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Detail at Century Bank, Medford

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Posted by: Killjoy

Recently I was in the Century Bank on Mystic Ave. in Medford and I noticed a Middlesex County Sheriff's car out front. Well, I thought nothing of it at first (maybe the deputy was depositing his check or something), until I walked in the lobby and saw the deputy behind the security counter. It seemed to me that he was on a paid detail, so my question is this; are the Medford PD so flush with details they're handing this great air-conditioned gig to the Sheriff's? I have a hard time believing this, but anything's possible. Anyone know?



Posted by: Sniper

Wow.



Posted by: rg1283

Another thing are those armed Wackenhut Bank Protection gaurds thats I see so much in the Boston Area.



Posted by: mactj2

They have a human resource address there. On the job forum they recently had a posting for MSO Court Security Guard...the address was posted there.
There seems to be 2 cruisers parked there all the time.
I work in Medford..often with the police...I doubt they would let a detail like that pass them by.
The mayor of Medford is also very tight with the Sheriff himself...who knows



Posted by: pahapoika

Another thing are those armed Wackenhut Bank Protection gaurds thats I see so much in the Boston Area.

we have one that hangs out in front of the bank on the main street



Posted by: OutOfManyOne

It should have been filled by other local cops or msp but never a freakin sheriff.



Posted by: masscopguy

Medford Mayor McGlynn's wife works in the Sheriff's office. Considering the way the police contract negotiations are going, I doubt they would be doing anything to make the Mayor happy. The Middlesex Sheriff's office has thier HR office on Mystic Ave in Medford.

Wakenhut has armed guards at Bank of America's full service banks. The guards are required to stand outside the bank on the street and are not allowed to spend time inside the bank. As security guard pay goes those guys are paid pretty well.



Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killjoy
Recently I was in the Century Bank on Mystic Ave. in Medford and I noticed a Middlesex County Sheriff's car out front. Well, I thought nothing of it at first (maybe the deputy was depositing his check or something), until I walked in the lobby and saw the deputy behind the security counter. It seemed to me that he was on a paid detail, so my question is this; are the Medford PD so flush with details they're handing this great air-conditioned gig to the Sheriff's? I have a hard time believing this, but anything's possible. Anyone know?
I have no insight into what's happening in Medford, but while we do have some guys who enjoy bank details, they're sometimes a hard sell in the summer.

The A/C is great, but it's still usually only 4 hours, you can't leave once you get there (bring a coffee and a cooler), and the "inside" detail rate is a couple of dollars less than the alcohol and road construction rate, so every once in awhile we do have trouble filling them.



Posted by: Inspector

Believe it or not it is getting harder and harder to fill details of all types. Many departments have fewer personnel due to budget cuts. They still have to fill shifts and O.T. overtime duty pay in many cases is higher than detail rate. With so many officers covering empty shifts this leaves lots of room for others to fill those details. In this area out-of-town officers, sheriffs and just about anybody else available are covering the details.



Posted by: Sgt K

Melrose is only 4 square miles and 2 of them are golf courses! We give away about a dozen jobs a day and have working agreements with 11 departments from Someville to North Reading.
As long as the officer isn't taking a job away from a co-worker or myself, I could care less what the patch on the sleeve reads. If the officer/trooper/sheriff is able to keep the bank/liquor store/street safe isn't that the ultimate purpose of "public safety"?



Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:
As long as the officer isn't taking a job away from a co-worker or myself, I could care less what the patch on the sleeve reads. If the officer/trooper/sheriff is able to keep the bank/liquor store/street safe isn't that the ultimate purpose of "public safety"?
Hence, my question...are these details being distributed fairly, or are the Sheriff's department getting some inside track for them? As long as they have been unfilled by local department first, I have no beef with Sheriff's doing them.



Posted by: mikemac64

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killjoy
As long as they have been unfilled by local department first, I have no beef with Sheriff's doing them.
I think most people agree with this mindset.

On a side note, there may have been some sort of disagreement with our Sheriff (or more likely one the many Captains and such) so they are not working for us. Something to do with billing or some such.



Posted by: TopCop24

There were 4 Essex County sheriffs on a detail on 495 around Mass Ave last Sunday night....poor trooper who was stuck with that bunch



Posted by: pahapoika

They have a human resource address there.

that's the answer i got from a Sgt. that works inside the jail.

Middlesex rents office space there



Posted by: Macop

God Point SGT
Melrose is only 4 square miles and 2 of them are golf courses! We give away about a dozen jobs a day and have working agreements with 11 departments from Someville to North Reading.
As long as the officer isn't taking a job away from a co-worker or myself, I could care less what the patch on the sleeve reads. If the officer/trooper/sheriff is able to keep the bank/liquor store/street safe isn't that the ultimate purpose of "public safety"?

Be careful Killjoy, if Bbelichick sees what you wrote you in twouble.
Hence, my question...are these details being distributed fairly, or are the Sheriff's department getting some inside track for them? As long as they have been unfilled by local department first, I have no beef with Sheriff's doing them.



Posted by: pahapoika

There were 4 Essex County sheriffs on a detail on 495 around Mass Ave last Sunday night....poor trooper who was stuck with that bunch

if they were officers that worked inside i would say he was in good company.
especially if there was a problem with an unruly motorist



Posted by: SinePari

When the barracks can't fill an OT, and it goes out to the troop, that irks me, just as when a local gets a detail on the big road. Hey, good for the guy who gets the $$$ regardless on what dept, but bad for us for not stepping up to fill the jobs.

Protecting what's yours also means each individual needs to step up every now and then and help out. Don't bitch at the the next SPAM meeting, or FOP, or whatever, about sheriffs getting your jobs if you just do 40 and out each week. The extra $$$ doesn't hurt either.



Posted by: 94c

Every once in a while we have to remind the MSP not to hire deputies to cover unfilled jobs. But overall, things are not that bad.



Posted by: Rock

I drive by that bank all the time and those two Sherrif cars are there all the time and parked in the same spot. I've always wondered why. I've also never seen anyone in the cars.

???



Posted by: honor12900

Quote:
Originally Posted by pahapoika
There were 4 Essex County sheriffs on a detail on 495 around Mass Ave last Sunday night....poor trooper who was stuck with that bunch

if they were officers that worked inside i would say he was in good company.
especially if there was a problem with an unruly motorist
I worked the same detail the next day. All the Officers who took those details with Essex are all co's that work inside. All the troopers I have worked with were all class acts.



Posted by: Badge 2

Some of you people really amaze me and before I say anymore I have worked colleges, cities and towns and yes even as a law enforcement deputy!

What if you just can't get on the State police or a town. What if you get a job for the sheriff and they offer you an outside detail. Should you say no because if I work with a trooper or a town cop that are going to look down on me. Doesn't the state and towns make more then the sheriffs guys.

Do some of you people really be grudge a guy for wanting to put more money in his pocket!

I am the 1st to say that you should try to fill the detail properly but if it get's to the SD I just don't understand why you think that's so bad.

What I find even funnier is that most guys if not everyone were more then cordial when we worked together.

Ok so in closing, god please forbid if that poor whakenhut guy (who most likely always wanted to be on the job but that is the best he can do) get's killed in the line of duty, some of you guys could care less! Sleep well!

Let the bashing begin.



Posted by: mpd61

I do see Middlesex Deputies doing details in natick quite often.



Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by Badge 2
Some of you people really amaze me and before I say anymore I have worked colleges, cities and towns and yes even as a law enforcement deputy!

What if you just can't get on the State police or a town. What if you get a job for the sheriff and they offer you an outside detail. Should you say no because if I work with a trooper or a town cop that are going to look down on me. Doesn't the state and towns make more then the sheriffs guys.

Do some of you people really be grudge a guy for wanting to put more money in his pocket!

I am the 1st to say that you should try to fill the detail properly but if it get's to the SD I just don't understand why you think that's so bad.

What I find even funnier is that most guys if not everyone were more then cordial when we worked together.

Ok so in closing, god please forbid if that poor whakenhut guy (who most likely always wanted to be on the job but that is the best he can do) get's killed in the line of duty, some of you guys could care less! Sleep well!

Let the bashing begin.
I have no problem with deputies working details. But it won't be in the city I work for. As long as we can agree with that, then all the power to the deputies.



Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:
that's the answer i got from a Sgt. that works inside the jail.

Middlesex rents office space there
Thank you, thats all I was looking for. This was not a post bashing Sheriff's for doing details, lord knows I've worked enough of them with deputies. I was just making sure that there wasn't some sort of tom-foolery going on about the distribution of details. The Medford PD has been without a contract a long time, and that doesn't bode well for management-labor relations. You can't take your eyes off the man for a second...I know my union brothers will back me on this.

Quote:
When the barracks can't fill an OT, and it goes out to the troop, that irks me, just as when a local gets a detail on the big road. Hey, good for the guy who gets the $$$ regardless on what dept, but bad for us for not stepping up to fill the jobs.

Protecting what's yours also means each individual needs to step up every now and then and help out. Don't bitch at the the next SPAM meeting, or FOP, or whatever, about sheriffs getting your jobs if you just do 40 and out each week. The extra $$$ doesn't hurt either.
Well, if some guys have child-care issues, or family issues, or a spouse who works and makes decent bank, then I wouldn't expect to see him out on the road on their time off. I usually do only one or two a week because I enjoy my down time!



Posted by: SPINMASS

While I also enjoy my down time, I have to agree that as union/dept members we need to step up to the plate and take what we can get otherwise we may lose it. I don't mean that everybody needs to work 80 hrs a week and take every detail, but the same detail should not go out of town everyday.



Posted by: MM1799

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinePari
Protecting what's yours also means each individual needs to step up every now and then and help out. Don't bitch at the the next SPAM meeting, or FOP, or whatever, about sheriffs getting your jobs if you just do 40 and out each week. The extra $$$ doesn't hurt either.
I agree in principle with your point. However, practically, can you blame a guy/gal who works hard on their shift, commutes miles and miles and spends his commute providing free coverage and shagging DMVs, for wanting to enjoy his free time? Whether because he has family issue (as Killjoy said) or just doesn't feel like taking advantage of the extra benefit afforded to us?
Again, I understand the whole "use it or lose it" mentality but I don't see a problem when the barracks cant fill it and it goes to the troop.

As far as the sheriff getting our job, you and I both know it is much more about the callouts, OT and such -- rather than a simple detail every month or so.



Posted by: csauce777

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfManyOne
It should have been filled by other local cops or msp but never a freakin sheriff.
Ok...here's a legitimate question. Let me preface this by saying that I have no affiliation with any Sheriff, anywhere, and I have no vested interest in Sheriffs getting details as I work for a municipality.

My question is this...Is there something official that says that private companies (including banks) MUST hire local/and or MSP guys to fill private security details? Is there something that says Bank of America for example, can't hire deputies directly to fill their details inside their buildings rather than locals? Road jobs are clearly a different animal that have legislation behind them, but how can you force a private business to employ locals vs. deputies? If we are going to split hairs...why shouldnt banks hire Feds to do their details as crimes that occur in banks generally fall under FBI jurisdiction as they are FDIC insured?

Just thought I'd pose some questions for responses...



Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by csauce777
Ok...here's a legitimate question. Let me preface this by saying that I have no affiliation with any Sheriff, anywhere, and I have no vested interest in Sheriffs getting details as I work for a municipality.

My question is this...Is there something official that says that private companies (including banks) MUST hire local/and or MSP guys to fill private security details? Is there something that says Bank of America for example, can't hire deputies directly to fill their details inside their buildings rather than locals? Road jobs are clearly a different animal that have legislation behind them, but how can you force a private business to employ locals vs. deputies? If we are going to split hairs...why shouldnt banks hire Feds to do their details as crimes that occur in banks generally fall under FBI jurisdiction as they are FDIC insured?

Just thought I'd pose some questions for responses...
Our collective bargaining agreement states that we are the main providers of law enforcement duties in our cities. This naturally includes details.

A sheriff working a detail in our city will cause the job to be shut down and the deputy to leave his post. Any resistance that is met will result in a return with a court order. Either way the job is over and the deputy is going home.

If the banks want to hire the feds for details then all the power to them.

They will absolutely, at that point, take every police call and report associated with that location. Never underestimate the power of Unions.

I'm sure the FBI is really interested in bank details when they don't even get involved in Bank Robberies unless direct violence is involved or a pattern begins to emerge.

While your at it, why not ask about the U.S. Treasury Police since they are the ones making the money. Your what if scenario carries as much logic as hiring the CMPSA to patrol the pike.



Posted by: masscopguy

It is an interesting question, considering that a bank can hire ABC security why can't they hire a County Deputy for a detail. I am not saying the collective bargining agreement is wrong. It was just an interesting question.

I do know Constables who have worked private details in a uniform. There are guidelines on what a Constable uniform can consist of. I am not saying that if the local PD was aware of this they couldn't shut the event down. I just know that it happens from time to time.

My brother, the SP Sgt is no fan of Sheriff's Deputies but he would rather see a road job covered by a Deputy than go unfilled because he believes that if many details go unfilled and nothing happens it would add to fuel to the argument that some details are unnecessary.



Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by csauce777
My question is this...Is there something official that says that private companies (including banks) MUST hire local/and or MSP guys to fill private security details? Is there something that says Bank of America for example, can't hire deputies directly to fill their details inside their buildings rather than locals? Road jobs are clearly a different animal that have legislation behind them, but how can you force a private business to employ locals vs. deputies?
Banks, supermarkets, and other non-alcohol businesses can hire whomever they want. But, if a bank or supermarket wants to hire any law enforcement personnel other than the city or town PD, they're asking for problems. If the sheriff's department started working details at banks or markets, they just bought every incident that happens at that location. If they call for help, we'll make sure they're not getting killed, then leave the bag of shit in their lap. See how long that lasts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csauce777
If we are going to split hairs...why shouldnt banks hire Feds to do their details as crimes that occur in banks generally fall under FBI jurisdiction as they are FDIC insured?
We do the detail at the local Social Security Office, because the Feds couldn't possibly fill all of them. If the Federal Protective Service took over that detail tomorrow we'd have no bitch at all, since they do respond to alarms and other calls for service there.



Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by masscopguy
It is an interesting question, considering that a bank can hire ABC security why can't they hire a County Deputy for a detail. I am not saying the collective bargining agreement is wrong. It was just an interesting question.

I do know Constables who have worked private details in a uniform. There are guidelines on what a Constable uniform can consist of. I am not saying that if the local PD was aware of this they couldn't shut the event down. I just know that it happens from time to time.

My brother, the SP Sgt is no fan of Sheriff's Deputies but he would rather see a road job covered by a Deputy than go unfilled because he believes that if many details go unfilled and nothing happens it would add to fuel to the argument that some details are unnecessary.
ABC Security has no law enforcement authority and comes at a greatly reduced price. Deputies on the other hand would lead to a meeting with bank management and the Union. We have an excellent relationship with the banking community so they would never step on our toes that way.

Constables are regulated locally and they do not wear uniforms or perform any police function. They are appointed and re-appointed for civil process only. (After all, it is the police that conduct the appointment/renewal process)

Also, a collective bargaining agreement cannot be right or wrong. It is a bound legal document between the Union and the City. Naturally any violations will have to be met with grievances, pickets, and any other legal union activity that is protected by law.

Our CBA does not include deputies or constables so they have no say in the matter.

A couple of times a year we have to place a call to the MSP detail office because they have hired a deputy instead of a city police officer. This only occurs when someone is filling in for the regular detail guy and is not familiar with the rules. Or the detail office tells the company that they can't fill the job so they call the sheriff's department on their own.

It happens, but it is rare.

Just like the MSP doesn't take details away from us in the city. For the most part Unions respect other Unions. Political Hack Appointees have no concept of Union and thus think they can do whatever they wish.



Posted by: csauce777

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94c
I'm sure the FBI is really interested in bank details when they don't even get involved in Bank Robberies unless direct violence is involved or a pattern begins to emerge.

While your at it, why not ask about the U.S. Treasury Police since they are the ones making the money. Your what if scenario carries as much logic as hiring the CMPSA to patrol the pike.
I pose a legitimate question, and you respond with CMPSA patrolling the Mass Pike. My point wasnt to give the details away to the Sheriffs Department...I work for a department that doesnt give deputies details unless we exhaust all surrounding towns, and I agree that we should be doing that. My point was simply to ask what gives us the actual authority to claim exclusive rights to work details on someones private property. You seem to take this personally, and I'm not sure why.

Quote:
Also, a collective bargaining agreement cannot be right or wrong. It is a bound legal document between the Union and the City. Naturally any violations will have to be met with grievances, pickets, and any other legal union activity that is protected by law.
I guess I dont understand where a CBA has any bearing on a private business. You stated that it is an agreement between the union and the city. Where in there is it any kind of agreement involving anyone else? Who are you going to grieve, the bank? They are not bound by any contract provisions. Delta is right...if they choose to hire someone else, you simply leave the bag of shit with them, and thats understandable.



Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by csauce777
I guess I dont understand where a CBA has any bearing on a private business. You stated that it is an agreement between the union and the city. Where in there is it any kind of agreement involving anyone else? Who are you going to grieve, the bank? They are not bound by any contract provisions. Delta is right...if they choose to hire someone else, you simply leave the bag of shit with them, and thats understandable.
Sorry about the Pike comment. I didn't think you were serious about FBI agents working paid details.

A private business is not a sovereign nation. They still have to abide by the laws of the land. If they want to hire people for law enforcement functions then they have to hire the real Police. The only other option is private security or create their own private police department.

And why would we want to grieve a bank when it would be so much easier and a lot more fun to go after deputies? But then again, 50-75 pissed off cops holding signs and "informing" the clientele of what the bank is all about may not be so good for business either.

Maybe we'll start a phone tree of family members who have accounts at the bank and send them all down there at the same time to close out their accounts.

Private business does not like negative publicity.



Posted by: pahapoika

why not unionize the deputies ?



Posted by: OutOfManyOne

It doesn't matter if they are unionized, they can't work in a city or town detail without permission from that PD. But as someone said, deputy hacks could care less about unions as they would f*ck their own mother for a job.



Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by pahapoika
why not unionize the deputies ?
How about they just forget about working details, unless they're invited?



Posted by: USMCTrooper

A CBA does have an affect on private businesses. Details by definition are usually PRIVATE companies: gas, electric, tree cutting, guardrail repair, paving-they are all privately owned. As for businesses that don't conduct business on a roadway, think of bars, restaurants, concerts, etc all of which are privately owned and hire Police departments to work extra details.

In my town, it is written in the CBA that only the town police may perform police duties within the town, excluding State Police, which has jurisdiction throughout the state (and limited exceptions like fresh continued pursuit, mutual aid, etc etc.) A few years back, Six Flags wanted their own security to become specials. This would have required approval from the Chief. The local union referenced the CBA and it never happened. Another time the Chief had an idea to hire cops from an neighboring town to patrol a state highway/city roads to "assist" his guys with traffic caused by Six Flags. Our Union and the locals union banded together and kept it from happening, instead getting more of them and a few of us hired instead.



Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by pahapoika
why not unionize the deputies ?
Because the sheriff would toss those rabble rousers back behind the walls where they belong.

His empire is built on political hacks keeping him in power. Not fighting him for things like job security and seniority.



Posted by: sulldog6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killjoy
Recently I was in the Century Bank on Mystic Ave. in Medford and I noticed a Middlesex County Sheriff's car out front. Well, I thought nothing of it at first (maybe the deputy was depositing his check or something), until I walked in the lobby and saw the deputy behind the security counter. It seemed to me that he was on a paid detail, so my question is this; are the Medford PD so flush with details they're handing this great air-conditioned gig to the Sheriff's? I have a hard time believing this, but anything's possible. Anyone know?


To answer your question

There is no detail at that bank. The MSO moved their office into the building and part of the agreement is they (mso) will provide a desk officer for "security".
Medford PD (detail office) is well aware of the situation along with the two unions (superior & patrol).



Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Quote:
Originally Posted by sulldog6
To answer your question

There is no detail at that bank. The MSO moved their office into the building and part of the agreement is they (mso) will provide a desk officer for "security".
Medford PD (detail office) is well aware of the situation along with the two unions (superior & patrol).
And your unions are cool with that i suppose.



Posted by: THE RP

Some lucky deputy every day gets to pretend he's a cop..Do they rotate this through the whole department so everyone can get delusions of grandeur..It's funny how the High Sheriff always looks for some way to float his hack patch around so people really think he's doing law enforcement work out on the streets as opposed to being COs and a glorified warden....Unfortunately the unions probably have no say and neither does the chief because the esteemed Sheriff is wining and dining all of the politicos in town to make sure nobody says anything.....Status quo dirtbag suck ball corruption....And what everyone needs to remember is this...The hours that the hack deputy sits behind that desk instead of on a tier where he belongs...Is that many less hours that a real local cop can be hired at detail rate..Bottom line. It's scab labor for a cut on the rent in the building..How nice...



Posted by: pahapoika

well , since the evil deputies don't seem to be going anywhere despite the loathing of some people , wouldn't it stand to reason that making them a part of the local police union would put them in control of said union ?

as Teamsters we would actively pursue non-union trucking company drivers to unionize , there by making them part of the Teamsters and strengthen our position in the work force.

and if these deputies are so desperate to become "real cops" then joining a cop union would really make their day and also make them part of a binding contract.

as the old saying goes ........keep your friends close , but keep your enemies closer.



Posted by: 94c

someone needs a piss test



Posted by: masscopguy

All I can say is sitting at a desk in an air conditioned office in July sure beats doing a pick and stick on RT 3 in Chelmsford.



Posted by: RPD931

It's my understanding that the (jurisdiction) "levels of power" so to speak are as follows:

1) MSP
2) County (Sheriff's/Deputies)
3) Local (city or town)

Clearly the Deputies have less powers than Locals, but they DO have arrest authority for many MGL's. What prohibits any entity from skipping over the Local PD and going right to MSP or County?

And no, I'm not a hack deputy, I'm a local popo. Just a question..



Posted by: pahapoika

someone needs a piss test

i'm sure the CO's working inside the jail are not happy these political hacks are wearing the same uniform.

maybe some support from the local PD would put pressure on the sheriff to make everybody CO's first , deputies second. such as Suffolk , Norfolk and Barnstable.

that would weed out the hacks very quickly and most CO's already belong to a union.



Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD931
It's my understanding that the (jurisdiction) "levels of power" so to speak are as follows:

1) MSP
2) County (Sheriff's/Deputies)
3) Local (city or town)

Clearly the Deputies have less powers than Locals, but they DO have arrest authority for many MGL's. What prohibits any entity from skipping over the Local PD and going right to MSP or County?

And no, I'm not a hack deputy, I'm a local popo. Just a question..
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT

or

COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT

and if that doesn't work, try...

COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT



Posted by: Delta784

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPD931
What prohibits any entity from skipping over the Local PD and going right to MSP or County?
In the case of road construction or alcohol functions, we have a city ordinance that requires the hiring of city police officers. If Joe's Paving or Saucy's Bar wants to hire a deputy or state trooper on detail, they also have to hire us by law....not a very economical business move.

If they just hire someone else and refuse to hire us, the bar's owner will find himself in front of the licensing board for a liquor license suspension hearing, and the road construction job gets shut down. Again, not a very smart business decision.

If it's a business that isn't required to have a police detail (bank, supermarket, etc.), they hire someone else at their own peril. Whatever agency takes the detail will become responsible for all law enforcement services for that property on a 24-hour basis. See how long that lasts.



Posted by: sulldog6

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfManyOne
And your unions are cool with that i suppose.

My disclaimer first: I no longer work for MPD (transferred) but this is a hot topic at the bitch sessions (after work refreshment hour(s)).

From what has been said both unions checked into any violations of city ordinances and found none (city was no help, refer to political ties posted earlier in the thread). When a letter was sent to the bank from the detail office to inquire why there was a MSO deputy working a security desk the branch manager stated to his knowledge the deputy was there for "building security" because of the MSO office and was not there for the bank.

From what i have been told this is not a dead issue as far as the unions are concerned.
It's a wait and see.
i'll just enjoy my
</IMG>



Posted by: mpdcam

Hey Sully, you still owe me a or a . We got plenty to talk about at the next church meeting.





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