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Main Page Drunken Cops
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: kwflatbed

Tim Dees
Editor-in-Chief
Officer.com

This column isn’t just about cops that get drunk. This column is about cops that get drunk and then drive cars. To commit the offense of drunk driving in this context demonstrates a level of irresponsibility and bad judgment that far exceeds that of the typical drunk driver.
Drunk driving has always been one of my pet peeves. When I was a cop, I was “the DUI guy.” Sometimes I had DUI enforcement as my primary assignment, but more often I would just find them (in the city where I worked, they would find you if you stayed in one place long enough), or other officers would call me to take them off their hands, something I was all too happy to do. They would write a brief supplemental report detailing their reason for the stop, and I would take it from there. Unless the case went to trial, they were free to resume whatever they had been doing. I knew that this person was not going to be the cause of someone having to be scraped off of their windshield later in the day, and that gave me considerable satisfaction.

Full Article: http://www.officer.com/interactive/2...0/drunkencops/

Posted by: Delta784

Mr. Dees is what I refer to as "the eternal rookie"; someone who never got over the initial naivety of a cop just out of the academy....everything is black & white, bad guys who are arrested will go to jail, etc.

I go out of my way to avoid OUI arrests, because it's a complete & total waste of time and effort. The only people who benefit are defense lawyers and certain people at the district court, so I don't play the game anymore, be it a cop or citizen.

Posted by: THE RP

If anyone doubts Delta's realistic point of view just try locking up one of those same defense attornies after he crashes into two occupied vehicles while hammered (with PI) and see what happens...It will make you a believer quick..Laws written in this state by lawyers, for the profit and benefit of lawyers, under the guise of public safety...Beating a dead horse, I know..

"The DUI guy" what a nice thing for the resume....If thats what you want to be.

Posted by: Kem25

I guess they don't have " owner request tow" and taxi cabs where that guy is from! Unless someone really deserves to be arrested (everybody has dealt with that person) why screw somebody over on an OUI stop?

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

I go out of my way to avoid OUI arrests, because it's a complete & total waste of time and effort. The only people who benefit are defense lawyers and certain people at the district court, so I don't play the game anymore, be it a cop or citizen.

I completely disagree...drunk drivers are public safety hazards, pure and simple. There is no ambiguity, no moral qualms, no sympathy. I would guess more than half of the accidents caused in this country are alcohol related, so when police officers lock up some drunk, they're probably saving someone's life. I pride myself on having good OUI reports and have only lost a few of cases out of literally hundreds...I may lose, but I win a lot more. Besides, even if I lose, I get overtime for court, I make the asshole pay thousands for a lawyer, and their license still gets suspended...which usually leads to more trouble as the person drives on their suspended license. It's a home run!

I won't take the attitude that just because I can't stop something, I won't do anything about it...if that were true, I'd resign today. I just do the best I can and try to do something worthwhile in this world.

Posted by: lpwpd722

Killjoy, you made my day. I love these words: "I won't take the attitude that just because I can't stop something, I won't do anything about it...if that were true, I'd resign today. I just do the best I can and try to do something worthwhile in this world." You are awsome.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

I never said I let them drive away. As long as they haven't hurt anyone or damaged anyone's property, they get PC'ed, their car towed, and they get whatever civil infraction I stopped them for in the first place. In these parts, that's a hell of a lot more than the courts will give them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

I pride myself on having good OUI reports and have only lost a few of cases out of literally hundreds...I may lose, but I win a lot more. Besides, even if I lose, I get overtime for court, I make the asshole pay thousands for a lawyer, and their license still gets suspended...which usually leads to more trouble as the person drives on their suspended license. It's a home run!

You've obviously never had the pleasure of an OUI in Quincy District CWOF....I mean Court. If MADD ever looked into that rat's nest, they'd be busy for years. We don't get overtime for OUI's, because ALL first offense OUI's are CWOF'ed, and even some second offense. I was one of the officers who arrested Melanie Powell's (Melanie's Law) uncle for 2nd offense OUI, A&B on a P/O, A&B D/W, and a host of other charges;

http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=8711"

He didn't do a single day in jail, and had his license back 42 days after being arrested. So much for the 3 year suspension for a 2nd breath test refusal, eh?

If you don't believe me, do an R3 on him (it's a unique name), and check his driving history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

I won't take the attitude that just because I can't stop something, I won't do anything about it...if that were true, I'd resign today. I just do the best I can and try to do something worthwhile in this world.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again, expecting a different result. The politicians of this state, and by extension the citizens because they keep electing these moron defense lawyers to public office, have made it clear they think drunk driving is a joke. Who am I to argue with them?

After nearly 20 years of banging my head against the wall, I decided to simplify my life and take the path of least resistance. The politicians, the public, and the courts want to make drunk driving the easiest crime to beat in court, provided you have the funds to hire the right attorney.

Well, good luck to them, because I surrendered a long time ago. I'm not going to screw a working stiff for having a few beers after work because he can't afford the right lawyer and therefore will get it jammed up his ass, while some Harvard M.B.A. arrested for the same thing gets off scot-free because he greased the right palms.

BTW...this isn't just me. A couple of years ago, I actually led my department for OUI's for the year with a whopping 5 arrests. All of them except one involved accidents where I was backed into a corner and had no other alternative. The one exception was a 5th offense, for which I have no sympathy.

Posted by: sempergumby

I took an oath when I became a Police Officer. I can not control the courts. I am not a court officer I am a Police Officer. If you do not do your job because the courts suck, shame on you. I take drunks ( and others ) off the street because it is the right thing to do, and that is why I chose this profession and why it chose me also. Every stop is different and requires different levels of Officer discretion and judgment. But I will be dammed if I will let political ideals and gripes interfere with my mission or objectives.
Stay safe brothers because in the end all we have is US.

Posted by: THE RP

Nobody is talking about forgetting their oath. Nobody is talking about not doing their job. It's not about making excuses to not do the job. It comes down to being realistic. In an ideal world you would not let the courts affect your decision making but in many places you have to make the decison on how your time would be best spent. I know that I can be more effective, where I work, addressing other problems on the street. For many of us OUIs are a huge pinch. Thats great and they maybe are, but unfortunately an OUI for me takes me off the road, usually at peak times, where my presence on the street can be preventing numerous other problems like fights, shootings and other quality of life issues that harm the peace and dignity of the good people on my route. I have to make that decision because thats how it works and the embarrassing district courts in this state factor into the decision making process. Not just with OUis but with other things also. It's very complicated but it's just the way it is. If you think I should grab a couple of citizens a night for having a couple of beers after work as opposed to clearing my corners of thugs and making life miserable for the true bad guys then you don't understand the big picture that many of us are faced with...

The discussion that this has turned into is very complicated because it comes down to where and when you work. Delta obviously has the experience and works in an enviroment where his time is better spent and he explains it perfectly well and why that is...It is not black and white and many things come into play. So before anyone gets too outraged or high and mighty about oaths and statistics ask yourself if you truely understand the shoes that some of walk in and what we have to take into consideration on a daily basis.

Posted by: sempergumby

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE RP

Nobody is talking about forgetting their oath. Nobody is talking about not doing their job. It's not about making excuses to not do the job. It comes down to being realistic. In an ideal world you would not let the courts affect your decision making but in many places you have to make the decison on how your time would be best spent. I know that I can be more effective, where I work, addressing other problems on the street. For many of us OUIs are a huge pinch. Thats great and they maybe are, but unfortunately an OUI for me takes me off the road, usually at peak times, where my presence on the street can be preventing numerous other problems like fights, shootings and other quality of life issues that harm the peace and dignity of the good people on my route. I have to make that decision because thats how it works and the embarrassing district courts in this state factor into the decision making process. Not just with OUis but with other things also. It's very complicated but it's just the way it is. If you think I should grab a couple of citizens a night for having a couple of beers after work as opposed to clearing my corners of thugs and making life miserable for the true bad guys then you don't understand the big picture that many of us are faced with...

The discussion that this has turned into is very complicated because it comes down to where and when you work. Delta obviously has the experience and works in an enviroment where his time is better spent and he explains it perfectly well and why that is...It is not black and white and many things come into play. So before anyone gets too outraged or high and mighty about oaths and statistics ask yourself if you truely understand the shoes that some of walk in and what we have to take into consideration on a daily basis.

Point noted and well put. Thank you.

Posted by: Killjoy

Well..its called discretion, and its one of our best tools. If a cop tosses a joint, pours out a beer, or gives some guy a break that's their decision. Just don't paint a turd yellow and expect me to call it gold.

Quote:

The one exception was a 5th offense, for which I have no sympathy.

How do they get to 5th offense if the cops cut him loose all the time? I arrest so I can get them to OUI 2,3,4,5, etc.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

How do they get to 5th offense if the cops cut him loose all the time?

Because there's guys like you out there.

Posted by: MM1799

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE RP

The discussion that this has turned into is very complicated because it comes down to where and when you work.

I couldn't agree more.

You can ask 10 different cops their opinion on OUI enforcement and you'll get 10 different answers. A local cop, who works in a high-crime city, would rank it low on the priority whereas a Trooper, who primarily works the highway, would rank it very high.

I wouldn't call anything that mitigates a dangerous situation (which an OUI is) a "total waste of time and effort". Whether you put a lot of emphasis on it or not, the numbers of people killed because of drunk idiots says that OUI crackdown is an important function. The fact the numbers aren't higher than they already are indicates that the general public benefit from increased OUI arrests.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by MM1799

You can ask 10 different cops their opinion on OUI enforcement and you'll get 10 different answers. A local cop, who works in a high-crime city, would rank it low on the priority whereas a Trooper, who primarily works the highway, would rank it very high.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MM1799

I wouldn't call anything that mitigates a dangerous situation (which an OUI is) a "total waste of time and effort". Whether you put a lot of emphasis on it or not, the numbers of people killed because of drunk idiots says that OUI crackdown is an important function. The fact the numbers aren't higher than they already are indicates that the general public benefit from increased OUI arrests.

I think that depends on your definition of "mitigation".

To me, if a drunk driver is removed from the road and kept in custody until he/she sobers-up, then the situation is mitigated. With my informal policy of a PC and a tow, the drunk cannot possibly hurt anyone, because he/she is sitting in a jail cell for 4-12 hours while an OUI suspect can be (and usually is) bailed before I even sit down to write the report. Still drunk, and completely free to get into another car and drive away.

More importantly, a PC report takes me about 10 minutes at the most. An OUI report is a 2-3 hour ordeal where I have to jump through more hoops than a trained poodle. In the meantime, the other cops in my area are eating my radio calls, which I positively can't stand. I'm HUGE on sector integrity, and I really get upset if another cop gets stuck with a call in my sector while I'm tied-up with bullshit like.....an OUI arrest.

I don't want to reignite the whole state/county/local/campus debate, but I wouldn't be the least bit disappointed if the state either reformed the RMV Police, sufficiently staffed them, and turned them loose to solely enforce traffic laws, or they doubled the size of the state police and tasked them with the same thing.

I hardly work in the South Bronx or East LA, but I mostly don't have the time to concentrate on traffic enforcement, especially OUI's. As a result, I don't have nearly the expertise to stand-up in court; any two-bit lawyer could tear me apart on almost any traffic issue, and I'm honest enough to admit it.

If the state adopted my recommendation, they'd not only make my life easier, but also make an absolute fortune in civil infractions. I was interviewed for the RMV Police back in 1989, and the person who interviewed me told me that they (RMV PD) actually turned a profit for the state.

Knowing what pricks the RMV cops were, I tend to believe that.

Posted by: adroitcuffs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again, expecting a different result. The politicians of this state, and by extension the citizens because they keep electing these moron defense lawyers to public office, have made it clear they think drunk driving is a joke. Who am I to argue with them?

After nearly 20 years of banging my head against the wall, I decided to simplify my life and take the path of least resistance. The politicians, the public, and the courts want to make drunk driving the easiest crime to beat in court, provided you have the funds to hire the right attorney.

Well, good luck to them, because I surrendered a long time ago. I'm not going to screw a working stiff for having a few beers after work because he can't afford the right lawyer and therefore will get it jammed up his ass, while some Harvard M.B.A. arrested for the same thing gets off scot-free because he greased the right palms.

I am amazed at so many of the comments I'm reading. Yes, I too, am highly frustrated at the lack of significant legal consequences for many crimes, including OUI. Yes, I hate to see someone who can afford the fancy attorney (hello, Mr. Kennedy?) get off because he could "afford" to. But when I arrest someone, I don't give a rodent's gluteus how much money he or she has in the bank, or who they know. I have always despised OUI drivers and am glad to take as many as I can off the road. I am not "screwing a working stiff for having a few beers after work". The person who chooses to drive under the influence is putting my life and the lives of others at risk. My arrest may not make a person change their ways, but it gets them off the road that night, and it just might make them think twice the next time they consider "having a few".

Wayne Smith was a "working stiff", and gave of his time to be a volunteer firefighter. He was a husband, a father, a brother, and a friend. I never met Wayne Smith, never knew his name until November 5th, 2005. At 0042 hours that morning, my life (and the lives of many others) would be changed forever because of the choices made by Wayne Smith. You think an OUI arrest is a waste of time? How many times did Wayne Smith get stopped and let go because he was a volunteer firefighter or because someone thought it would be a "bullshit" arrest? If you don't think you have the time to deal with an OUI arrest, think about those of us who no longer "have the time" with the one we love. Lt. Bob Cabral no longer "has the time" to spend with his sons. Sorry if that arrest report took you 2 to 3 hours to write. Try to remember that death is far more "inconvenient". Ultimately, the responsibility rests with the person who gets behind the wheel. God bless those who see the value in apprehending someone who puts the rest of our lives at risk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

I won't take the attitude that just because I can't stop something, I won't do anything about it...if that were true, I'd resign today. I just do the best I can and try to do something worthwhile in this world.

Killjoy, thank you for your dedication.We can't change everyone or everything, but we can do our best to make at least a small difference.

As to the topic of the article that started this thread, I have been in many a debate with my peers about "professional courtesy" when it comes to OUI. I find it abhorrent that any police officer anywhere would put his brother and sister officers in that position. Even before I got on the job, I never got behind the wheel while under the influence. As an officer, I would not hesitate to arrest anyone for OUI. You have every right to drink when you're off-duty. Just make sure you have a non-drinker as your driver, or call a cab. Don't put us in the position of arresting a brother or sister, or worse...

Posted by: Sniper

Delta is correct, you guys have NO IDEA what QDC is like.......... And THAT is about all I can/will say in a public forum.......

Posted by: kwflatbed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper

Delta is correct, you guys have NO IDEA what QDC is like.......... And THAT is about all I can/will say in a public forum.......

I will say it ! QDC is the perfect example of the good old boy club in action.

It has always been that way and will never change,I have been fined more than once
for contempt of court in QDC for speaking my piece to a judge to have the charge
laughted about and thrown out of court in Dedham.

Old "Gravel Gurdy" had me locked up for running her up and down the flag pole
a couple of times.

This was forty years ago so you can see things don't change in QDC.

Posted by: pahapoika

Knowing what pricks the RMV cops were, I tend to believe that.

nothing struck more fear in a motorist than that white cruiser sitting in a rotary

</IMG>

Posted by: sdb29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper

Delta is correct, you guys have NO IDEA what QDC is like.......... And THAT is about all I can/will say in a public forum.......

Well, I'm glad to see it's not just a thing down here. The New Bedford District Court features the same kinds of shenanigans.

But who was the Supreme Court Justice that said something like "He who walks into a courthouse expecting justice to be dispensed will be sadly dissapointed."

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by adroitcuffs

My arrest may not make a person change their ways, but it gets them off the road that night, and it just might make them think twice the next time they consider "having a few".

You apparently didn't read my posts. When someone is placed in protective custody in Massachusetts, they're held in a jail cell for 4-12 hours, which is a HELL of a lot more time than they're going to get from the courts.

I make no apologies for not arresting every OUI I come across. In Massachusetts, and especially in QDC, it accomplishes NOTHING. I can think of much better ways to serve my patrol area than to be off the street for 2-3 hours writing reports for a case that's going to be bagged anyway.

Posted by: Robert35

Quote:

Originally Posted by sempergumby

Point noted and well put. Thank you.

Good one

Posted by: THE RP

I too admire Killjoy's dedication...Good police work is good police work. God knows there's plenty of it out there to be had.. What I am amazed at is the fact that many of my brother and sisters can accuse me or others of being neglectful in our duties (Because thats what you are doing) when they have never worked my streets or faced the challenges I specifically have every time I go on shift...Delta's explanations and points are totally legitimate and if you think otherwise you choose to exist in the same world the "DUI guy" lives in of black and white. Thats not the world we exist in. Not on any call, at any time, on any car stop, on any field encounter etc...If you have that luxury then good for you but I don't and all of the previously mentioned points by Delta, myself and others, whether you like it or not, come into play.

I am also amazed at the fact that anyone in this business can discount very articulate reasoning by very qualified and expierienced colleagues and then feign disgust or contempt at them. That to me wreaks of ignorance and insecurity...

Adroitcuffs. To use specific tragedy when speaking to me or others here is abhorrent. I, like you, have seen and expierienced unbelievable tragedy both professionally and personally. I mourn any persons tragic death especially a police officer and I grieve for your loss. I strive to prevent tragedy every friggin time I go to work but I have to do it different than you, thats all. If that means I put OUI's lower on my list of importance than other things for my own reasons, than so be it. Maybe one of the people on my route won't get robbed, won't catch a stray, won't have their worldly belongings taken from their home, won't get their head caved in by their loving spouse.. Or maybe I'll be there faster when one of my brother or sisters is rolling around on the ground with a shitbag pulling on their holster...How about that, ever seen that? Kind of exhilerating, if you haven't....You might not agree with me but the least you could do is climb off of the high horse that you and the "DUI guy" are riding and respect me and others you don't agree with. I respect how you feel but you don't ride with me at night, nor have you ever, so the least you could do is concede that.

As far as your willingness to arrest another cop for OUI. So be it.
I look at it differently and with obvious limits because we all know there is obvious limits to the discussion of any type of courtesy. That person is a special person to me. They do something very special for this world, like me and you. They do things and see things that are beyond description and they chose, swore and dedicate themsleves to what is one of the last noble professions. It's more than them just being another cop. And I know this, that person, by their choosing, oath and acceptance of tradition would risk their life for me or any other stranger as I would for them regardless of where, when or how. So if I get them a cab or otherwise I do it with total clarity and with no regrets because I owe them that much. They did not put me in a bad spot. I chose to be in this spot...How many assholes on the street have you given breaks to but you wouldn't give another cop the same?...Thats too bad but at least you are willing to say it. I respect that. I respect you saying it..not the idea.

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

I strive to prevent tragedy every friggin time I go to work but I have to do it different than you, thats all. If that means I put OUI's lower on my list of importance than other things for my own reasons, than so be it. Maybe one of the people on my route won't get robbed, won't catch a stray, won't have their worldly belongings taken from their home, won't get their head caved in by their loving spouse.. Or maybe I'll be there faster when one of my brother or sisters is rolling around on the ground with a shitbag pulling on their holster...How about that, ever seen that?

Of course that means you are tossing out the crime you have in hand for the potential crime that may occur. I'll take the cards I'm dealt and lock up a drunk driver and charge them with the correct crime to enter them in the OUI lottery. You can throw out every fish hoping catch the bigger one, but eventually you'll just go hungry.

Posted by: MM1799

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

I think that depends on your definition of "mitigation".

Fair enough. Whether you are making the arrest or just PC and a tow, you are taking a drunk driver off the road. Again, as I previously stated, personal policy and attitudes will vary between different departments.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or criticize their methods, but I can't find fault in someone who chooses to arrest an OUI (I being one of them). It seems to me that some of you are actually faulting an officer for making the arrest:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

...someone who never got over the initial naivety of a cop just out of the academy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE RP

"The DUI guy" what a nice thing for the resume....

When I choose not to give the working joe a break, I am not trying to break some record or think that everyone I arrest is going to jail (Lowell District is a joke). I choose not to give them sympathy because of the sheer amount of accidents involving OUIs (again, where I work) and I despise their attitude that their life is somehow more important than everyone else's therefore they can risk driving impaired.

THE RP;
I respect your opinions. I also see you were offended when some criticized your opinion and methods. However, in the same breath you write "the DUI guy... who lives in black and white." Are you not criticizing a hard working officer who chooses to put emphasis on something different than you? I don't want to start an argument and have no problem with you but I find that odd. Please see the paragraph before for my opinions on the "DUI guy".

I'll finish my post with your own comment: "Good police work is good police work." Agreed. If every cop put the same emphasis on the same thing, we'd do a hell of a job cracking down on one thing while something else becomes a problem. It's a never ending struggle no matter where you work or what you do. Good luck and stay safe.

Posted by: 209

I had a guy who refused FST and the BT....So what if the case gets dismissed because of his refusal. I do a complete a very detailed report and do my best. Think about it this way. It cost him the tow fee, license suspension, and later license re-enstatement fee, bail fee, day(s) pay for court appearances, bus/taxi fare, lawyer fee, etc.. The person NEVER wins on an OUI they ALWAYS pay the piper one way or another. The main point is you get the drunk off the road to ensure the safety of other drivers, pedestrians, property, other Officers, and the suspect. END OF STORY.

Posted by: adroitcuffs

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE RP

I am also amazed at the fact that anyone in this business can discount very articulate reasoning by very qualified and expierienced colleagues and then feign disgust or contempt at them. That to me wreaks of ignorance and insecurity...

Adroitcuffs. To use specific tragedy when speaking to me or others here is abhorrent. I, like you, have seen and expierienced unbelievable tragedy both professionally and personally. I mourn any persons tragic death especially a police officer and I grieve for your loss. I strive to prevent tragedy every friggin time I go to work but I have to do it different than you, thats all. If that means I put OUI's lower on my list of importance than other things for my own reasons, than so be it. Maybe one of the people on my route won't get robbed, won't catch a stray, won't have their worldly belongings taken from their home, won't get their head caved in by their loving spouse.. Or maybe I'll be there faster when one of my brother or sisters is rolling around on the ground with a shitbag pulling on their holster...How about that, ever seen that? Kind of exhilerating, if you haven't....You might not agree with me but the least you could do is climb off of the high horse that you and the "DUI guy" are riding and respect me and others you don't agree with. I respect how you feel but you don't ride with me at night, nor have you ever, so the least you could do is concede that.

RP, I am not on a high horse. In my 19 years on the job, I (like many here) have seen plenty. Yes, I have been in the shi*t, rolled around, etc., but this really isn't about who has done or seen more. Everyone has a story to tell and I'm not claiming to be better than anyone else. How interesting that you accuse my point of view as wreaking of ignorance and insecurity. I am also an experienced and qualified individual.

As to relating a very personal experience, it's unfortunate that you find it so abhorrent. I'm not "feigning disgust or contempt" at brother and sister officers. My passion for my chosen career is very real and I do respect my colleagues, even if I don't agree with their views. I have always felt that persons who drive under the influence should be apprehended, hopefully before they hurt or kill anyone. Losing Bob was not the catalyst for my view on OUI, but it naturally reinforced my views. His case is one of many out there across the nation, but also a situation familiar and recent to those on this forum, therefore, a more clear illustration of my point.

It is also a tragedy when someone is a victim of domestic violence, child abuse, theft, etc., but the fact is we can't be everywhere at the same time. I don't spend my entire shift looking for OUI drivers, but I don't let them go when I get one. As a patrol officer, I apprehend all types of suspects, take all types of reports, and hopefully prevent some crimes along the way. If one of my fellow officers needs me while I'm "stuck on paper", I can put that paperwork down and get to where I need to be, and I have done so. Of course, the reality is that I might be unable to respond when the fecal matter hits the rotary oscillator. It doesn't happen very often, but it's a real possibility. I've also felt the anger of dealing with a lying victim, being stuck a the hospital with the liar who stuck to the story, while another person was truly being victimized. I would much rather have been the one who drove up that street and prevented or mitigated the situation, than to have seen the bloody victim come walking up to the station door. It is the people we deal with, the reality that is.

In the end, perhaps instead of telling me to "get off my high horse", you could simply agree to disagree.

Posted by: adroitcuffs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

Amen! Well said!!

Posted by: THE RP

Adroit I definitely agree to disagree. It's not personal and like I have said all along if thats how you or anyone else wants to operate and can succesfully operate then great. If you can do it thats excellent. That was my point all along and I explained my reasons why and how unfortunatley I have to do things differently than others. That was the discussion. You found yourself amazed. That was amazing to me. That an obviously expierienced cop would be amazed that others, in other places have to operate differently and look at things differently than you for a plethora of reasons..Thats right I used plethora..Nobody said they were letting anyone go... I handle things, when I can the most efficient way I can. It's different for me than it is for you. How is that amazing? How is a guy like Delta's view amazing?

Killjoy's parable phrases it very nicely and like I said I admire his dedication but where I work, I'll never go hungry. I don't have to worry about that. I'm not waiting for the bigger fish. They are there and I am not afraid of going after them. Maybe if I worked the highway I would have to wait longer...Different gig thats all...OUI fish in barrel, good stats based on good police work. Thats cool. Tossing out the crime in hand? Convenient claim to support your philosophy but a little overstated.. The points were that for many reasons priorities have to be set by some of us and many factors come into play. If I played the crime in hand game I wouldn't get two blocks away from my station every time I drove out of the driveway.

MM1799 I definitely critcized the "DUI guy" because he has a position where he has a forum to editorialize with a very wide brush, which he did. My point all along is some of us don't have that luxury and that doesn't mean he's right and his published collection of words may not be quite the total picture.

And nobody here ever found fault with anyone for making an OUI arrest. That was never said by anyone. Opinions were shared and I for one applaud anybody who makes a good pinch at any time for any thing.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwflatbed

When I first got on the QPD, the real old-timers told me about Judge Chimelinski (sp?) who called every car thief a "joyrider" and would let them off with the proverbial slap on the wrist.

That is, until some cops (all now dead or retired) stole the judge's pride & joy Cadillac convertible one night, took it up to the quarries and burned it. After that, car thiefs in QDC were practically tarred & feathered.

Posted by: kwflatbed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

Yup Bruce, Chimelinski & Halloren (sp) were quite the pair in their day at QDC.
You knew the outcome of 99% of the cases before they went before the bench.

Posted by: kwflatbed

Another Article On The Subject

I Bet I Could Drink You Under the Table!

This is not a plus, ladies--this is a red flag!

SGT. SUSAN GRANT
Women in Policing Contributor
Officer.com

A mental health organization in the UK reports that in male dominated occupations there exists a heavier drinking culture. They listed middle-ranking civil servants, bar staff and armed forces personnel as groups that would have a higher than normal risk of alcohol related problems for men. It is not a far leap then, that women in male-dominated civil servant militaristic jobs, such as policing, would have a significant chance of fitting into this same category. This drinking culture, coupled with the stress of policing, can be a cocktail of disaster in the lives of our police officers today.
We've all experienced the after-shift "choir practices" at our local pub or police club. When shift change is over, we head out to the local establishment to "debrief" the day's or evening's events and wind down a little. Our police service works two 12-hour day shifts with a 24 hour break, and then two 12-hour night shifts, followed by four days off. The most common day to have a night out was what we called long change--after our second day shift. Some organizations have crazy hours, where officers get off shift at 11 or 12 p.m. and really have only a sleeping family to go home to, so they hit the nearest bar for a drink to relax.
Interestingly, the same study in the UK indicated that for men, driving instructors and taxi drivers were among the groups of men least likely to have alcohol-related problems. For women, it was educational assistants, primary and nursery teachers and childcare workers. That, coming from cities and towns that have a pub on almost every corner!
Knowing that we are in a stressful profession that has a stronger historical drinking culture, we should recognize the additional risk drinking can be on our lives and professions. One only has to look in your own local newspaper to see police officers arrested by their own members for DUI, to recognize that we could have potential problems if things do not change.

Full Article: http://www.officer.com/online/articl...on=17&id=37671

Posted by: Inspector

Substance abuse is a major problem among law enforcement officers of both sexes. I am surprised the survey hasn't picked up the medical profession, nurses etc as another one near the top of that list. Hours, accessability, job tension are major reasons for this problem in the professions. The NYPD's dry out farm, officer assistance programs etc are all resources which are muchly needed.

Posted by: Pyle, G

If I remember way back on page 1, this is about drunken cops behind the wheel.

I have been rolling around on the ground in more than one occassion with a bad guy being watched by civilians trying to see if the cop gets his butt kicked. Guess who was the only one that stops (while driving by) and helps. The off duty guy with his family in the car.

So if I allow a little professional courtesy once in a while, it is because I know when the chips are down, I only have a few friends out there.

Posted by: mpd61

I have to agree with Delta and Killjoy. They are both taking documented L.E. action and removing the immediate threat from the road. Who gives a rats ass about the philosophical differences? Sound more like the Coke v. Pepsi war.

I only had two (2) opportunities for OUI in my entire career and had to settle for P.C. because the operation issue was sketchy. Still did my job and kept them off the road though...

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