MassCops - Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network, A Mass Police Web Portal

Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network

Massachusetts Police News, Information and Discussions on MassCops



Pages: 1
Main Page

A&B on a P.O.

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: daveh

In regards to the "municipal" element of A&B on a P.O., how do the courts interpret the charge as it pertains to campus police in your area? Is it generally accepted, or do they challenge that you are not officers? Just curious.


Posted by: Muggsy09

No problem here in Franklin. Wrentham District Court always accepts our charges. None have been thorwn out because the court didn't reconize Campus Police as officers.


Posted by: masstoazcop

When I worked at one of the Cambridge campus departments, we had no problems with the courts when we charges A&B on a PO


Posted by: Gil

smatson, is this a court that is questioning your position or a pond scum sucking lawyer that brought it up in a case?


Posted by: Sgt_110

The Hampden County Courts and Holyoke District Court in particular have never given us a problem, nor have they ever rejected a charge on A&B of a campus PO when we have filed same against a defendant.


Posted by: fscpd903

smatson, I was the victim of one just after we got out of the Academy, and it flew with no problem at all, the suspect was charged with disorderly , resisting and A&B PO and nobody even questioned it


Posted by: daveh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil";p=&quot View Post
smatson, is this a court that is questioning your position or a pond scum sucking lawyer that brought it up in a case?
Gil,
In the Northampton district courts A&B on P.O. will not fly, they cite case law that states that a campus police officer is not a "municipal officer", therefore, the case will not fly. Officers have to charge the offender with assault and battery only. I thought this was absurd and I wondered if any other departments ran into this. If you are familiar with Northampton you understand the liberal philosophy. Just be lucky that your defense attny. did not find this case law! It really should be reviewed and rewritten! As is the case with many laws. *sigh I am surprised that no one else has run into this!


Posted by: Gil

I have actually heard A&B P.O. has been questioned by some in the courts, lawyers and others that think being assaulted comes with the job and defendants should not be charged with it.

I also know of an officer that will never charge for A&B on a PO so that he can take the defendant to civil court if he so chooses. Apparently if you charge them with A&B PO you can't take any civil action against them.


Posted by: HousingCop

Many moons ago while I was a rookie in Roxbury District Court, I witnessed Judge Redd tell a Boston cop that the A&B PO charge should be dropped and there should be no such law. He went on further stating that it's part of the PO's job.

The officer calmly stated that it's not in his job description to get whacked by a scumbag and it's not in the Judges job description either. So who was he (Redd) to make laws from the bench? Wow, what a set of balls on that old timer. He retired soon after but I did tell him I enjoyed his reply immensely.

I think if a campus PO can arrest under state statue, he or she should be covered by the ABPO statue as well.


Posted by: Irishpride

Smatson,

It has held where I work. I am wondering though if the real issue that Northampton Courts has is with the fact that you work for a private school and not a governmental agency (just a thought). Since A&B on a PO falls under Chp. 265 Sec. 13D (A&B on a Public Employee) and you are not a public employee the courts may be taking a strict interpretation and viewing private college CPO's as private sector not public employees, therefore not covered under 265/13D. Personally I don't like it at all, and I feel what the legislature should do is adopt a specific statute for Police Officers much like there is for EMT's in Chp. 265 sec. 13I. Unfortunately without that type of wording there is a loophole for Police Officers employed by private colleges.


Posted by: Mitpo62

Just charge the POS with A&B, period. The penalty is the same.


Posted by: USMCMP5811

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitpo62";p=&quot View Post
Just charge the POS with A&B, period. The penalty is the same.
I can almost agree with you on that point, however, should one of us have to deal with the limey POS in the future, it would be nice to know when we run their BOP that they have a history of A & B PO and resisting, to be just a little more prepared.

just my $0.02


Posted by: Mitpo62

Excellent point! That's why it is important to charge with everythng when dealing with such a POS. The BOP will then reflect the colorful past.


Posted by: j809

We had no problem charging people with this at the State College PD. We were public employees and sworn in under 22C S.63. Charge them anyway and let the DA downgrade it.


Posted by: ecpd402

I learned in the academy that you should charge a person with A&B on a PO if they hit you. However I have done this and was told by Boston Police as well as Boston Municipal court that since I work for a private college I cannot charge with A&B on a PO. am 22c Sec 63 but BMC (Boston Municipal Court) will not allow the charge


Posted by: tomfin

Brockton District Court treats us like they do Town Cops no differance I'm the procecutor for our department anything I bring to the courts they proscess. We also have a very good conviction rate


Posted by: DC813

I'm sure a clever defense attorney looked at the "public employee" aspect of the charge and stated that a private college police officer is NOT an "public employee". The charge doesn't just cover police officers. Once the precedent is set, it's tough to change it.

CHAPTER 265. CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON

Chapter 265: Section 13D Assault and battery upon public employees; penalty

Section 13D. Whoever commits an assault and battery upon any public employee when such person is engaged in the performance of his duties at the time of such assault and battery, shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than ninety days nor more than two and one-half years in a house of correction or by a fine of not less than five hundred nor more than five thousand dollars.


Posted by: LenS

When I was appointed a Special PO (for a municipality), the Chief told me (and the rest of us) that he would NOT allow us to charge A&B PO regardless of any facts. Even though we were sworn, academy trained, armed and fully qualified, he told us that although we had the legal authority to arrest, he strongly "suggested" that we NOT do it and call a FT PO to make any arrest. Another of his positions was that if we made an arrest, we'd be required to go to court on our own time and he wouldn't allow us to get paid mileage or a witness fee! [Keep in mind that we worked paid shifts and details as well as provided freebie services for town events.]

Certainly not the best of situations!


Posted by: PearlOnyx

Simlarly, I've heard horror stories about A&B Correctional Officer, is often dropped down to simple A&B, because it is "part of the job".


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by LenS";p=&quot View Post
When I was appointed a Special PO (for a municipality), the Chief told me (and the rest of us) that he would NOT allow us to charge A&B PO regardless of any facts. Even though we were sworn, academy trained, armed and fully qualified, he told us that although we had the legal authority to arrest, he strongly "suggested" that we NOT do it and call a FT PO to make any arrest. Another of his positions was that if we made an arrest, we'd be required to go to court on our own time and he wouldn't allow us to get paid mileage or a witness fee! [Keep in mind that we worked paid shifts and details as well as provided freebie services for town events.]

Certainly not the best of situations!
Well then.............

May a detainee throw feces on that Chief someday!



Posted by: LenS

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd61";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenS";p=&quot View Post
When I was appointed a Special PO (for a municipality), the Chief told me (and the rest of us) that he would NOT allow us to charge A&B PO regardless of any facts. Even though we were sworn, academy trained, armed and fully qualified, he told us that although we had the legal authority to arrest, he strongly "suggested" that we NOT do it and call a FT PO to make any arrest. Another of his positions was that if we made an arrest, we'd be required to go to court on our own time and he wouldn't allow us to get paid mileage or a witness fee! [Keep in mind that we worked paid shifts and details as well as provided freebie services for town events.]

Certainly not the best of situations!
Well then.............

May a detainee throw feces on that Chief someday!
Well, that Chief has been gone since 1985 or 1986, from cancer unfortunately. Two chiefs later and not much has changed, except I'm not with the PD any more (and none of us that worked with me as PT are still there except for a few who went FT).


Posted by: Deputydog522

I used to work for a hospital in Boston and we were sworn deputy sheriffs and had a case where I charged A+B PO with other numerous charges and the judge turned around and said because I am not a full time police officer the charge is being dropped!!!!! I looked at my badge and it said police and I looked at my patch and it said police and I work 40 hours a week and I know I was not a full time municipal cop but still I was a campus police officer. I just don't get it we are all doing the same job whether you are working for a town, city, hospital,college,or where ever you work if you have police written on your patch and badge I think the courts should recognize A+B on a PO for every police officer out there.


Posted by: NACop

Well............
Lets throw dog poop on that Judge, and hope that he's still alive, right MPD61?



Posted by: union1

Ive gotten all my ABPO charges through BMC. I have herd horror stories about one particular Boston Lt, (Chinese, Guy) who refuses to let them through. He did try it on me once and I told him to change the 1/1. He wouldnt do that and I had no problem with BMC.


Posted by: michaelbos

Oh him, yeah he's on channel 50 and there's only 10 channels

But District One under Mr O'Rouke does not like outside agencies. But I found out many moons ago, it's a small world.


Posted by: DC813

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deputydog522";p=&quot View Post
I used to work for a hospital in Boston and we were sworn deputy sheriffs and had a case where I charged A+B PO with other numerous charges and the judge turned around and said because I am not a full time police officer the charge is being dropped!!!!! I looked at my badge and it said police and I looked at my patch and it said police and I work 40 hours a week and I know I was not a full time municipal cop but still I was a campus police officer. I just don't get it we are all doing the same job whether you are working for a town, city, hospital,college,or where ever you work if you have police written on your patch and badge I think the courts should recognize A+B on a PO for every police officer out there.
Unless you worked for a public hospital (municipal or state hospital), you were an employee of a private institution. Having been sworn in as a deputy sheriff or SSPO or anything doesn't make you an employee of that the Sheriffs department or the State Police. The charge is a&b on a public employee, not police officer.....


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelbos";p=&quot View Post
Oh him, yeah he's on channel 50 and there's only 10 channels

But District One under Mr O'Rouke does not like outside agencies. But I found out many moons ago, it's a small world.
Mike,

You should have got him plastered at the FOP lodge back when you had the chance!



Posted by: DVET1979

As it was said before, if you really want the POS to spend a night in jail, just charge for regular A&B, arrestable in presence.


Posted by: USMCMP5811

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVET1979";p=&quot View Post
As it was said before, if you really want the POS to spend a night in jail, just charge for regular A&B, arrestable in presence.


Ahhhhhhh, but as I said before. AN A&B PO on a perps BOP is like herpies. It's the gift that keeps on giving........


Posted by: RPD931

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC813";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deputydog522";p=&quot View Post
I used to work for a hospital in Boston and we were sworn deputy sheriffs and had a case where I charged A+B PO with other numerous charges and the judge turned around and said because I am not a full time police officer the charge is being dropped!!!!! I looked at my badge and it said police and I looked at my patch and it said police and I work 40 hours a week and I know I was not a full time municipal cop but still I was a campus police officer. I just don't get it we are all doing the same job whether you are working for a town, city, hospital,college,or where ever you work if you have police written on your patch and badge I think the courts should recognize A+B on a PO for every police officer out there.
Unless you worked for a public hospital (municipal or state hospital), you were an employee of a private institution. Having been sworn in as a deputy sheriff or SSPO or anything doesn't make you an employee of that the Sheriffs department or the State Police. The charge is a&b on a public employee, not police officer.....
It depends on the court. This does stick in some courts.


Posted by: Crvtte65

Quote:
Originally Posted by HousingCop";p=&quot View Post
Many moons ago while I was a rookie in Roxbury District Court, I witnessed Judge Redd tell a Boston cop that the A&B PO charge should be dropped and there should be no such law. He went on further stating that it's part of the PO's job.

The officer calmly stated that it's not in his job description to get whacked by a scumbag and it's not in the Judges job description either. So who was he (Redd) to make laws from the bench? Wow, what a set of balls on that old timer. He retired soon after but I did tell him I enjoyed his reply immensely.

I think if a campus PO can arrest under state statue, he or she should be covered by the ABPO statue as well.
RDC has changed, it goes now for NU. Or I should say, that judges are accepting it


Posted by: bikecop34

Well, just had one Saturday night (big surprise) and the fine young gentleman who felt he was being wronged..."You can't arrest me! I'm a -------- College student", should be arraigned in Hadley...which pretty much has the same judges as Northampton anyway. Well have to wait and see I guess.




ma police, boston ma police, massachusetts police, massachusetts police, mass state police, mass police, ma, mass, massachusetts, massachusetts, massachutes, massachusetts law, massachusetts polece, police, officer, police officer, cops, police gear, law enforcement, police duty gear, state police, sheriff, law, police supply, police agency directory, police agency, police department, traffic officer, police dept, state trooper, dispatcher, massachusetts county sheriff, massachusetts sheriff, massachusetts department of corrections, ma doc, doc, dept of corrections, police information, civil service, ma civil service, massachusetts crime, police training, police academy, ma police academy, massachusetts officers, masscop, masscops, mpa, bpa, ibpoa, police association, massachusetts police news, massachusetts crime news, mass most wanted, police career information, police patrol, police administration, police books, crime scene training, police discussion, crime discussions, cops

About MassCops, the home for Massachusetts law enforcement.

The Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network opened in 1998 and is now a part of the New England Police Network The site is a pro-police discussion forum intended for sworn police officers and civilian law enforcement officials as well as those interested in pursuing a career in law enforcement here in Massachusetts.

The goal of The Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network is to provide an informal network of law enforcement officials here in Massachusetts for educational and informational purposes.

The forum covers many topics such as Police Related News Articles, Agency & Profession Discussions, Police Training as well as Law Enforcement Career Information.

The Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network and The New England Police Network (NEPN) and it's network sites are privately owned websites/domains and are not affiliated with or endorsed by any government association or agency.

MassCops (masscops.com) and (masscop.com) are privately owned are not affiliated with or endorsed by the Massachusetts Coalition of Police (masscop.org)



vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vB Easy Archive Final ©2000 - 2008 - Created by Stefan "Xenon" Kaeser

3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 49 50 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108