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FEDS & Chapter 90

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: Dragnet

Can a FED (FBI, ATF, DEA, Customs, etc) stop a MV in Massachusetts for a Chapter 90 violation? DRAGNET


Posted by: RPD931

I believe only if it's on FEDERAL property. But even that's a push in the dark. Typically LE Park Rangers are the only ones in this region that I can think of that would enforce chapter 90, which the issue federal citations for in their respective jurisdiction/property.


Posted by: MPD703

Generally speaking federal law enforcement officers can only enforce federal law. So unless they are given some state authority they can not write Chap 90 unless the road is on federal property. Then they could write a federal ticket provided that the agency has regulations about m/v operation.


Posted by: Macop

They can enforce state laws if they are covered under what called the assimiltive crimes act which gives the feds concurent juristiction. The best examples I kow are the following. I have a friend who worked for the VA Police. I did a ride along and he had a fed cite book and a MA uniform cite book and could write under either. I know that some DOD Police have concurrent jurisdiction, I depends on the base commander and if he/she wants them to have it. And the park rangers do have it, I know that from when I was working on the Cape. They did not have the MA cites, they always wrote for speed under the federal system which is pretty harsh, but for OUI they would charge under MGL and on a few occations I would get called into the station to assist a Park Ranger with filling out the cite because they were not used to doing it, this was down in P-town.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macop
They can enforce state laws if they are covered under what called the assimiltive crimes act which gives the feds concurent juristiction. The best examples I kow are the following. I have a friend who worked for the VA Police. I did a ride along and he had a fed cite book and a MA uniform cite book and could write under either. I know that some DOD Police have concurrent jurisdiction, I depends on the base commander and if he/she wants them to have it. And the park rangers do have it, I know that from when I was working on the Cape. They did not have the MA cites, they always wrote for speed under the federal system which is pretty harsh, but for OUI they would charge under MGL and on a few occations I would get called into the station to assist a Park Ranger with filling out the cite because they were not used to doing it, this was down in P-town.
If a VA cop or a NPS Ranger had a Massachusetts Uniform Citation book, it was either stolen or given to them by another agency;

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90c-1.htm


Posted by: MPD703

There is no way a fed should have a Mass cite book. The Assimilated Crimes Act just applies the state law if there is no federal law that covers the violation but the charge would still be federal - violating the Assimilated Crimes Act - not an MGL violation.

In Mass feds have no authority to enforce any state law. In the same way the average police officer in Mass can not enforce most federal law.

Concurrent jurisdiction is different. All that concurrent jurisdiciton means is that both the state and federal laws apply. There are still a few places which have exclusive federal jurisdiciton - in those areas the state law does not apply. Mostly this is military reservations.


Posted by: Crvtte65

When I was on the cape, all the federal officers that arrested for OUI used the federal statue because MGL and MA courts... uuhh SUCK. They have criminal charges for refusal of chemical tests, not this pile of shit "license suspension"


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragnet
Can a FED (FBI, ATF, DEA, Customs, etc) stop a MV in Massachusetts for a Chapter 90 violation? DRAGNET
only if they're on a motorcycle.


Posted by: Pinkos307

As a NPS Ranger, we have neither a MA Citation Book nor the authority from this wonderful Commonwealth to enforce Chap 90.

What we do have is fed. law under 36 CFR S. 4.2(b) which states the following:

Sec. 4.2 State law applicable.

(a) Unless specifically addressed by regulations in this chapter,
traffic and the use of vehicles within a park area are governed by State
law. State law that is now or may later be in effect is adopted and made
a part of the regulations in this part.
(b) Violating a provision of State law is prohibited.

This is different from the Assimilative Crime Act, 18 U.S.C. § 13
We write all Chap 90 under the above section on Federal Citations with are heard in fed. court

Also we do have a law that prohibits persons from refusing to take a chemical test (blood, breath, urine, or saliva). If they still refuse, they are then charged with a separate criminal charge.

Sec. 4.23 Operating under the influence of alcohol or drugs....

(c) Tests. (1) At the request or direction of an authorized person
who has probable cause to believe that an operator of a motor vehicle
within a park area has violated a provision of paragraph (a) of this
section, the operator shall submit to one or more tests of the blood,
breath, saliva or urine for the purpose of determining blood alcohol and
drug content.
(2) Refusal by an operator to submit to a test is prohibited and
proof of refusal may be admissible in any related judicial proceeding.


Posted by: jndaniel

Federal Protective Service (FPS) I believe has an MOU with Boston to enforce all state and local criminal/civil violations.


Posted by: SGT_GRUNT_USMC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crvtte65
When I was on the cape, all the federal officers that arrested for OUI used the federal statue because MGL and MA courts... uuhh SUCK. They have criminal charges for refusal of chemical tests, not this pile of shit "license suspension"
Here in Nevada there is no such thing as "refusal of chemical tests" for drugs/alcohol.We have an implied consent law that lets a drunk/impaired driver choose between "blood or breath?"If they refuse both, a "forced blood draw" is conducted.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT_GRUNT_USMC
Here in Nevada there is no such thing as "refusal of chemical tests" for drugs/alcohol.We have an implied consent law that lets a drunk/impaired driver choose between "blood or breath?"If they refuse both, a "forced blood draw" is conducted.
That's how Australia does it. I was stopped there at a sobriety checkpoint and just before I blew into the portable machine, I asked out of curiosity what would happen if I refused. The officers pointed to what looked like a mobile home and told me "We'll take you in there and draw a blood sample by force".

And for you wiseguys, my breath test was 0.00 since I had nothing stronger to drink than coffee that day.


Posted by: pahapoika

"We'll take you in there and draw a blood sample by force".

sounds like something out of a science fiction movie.

who the hell voted for that law ?


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by pahapoika
"We'll take you in there and draw a blood sample by force".

sounds like something out of a science fiction movie.

who the hell voted for that law ?
I'd vote for it in a heartbeat.


Posted by: DODK911

The down and dirty of it. Federal Law Enforcement that do enforce motor vehicle law (DOD, VA, FPS, Etc...) write all infractions on a Federal Citation to the laws of that state. So, any Federal LE in this state would write there citation according to Ch. 90 on a federal citation. We do not use Ch.90 books. If a certain agency has state citation books then they are most likely sworn specials of that town or city where they are located and that Dept. issued them the books.


Posted by: Macop

Ya, I just it made it up.


Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Why would feds want to stop cars for speeding?


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfManyOne
Why would feds want to stop cars for speeding?
Because in Massachusetts, the issue of whether or not you're a "real cop" (whatever that means) somehow became tied to your ability to enforce traffic laws.


Posted by: jndaniel

The only Federal LEO's that are allowed to write citations are Federal Police Officers with an 0083 series. 1811's such as FBI Agents, USSS Agents, etc. do not have any authorization to write moving violations. Therefore, no 1811 should be writing moving violations. If that is the case than it is in violation of any state's law but also a violation of OPM and the agencies policies and procedures


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by jndaniel
The only Federal LEO's that are allowed to write citations are Federal Police Officers with an 0083 series. 1811's such as FBI Agents, USSS Agents, etc. do not have any authorization to write moving violations. Therefore, no 1811 should be writing moving violations. If that is the case than it is in violation of any state's law but also a violation of OPM and the agencies policies and procedures
Considering the whole al-Qaeda thing, I hope the FBI and USSS have more important things to do than stop people with burned-out brake lights, anyway.


Posted by: SGT_GRUNT_USMC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
Considering the whole al-Qaeda thing, I hope the FBI and USSS have more important things to do than stop people with burned-out brake lights, anyway.
Yeah,but as a street cop you know that some of the best stops (guns,drugs,felony warrants,etc.)come from the most minor traffic violations like no license plate light,broken tail light,no turn signal,etc.


Posted by: jndaniel

Of course. The felony lockups I have gotten were for minor moving violations. The FBI and USSS both have uniform police especially here in DC that do minor moving violations. FBI Police in NYC have that same capability just like US Park Police does. I have worked with numerous guys where I am at that moved onto FBI SA and USSS SA and they have all told me they have authorization from any goverment and/or their agency to enforce civil traffic violations


Posted by: MPD703

1811 or 0083 it really doesnt matter. For fed tickets it is all about who the agency gives the authority to. The other issue is that some states do give feds full LE authority which could include m/v violations.


Posted by: jettsixx

For some strange reason I think the Fed's would have more issues to deal with than writing a speeding ticket


Posted by: Inspector

The question asked specified federal agents and as I work with these guys regularly I can assure you all federal agents (fbi, dea, etc.) I know would never consider writing a ticket or getting involved in traffic enforcement. In fact most of the time when there is any possibility of a federal arrest being made on a public way where a motor vehicle stop may be in the offing we request marked police units to execute the stop Back whenI worked on the local payroll in an unmarked unit in plainclothes I would not, as a matter of policy (my own) do a MV stop for a traffic violation rather I'd call in a marked unit and if none was available I'd let the violation slide. There are too many misunderstandings etc. which arise when plainclothes officers insert themselves in situations best taken care of by uniformed officers.


Posted by: billb

Early in the forum the Federal Crimes Assimilation Act was mentioned but wasn't explained 100% correct (it was close). The Assimilation Act allows Fed Agencies to assimilate State Laws for enforcement where there isn't a corresponding federal law. There are no Federal Motor Vehicle Laws pertaining to standard moving violations... so Feds that need to enforce Traffic Code on Federal property will assimilate the state or territory's laws of where they are located. The offenses will be tried in Federal Court and we actually have our own citation books. In Mass you will find this at Devens RFTA, Hanscom AFB, VA Hospitals, US Parks, etc..

It is common to see Federal Officers attending a Massachusetts Reserve Officer Academy just for training in the specific Massachusetts Laws.


Posted by: 94c

regardless of the FBI,ATF,DEA or any other alphabet soup...

The Ma. citation is bigger than the federal ones.

Granted, a lot of good police work comes out of Chapter 90 but if the feds are looking for terrorists, kilos, and bombs with a broken tail light, we are all doomed.


Posted by: nevrehc

do feds have to fill out a profile form if they stop a vehicle in ma?


Posted by: Pinkos307

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevrehc
do feds have to fill out a profile form if they stop a vehicle in ma?
Nope


Posted by: DoD102

Do municipalities still do those ridiculous things? What a waste of time those were.!!


Posted by: DODK911

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94c
regardless of the FBI,ATF,DEA or any other alphabet soup...

The Ma. citation is bigger than the federal ones.

Granted, a lot of good police work comes out of Chapter 90 but if the feds are looking for terrorists, kilos, and bombs with a broken tail light, we are all doomed.
You must be thinking of Special Agents still because a uniformed 0083 Police Officer does the same job on Federal Property as any other municipal Police Officer in there town/city. As a police officer you know that motor vehicle law is just part of the job.


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by DODK911
You must be thinking of Special Agents still because a uniformed 0083 Police Officer does the same job on Federal Property as any other municipal Police Officer in there town/city. As a police officer you know that motor vehicle law is just part of the job.
I wasn't thinking of anything. I was just answering the original question...


Posted by: vaspo

The FCR has provisions in it for motor vehical traffic, but it mainly deals with motor vehicle carriers. Such as truck transport, especially when dealing with HAZMAT.


Posted by: FAPD

DODK911 you seem to have a lot of knowledge of federal traffic violations. How many CVN's do you write on average in a week? We use the federal magistrates in Boston. Where do you have your hearings at?


Posted by: RumRunner

oh man I hope they are doing better things than stopping for MV violations, but a good question anyway.


Posted by: DODK911

Quote:
Originally Posted by RumRunner
oh man I hope they are doing better things than stopping for MV violations, but a good question anyway.
What would you have Federal Police Officers do? What better things did you have in mind? As stated up above, depending on your angency, but most are and do the same work as a town or city cop. Writing citations for traffic offences is part of the job just like responding to medicals, MVA's, and domestics. Should we be doing other things then that as well? As for the citations they are processed through Hanscom Federal Magistrate. The number of citations issued depends on how motivated the officers are, just like any other PD.


Posted by: RumRunner

Quote:
Originally Posted by DODK911
What would you have Federal Police Officers do? What better things did you have in mind? As stated up above, depending on your angency, but most are and do the same work as a town or city cop. Writing citations for traffic offences is part of the job just like responding to medicals, MVA's, and domestics. Should we be doing other things then that as well? As for the citations they are processed through Hanscom Federal Magistrate. The number of citations issued depends on how motivated the officers are, just like any other PD.
I'd like to know that "real" Feds (FBI, DEA, USMS) are doing more important things than MV stops for broken tail lights.

Now... Here is a question for DODK911
As for processing your citations out of Hanscom... Even the SP's out at Hanscom process their violations out of the US District Court Worcester call (781) 377-2315 and ask them yourself. SO... how do you take your's out to Hanscom when there is no longer a US Magistrate out there to hear them?ahhhhhahahahah LIAR!

There are only 3 US District Courts in MA... Boston, Worcester, and Springfield.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by RumRunner
I'd like to know that "real" Feds (FBI, DEA, USMS) are doing more important things than MV stops for broken tail lights.

Now... Here is a question for DODK911
As for processing your citations out of Hanscom... Even the SP's out at Hanscom process their violations out of the US District Court Worcester call (781) 377-2315 and ask them yourself. SO... how do you take your's out to Hanscom when there is no longer a US Magistrate out there to hear them?ahhhhhahahahah LIAR!

There are only 3 US District Courts in MA... Boston, Worcester, and Springfield.
Ouch! Owned!!!


Posted by: Inspector71

Quote:
Originally Posted by RumRunner
I'd like to know that "real" Feds (FBI, DEA, USMS) are doing more important things than MV stops for broken tail lights.

Now... Here is a question for DODK911
As for processing your citations out of Hanscom... Even the SP's out at Hanscom process their violations out of the US District Court Worcester call (781) 377-2315 and ask them yourself. SO... how do you take your's out to Hanscom when there is no longer a US Magistrate out there to hear them?ahhhhhahahahah LIAR!

There are only 3 US District Courts in MA... Boston, Worcester, and Springfield.
WOW!

sounds like DODGay9 is busy with "MVA's and Domestics" Sounds like a very busy installation with concurrent jurisdiction. I wonder which one that would be?



Posted by: RumRunner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector71
WOW!
ahhhhahahahah roflmao

ok,
now that we flamed the dod guy
are there any other Feds who have an opinon on this issue before its gets too far off topic.


Posted by: jndaniel

If City of Boston was smart they should (I think FPS already has) set up MOU's with Federal Police Officers (0083 and/or Park Rangers) within the city to give them Boston citation books and Boston would collect all the revenue and the officers would still get credit for ticket writing and lock-ups.


Posted by: DODK911

Quote:
Originally Posted by RumRunner
I'd like to know that "real" Feds (FBI, DEA, USMS) are doing more important things than MV stops for broken tail lights.

Now... Here is a question for DODK911
As for processing your citations out of Hanscom... Even the SP's out at Hanscom process their violations out of the US District Court Worcester call (781) 377-2315 and ask them yourself. SO... how do you take your's out to Hanscom when there is no longer a US Magistrate out there to hear them?ahhhhhahahahah LIAR!

There are only 3 US District Courts in MA... Boston, Worcester, and Springfield.
If Hanscom doesnt have a magistrate any more then its only changed with in the last year or so. The last I knew they used Hanscom. Obviously that changed, I don't need to call the courts because I really don't care where Hanscom processes their citations.


Posted by: kojack1

ouch....BURNED


Posted by: 94c

can anyone cite the law for impersonating a federal officer?


Posted by: j809

Quote:
Originally Posted by DODK911
If Hanscom doesnt have a magistrate any more then its only changed with in the last year or so. The last I knew they used Hanscom. Obviously that changed, I don't need to call the courts because I really don't care where Hanscom processes their citations.
So you've done nothing in a year or so?


Posted by: jndaniel

Its in the Title 18 code chapter 43 can't recall the exact section somewhere around 910 and/or 915


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by jndaniel
Its in the Title 18 code chapter 43 can't recall the exact section somewhere around 910 and/or 915
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...Cite:+18USC912


Posted by: DODK911

Quote:
Originally Posted by j809
So you've done nothing in a year or so?
No, currently we cannot issue 1805's/CVN's, we can only issue 1408's (citations that dont cost money for each offense, but after 3 citations you lose your driving privalages for 90 days).


Posted by: Pinkos307

Quote:
Originally Posted by RumRunner
ahhhhahahahah roflmao

ok,
now that we flamed the dod guy
are there any other Feds who have an opinon on this issue before its gets too far off topic.
In the city we do MV stops. We are not out there hunting for mv infractions but if it happens in front of me, I will do what I need to do. As someone stated above, some of the best cases come from a MV stop.

As far as issuing citations (someone mentioned), we can issue collateral fines. But we do not see a $$ of any collateral fine we issue. All federal fines go towards some general fund in the federal gov't. It states this right on the back of the ticket.

We use the Moakley Courthouse in S. Boston. I know the Rangers out at Minuteman NHS (Concord and Lincoln, right next to Hanscom) go out to Worcester for court.


Posted by: jndaniel

For you fed officers (0083) if you make a lock-up just contact the AUSA and they will be the ones to determine what all you can charge them with. When I get a lock-up I take them straight to the pokey, call the AUSA tell them I have a customer for them and what I initially brought them in for and walk straight the hell and go back to work. Just tell me when the court date is.


Posted by: Inspector71

Quote:
Originally Posted by DODK911
No, currently we cannot issue 1805's/CVN's, we can only issue 1408's (citations that dont cost money for each offense, but after 3 citations you lose your driving privalages for 90 days).
So you don't process any real citations at all then? What if you get a OUI? will you call the MSP? I assume you call them for all your "domestics" as well?



Posted by: DODK911

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector71
So you don't process any real citations at all then? What if you get a OUI? will you call the MSP? I assume you call them for all your "domestics" as well?
Of course you would assume that because you are an ASS! No, you are wrong, we do not call or use the State Police, ever. You people want to tear me up because I thought that citations were still being processed at one place, but now they are processed somewhere else, but you people never have your facts straight and run your mouth constantly about crap you have no idea about. Atleast when I do make a post (which is not often) I am honest and have a clue (made a mistake on court) about what I am talking about to give people who care the information they asked about. You should try that before opening your mouths.


Posted by: Macop

Naw, that would make too much sence.


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by DODK911
No, you are wrong, we do not call or use the State Police, ever.
So what do you do with an OUI?


Posted by: mpd61

He probably P.C.'s em cuz he knows that the courts will let em go!


Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd61
He probably P.C.'s em cuz he knows that the courts will let em go!
Very reasonable course of action, but I don't believe there is a federal PC statute.


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
So what do you do with an OUI?
"Operator-requested tow"


Posted by: RumRunner

Quote:
Originally Posted by DODK911
Of course you would assume that because you are an ASS! No, you are wrong, we do not call or use the State Police, ever. You people want to tear me up because I thought that citations were still being processed at one place, but now they are processed somewhere else, but you people never have your facts straight and run your mouth constantly about crap you have no idea about. Atleast when I do make a post (which is not often) I am honest and have a clue (made a mistake on court) about what I am talking about to give people who care the information they asked about. You should try that before opening your mouths.
So now that we all know you work at "Natick" since Devens issues real citations and takes people to court what do you do with your domestics.
Don't answer we all know Natick PD takes your calls unless you care to LIE again.

I've taken some time to read your other posts here on masscops MR. FOP Lodge President that didn't know where his own agencies tickets were being processed for over a year. How lucky they are to have you leading them.
OH WAIT DOD NATICK HAS NEVER ISSUED 1805's you are such a liar. A mistake my ass. You think I have no idea about this "crap" I have more of a clue than you. So just keep posting your crap in this public fourm and I'll keep calling you on it

So DOD-LIAR you do not use the State Police ever? Wait, wait, wait smells like another lie... Yup it is.. Who do you call when you need a drug dog. Do you know anything? Just call the State Police and ask them yourself. They have given support to Natick several times. You are the dumbest ass I've seen in a while.

You should change your name to DOD GATE 9 "punk".

To all other DOD PD guys thanks for the job you do. Don't let guys like this "ass" give you a bad name. I don't think any of us care what you do your job is just as important as any of ours no need to lie about it.
I'm not a DOD PD basher this guy just makes me sick


Posted by: 94c

I even respect the job my garbage man does until he professes to be an environmental engineer.


Posted by: Pinkos307

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
Very reasonable course of action, but I don't believe there is a federal PC statute.
That is correct


Posted by: SinePari

Quote:
Originally Posted by RumRunner
So now that we all know you work at "Natick" since Devens issues real citations and takes people to court what do you do with your domestics.
Don't answer we all know Natick PD takes your calls unless you care to LIE again.it

So DOD-LIAR you do not use the State Police ever? Wait, wait, wait smells like another lie... Yup it is.. Who do you call when you need a drug dog. Do you know anything? Just call the State Police and ask them yourself. They have given support to Natick several times. You are the dumbest ass I've seen in a while.
Maybe they call Middlesex Sheriffs with their heliokopterz and speedy-boats


Posted by: Macop

wow, you guys are so manly with your banter, lol.


Posted by: csauce777

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94c
I even respect the job my garbage man does until he professes to be an environmental engineer.
I hear garbage men make pretty good coin


Posted by: FedCop

The Fort Devens (formerly Devens RFTA) Police Department prosecutes all offenses and traffic tickets at the Worcester U.S. District Court. Hanscom AFB stopped having trials this past June.


Posted by: Inspector71

Quote:
Originally Posted by FedCop
The Fort Devens (formerly Devens RFTA) Police Department prosecutes all offenses and traffic tickets at the Worcester U.S. District Court. Hanscom AFB stopped having trials this past June.
Didn't we allready establish that fact earlier? So what kind of "offenses" are prosecuted @ USDC Worcester?



Posted by: FedCop

All offenses are "tried" at the U.S. District Court, Worcester. Simple traffic offenses and major crimes, which can consist of serious assaults, major fraud cases, and any of the index crimes are handled in Worcester, working in conjunction with the U.S. Attorney's Office. I do not want to divulge the intricate details of the process of prosecuting, for fear of boring you guys to death. Just remember that the federal government operates differently than state/ municipal L.E. After all, combatting crime is still mostly considered a state function.


Posted by: mpd61

Awesome answer! Way to go fedcop



Posted by: RumRunner

Thanks Fedcop for the great response and for keeping it short...Mike Sullivan is a great resource for answering federal questions like this. Although
a US Attorney is a very personable guy.

I've done my fair share of trips to the Donohue Building. FEDCOP is right, its a bit of a proccess especially since the Boston office controls what goes on in the western offices.

What was the original topic of this thread again... (J/K)




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