job where I was to carry a firearm. Thy told me that I would have to surrender my current license and re-apply for a new license. They do not do upgrades. I would have to start the entire process all over again.

On a side note, does anyone know how it would work if I got a job where I had to carry ( Sworn PO NOT security)? Would I be able to carry under my badge and qualify annualy with my dept.? Is it a case of once I have an LTC. I am all set? I am a bit confused.

Posted by: marlboroughpd

Quote:

Originally Posted by fscpd910";p=&quot

She never shoots any guns, she just has it for when the hunting seasons come around in the fall my brother can carry under her license and for buying my dad a gun for christmas each year.

Yeah the only time she shoots is at the Big MOE in Sturbridge every year but she only shoots 5 shots. In order for her to buy a handgun for my dad for Christmas, she needs an LTC. Since my brother is over 12 but doesnt have a license to carry any firearm, the law allows him to carry under a licensed adult i.e. my mom. Me and my dad carry our own licenses and I am not considered an adult by law. So what is there to question about what I said.

Posted by: LenS

LTC renewals - highly variable:
- Just got mine renewed. Dropped off paperwork 11/30, interview 12/15, and received new LTC on 12/29. Prior LTC renewal took less than 4 weeks as well.
- My Wife's LTC renewal (last year) took 3 months. Reason given was delays with CHSB/State.
- According to Chief Ron Glidden (a few months ago), DMH was taking in excess of 8 weeks if they were getting back to PD at all.
- By law the PDs are supposed to process paperwork timely, but I am well aware that some PDs sit on the paperwork for weeks/months and blame the delays on State. It's just their way of limiting LTCs because they don't believe that anyone should have guns. [I know someone who had to go thru 4 interviews over 6 months to get his renewal of LTC. The PD just sat on his paperwork.]

Boston!
- Best solution to Boston LTCs is to move out of the City!! They do their own thing, the laws be damned. [I wonder what they will do with their precious "RESTRICTED" rubber stamp when they switch over to MIRCS?]
- If one wants to upgrade their LTC, there is NO legal requirement to turn over your current LTC! However, any chief can suspend/revoke a LTC at any time for any reason (or no reason whatsoever) under his unlimited "suitability" and "discretion", as allowed by law. Problem with what Boston told you is that once they take your LTC, you are NO longer licensed and then they could legally come and confiscate your guns/ammo and arrest you for illegal possession of firearms/ammo! [Not saying that they would do this, just that the law would allow them to do this.]

PO - Firearms possession without LTC:
- MGLs have allowed any LEO (from any jurisdiction) to carry a firearm "on the badge" without a LTC. [When I first joined our PD as a Special PO, the chief was trying to convince all his FT POs to fill out the application for LTCs (the chief wasn't even going to charge them the $10 fee) and a number of them told him (and me) outright that they didn't want the LTC and would just carry on the badge.] Without a LTC, even a PO can't legally buy any ammo or a firearm, so they could only carry/possess what the PD issued to them.
- If you become a Trooper or municipal PO, no problem carrying on the badge. However, if you join a campus PD or some other non-municipal organization (even with police powers) you can expect potential problems carrying on the badge (without a LTC).

Posted by: soxrock75

LenS..........Thanks for the info, it helped alot!!!

Posted by: LenS

SoxRoc,

Glad to help!

I'd suggest dropping by on Sunday, Jan. 23rd for the MA Firearms Law seminar by Chief Ron Glidden. He's the most knowledgeable person on MA firearms laws in the state.

See this posting for more details.
http://www.masscops.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5629

Posted by: Smig165

I was under the impression that the "reason" was not a restriction.

Posted by: Curious EMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by marlboroughpd";p=&quot

Me and my dad carry our own licenses and I am not considered an adult by law. So what is there to question about what I said.

What is there to question?

Apparently I'm less familiar with mass's lisence system than I thought.
Explain: You're not a legal adult, but have a Mass Firearms License?
What class license is this?

And, does this mean you're a 16/17 year old?
That would explain a lot....

Posted by: Curious EMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smig165";p=&quot

I was under the impression that the "reason" was not a restriction.

Officially: its a moot point.

Case-law has, apparently many times, reinforced that a department placing a "reason for issuing" is not a restricted, and that a Class A is a Class A, because no where in MGL is there any "option" for a restricted.
So, it may keep a conviction off your record, but could land you a night in jail, loss of guns, and the Chief pulling your LTC. They can do it because they are in a bad mood, never mind you try to get technical on them....

Posted by: USMCTrooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by soxrock75";p=&quot

I just got my LTC in Boston. I passed the background, the qualification at Moon Island and was told I was good to go. I was going to get the Class A for reasons of Employment. I used a 2nd job as the employment (part time liquor store manager) because we don't carry at my full time gig. I got a call from the BPD licensing unit and they told me I was being downgraded to "Sport & Target" only. They didn't give me any real reason as to why only that my store has another permit (LTC) and that the Det. Sgt might not want 2 permits in 1 store, even though we work opposite shifts. I then asked the unit what I would do if I took a job where I was to carry a firearm. Thy told me that I would have to surrender my current license and re-apply for a new license. They do not do upgrades. I would have to start the entire process all over again.

On a side note, does anyone know how it would work if I got a job where I had to carry ( Sworn PO NOT security)? Would I be able to carry under my badge and qualify annualy with my dept.? Is it a case of once I have an LTC. I am all set? I am a bit confused.

What IS your "full time gig"?

They are correct that if you wanted to upgrade from a Class B to a Class A you would have to surrender one and apply for another. While there may be no "legal" wording stating so, there is no provision for holding 2 licenses and it is clearly established that each license must be indicated with a number and class type along with the application as forwarded to FRB. You would also be required to pass the requirements and a background check for a Class A. Don't be misinformed into thinking an upgrade is automatic like airline tickets. Furthermore, the issuing authority CAN impose restrictions on either type license as they deem fit. (ref Ch140 sec 131 (b) )

Also is the liquor store in a high crime area warranting carrying a weapon under a Class A?

If you really want direct answers, go here:http://www.mass.gov/chsb/frb/frb_laws.html

Posted by: soxrock75

USMCTrooper,

I am currently working in the Public Safety Department at a college in the Boston area. I am also about to finish the R/I Academy (Feb. 17th) in Foxboro. We have a new Director of PS at our College (Ret. MSP Lt.)and he is looking into getting SSPO powers for those that qualify. While I do not have an SSPO Academy, I do have a Bachelor's (Master's soon) and R/I, which should make me eligible for SSPO powers. I know that we are not going to be armed in the future other than OC or baton. I was also looking into some Aux. departments for some experience. Hence, the question about the LTC Class A.

I have worked at Huntington WIne & Spirits for the past 7 years. It is located on Huntington Ave near Symphony Hall and directly across from the main branch of the YMCA in downtown Boston. While I wouldn't say it is a "high crime" area like Dudley Square or Blue Hill Ave., it can get pretty ugly. I have witnessed stabbings in the area and saw someone robbed at gunpoint before (usually college kids being victimized) There is also a large homeless population in the area and unfortunately I have to deal with them as they use their "earnings" from panhandling to buy their booze. Alot of the time, they are drunk or are buying for a minor, so we won;t serve them. This inevitably leads to hostilities and on several occasions has led to physical altercations. Threats and verbal abuse are commonplace. I also have to deposit the store's cash many times and I would like to feel a bit safer when I am handling a large amount of cash and I have to walk past or see one of the "bums" that I had words with earlier, out near the bank.

Posted by: JellyFish

Boston sucks ass.

How long until we make this state a Shall Issue state and take away the power of police chiefs to abuse law abiding citizens? What goes on in Boston is absolute bullshit.

Posted by: JellyFish

How will MIRCS affect their idiotic "restricted" license label? Does that mean they won't be able to issue these crippled licenses anymore?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LenS";p=&quot

wal of LTC. The PD just sat on his paperwork.]
Boston!
- Best solution to Boston LTCs is to move out of the City!! They do their own thing, the laws be damned. [I wonder what they will do with their precious "RESTRICTED" rubber stamp when they switch over to MIRCS?]

Posted by: michaelbos

The owner of that store has to write you a letter, stating why he supports you have a firearms license and why you need it for employment. In the old days, all you had to say is that you carried large amounts of cash to the bank and they would give you one. But years ago, Boston woke up and their response was, "hired a detail for that"

Posted by: metrowestblues

Here's my horror story from Boston. When I lived there, I was an aux. officer on the South Shore with full police powers. They tried to give me a "restricted" license.

I tried another angle to talk them out of it...at the time, my regular job required me to occassionally work in office parks late at night. I was the only one in the whole damn place.

When I told them this (and yes, I threw in the part about being a female working all alone at night, etc), they could care less. Somehow I talked them into giving me the unrestricted status, but just barely.

They don't want to help an officer from another town, and they don't want to help a female who just wants to protect herself.

Thank God I don't live in Boston anymore!

Posted by: LenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by JellyFish";p=&quot

Boston sucks ass.

How long until we make this state a Shall Issue state and take away the power of police chiefs to abuse law abiding citizens? What goes on in Boston is absolute bullshit.

In spite of all the abuse of power (and Boston isn't alone here), the legislature will never take away the local chief's discretionary powers. MCOPA lobbies very hard to keep those powers and they are very successful. No legislator wants to lose the support of the Chiefs Assn.

I'd love to see ONE set of requirements and a "go/no-go" type of licensing, not the 351 different sets of rules that we have now. But I'm a realist and I've been testifying in front of the Jt Committee on Public Safety now for >20 years. In spite of their feigning shock over the abuse, they like the "status quo" and won't change it.

Posted by: mpd61

Actually,

The reason for issue is Moot. As pointed out earlier, a Class A, is a Class A, is a Class A. The Acts of 1998 (legislation) and case law further clarified that there are no "restrictions" other than Class Type. If the licensing authority doesn't want you to carry concealed then they should issue you a Class B LTC. If they give you an "A" then screw them, you're good to go. Especially if you are clean shaven and have no BOP!

BTW- My renewal was 48 Hours! WOW!!!!!! and the best part was the price=$0.00

Posted by: Curious EMT

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61";p=&quot

BTW- My renewal was 48 Hours! WOW!!!!!! and the best part was the price=$0.00

Hey buddy,

haha

Posted by: SOT

Hey Buddy,

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61";p=&quot

Actually,

The reason for issue is Moot. As pointed out earlier, a Class A, is a Class A, is a Class A. The Acts of 1998 (legislation) and case law further clarified that there are no "restrictions" other than Class Type. If the licensing authority doesn't want you to carry concealed then they should issue you a Class B LTC. If they give you an "A" then screw them, you're good to go. Especially if you are clean shaven and have no BOP!

BTW- My renewal was 48 Hours! WOW!!!!!! and the best part was the price=$0.00

Posted by: LenS

I checked with Chief Ron Glidden and got confirmation that I was correct. MGLs do NOT require you to hand over your LTC-B in order to apply for the LTC-A. If you did this, you would be "unlicensed" according to MGL (you must POSSESS the license, so that if a LTC is lost/stolen you are no longer considered licensed), while you waited for whatever Brockton would issue you. [There is some "discussion" at CHSB that with the new MIRCS system they would just re-issue a lost/stolen LTC as they do DLs for a small fee and not make you go thru the application process from scratch. But to the best of my knowledge this has NOT been implemented yet, and may never be implemented under current EOPS leadership.]

They are supposed to take your application for LTC-A, mark it as a "renewal" of your LTC-B and if they issue the LTC-A, you would THEN hand over the LTC-B at the same time they handed you the LTC-A. It is true that you can not "possess" two LTCs at the same time, but until it is actually "issued" to you (you take possession), you don't have the LTC-A and thus only have one LTC.

Of course, under "chief's discretion" he can insist on anything that he wants, but according to the law he isn't supposed to confiscate your LTC-B until the LTC-A is issued.

Good luck.

Posted by: AFCOP

Boston is a tough one! a few years ago there was a stink about BPD turning down it's own PO's for a license, can you believe it! When I moved to the city back in NOV of 03, I changed over my license to Boston, I have a Class A for all lawful, issued from my previous town, when I handed in my address change form, the clerk at the desk questioned me as to why I have a license for all lawful purpose, he asked if I was a PO, to which I replied I was but am no longer.
Currently I am in the military and my license is due to expire this coming December, hopefully I wont get the run around when I try to renew! we'll see...

Posted by: LenS

You shouldn't have "turned in" the address change form. MGL requires that it be sent with return receipt required to former & current PDs and CHSB. If Boston conveniently "loses" your form, they could accuse you of not notifying them, which is an allowed reason for refusal of a renewal!

Always deal with bureaucrats to YOUR advantage, so that you have proof that you played by the rules (receipts).

You can count on a hassle, as Boston has a reputation (well earned) to live down to. They hassle damn near everyone, unless you are well connected politically.

Posted by: AFCOP

Yeah I know exactly what you mean, hopefully there wont be a hassle when I renew, I have a friend on the job there who knows the boss (sgt.) that works licenses so if I get the screw I might need to call in a favor...Always helps to have an ace in your hip pocket...

Posted by: webo5

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelbos";p=&quot

Is the State Police backlogged in sending out the renewal license. I renewed in Oct and have not received it yet in the mail.

Who did you go to for renewal? unless you are employed by the MSP the renewal probably goes through the police chief of the city/town you reside in. The finger print searches have been taking no more than three weeks. When background checks are complete your local PD issues the permit.

IMOP any sane adult with out a criminal record should be issued a class A permit if requested.

Posted by: LenS

In response to webo5:

There are cities and towns that make a habit of "losing paperwork" on employees desks for months in an effort to "control" the issuance of LTCs. It's all because they do NOT want to issue ANY LTCs (unless perhaps to their own officers or friends)!

I have worked with another Constable (former military, stand-up guy with no issues of suitability) who had to fight with Town A to issue LTC-A/ALP 5 years ago. Subsequently he moved to Town B and applied for his renewal. They SAT on his application for >6 months, lost it a few times (their own admission) on officers' desks, made him go thru 4 interviews at the PD and finally issued his renewal. Reasons given: paperwork was lost (unbelievably, they actually admitted it to him), they don't usually issue LTC-A/ALP to anyone, etc. He did allow himself to be jerked around by them, even after I offered him the name of an excellent attorney who would have cut thru the BS in short order.

I have a friend (now retired chief) finally admit to me that the jerk-around that his town gave most/all LTC applicants was due to HIS hatred of guns, not the Licensing Officer's doing but per order of the chief! Years earlier when he and I discussed his LTC issuance practices, he had blown me off with "my Lt. handles it", now that he's retired he admits it was all his idea to give people a hard time (many will just go away grumbling, most are too intimidated to face off their chief who can indeed make their lives a living hell in the community).

The two examples above are NOT from my town. My last two renewals took no more than 4 weeks each (latest was received in November, my B'day is next week), yet my Wife's last two renewals took ~3 months each. Both of us are well known personally by most town officials and many POs (we've been active members in the community/town government for almost 30 years).

Boston is one of those communities that jerks people around, makes up their own rules/requirements, with the hope to dissuade most folks from even applying for a LTC. My belief is that this is greatly encouraged by the Mayor and comes down the ranks as directives to those doing the licensing.

Oftentimes the locals blame it on the state, but it is usually (but not always) the locals that are sitting on the apps due to "political reasons".

Posted by: reno911_2004

After seeing how some people waited months and months for renewals, my wait of 6 days sounds pretty short!

Posted by: kwflatbed

Len was the retired chief from a small south coast town?

Posted by: LenS

Nope, not anywhere near water.

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