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Main Page A firearm with a mechnical safety is inherently unsafe
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: SOT

I assert that the addition of more and more mechanical safeties, "indicators", disconnects, and decockers makes a handgun less safe.

My reasoning:
1. All mechanical safeties can fail.
2. If you follow the three main NRA rules and the "golden rule" of firearms, you will never have a problem.
3. That these "safeties" tend to promote a casual attitude whereby people slowly learn to "rely" on the mechanical safety over safe gun handling.
4. There might be an argument made for a magazine disconnect for LE...but then again..might it not promote a more casual attitude towards weapon retention?
(I'll let him have my non operable primary and I'll go for my BUG)
5. The smartest thing in the arsenal of MA laws is the MA safety class and in reality it should be MANDATORY upon renewal of you license (next to safety,the next biggest part of the MA class is the legal aspects of firearm ownership).
6. Once a person gets a license, they should be able to purchase any gun they want.

I have crafted this list to "foster a" debate so lets talk...

Posted by: Joe B

I agree with your logic, however I will take one exception to that rule. A 1911 style handgun typically has three safeties - an internal "drop" safety, a slide safety, and a grip safety. I believe a good 1911 in the hands of someone who is familiar with it, is one of the safest handguns on the market.

Posted by: USMCMP5811

Teddy Kenedy has killed more people with his car than I have with my gun.

Posted by: Dan H

I have a real peave with this loaded chamber indicator requirement. Everyone needs a firearms safety class to get a license, you need a license to buy the gun, so by the time you by a gun you should already know how to check if a gun is hot..... and know that you check
whenever you are unsure. If the action is closed assume that it is loaded until you check, everyone is taught that.
I think the AG could definately find other areas where his attention could be more useful.

Posted by: Mikey682

Thats why I like my glock.

Posted by: USMCMP5811

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan H @ Tue Dec 07, 10:59

I have a real peave with this loaded chamber indicator requirement. Everyone needs a firearms safety class to get a license, you need a license to buy the gun, so by the time you by a gun you should already know how to check if a gun is hot..... and know that you check
whenever you are unsure. If the action is closed assume that it is loaded until you check, everyone is taught that.
I think the AG could definately find other areas where his attention could be more useful.

Dan.

Well put

1) Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
2) never point a weapon at anything you don't intend to destroy.
3) Keep the weapon on safe untill you are ready to fire.
4) Keep your finger off the trigger ntil you are ready to fire.

I think this is self explanatary. Nothing hard, no need to exagerate anymore. If you cant understand this, you have no business being aywhere near a firearm.

Just my $0.02

Posted by: TheFuzz357

Its not the "safety" that makes the weapon safer. It's the knowledge and training of the person in possession of the weapon that makes it safer!

Posted by: cj3441

I agree with there being no replacement for proper/safe handling. Unfortunately the state of Massachusetss Lawmakers who do not know the first things about firearms pass all of this feel good legislation to make the rest of the bleeding heart anti-gun liberals feel good, but every time there is a shooting the news conveniently never states if the indivdual had a license to carry or not.

Posted by: USMCMP5811

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj3441 @ Tue Dec 07, 17:01

I agree with there being no replacement for proper/safe handling. Unfortunately the state of Massachusetss Lawmakers who do not know the first things about firearms pass all of this feel good legislation to make the rest of the bleeding heart anti-gun liberals feel good, but every time there is a shooting the news conveniently never states if the indivdual had a license to carry or not.

Exactly, these are the same individuals that have you believe a time out in the corner will work for all occasions for a miss behaving child or teen......... UGGGGHHHHHHH

Posted by: mpd61

The primary "safety device" is standard equipment on all humans;

MUZZLE CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Use it, practice with it, talk about it, it is more important than contraception!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: mef245

The real unsafe trend of the future is "personalization"
There have been various schemes to put in some sort of built-in devices so that a handgun will only shoot for a specific person.
One or more states (poss NJ and/or MD IIRC ) have legislation that by year X that all new guns sold must have this technology built in.
It does not bode well that in Mass the AG uses the power of his office to regulate a properly performing product into almost nonexistence by adding a bunch of extra requirements under "consumer protection"
Right now private citizen cannot buy a new handgun other than S&W and specially modified sigs, unless made prior to 10/21/98. If it was made prior to then, it also had to be demonstrably in-state prior to that date unless it's on yet another list.
While LEO's are exempt from these requirements, sooner or later some smart lawyer is going to sue over a police shooting with a "non-compliant" gun.
Remember we're not talking about next week here, but down the line you could see savvy higher-ups forcing PD's to get "mass compliant" guns and it would suck if some future standard included this personalization crap, which is very possible.
By the way, our mayor picked our mass-compliant gun (armorers wanted Glocks) a S&W .40, over our objections.

The uneducated typically jump all over the idea until you explain....
if it's fingerprint reader, what if you're wearing gloves, what if your prints are fouled by dirty or bloody hands? What if you have to shoot with your off hand due to injury?
If the battery dies, would the lockout default to allowing weapon to function, rather than being locked? (in that case, it's useless anyway - all a thief or criminal would need to do is take the batteries out) If it's RFID tag, you'd better not forget your bracelet (or two - one on each hand....always that off hand possibility) or hope you don't lose it in a struggle, or stand near microwave at a domestic etc etc....
This is all over and above the fact that you're talking about sophisticated micro-sized electronics and mechanics built within an extremely confined and already cluttered area, subject to rain, extreme heat, shock, concussion, vaporizing gunpowder, oils, carbon fouling etc etc....the possibilities of your weapon not firing at the wrong moment are endless.

Any attempt to add on-board personalization technology to a gun carried for defense (all police firearms) is a terrible idea and will cost lives.
A couple of years ago, Colt had this type of system installed on a gun and called a press conference to demonstrate it....and the gun wouldn't fire. Heh heh.

Posted by: TripleSeven

I would never buy a gun with a mech. safety... your brain should be the only safety you need.

Posted by: USMCMP5811

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMcNeice

I would never buy a gun with a mech. safety... your brain should be the only safety you need.

Hell, my finger is the safety.

Posted by: Sgt.berniedo

I carry the S&W 40P, no safety of any kind, but it is DA only. No hammer and like a 40 lb. trigger pull. I can keep the tip of my trigger finger behind the trigger as a sort of safety until ready to fire. So, my finger is the safety also.

Posted by: nineone

FOT, finger off the trigger should be enough

Posted by: Se7en

from Black Hawk Down

Steele: Sergeant, what's the meaning of this?
Thinking he's talking about the unauthorized pig picking
"Hoot": Just a little aerial target practice, sir. Didn't want to leave 'em behind.
Steele: I'm talking about your weapon, soldier. Now Delta or no-Delta, that's still a hot weapon. Your safety should be on at all times.
"Hoot": This is my safety, sir.
He holds up his index finger and bends motions as if squeezing a trigger and then walks off
Sanderson: Let it alone, sir. He hasn't eaten in a few days.

Thats my motto.

Posted by: dcs2244

Too right se7en! But the safety is vital for the 1911...and really, why carry anything else (I know...your department's issue...I'm talking off-duty)?? They are single action, and who can argue with a "flying ashtray", especially a Black Talon ashtray! For those of you with Sig's, just remember to "de-cock" the 1911 before you shoot. "De-cock and Rock"

Here is my prediction: before I retire, the MSP will be fielding 0.45 autos.

Now, for those of you who are 9mm and 0.40 S&W fans: my ex carries a 0.45 cal Colt 70 series National Match Gold Cup: wicked modified. Glock 0.40 back-up. One extra mag for the Glock and three for the Colt. Promise: she'll put two rounds through your left eye before you know it's time to draw. Period.

And yes, if I were in the "jackpot" I'd want her to back me up, no question. SOT, you should see her with an MP-5: whether she is using it or taking it away from some flop!

Did I mention that she's not a "victim"?

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