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Main Page Flag Patch on Uniform
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: mikeyd1313

While working today a lady questioned the way I had my flag displayed on my right shoulder. She became very upset with me and told me it was disrespectful to her. She kept going on and on about a bunch of B.S. about calling the government on me etc. Anyway, i can't get a straight answer from anyone on the difference. If you are looking at me, the stars are on the left. I have seen other agencies with the stars on the right including the military. I am not military so I have no idea on what the meaning is. Somebody told me that at a time of war, the stars should be on the right because if not, it means defeat. Anybody have an answer for me???? I don't know why it bothered me this much but it did.

Posted by: JLT770

this is by no means a legitimate answer but i heard that the flag is supposed to be backwards looking with the stars facing the front meaning you are going into battle? but i believe that is the military, as for police, i have no idea

Posted by: mikeyd1313

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLT770

this is by no means a legitimate answer but i heard that the flag is supposed to be backwards looking with the stars facing the front meaning you are going into battle? but i believe that is the military, as for police, i have no idea

that is the exact answer i got from a couple of people. Like if you were carrying a flag running into a battle, it would be going behind you.

Posted by: CPT Chaos

The flag patch on the left shoulder of Army uniforms has the stars (the canton) on the left.

On the right shoulder the flag patch has the stars on the right and appears reversed to an observer.

Pentagon procedure is that the flag should always look as if it is going forward. Indeed, the words from an old hymn say, “Forward into battle.”

The stars are always closest to the pole, and the flag should appear to be flowing back from the standard or flagpole.

If the canton on the right shoulder had the stars on the left, it would symbolize that the soldier carrying that flag was retreating.

Posted by: 2-Delta

Chaos is correct. You never want it to look as though you are retreating from battle. Obviously this is not the intention however when PD's sew on the flag patch and the public should know that.

Posted by: DodgeRam

Why is the Flag patch "backwards" on Military uniforms?

Following is a quote from the Department of Defense website... "Thank you for your inquiry about the proper placement of the American flag on the uniform of the U.S. Armed Forces.

Army Regulation 670-1, “Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia,” updated most recently September 5, 2003, addresses explicitly the proper and lawful placement of the U.S. flag patch on the Army uniform.

The regulation states that when authorized for application to the proper uniform the American flag patch is to be worn, right or left shoulder, so that “the star field faces forward, or to the flag’s own right. When worn in this manner, the flag is facing to the observer’s right, and gives the effect of the flag flying in the breeze as the wearer moves forward. The appropriate replica for the right shoulder sleeve is identified as the ‘reverse side flag’.”

We appreciate and share your concern for the respectful display of our American flag on the uniform of the U.S. Armed Forces."

Posted by: Delta784

I'm a veteran and as patriotic as the next guy, but I think it's rather silly for police officers to wear a flag on their uniform. I think we all know what country we're in.

Posted by: Wolfman

Quote:

I'm a veteran and as patriotic as the next guy, but I think it's rather silly for police officers to wear a flag on their uniform. I think we all know what country we're in.

Consider it a reminder for the illegals and barking moonbats.

Posted by: Mortal knight

In the academy, all the officers who had the flag "backwards" had to write TO/Froms on the proper wearing of the flag.

Basically what everyone else was saying. The Stars near the front of the uniform, stripes towards the back.

Not a big deal, I personelly like the PD patches on both shoulder, with the flag over the name tag. But when it comes right down to it, you can tattoo the flag on the cop's forehead as far as I care, when you need a cop, you won't turn him away, nor will you be looking at the patches. You'll just see a person in unifrom rendering aid.

Oh it was funny seeing the guys having to write the TO/FROMS because their department made a decsion on the flag,lol.

Posted by: pahapoika

we had the stars left to right on our old shirts until they issued the BDU's and now the flag is displayed like the military right to left.

there were stories of chinese contractors making a mistake and the government needed an excuse to get rid of 50,000 "wrong flags"

now i see the space shuttle astronauts wearing the flag the same way , so if it's good enough for NASA......................

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Posted by: Wiggum_1

Like Mortal Knight I'm a fan of the dept. patch on each shoulder.
I've noticed some of the sheriff dept.'s featured on COPS wear the flag on the right side of their chests, which I think is a lot better looking.

I had some moonbat come up to me at a detail and complain about all the flags in my city being at half staff ( This was maybe after some event where the President had decreed all flags be lowered.) She said she was a member of a vetran's commitee in some other town and that it after the proper time period and the flags had to be raised. She further went on to say that it was illegal and asked me what I was going to do about it.
I told her that pehaps a resident of the city, who was a vet, died or maybe a retired firefighter or police officer died. When that didn't satisfy her, I told her to call the Mayor's office.

" So you're not going to do anything ?" She replied. At that point I just stood there and stared at her until she left.

Posted by: Bravo2-7

In the academy we had the flag on our left shoulder, department patch on the right in those khaki uniforms (man it sucked to wear those). We wear it the same way in my department and if i can remember we were one of the few from my class who wear it that way. I realize I am only repeating what has been said, but to my understanding it has always been the idea to make it look like the flag is going forward. I think dracut might have the right idea, they just have the flag as part of their patch. Quick easy solution (for all the nutballs out there)

Posted by: vaspo

I had to wear department patches on both of my sleeves, so I, as well as other officers went onto galls and bought the flag citation bar, made by blackington, and wore that above our nametags on the right side of our uniforms.

Posted by: redpara

CPT Chaos,

We (army) do not have a flag on the left sleave; it's on the right and the canton always "faces foward" just look at any flag in your office or flying outside of a building. I also have all my flags on my (police) uniforms the same way.

As to the first e-mail (mikeyd); just tell the "offended lady" that the police are a para-military orginization, that shoud set her off even more!

Posted by: smilly217

I agree with a few of you who said that the dept patches should be on both sides and the flag could be worn as the pin/bar on the right side of your chest. As for the crazy weirdos who want to complain, they need to find something else to do with their time.
Departments still are wearing name tags?? I find that funny personally, it should just be a badge number and nothing else.

Posted by: ratwatcher

Next time tell that lady to 'drop dead and get a life!'

Posted by: LA Copper

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilly217

I agree with a few of you who said that the dept patches should be on both sides and the flag could be worn as the pin/bar on the right side of your chest. As for the crazy weirdos who want to complain, they need to find something else to do with their time.
Departments still are wearing name tags?? I find that funny personally, it should just be a badge number and nothing else.

Guess you wouldn't like our uniforms. We DO have nametags and we DON'T have patches or flags.

Posted by: csauce777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiggum_1

She said she was a member of a vetran's commitee in some other town and that it after the proper time period and the flags had to be raised. She further went on to say that it was illegal and asked me what I was going to do about it.

You should have given her the old..."Sorry lady, it's a civil matter."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smilly217

I believe (but could be mistaken) there is a MGL that states that police officers must be identifiable by either name or badge number while in uniform. I know alot of departments, mine included, do not have numbers on their badges and thus are required to wear nametags.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by csauce777

It's optional for cities and towns to adopt that section;

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98c.htm

Posted by: Mitpo62

"We don't have to and you can't make us." Think I read that somewhere...

Posted by: Opie

We only had a dept patch on one sleve for years, but after 9/11 we put on the flag. First it was stars on the left and now after a lot of bitching we are phasing in stars on the right.

My aunt also made the same bitch to me when she saw me in uniform and told me it was disrespectful. So not yell at my aunt, I simply went home and cut and paste a photo of a soldier from cnn that clearly showed I WAS NOT WRONG!

Posted by: trigger409

Ok not to beat a dead horse but as far as the flag wearing goes it is up to each individual department. when placed on a uniform in the form of a patch the flag is just an insignia and can be correctly worn facing either direction. as for what is really correct, i did 13 years between active and reserves in the army and with Springfield PD since 1996, stars forward is the only right way.

Posted by: USMCTrooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyd1313

While working today a lady questioned the way I had my flag displayed on my right shoulder. She became very upset with me and told me it was disrespectful to her. She kept going on and on about a bunch of B.S. about calling the government on me etc. Anyway, i can't get a straight answer from anyone on the difference. If you are looking at me, the stars are on the left. I have seen other agencies with the stars on the right including the military. I am not military so I have no idea on what the meaning is. Somebody told me that at a time of war, the stars should be on the right because if not, it means defeat. Anybody have an answer for me???? I don't know why it bothered me this much but it did.

Next time ask her if she is familiar with 4 USC 1 and Public Law 110-41. When she says "no" then tell her when she figures it out, get back to you....

Posted by: recon76

Our department made the recent switch to wearing the American flag the correct way with the stars in the front. I am a veteran, but don't think I need to wear a flag on the shoulder. In the military we wore it overseas, but I don't think I am getting deployed any time soon in my police uniform.

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