MassCops - Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network, A Mass Police Web Portal

Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network

Massachusetts Police News, Information and Discussions on MassCops

Pages: 1

Main Page Pensions
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: kttref

Currently, in CT anyway, a lot of PD's are losing pensions...or at least their town/city governments are attempting to take them away.

Does anyone see this happening in their respective communities? We've been told that our town will most likely attempt to take away pensions for new hires during our next contract negotiations in 3 years. My husband's department is preparing for the same fight in 2 years. In fact, his town has already taken away pensions for town employee's, making it the sole responsibility of the employee and a 401(k).

We save like it's our job anyway, taking full advantage of our 457(b) retirement plans, but I think this is an interesting topic...

Posted by: pahapoika

looks like the cities and towns are taking a page from the private industry play book by eliminating pensions.

most , if not all the utility companies like the phone , gas and electric here in Mass. now offer only 401K's instead of a pension.

the pension is the big selling point for me with the prison job. they can't fill the vacancies now , wonder what they'll do when they take away the benefits , hire mexicans ?

Posted by: mikemac64

Most utilities still pensions for the line workers. Verizon workers have told me their management does not have a pension system anymore.

Remember, here in Mass. our systems are guided by state law (PERAC Public Employee Retirement Administration Commission exercises general supervision of the System), not by the towns we work in. Your town or city may have it's own retirement system, but it falls under state law. In other states it may be easier to jettison the systems if they are run locally under local law.

I also believe there is case law which has deemed the pension a contract. For the Mass. legislature to attempt this they would have to go against every public employee, like their wives, kids, grandma, etc, who they have on the payroll. Would be a tough Thanksgiving dinner.

Posted by: kttref

I didn't realize that in MA it was governed by law. Here in CT it's every town/city for themselves...

Posted by: screamineagle

I thought in mass some fell under county retirement?

Posted by: mikemac64

Quote:

Originally Posted by screamineagle

I thought in mass some fell under county retirement?

Some do. My town belongs to the Norfolk County Retirement System. Other towns/cities such as Brookline, Boston, and others have their own retirement systems. The state is also a seperate system as are the many authorities and commissions. However, they all fall under and adhere to the same guidelines set forth by the legislature in Chpt 32 and adminstered by PERAC.

Group 4 in Brookline is the same as group 4 in Millville even though Millville may belong to the Worcester County Retirement System. All of us contribute the same each week, and all of us fall under the same rules for regular and disability retirement. The pensions we receive now or in the future are adminstered by the 106 different retirement boards statewide (see the list here http://www.mass.gov/perac/dirs/boardprofile.htm ).

It really makes no sense for all of these boards to exist. I concur with the recent proposals to wrap them all up under one retirment board. The fees the investments professionals charge each board are huge, not to mention all of the salaries and other costs associated with running all of these seperate retirement system. That right there would save hundreds of millions of dollars each year. All of which would remain in the pension system as investment gains instead of fees paid to advisors.

It has also been reported some boards like to take junkets to "conferences" sponsored by investment company's looking to do business. Shocking I know.

It's your money, get involved.

Posted by: pahapoika

i thought the electric utility company on the south shore had stopped pensions for new hires after 1996 ( at least that's what one of the linemen told me )

Posted by: mikemac64

Quote:

Originally Posted by pahapoika

i thought the electric utility company on the south shore had stopped pensions for new hires after 1996 ( at least that's what one of the linemen told me )

I think I answered that MOST utilities still cover their union members pensions. Verizon, National Grid, Nstar all have pensions for their union folks.

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

They are still covered under pensions but I spoke to a Verizon guy the other day that there are new federal regulations on pensions due to the Enron scandal where the feds set the rates of return which is much lower than they are getting but safe, so the pensions will diminish alot for them.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemac64

It really makes no sense for all of these boards to exist. I concur with the recent proposals to wrap them all up under one retirment board.

I disagree....if a town/city is large enough to have their own retirement system, the state shouldn't start messing with it. I like the fact I can pick-up the phone and speak with someone who sits on the board of directors and call them by their first name, without getting the runaround that "Mister So-and-So will get back to you".

When one of our officers was killed off-duty last year, getting pension benefits for his widow was a relatively quick, painless process because we knew everyone on the retirement board. I have the feeling that wouldn't have been the case if it was one giant, monolithic retirement system.

About getting rid of public safety pensions....I knew when I raised my right hand that I was entering a dangerous profession, not only from the job itself but also my life expectancy was going to suffer after I retired. One of the huge things that attracted me to the jon anyway was the generous pension, which will probably be mostly collected by my wife anyway.

Posted by: pahapoika

I think I answered that MOST utilities still cover their union members pensions. Verizon, National Grid, Nstar all have pensions for their union folks.

sorry , wasn't trying to spit hairs , just read some articles recently about companies getting away from pension plans. usually takes about 10 years for the nonsense in the private sector to hit government jobs. heard my friend's wife going on about her companies "mission statement" and low and behold we had one bolted to the roll call room wall some years later.

One of the huge things that attracted me to the jon anyway was the generous pension, which will probably be mostly collected by my wife anyway.

think the average life expectancy after retirement is 18 months

Posted by: mikemac64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta784

I like the fact I can pick-up the phone and speak with someone who sits on the board of directors and call them by their first name, without getting the runaround that "Mister So-and-So will get back to you".

As with most issues, I agree with you in principle. My point is these systems are rife with waste and duplication of effort, I am sure these are some of the same things that drives you nuts at QPD. The amount of money going to fees and other expenses are astronomical, I've read upwards of $200,000,000.00 a year between the 106 systems. That's real money. OUR MONEY!!

As far as taking away pensions: I don't see it for those of us in the system. I do see someone attempting to enact the Kerry Healy plan where new public employees will not get a pension, with the exception police/firefighters/corrections.

I do recommend you load up on ou 457 plan if you can. The contributions hurt in the beginning, but after you never know it's gone.

Posted by: midwatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemac64

I do recommend you load up on ou 457 plan if you can. The contributions hurt in the beginning, but after you never know it's gone.

I've been trying to tell my guys this for years. Yeah, at first is kind of sucks, but you get used to it. Plus your salary eventually increases, helping to offset any "loss" in takehome.

Posted by: kttref

But if you start it up right away (within the first 1 or 2 paychecks) you never know it's gone. And any time you get a raise you should try to raise your 457...at least that's how I was raised and how I do it...It's like free money in the end (because you don't miss it upfront anymore).

Posted by: mikemac64

Quote:

Originally Posted by kttref

But if you start it up right away (within the first 1 or 2 paychecks) you never know it's gone. And any time you get a raise you should try to raise your 457...at least that's how I was raised and how I do it...It's like free money in the end (because you don't miss it upfront anymore).

There is a forumula to use where you can figure out how much you can contribute or increase your contributions without it affecting your take home pay by more than a few dollars. This is due to the pre-tax status of your contributions.

It is something like this: If you increase your weekly contribution by $25.00, the effect on your take home is only about $15.00 (approximate). Ask your plans rep for some guidance.

Regular investing adds up quick. In a blink of the eye you will have thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of dollars. This may be helpful, especially to those locals (like me) who have no intention of staying for 32 years (I will be 64 to work 32 years). I plan on hitting the road in 10-12 years (my 10 plus 4 USMC =24 to 26 years of service).

Regardless of the pension system situation, you need to start planning now. Use this link to get approximate projects on savings, etc (http://moneycentral.msn.com/Investor/calcs/n_savapp/main.asp)

Also, my wife and I read this book The Automatic Millionaire ( http://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Mill...4602514&sr=1-1 ) Most people are wired somehow, but this book lays it out very well.

PS I am a little militant about saving and investing.

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

I put $250 every 2 weeks in 457b on top of my county pension, and i don't even feel it.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemac64

Our retirement board is actually very well-run, so I'd hate to see it become collateral damage in a retirement system purge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemac64

I do recommend you load up on ou 457 plan if you can. The contributions hurt in the beginning, but after you never know it's gone.

Besides telling them the best places to eat, I consider that the most valuable non-police advice I give to newbies when I'm training them. Whenever I get a raise, I bump-up my contribution correspondingly and I never feel it. Between my pension, 457 fund, and Social Security (assuming it's still around), my retirement is pretty much set.

ma police, boston ma police, massachusetts police, massachusetts police, mass state police, mass police, ma, mass, massachusetts, massachusetts, massachutes, massachusetts law, massachusetts polece, police, officer, police officer, cops, police gear, law enforcement, police duty gear, state police, sheriff, law, police supply, police agency directory, police agency, police department, traffic officer, police dept, state trooper, dispatcher, massachusetts county sheriff, massachusetts sheriff, massachusetts department of corrections, ma doc, doc, dept of corrections, police information, civil service, ma civil service, massachusetts crime, police training, police academy, ma police academy, massachusetts officers, masscop, masscops, mpa, bpa, ibpoa, police association, massachusetts police news, massachusetts crime news, mass most wanted, police career information, police patrol, police administration, police books, crime scene training, police discussion, crime discussions, cops

About MassCops, the home for Massachusetts law enforcement.

The Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network opened in 1998 and is now a part of the New England Police Network The site is a pro-police discussion forum intended for sworn police officers and civilian law enforcement officials as well as those interested in pursuing a career in law enforcement here in Massachusetts.

The goal of The Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network is to provide an informal network of law enforcement officials here in Massachusetts for educational and informational purposes.

The forum covers many topics such as Police Related News Articles, Agency & Profession Discussions, Police Training as well as Law Enforcement Career Information.

The Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network and The New England Police Network (NEPN) and it's network sites are privately owned websites/domains and are not affiliated with or endorsed by any government association or agency.

MassCops (masscops.com) and (masscop.com) are privately owned are not affiliated with or endorsed by the Massachusetts Coalition of Police (masscop.org)

3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 49 50 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108