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Universities rethink unarmed police

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: kwflatbed

By Kevin Johnson
USA TODAY


BLACKSBURG, Va. — Five months after the Virginia Tech massacre, some of the few remaining universities that do not permit campus police to carry guns are rethinking the firearms bans.


Austin Peay State University police officers Timothy Adair, left, and Piot Bol
clear a stairway during a mock shooting training session on campus this July,
which included city and campus police.
(By Greg Williamson, The Leaf-Chronicle via AP)

The April 16 tragedy, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history, prompted a national reassessment of campus security plans, including whether to arm police who had not previously carried guns.

"There are police forces that have the responsibility to make life and safety decisions, and they don't have the full equipment to do it," says Raymond Thrower Jr., president of the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators.
"It's like giving a firefighter a car and telling him to go put out the fire without the truck and the rest of the equipment."

Many public universities already have armed police, according to the Justice Department, which is poised to release a new report on campus police agencies in November. The department's most recent report, in 1996, found 81% of public universities had armed police agencies. It expects to see a slight increase in the number of campuses permitting officers to carry guns.
Among universities and legislatures weighing changes:

• On Tuesday, Iowa Gov. Chet Culver, a 1988 Virginia Tech graduate, endorsed a recommendation to arm officers at the state's three public universities, which serve more than 50,000 students.
"Unfortunately, horrific acts, like the one at Virginia Tech, can take place," Culver says.
The Board of Regents, the governing body for the universities, this week asked for a safety plan that would include arming campus police.

•Nevada education officials next month plan to take up a proposal to allow some college faculty members and staffers across eight public campuses to carry guns as part of a special reserve officer corps.Half the Nevada schools allow campus police to carry guns.

•Auburn University, which in 2004 allowed the city of Auburn, Ala., to take over its armed police patrols, is expected within the next month to receive an assessment of its entire security operation, including its agreement with the city, says Bob Ritenbaugh, a university assistant vice president.

• In Oregon, a legislative proposal to permit university officers to carry firearms failed earlier this year, leaving all serious law enforcement issues at the University of Oregon and other public colleges to state and local police.

The proposal has been offered twice in the past three legislative sessions and will likely come up again, says Dawn Phillips, a spokeswoman for Republican Rep. Linda Flores, who supported the bill.
Although the proposal predated the Tech shooting, Phillips says it was "mired in the politics around the Virginia Tech" tragedy.
"It was too close to the Virginia Tech shootings," says Democrat Rep. Suzanne Bonamici, an opponent of the bill. "I didn't believe it was the right bill to approach the problem."

Brian Reaves, author of the new Justice Department report, says a few large campus agencies remain unarmed, despite the mass shooting at Virginia Tech.
"You would think that after Virginia Tech, it would be a slam-dunk argument," Reaves says.

Wire Services


Posted by: Sgt K

Long overdue! Arm them all!


Posted by: CHICwithBADGE

I don't know boys you should see half the so called men I work with. I would not want them carrying guns. I think select officers should be able to carry. They might need a higher standard for qualification with the campus cops. I'm ready to carry but some of the older guys would not even know what to do with the gun if they had to use it. I just signed up to masscops because I heard about information on this subject. Thanks guys.


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICwithBADGE
I don't know boys you should see half the so called men I work with. I would not want them carrying guns. I think select officers should be able to carry. They might need a higher standard for qualification with the campus cops. I'm ready to carry but some of the older guys would not even know what to do with the gun if they had to use it. I just signed up to masscops because I heard about information on this subject. Thanks guys.
What about the other half? Would you penalize them based on your opinion? let everyone have the chance to do the following;

A. qualify in safe carry and operation of firearm (3x yearly)
B. train with firearm in tactics like active shooter, etc...

This will tell you who really can/can't hack it with firearms.



Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICwithBADGE
I don't know boys you should see half the so called men I work with. I would not want them carrying guns. I think select officers should be able to carry. They might need a higher standard for qualification with the campus cops. I'm ready to carry but some of the older guys would not even know what to do with the gun if they had to use it. I just signed up to masscops because I heard about information on this subject. Thanks guys.
Contrary to what we'd like to believe, it doesn't take a lot of raw intelligence to carry a firearm safely. I spent many years in the military carrying loaded weapons with people who had room temperature IQ's, and they managed to not shoot themselves or their fellow soldiers.


Posted by: pahapoika

there are allot more things dangerous in the hands of guys like power tools , ovens , washing machines, etc
</IMG>


Posted by: 94c

you left out that ever so dangerous dishwasher that no man should be allowed to operate.


Posted by: badgebunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICwithBADGE
I don't know boys you should see half the so called men I work with. I would not want them carrying guns. I think select officers should be able to carry. They might need a higher standard for qualification with the campus cops. I'm ready to carry but some of the older guys would not even know what to do with the gun if they had to use it. I just signed up to masscops because I heard about information on this subject. Thanks guys.
Are you f****** serious? There are campus cops fighting to get armed and I am sure the standards for arming campus police are quite high! Who made you judge and jury on who should and should not carry? You state that you should be allowed to, but not them...why?


Posted by: CHICwithBADGE

Wow I did not know the strong feelings people had over this. I do take your point of view serious. Im just saying that I have seen many many many men that I work with be unfit to carry. These are college kids and the key word here is KIDS. Kids don't respond well to beatings and threats. Im not saying it can't come to that if needed but the effect will be negative. HEY have you ever tried talking to people instead of shooting them. Guess what it works. Whats next for college police a HELICOPTER or maybe a BOAT, no wait a minute PATROL RIFLES, yaah PATROL RIFLES thats what the kids respond to. Just think of all the unqualified HEROES out there flying around in the brids and floating around in the water pointing huge PATROL RIFLES at Kids. I mean look at the nut from MIT at the airport. These kids are stupid, rrreeeaaalll stupid. So lets all get together so we can talk about the best way to handle the biggest problem in our society today KIDS. Never mind that homeland security BS it all just communist propaganda anyway, right GWB. The bottom line here is these KIDS. Let focus all our attention and law enforement resources on firearms for Campus Cops.

Lets all grow up. These KIDS have to.


Posted by: COto50

I believe the fire are is a law enforcement resource. If you haven't noticed that there are eighteen and nineteen (college age kids) killing each other every day. I think these campus cops should be armed after they go through a training course and become department qualified. Times are changing and campus cops should have all the same resources available to them as regular cops.


Posted by: new guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICwithBADGE
Wow I did not know the strong feelings people had over this. I do take your point of view serious. Im just saying that I have seen many many many men that I work with be unfit to carry. These are college kids and the key word here is KIDS. Kids don't respond well to beatings and threats. Im not saying it can't come to that if needed but the effect will be negative. HEY have you ever tried talking to people instead of shooting them. Guess what it works. Whats next for college police a HELICOPTER or maybe a BOAT, no wait a minute PATROL RIFLES, yaah PATROL RIFLES thats what the kids respond to. Just think of all the unqualified HEROES out there flying around in the brids and floating around in the water pointing huge PATROL RIFLES at Kids. I mean look at the nut from MIT at the airport. These kids are stupid, rrreeeaaalll stupid. So lets all get together so we can talk about the best way to handle the biggest problem in our society today KIDS. Never mind that homeland security BS it all just communist propaganda anyway, right GWB. The bottom line here is these KIDS. Let focus all our attention and law enforement resources on firearms for Campus Cops.

Lets all grow up. These KIDS have to.
Wow your all over the map here. "Try talking to them," what a novel idea. I usually start off by firing a few rounds. The reason why campus police should be armed is because during the course of there duties to protect and serve the college community, they may come accross a dangerous criminal. Yes it does happen. That dangerous criminal can be an intruder, college employee gone bad, or like in the VT case, it may be a student. Nobody's suggesting that you use a firearm as a means of getting a college kid to respond or for any other reason where deadly force is not necessary.


Posted by: CHICwithBADGE

True True


Posted by: 94c

[quote=CHICwithBADGE]I don't know boys you should see half the so called men I work with. [quote]

sounds like you have a problem with the male species.


Posted by: badgebunny

Ummmm....I know many poeple that are campus police officers and I will tell you that it is because of people like you and your way of thinking that campus police have the difficult task of trying to get armed! Many of my friends have assisted their local department with calls which have included for one gang bangers. They NEVER know what they are going to walk into! How about what a FPD officer recently had to deal with....he was flagged down for a "person down" behind a building and as the officer went to get out of his car he was charged at by the party that flagged him down with a knife in his hand. The officer had to shoot and killed that idiot. Now let me ask you this Miss Chicwithbadge....do you think that could be a campus police officer? Think about the fact that most colleges allow their students to bring guests onto the property and that you never know who is going to be on your campus. As others have said it is a completely different world and there is more and more campus and school violence happening now. What the hell are the officers suppose to do that are not armed? Pretty much all they can do is set up a perimeter and get everyone out of harms way as best they can until the calvary arrives. It can take at least 40-45 minutes to get a team together to assist in a crazy situation like that. So why not arm CPOs? The job is the same as a municipal or state officer...to serve and protect...just in a different setting!


Posted by: CHICwithBADGE

Like whatever hun, Oh and I think State Officers like to be called Troopers don't they, hun


Posted by: andy0921

Catfight!



Posted by: KozmoKramer

Before you all get too spun up by our newest assclown member, anyone remember this assclown? A word to the wise...
Thank Harry for the collar..



Posted by: badgebunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICwithBADGE
Like whatever hun, Oh and I think State Officers like to be called Troopers don't they, hun
Don't call me hun! You don't have that right...you haven't been here long enough...and yeah I know they are called STATE TROOPERS....it was a general statement!!! And how the hell do you know that I am NOT a trooper? Just because my profile says police officer...oh no maybe I should post the words so everyone knows exactly what kind of PO I am...oooohhh! So again before you speak THINK!!!

Andy...hahaha...you know that I would win ANY catfight!!!


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICwithBADGE
Like whatever hun, Oh and I think State Officers like to be called Troopers don't they, hun
Female Troll!!!!!! Be gone you foul-minded witch!


Badgebunny,
You know better than to even dignify this "chic" with an answer...


Posted by: Wolfman




Posted by: badgebunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd61
Female Troll!!!!!! Be gone you foul-minded witch!


Badgebunny,
You know better than to even dignify this "chic" with an answer...
True mpd61...I apologize to everyone here for my un-Bunny like behavior. Please forgive me?

Wolfman....hahahaha


Posted by: NIGHTSTIX

i agree with chicwithbadge, have u seen these guys and girls roaming around local campus like a bunch of overweight want a be cop tackle berry. I certainly dont feel comfortable with these guys providing safety and security. god help us all if we put guns in thier sloppy hands. by the way, badge bunny u need to act alittle more professional......if u say u are a Trooper i dont think u would be acting this way.


Posted by: Wolfman

When will people realize that they will be taken much more seriously if they would simply devote an extra 30 seconds to making their posts easily readable by anyone over the age of 8? For Chrissakes, "nightstix", you've been a member for two whole days, that's more than enough time to find the "Shift" key on your keyboard and use the word "you" instead of "u". I realize it's a whole two more letters but really....


Posted by: 5-0

Quote:
Originally Posted by NIGHTSTIX
i agree with chicwithbadge, have u seen these guys and girls roaming around local campus like a bunch of overweight want a be cop tackle berry. I certainly dont feel comfortable with these guys providing safety and security. god help us all if we put guns in thier sloppy hands. by the way, badge bunny u need to act alittle more professional......if u say u are a Trooper i dont think u would be acting this way.
Wow, it looks like all of the rocket scientists are coming out for this one. I love the attitude of people against arming campus police officers. If you really have a problem with the condition of 'some' officers, then you can point the finger at liberal college administrators who don't really want Police on their campus.

You sir, along with chicwithbadge, are hypocrits. I bet that if the defication hit the oscillation on a campus, you would run to us like sheep. The reality is that its insane to place us in police uniforms, give us arrest powers, and then refuse to give us the tools to enforce those powers. Do you even have a clue about the psychology of a dirtbag? If either one of you are police officers, and you haven't noticed people looking at the stuff on your duty belt, you are terrible officers. They size us and our weapons up the second we encounter them. We put our lives on the line (in some cases for spoiled brats who care less) and don't need people like you coming on with your shitty 2c.

Quote:
Im just saying that I have seen many many many men that I work with be unfit to carry. These are college kids and the key word here is KIDS. Kids don't respond well to beatings and threats. Im not saying it can't come to that if needed but the effect will be negative. HEY have you ever tried talking to people instead of shooting them. Guess what it works. Whats next for college police a HELICOPTER or maybe a BOAT, no wait a minute PATROL RIFLES, yaah PATROL RIFLES thats what the kids respond to. Just think of all the unqualified HEROES out there flying around in the brids and floating around in the water pointing huge PATROL RIFLES at Kids. I mean look at the nut from MIT at the airport. These kids are stupid, rrreeeaaalll stupid. So lets all get together so we can talk about the best way to handle the biggest problem in our society today KIDS. Never mind that homeland security BS it all just communist propaganda anyway, right GWB. The bottom line here is these KIDS. Let focus all our attention and law enforement resources on firearms for Campus Cops.

Lets all grow up. These KIDS have to.
Many many many men? Are you Commandant Lassard? (10 points if you know that obscure reference)
So... firearms=beatings and threats? Please pull your head out of your ass. Do you consider a 22 year old 220 pound football player a kid? Add beer and tell me how cute they are. The other problem is that college campuses are full of chemicals, technology, and sometimes sensitve materials (ie Nuclear materials). We are not just watching kids, and your silly argument just belies a denial that may some day get you or a partner killed.


Posted by: badgebunny

[quote=NIGHTSTIX]i agree with chicwithbadge, have u seen these guys and girls roaming around local campus like a bunch of overweight want a be cop tackle berry. I certainly dont feel comfortable with these guys providing safety and security. god help us all if we put guns in thier sloppy hands. by the way, badge bunny u need to act alittle more professional......if u say u are a Trooper i dont think u would be acting this way.[/quote


...oohhh....I should act more professional? What about you? You sit here and pass judgement on campus police officers....many people that I know, that are campus police officers are EXTREMELY fit and are not the "want to be cop". Many municipal officers started as campus police officers. I am willing to bet that some of the officers you work with (since you say you are a "cop") were once campus police officers. Your way of thinking...hmmm...so the municipal officers that are overweight and act like "Tackleberry" (and you know they exist)...should we take away their firearms? Ummmm...probably not...like I said before campus police do the same job as municipal officers, state troopers (don't want to generalize again)...they are serving and protecting...job is the same and CPOs deal with gang bangers and other knuckle heads like every other officer. Don't put down CPOs...their academy is harder then any municipal academy. I am willing to bet that you would NEVER be able to complete the SSPO academy!!! Don't tell me how I should be acting...there are many people on here that are troopers, municipal officers, CPOs, COs, etc. maybe you should check out some the previous posts and read the attitudes of people when trolls make dumb statements. I never said that I was or that I wasn't a trooper. What I said was how do you know I am not one...read the post. You tell me to act more professional take your own advice!


Posted by: MM1799

Police officers carry guns. Fill in "state", "local" or "campus" as you wish.
If you don't think campus POs should be armed, I have a hard time believing you are a PO -- let alone a campus PO.


Posted by: Delta784

I wager a fair amount that "Nightstix" = "Mechanixman".

Someone please give him two in the hat.


Posted by: csauce777

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICwithBADGE
These kids are stupid, rrreeeaaalll stupid.
You are stupid, rrreeeaaalll stupid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta784
Someone please give him two in the hat.
I'm on it Delta...


Posted by: CHICwithBADGE

First off, I didn't mean to start a cat fight in this thread and stop picking on Nightstick. He's the only one who stuck up for me. And Big Irish too. I thought this was America and the forums on MassCops were a place to freely express your opinions. I didn't know soooooo many people who claim they're cops have such thin skin, Badge Bunny did i hurt your feelings, sorrrrrrrry. I just have a difference of opinion so deal with it. And There are many many many men I work with who are not fit to carry a potato gun, noneless a real weapon. I think there should be high standards for armed campus police. And please Badge Bunny, don't respond to this post because your opinion is useless to me.


Posted by: pahapoika

so who gets to pick whether the cop can carry or not , you ?

and what criteria do they have to meet ?

cute , maybe a nice ass ?


Posted by: csauce777

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICwithBADGE
stop picking on Nightstick. He's the only one who stuck up for me.
And for good reason...

Quote:
I thought this was America and the forums on MassCops were a place to freely express your opinions.
Nope...you were wrong, this is Masscops...screw off

Quote:
I didn't know soooooo many people who claim they're cops have such thin skin
We didnt know there was someone claiming to be a cop that was such an idiot...

Quote:
Badge Bunny did i hurt your feelings, sorrrrrrrry. I just have a difference of opinion so deal with it.
I'm not sure you will last too long if you're going to start fights with people who are well liked.

Quote:
And There are many many many men I work with who are not fit to carry a potato gun, noneless a real weapon.
I am willing to bet these "many many many men" are saying that they work with one woman who isnt fit to carry shit...

Quote:
I think there should be high standards for armed campus police.
So do we...so quit...

Quote:
And please Badge Bunny, don't respond to this post because your opinion is useless to me.
You are useless to us...so leave


Posted by: andy0921

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICwithBADGE stop picking on Nightstick. He's the only one who stuck up for me.
That's because he is obviously a complete moron.


Posted by: CHICwithBADGE

Nice picture andy!


Posted by: badgebunny

CSauce777....thanks!!! And to all you guys/gals on here that have my back thanks...you are the best!!!

I just want to apologize to everyone and anyone that may have had their feelings hurt! Not my intentions. You guys/gals know that I am not usually like that and for that I am sorry. I was having a rough couple of days and the posts just infuriated me since some of my very good friends are CPOs. Anyway...just a note...I heard recently about a female party that has a boyfriend that carries a knife on his person and just recently got released from prison. She brings him onto the campus to spend the night. I see a potential problem...but what do I know...lol! And again like I said before campus and school violence is definately on the rise. Take the incident that happened at a high school yesterday. Now tell me CPOs don't need to be armed.

Okay so now I am done with this! Can we please close this thread?
Stay safe all! And I mean it!




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