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Posted by: jimbo

do you see officers in your department perform oui fst's differently because they were taught differently in the various academies ?? for example, the recital of the alphabet - some officers have the person simply recite it, others have them put their heels together, feet spread at a 45 degree angle, arms by their side, head tilted back, eyes closed and then recite it (divided attention ??), the 3'rd way i've seen it done is to ask the person to start at "D" and end at "T" or some other letter. I could of sworn that the MCJTC adopted Standardized Field Sobriety Tests in 1998 with the "head back, eyes closed" version being adopted - however, guys who have graduated the academy since 1998 say no -
should we do it the same statewide ? the NHTSA has their own FST version but that includes HGN , which is not accepted in court unless an expert is summonsed to explain it - we know that won't happen often in this state -.....

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Posted by: Curious EMT

I had to recite mine "A to g and N to Z, nothing inbetween"

Funny part, i was stone-cold-sober, i was only 20 at the time and i had NEVER touched alcahol before i was 21... so it was a memorable experience, my friends will never let me live it down....

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Posted by: topcop14

The current tests that are taught are the standardized field sobriety tests from NHTSA. The HGN is allowed if an expert testifies but that is not going to happen. The HGN counts for PC when making the arrest. I only use the three NHTSA tests as in the past I was torn apart for "making up my own tests" In my personal experience it does not matter how many tests you give the drunk. Without the BT you will not get a conviction. The DAs and the judges in this state don't give a shit about OUIs. It does not matter that drinking and driving kills more them 17,000 people in the Us a year. For all you anti Gun people thats 7,600 more deaths then what was commited with firearms in a year and approximately 2000 more then all murders. Makes you wounder were our priorities are.

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Posted by: NPD S3

The three SFST'S are:

1. HGN
2. Nine step walk and turn
3. One Leg Stand

Alphabet is not a a sfst test

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Posted by: MatchStick

There are actually four (4) Standardized Field Sobriety Tests now:

1) Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus(HGN)
2) Nine step walk and turn (WAT)
3) One Leg stand (OLS)
4) Portable breath test (PBT)

The PBT is recognized as an SFST, but many PDs don't have them yet.

In addition to the four listed, many officers throw a few of their own in. It is not a good idea to throw too many in, because the attorney will ask why you did so many tests. "If it took so many tests to determine if my client was drunk, they must not have been too bad..."

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Posted by: j809

I am an SFST Instructor and yes , I have seen some whacky FSTs out there from other officers, but for the most part the newer officers have it down pretty good. I noticed that some officers give the test ok but don't understand the clues and how many you need for each test.Like any skill if you don't use it, you lose it.

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Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatchStick @ Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:38 pm The PBT is recognized as an SFST, but many PDs don't have them yet.

Any luck getting the PBT into court? No luck here.

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Posted by: MatchStick

Quote:

Any luck getting the PBT into court? No luck here.

My PD doesn't have PBTs yet; therefore, the answer is no. As you know, courts toss half of our evidence anyhow. At least it is another tool to strengthen our pre-arrest observations. PBTs are especially useful for POs that don't feel comfortable banging out SFSTs on a regular basis and are great for protective custody issues.

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Posted by: drewpopo

809 can back me up when i say "Some cops depend on the pbt" PBT is a great tool but I have seen people let someone go because they did not have a one with them and were not sure about the test's. I say if there is any doubt that they may be boarderline drunk "Hook um" There is zero liability in a making an OUI arrest it the only thing you can make a bad arrest on and not be sued over. (I like my house)

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Posted by: darkknight750il

This is my OUI format:
1 Observation of unlawful/impaired operation(weaving,speeding,etc.)
2 Observation of impairment(odor of alcoholic beverage,bloodshot eyes,slurred speach,flush face)
3 Observation of conduct while producing lic/reg(can't find lic,fumbling,etc.)
4 Ask suspect if they have consumed an alcoholic beverage. If yes, how many, if responds couple or few ask what does a few mean.
5 Request suspect to perform FST ask any medical/health issues that would affect balance/coordination. Also ask if suspect wears glasses/contacts.
6 Demonstrate FST
7 FST performance 1st HGN(note stimulus in report and number of clues observed out of a possible 6 and that 4 or more is considered a failure), 2nd Walk and turn(note line used, level surface, free of debris and no wind if true as well as number of clues observed out of a possble 8 and that 2 or more is considered a failure), 3rd One leg stand( note number of clue observed out of a possible 4 and or more is considered a failure)
8 Clink, tow and on to Intox 5000.
9 Write report quickly afterwards noting as many details as possible(helps a lot at trial months later)

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Posted by: MSP75

There is a "DA OUI Manual" that MA DA's use that is a great reference. It list the 3 NHTSA FST and what they consist of. It also descibes all the pre-trial prep and how to prosecute during trial.

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Posted by: j809

Quote:

Clink, tow and on to Intox 5000

I guess you haven't had an OUI in a while.

Quote:

There is a "DA OUI Manual" that MA DA's use that is a great reference

When I went to DRE school they gave us those manuals by the MDAA.They are great.

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Posted by: darkknight750il

yeah it has been a while

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Posted by: j809

Just kidding, there is a new BT machine out, pretty easy to use.

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Posted by: darkknight750il

I hope I got the clues right

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Posted by: dcs2244

I rely on the "posthumous" examination of the offender for BAC!

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Posted by: darkknight750il

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcs2244 @ Sat Dec 04, 02:50 I rely on the "posthumous" examination of the offender for BAC!

I'm sure that doesn't lead to many trials!

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Posted by: jimbo

just as i suspected - there is no standardized fst in this state..... we use the alphabet, 1 leg stand and 9 step, heel to toe. we have no portable breath test devices and were under the impression they were not recognized in Massachusetts. As far as HGN goes, the courts in Plymouth County do not accept it unless an expert is summonsed to explain it - i have yet to see that happen -if the NHTS criteria is what is followed in Massachusetts, then only the one leg stand and heel to toe walk are the extent of our FST....... why aren't OUI FST's standardized in this state !!!????
no wonder the defense attorneys discredit us and win about 80% of the OUI cases...

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Posted by: rreno11

JJIMBO, where are you from?
MA. has three SFST which are recognized by the courts and tought by the MSP in the MCJTC Academies.

DRDREWPPY hows Ayer doing these days?

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Posted by: Gil

Had one last night that will most likely get dropped, MSP had a cell caller report erratic operation 95 NB, vehicle described was observed exiting the highway and then pulled into a gas station. Approached the operator at the pumps and requested lic and reg, suspect became an alpha hotel and refused to cooperate at the scene. Based on the observations (unsteady on feet, slurred speech, blood shot glassy eyes and strong odor) I clinked him for the 90/24 No FST's done at the location of the stop.

Get to booking the guys is nice as pie to the LT. he asked the LT to let him take the FST's to prove he is not drunk (failed alphabet, nine step and one leg stand). Refused the BT.

What do you the the chances are that they will allow the FST's after the fact?

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Posted by: dcs2244

Contrary to the beliefs of some PO's, FST's are just that: field sobriety tests. Period. There is no reason to do them at the station as the citizen is already under arrest, BASED ON YOU'RE PREVIOUS OBSERVATIONS! Last I checked, the "book" is not the "field".

Gil, everything the citizen did is a "field sobriety test": document it in detail in your report...I know it sucks because it takes time, but do it anyway...and stuff it in his pooper!

I never relied on the BT or the PBT, and neither should any of you! Count on your ability to convince the "box of rocks" when you testify...

When in doubt, rely on HGN...if the HGN is a mess, the guy is drunk...lock him up and let the chips fall where they may!

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Posted by: Gil

Knowing the ADA's here it will get dropped, I had a guy cross my bow when he ran a stop sign and crashed into a pile of rocks, a few MPH faster on my end and I would have been that pile of rocks. ADA said because the was really no observation of operation that they were going to drop the OUI and just charge him with operating to endanger.... Whatever!

Alpha Hotel also was charged with 90/10 - 90/9 - 90/34J as well as open container so I think the ADA will go with the sure thing and drop the rest. Hey I did my job he was off the street and it was fully documented.

Back to the FST's

I usually ask how much they have had to drink, the alphabet and a little number test before I even get them out of the vehicle.

Once out of the vehicle:

Nine step
One leg stand
Finger to nose

We have a few PBT's sitting in a desk somewhere but have yet to use them.

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Posted by: darkknight750il

Gil
If are able to identify/get a statement from the civilian who called in the erratic operation, that will help your case, especially if you didn't observe impaired operation/had limited opportunity. Post arrest FST usually are useless in court, but since he requested them it has a small chance.
Goodluck

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Posted by: dcs2244

When some meddler, er, citizen, calls in a drunk on his cell phone, we stay in contact and get his info...after the stop, we take a statement and bring him into court to describe the erratic operation.

If they refuse to give their info...no BOLO.

The oft-repeated phrase is: "...But I don't want to get involved..."! The oft-repeated response is: "...Then why'd you call?...". Such a response tends to discourage "erratic operator" calls by "A-doubles" who got "cut-off" and are seeking revenge: "...I'll show him...star MSP...).

Not that anyone would do that!

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Posted by: darkknight750il

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcs2244 @ Sun Dec 05, 02:05 If they refuse to give their info...no BOLO.

Great policy from a prosecution aspect but I have seen plenty of cases where a BOLO is sent out from an anonymous caller and the case gets kicked in court or on appeal.

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Posted by: dcs2244

If the citizen refuses to get involved, then we do not need to be involved. This is the essence of "rule of law". If one denies this then, yes, we can control the situation. It's called "police state"!

If you do not want to be "involved", then simply don't call.

We exist to keep the anarchists down to a low level. Therefore, you are free to pursue whatever line of work you wish. To prove the point, how about all the american police take a ...month...off? Your constitution will not be worth the paper it was written on! The cop's don't care, as we are able to take care of our own: the sheep are not able to do so.

Welcome to the cult of death...but at least you will be unencumbered by the police and truly free!

It's your choice.

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Posted by: Gil

We had a named caller, provided his contact info etc... was summonsed and did appear and almost lost on appeal because at the time the dispatcher (me) did not call the rp back on his cell phone and verify who he said he was. I guess they will try anything to avoid a 3rd conviction

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Posted by: jimbo

Reno, i'm a full time municipal police officer in a community of about 60,000 people. i was taught to do alphabet, 9 step and 1 leg stand for fst. we were taught hgn and most of us use it for confirmation but d.a. never mentions hgn results during trials. seems that there is no consistent way of doing sobriety tests in this state. i thought it was standardized by mcjtc in 1998...

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Posted by: j809

Standard SFST are changed all the time. New ones as of this year are as follows

1.HGN
2.VGN
3.Walk and Turn
4.One Leg Stand
5.PBT

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Posted by: bluesamurai22

I had SFST training in 1996. The tests at the time were HGN, 9 step walk-and-turn and the one leg stand. I took my manual from the MCJTC/NHTSA and made up two templates in MS Word so that I would do the tests the exact same way every time.

One template lists all of the instructions and the second has areas to record the results. I put the results sheet on a lightweight clipboard (something that I can't get beat up with), then I fold the instruction sheet and put it over half of the sheet. When I do the tests I read the instructions from the sheet and jot down notes or check off boxes to show "clues". I have all of the information on the sheets to decide if the person failed or not and I have the decision matrix for the HGN / Walk and turn tests. I throw in a simple pre-exit recite the alphabet test just so a jury can have three tests to look at. While HGN will never go into a run of the mill OUI trial it would certainly be a factor in a serious case. My eye doctor has actually been called in to testify at OUI trials.

Once the results sheet is filled out the two sheets are easily copied and then attached to the reports. I sent these templates to Pat Rogers and he thought they were excellent. He said he was going to throw them into one of his books.

I also keep a roll of masking tape handy and use that to form the perfect straight line for the walk-and-turn. I have the subject hold the end of the tape while I pull it back and then have them stick it to the ground.

Before you even do field sobriety tests one important thing you should check is your department policy. If your policy lists certain tests you could have a very hard time in court when you deviate from those accepted tests. Our old policy did not mention NHTSA SFST's. Two of the tests were in there but HGN was not.

The other thing I have done was to make up an OUI report template in Word. This makes it very easy to write the report up. The template gives detailed explanations for each test and there are places for every little piece of info. that might be forgotten (PC for stop, footwear, advisements, BT results, etc...) It's even easier to write a report when you can copy all of the field notes.

My stops and tests are performed the same way every single time and I feel that they would be very easy to defend in court.

I have had about 20 OUI's and I haven't been to court on one yet.

If anyone is interested in my templates I can e-mail them to you.

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Posted by: tellyour

Can anyone give any more info on the "HGN" procedure? I am not really sure what that is.

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Posted by: j809

If the last SFST instruction you received was 1996 then that is the one you have to use and keep your manual and academy training records. If you attended a new one then that is what you will use. I went through four in various years and instructor which superceded previous training. So if you attended the MPOC 25 years ago and received no extra training in SFST then you are only held to that level that was taught to you.

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Posted by: bluesamurai22

Quote:

Originally Posted by tellyour @ Tue Dec 07, 12:29 Can anyone give any more info on the "HGN" procedure? I am not really sure what that is.

Here's a good link that explains it in detail:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...us/hgntxt.html

It's a pretty good party trick and works great on those who deny they were drinking. I have found that it's probably the most accurate filed test besides a PBT.

I'm out sick today so I will e-mail everyone who requested those templates when I'm in work tommorrow. I appreciate the interest and I'm always looking for weaknesses and ways to improve what I have. Any and all feedback is appreciated.

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Posted by: jackryan

As far as the anonymous caller is concerned, if you locate the vehicle - get your own PC for the stop . Swerving, weaving etc. then you don't need the caller. You can't just refuse to look for the driver just because you don't have the RP's info, what if the driver kills someone - as Eugenio says "How many more must die"??

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Posted by: jimbo

Tellyour - HGN stands for Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus - basically, the subjects eyes will jerk when you have them follow an object, such as a pen or your finger, without turning their head, as you move it from shoulder to shoulder. The sooner their eyes "jerK", the more intoxicated by alcohol they are. In most Courts an expert's testimony is required for this test to be entered as testimony. It is very rare for experts to be summonsed to testify as to HGNs validity. That is why i posted this thread - i am curious as to what, if anything, the Massachusetts Criminal Justice Training Council (now the MPOTC) has determined to be a standardized OUI Field Sobriety Test (FST) - from the postings i've seen - it appears that we are all over the board and there is no consistency. I am curious as to how the Mass. State Police do their OUI FSTs - is it consistent statewide ? what is their FST ??

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Posted by: wilkinson

j809

You've got it "right on" throughout this thread!

Also, I've seen a lot of cops (especially when training for the SFST) "see" HGN.....where there isn't any at all!

New trainees are dying to see jerkiness come hell or high water. They bring in drunks who are .22, and then some who are .06. They bring in stone cold sober guys who are good at acting drunk, and show zero signs of HGN!

But plenty of cops see it anyway.

And something else not mentioned here for probably good reason:

How many of us cops on OUI stops, while demonstrating SFST to drivers, have what it takes to admit they've been embarassed to death when they couldn't do the one leg stand to save their own ass?

It happens to the best of us!

MSP?

They do the SFST to NHTSA standards.

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Posted by: Macop

I only do the tests that were taught to me in the academy and whats in OUI manual I was given at the academy which I still reference time to time.

1.HGN
2.Walk and turn
3.One leg stand
4. PBT

I get crap from some of the older guys who went thorugh before and were trained differently about the SFSTs and my take is that is that you do what you were trained to do and not to throw some extras in.

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Posted by: Macop

Now that were on the subject anyone know of any case laws dealing with OUI arrests where the stop was made because of a 90/7 or 90/20 violation.

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Posted by: wilkinson

Macop

I don't have the data but I'd say that maybe 50% of all OUI stops come from 90/7 violations.

That is my experience, anyway.

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Posted by: Gil

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop";p=&quot Now that were on the subject anyone know of any case laws dealing with OUI arrests where the stop was made because of a 90/7 or 90/20 violation.

You don't need to see erratic operation to get an OUI, if you conduct the stop for 90/7 or anything for that matter and through your conversations with the operator determine that they seemed impaired and subsequently get locked up OUI I don't see an issue.

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Posted by: Macop

I don't either, but somewone I know does and I was wondering if there was any case law in regards to it.

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