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Powers of Sheriffs/Deputy Sheriffs

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: JoninNH

Anyone attend this?

http://commonwealthpolice.net/sems/sheriff.html

During this one day presentation, we will cover all the major areas impacting Massachusetts Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs each and everyday. All areas of discussion will be based entirely on the Massachusetts General Laws and Massachusetts case law. Just some of the issues that will be addressed include:


the fundamental power of the Sheriff & Deputy Sheriffs under the common law of Massachusetts (also the carrying of weapons)

the authority of Deputy Sheriffs to work road details & stop MV and write CMVIs (clearly permissible here in (Massachusetts)

the legalities concerning the serving of process—what constitute notice? what type of processes can be served? civil? criminal?

effecting arrests with a warrant (criminal) & effecting arrests with a capias (civil)

jurisdictional issues (when can you have power outside your sworn territory)

the legal ramifications concerning an arrest (including the use of K-9s)

civil liability for effecting an illegal arrest

the transportation of prisoners

civil liability for effecting an illegal entry and seizure of a dwelling

what a Sheriff can do to help insulate himself/herself from civil liability

the constitutional protections which must be afforded to a person in custody

how the Massachusetts General Laws permit Sheriffs to request aid to effect arrests, etc.

the Eviction process (the presentation will include a thorough explanation of the duties and responsibilities of the Massachusetts sheriff concerning the summary eviction process)

COST: $100.00
TIMES: 9:00 to 1:00
DATE: February 7, 2004
LOCATION: Medford Police Department


Posted by: j809

Pat Rogers will make alot of money because of the CH90 connotation and the wannabe factor of deputy sherifsf. Man knows how to sale it. The only problem he forgets to add is that the RMV cannot issue books to Sheriffs because they are not allowed under Ch.90. Hmm, how interesting. But 300 knuckleheads times $100 is $30000. Not bad for half a day's work. Pat will laugh all the way to the bank, as he is having lunch with a few police Chiefs talking about it.


Posted by: topcop14

I just hope he spell checks his books for a change.


Posted by: Otto

Quote:
Originally Posted by j809 @ Fri November 26, 2004 7:49 am
Pat Rogers will make alot of money because of the CH90 connotation and the wannabe factor of deputy sherifsf. Man knows how to sale it. The only problem he forgets to add is that the RMV cannot issue books to Sheriffs because they are not allowed under Ch.90. Hmm, how interesting. But 300 knuckleheads times $100 is $30000. Not bad for half a day's work. Pat will laugh all the way to the bank, as he is having lunch with a few police Chiefs talking about it.
You should probably attend this class. You obviously have a lot to learn.


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto @ 26 Nov 2004 09:09
Quote:
Originally Posted by j809 @ Fri November 26, 2004 7:49 am
Pat Rogers will make alot of money because of the CH90 connotation and the wannabe factor of deputy sherifsf. Man knows how to sale it. The only problem he forgets to add is that the RMV cannot issue books to Sheriffs because they are not allowed under Ch.90. Hmm, how interesting. But 300 knuckleheads times $100 is $30000. Not bad for half a day's work. Pat will laugh all the way to the bank, as he is having lunch with a few police Chiefs talking about it.
You should probably attend this class. You obviously have a lot to learn.

Otto, I think we could all spend $100 on better things. Pat Rogers makes beaucoup $$$$ and ask yourself why he always has the little disclaimer about Department Policy and case law? Because he has no delusions of grandeur and realizes he's just an attormey, not the SJC.



Posted by: Otto

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd61 @ Sun November 28, 2004 2:24 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto @ 26 Nov 2004 09:09
Quote:
Originally Posted by j809 @ Fri November 26, 2004 7:49 am
Pat Rogers will make alot of money because of the CH90 connotation and the wannabe factor of deputy sherifsf. Man knows how to sale it. The only problem he forgets to add is that the RMV cannot issue books to Sheriffs because they are not allowed under Ch.90. Hmm, how interesting. But 300 knuckleheads times $100 is $30000. Not bad for half a day's work. Pat will laugh all the way to the bank, as he is having lunch with a few police Chiefs talking about it.
You should probably attend this class. You obviously have a lot to learn.

Otto, I think we could all spend $100 on better things. Pat Rogers makes beaucoup $$$$ and ask yourself why he always has the little disclaimer about Department Policy and case law? Because he has no delusions of grandeur and realizes he's just an attormey, not the SJC.

Are you saying that because he is not the SJC there is nothing to learn from him? So I should not trust anything he says or publishes? Have you ever wasted your time on his material?



Posted by: jimbo

"common law" is out dated. In todays world it is only fully trained and experienced police officers that should enforce the law. I would give the current county sheriff no bigger break than anyone else gets. Personally, i think only full time correction officers with a year of direct inmate contact, police and military veterans should be appointed as deputies. It's time for the politics to be taken out of deputy positions. The typical part time deputy sheriff seems to have done nothing more than hold a campaign sign and then go to an anemic part time academy to get his position. In this state, part time deputies primarilly only direct traffic at construction sites. A true suck up position. If they want any semblance of respect, an unbiased test , which does not include the ability to hold a campaign sign, should be mandated. Until then, they should be required to work inside the jail for 1 year assisting the correction officers.


Posted by: JoninNH

I started this thread to find out if any deputy sheriffs had attended his course and what they thought about it not to flame the fire of the deputy sheriff/muni cop debate. That's why I posted it on the Sheriffs section of the board not the Hot Topics.


Posted by: reno911_2004

It seems that any mention of the "S" word on this forum automatically triggers a sheriff/deputy sheriff bashing fest. For some reason I actually thought that you posting it under this topic would avoid a repeat, but unfortunately not.


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto @ 28 Nov 2004 15:34
[Because he has no delusions of grandeur and realizes he's just an attormey, not the SJC.

Are you saying that because he is not the SJC there is nothing to learn from him? So I should not trust anything he says or publishes? Have you ever wasted your time on his material?
[/quote]

No........................
I'm saying he's one smart attorney who makes good $$$, and that he is only ONE man interpreting laws. He is not 100% absolute. Thats what I mean. And yes I use his materials, but I also use others and read case law etc.



Posted by: NACop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto @ Fri 26 Nov, 2004 09:09
Quote:
Originally Posted by j809 @ Fri November 26, 2004 7:49 am
Pat Rogers will make alot of money because of the CH90 connotation and the wannabe factor of deputy sherifsf. Man knows how to sale it. The only problem he forgets to add is that the RMV cannot issue books to Sheriffs because they are not allowed under Ch.90. Hmm, how interesting. But 300 knuckleheads times $100 is $30000. Not bad for half a day's work. Pat will laugh all the way to the bank, as he is having lunch with a few police Chiefs talking about it.
You should probably attend this class. You obviously have a lot to learn.
Hey Otto,

You should stick your arse into J809's rotors..........you could use a lobotomy. Hee Hee.
Seriously though, have fun studying for April's test. Hope you get 100 pal!



Posted by: RPD931

Quote:
Originally Posted by j809 @ Fri Nov 26, 2004 7:49 am
Pat Rogers will make alot of money because of the CH90 connotation and the wannabe factor of deputy sherifsf. Man knows how to sale it. The only problem he forgets to add is that the RMV cannot issue books to Sheriffs because they are not allowed under Ch.90. Hmm, how interesting. But 300 knuckleheads times $100 is $30000. Not bad for half a day's work. Pat will laugh all the way to the bank, as he is having lunch with a few police Chiefs talking about it.
Really? Then how did Counties get theres? Many counties have issued cites, Worcester issued several hundred last year.. we're not just talking about 1 or 2 books, we're talking about a couple of cases/boxes of books.


Posted by: j809

I don't know, but it is easy quite easy to find out if SOMEONE really wanted. But they are on DO NOT issue list. The following are the only ones getting it. And please do not interpret it as the RMV will only issue to the following

""Police officer'', any officer, other than an investigator or examiner of the transportation division of the department of telecommunications and energy, authorized to make arrest or serve criminal process, any person appointed by the registrar under section twenty-nine of chapter ninety, any person appointed by the trustees of the University of Massachusetts under section thirty-two A of chapter seventy-five, any person appointed by the trustees of Southeastern Massachusetts university under section seventeen of chapter seventy-five B and any person appointed by the colonel of state police under section fifty-nine of chapter twenty-two C.


Posted by: PearlOnyx

J809,

You mention a "Do Not Issue" list. Do you have a copy of that list so we can all see it? or can you tell me a specific place or person who I can get it from, so I can post it here?


Posted by: BigDog15

Hummmm, I've seen sheriffs with cite books and i've seen sheriffs issue cites to motorists just west of worcester. As a matter of fack a certain friend of mine who is a dep sheriff has two M series books on the dash of his vic as we speak.........


Posted by: jo

I work for the sheriffs office and I have chapter 90. Issued by RMV. There is case law that states "for the purpose of Chapter 90 a Deputy Sheriff is a police officer" If you went through my officer copies you will find only criminal complaints or arrest checked off. I in no way wish to work traffic or take on the roll of our local police. If it is a violation that threatens public safety the operator will be stopped and the situation addressed.

Posted Fri Dec 03, 15:45:

If you work for an agency that has the authority to stop a vehicle but are unable to obtain a book of citations, you have another recorce available to you. Go to the Mass RMV web site, click on miscellaneous forms, click on driving complaint form. This form is used to file a complaint with the RMV pertaining to the improper operation of a motor vehicle. Now you are not powerless and many times the RMV takes violations much more serious than some courts. I would not imagine they want to see these used as speeding tickits but if it was a threat to public safety or your a college with the local yahoo s#@%@ on your boots this may be an option for you.


Posted by: thumper2168

The Sheriff of a county cannot issue ticket books. If a local Chief decides to issue a ticket book, said book can only be used in that jurisdiction.


Posted by: PANACHE

Hey Thumper,

You must be in the Christmas spirit what a nice and friendly reply. I am proud of you.
Maybe sometime when we are having that surf and turf we can think back to the time you were nice to the DeputySheriffs.

Mery Christmas Thumper.


Posted by: jimbo

i fail to understand why a deputy even feels the desire to enforce traffic laws... if the mv offense does not happen on jail property it is NOT your problem or responsibility. PERIOD.
simply report the offense to the local or state police. deputies are not expected or asked to enforce traffic regulations. why not simply do the job you were hired to do and be happy with that ???? no knock intended on non politically connected deputies, but you are NOT police officers. police do 9-1-1 calls and traffic enforcement in Massachusetts - you were not hired or trained to do either... i respect full time deputies and c.o's that earned their jobs without holding political signs - but simply do your own job.


Posted by: JoninNH

I started this topic to find out about that class. I titled the topic Powers of Sheriffs/Deputy Sheriffs because that was what the course was titled. I did not want this to degrade to the who is really law enforcement crap again. Someone please close this thread before the fur flys again.


Posted by: Otto

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper2168 @ Fri December 03, 2004 4:42 pm
If a local Chief decides to issue a ticket book, said book can only be used in that jurisdiction.
Could you provide the basis for this claim? Is it your opinion or is there a statute or case law stating so?

I thought they were uniform throughout the state and everyone uses the same ones.


Posted by: truthbetold

lets all kiss the police ring of jimbo. Jimbo you are the godfather of all policeman and an official spokesman right. I am a full time officer also. I know deputy sheriffs write plenty of citations . If you want case law I believe worcester county set case law about 6 yrs ago (est) with a traffic citation by a deputy and it was appealed . The deputy won under the laws governing this state. I learned this at a law enforcement seminar and lecture at the college I attended. They are law enforcement whether we like it or not. Oh and jimbo almost all deputies, if not all do work in the prisons for longer than a year then go outside as a deputy. I have alot of friends who are. They are not out taking our jobs, patrolling our streets, or making critical arrests. They are on some elite teams along with local policemen working along side us. They have their own budget, their own agenda, and their own equiptment. You see ignorance is so rampant. It usually is a true sign of intelligence.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthbetold @ Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:30 pm
Oh and jimbo almost all deputies, if not all do work in the prisons for longer than a year then go outside as a deputy.
Wow. There's a Sheriff's "Lt" that works near me. I believe his full time job is in Vinyl Siding.

You are not a Police Officer. I suspect I know who you are, and I don't think you'll be around much longer.


Posted by: truthbetold

I doubt you know who i am and if you do so be it. This is a forum and that is my opinion. I am not insecure about my career. The "s" word has no bearing on my life nor my future.


Posted by: BigDog15

Why can't we all just get along?


Posted by: truthbetold

bigdog cheers. i know this is a touchy subject. I look at everyone for the job they do. I didn't become a policeman to be a superhero. I am a 3rd generation officer. I do it because i enjoy it. some people like to feel the power. I like the problem and then the solution. Hope all is safe and well.


Posted by: Wolfman

I smell a "rat"...


Posted by: jimbo

"truth" - you sound more like a hack than a police officer. as i've said before, i respect the legitimate deputies like k9 and Transportation. it's the part time deputies who simply held a campaign sign to get appointed and now want to play police officer that concern me. in the county i live in, there are over 200 hundred part time deputies. the VAST majority do not work in the jail, they simply do traffic details. a correction officer told me recently that only 8-10 of the c.o's in the facility regularly do details, the rest are part time deputies who he does not know. maybe it's different where you live.... My point is WHY would any deputy want Ch 90 powers ? they were not hired to enforce traffic laws and are not expected to. Many of us feel that if deputies are given Ch 90 without restrictions, that some publicity seeking Sheriff will set up radar teams and have incompetent sign holding, part time hacks stirring things up by playing police officer. if it's not your job, what do you care if someone is speeding or has a revoked registration ?? call the State or local p.d. - if traffic enforcement is not your responsibility, and it isn't, dont sweat about it.


Posted by: jo

Jimbo I agree with you if someone is speeding or has a revoked reg I really do not care and probably would not even notice. Following an erratic operator while on duty in a cruiser, calling this into a local pd, waiting for them to dispatch a unit to my location, only creats a public safety issue. I can hear it now. Deputy you clearly new the operator of this vehicle that struck and killed this child was operating erratically. Yes. Deputy you had the means to stop this vehicle but instead you contacted another agency and waited for them to stop this car for you. Yes. Ok we will be coming after your agency and you as well for big $$ No more questions. Now if the local pd's want to have me stop the vehicle and call them to take it from there, great. Bad guy off the street and no paper work for me.


Posted by: j809

Quote:
Do you have a copy of that list so we can all see it? or can you tell me a specific place or person who I can get it from, so I can post it here?
If you have to ask you obviously have no clue and no Ch90 book. The RMV has a central office where you can pickup forms and CH90 books. The Sheriffs are on the DO NOT give list that is located at that facility.


Posted by: USMCTrooper

Quote:
Originally Posted by jo @ Mon 06 Dec, 2004
Jimbo I agree with you if someone is speeding or has a revoked reg I really do not care and probably would not even notice. Following an erratic operator while on duty in a cruiser, calling this into a local pd, waiting for them to dispatch a unit to my location, only creats a public safety issue. I can hear it now. Deputy you clearly new the operator of this vehicle that struck and killed this child was operating erratically. Yes. Deputy you had the means to stop this vehicle but instead you contacted another agency and waited for them to stop this car for you. Yes. Ok we will be coming after your agency and you as well for big $$ No more questions. Now if the local pd's want to have me stop the vehicle and call them to take it from there, great. Bad guy off the street and no paper work for me.

The same argument could be said for Parole officers, tree wardens, fire fighters, the FBI, ATF, DEA, an ambulance or how about an out of state cruiser? They are all capable of observing erratic operation and some of them even (get this) also drive cruisers. Should the above list also take matters into their own hands or refer the matter to the responsible agency of jurisdiction? The reason we draw lines is so that people know where to start and end.


and your answer to the lawyer is Yes, I did because under Comm v Leblanc, Comm v Baez and Comm v Howe....its all I could do. At least I tried.


Posted by: Otto

Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCTrooper @ Mon December 06, 2004 7:48 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jo @ Mon 06 Dec, 2004
Jimbo I agree with you if someone is speeding or has a revoked reg I really do not care and probably would not even notice. Following an erratic operator while on duty in a cruiser, calling this into a local pd, waiting for them to dispatch a unit to my location, only creats a public safety issue. I can hear it now. Deputy you clearly new the operator of this vehicle that struck and killed this child was operating erratically. Yes. Deputy you had the means to stop this vehicle but instead you contacted another agency and waited for them to stop this car for you. Yes. Ok we will be coming after your agency and you as well for big $$ No more questions. Now if the local pd's want to have me stop the vehicle and call them to take it from there, great. Bad guy off the street and no paper work for me.

The same argument could be said for Parole officers, tree wardens, fire fighters, the FBI, ATF, DEA, an ambulance or how about an out of state cruiser? They are all capable of observing erratic operation and some of them even (get this) also drive cruisers. Should the above list also take matters into their own hands or refer the matter to the responsible agency of jurisdiction? The reason we draw lines is so that people know where to start and end.


and your answer to the lawyer is Yes, I did because under Comm v Leblanc, Comm v Baez and Comm v Howe....its all I could do. At least I tried.
Are you suggesting that those cases state that a deputy has no authority to conduct a m/v stop? They clearly state that he has the authority to make the stop. If he doesn't, and someone is injured, he could be held responsible.

If a deputy answered as you suggest, he would be committing perjury.


Posted by: jimbo

Jo, Otto - i doubt anyone here disrespects deputies who earned their job -- it's the part timers who merely held a campaign sign to slip into a deputy position that many of us raise an eyebrow towards - as we all know - that is all it takes in many cases in this state to be appointed as a deputy sheriff. after being appointed they go through a part time "academy" on a Tuesday and Wednesday night and then proclaim they went through a "police academy" - what B.S !!! they neither earned or were trained to be police officers
- does anyone in this state really doubt that some publicity hungry sheriff will appoint these same politically connected hacks to a traffic enforcement team if Ch 90 restrictions in this state are relaxed to include sheriffs departments ????? until the politics are eliminated from sheriffs departments, only police should enforce the law - PERIOD<


Posted by: jo

USMCTROOPER Parole Officers, Tree Wardens, Fire Fighters, Ambulance and out of state cruisers lack the authority to make a motor vehicle stop. Not sure what boundaries are set for F.B.I., A.T.F. and D.E.A. Sheriffs do not lack the authority, in fact it is supported by the cases you posted.

Jimbo I have no respect myself for political appointees. I also know that in western mass every small town appoints the cousin, nephew relative of a selectmen or friend. In my county there are only three civil service departments and only five 24 hour a day departments. There is just as much " sign holding " in those little pd's as in the sheriffs office. Our sheriff is a retired Lt with MSP. He requires that his deputies have the equivalent training of that as a local police officer. Most of his deputies are retired police officers, have transferred here for the money or are local part time police chiefs. Out of all the deputies only two are issued citation books and both of which have been local police officers for years. If your are from out east the term part time police chief may sound odd. But as you can see it would not be difficult to have the same or better training as our local police in this area. I again want to state that I have no desire to take over the roll of our local police but I would and have not shied away from preserving the peace in our county. Our sheriff also makes the distinction between the roll of his deputies and his correctional officers. Not that one is better than the other but the rolls are separated.


Posted by: Otto

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo @ Tue December 07, 2004 1:21 am
Jo, Otto - i doubt anyone here disrespects deputies who earned their job -- it's the part timers who merely held a campaign sign to slip into a deputy position that many of us raise an eyebrow towards - as we all know - that is all it takes in many cases in this state to be appointed as a deputy sheriff. after being appointed they go through a part time "academy" on a Tuesday and Wednesday night and then proclaim they went through a "police academy" - what B.S !!! they neither earned or were trained to be police officers- does anyone in this state really doubt that some publicity hungry sheriff will appoint these same politically connected hacks to a traffic enforcement team if Ch 90 restrictions in this state are relaxed to include sheriffs departments ????? until the politics are eliminated from sheriffs departments, only police should enforce the law - PERIOD<
Police departments do the same thing with police departments. It is called the R/I Police Academy. To be consistent in your argument, you should be condemning a whole lot of police departments also. But I never hear it.

I agree, there is no need for sheriffs to have Ch 90 teams. However if a deputy sees a danger to the public, he should act on it.

Could you please cite the language in Ch 90 that excludes sheriffs form enforcing it.


Posted by: thumper2168

until the Sheriff's are required to a take a Statewide uniform exam not all other law enforcement personnel will respect them. As long as you have that one or two idiots that paid his way in and... "I took the test, I didn't pay my way" doesn't cut it because the other three out of ten did. Technically they have some powers due to the way the laws are written. But the liberal peoples of massachusetts will never allow themselves to be overpoliced..... Why do you think that we will NEVER have a state RICO law, why the FEDS will never get Police powers....
Whether it is almost every Deputy or very few, the perception among hard working police officers that sweated out the academy, ate mac+cheese to make it through because they had to quit there job and had no $$$, and the ones that had to go to the local church to get clothes for their kids because they wanted to become a police officer. No amount of writing will ever change that. These police officers did it the right way. They have my respect. And until the Sheriff's get a uniformed testing process that has nothing to do with hack, $$ and politicians they will not get the town, city or Troopers respect.
PANACHE: Have a merry x-mas, and yes I didn't mention getting piss and shit thrown at me while walking the third tier at Walpole because you must have been there.
FPD
All he had to do is not be an ass. The gun firing incident is a perfect example of why wannabees should never be allowed to buy their badge!!!!


Posted by: jimbo

in the area of the state i live in, fewer and fewer police departments have part timers - we have not had them for at least 10 yrs and even the small communities in this area do not hire new ones. soon, through attrition, they will be gone. too much liability. when we had them, part timers basically walked a beat or rode with a full timer - they never went to a call alone. the R/I "academy" is nothing like a full time academy


Posted by: Corr. Lieutenant

Hi All,

I'm the Lieutenant who has been doing his "vinyl siding". I have never visited this forum and never posted before and don't appreciate being insulted on it. SO Belle"CHICK". Why don't you use some of those stellar investigative powers and find out who your typing to first.

Oh, and by the way, you don't work for a "major" department as you posted somewhere earlier, Worcester, Springfield and Boston are major departments. (See, I do my homework) everytime you heros drive up the street at 100 mph with lights and sirens blaring (like a Deputy Sheriff through Fitchburg) just because theres a cat stuck in a tree somewhere, you look like idiots. Maybe thats why every other department in town got the funding they wanted during the last town elections and you didn't.

Remember, we are in the "crossroads of New England" not lower Manhatten on 9-11.

In closing, I believe I'll "be around" for a LOT longer than you think.

Lets just leave this dead where it belongs. I only fired one round, I still have a full magazine with 2 more mags in my duty belt.

Posted Tue Dec 07 2004, 15:59:

To All,

Sorry about the previously posted rant but I needed to get that off of my chest.

Anyway I, for one, do not want to be compared to police officers, Troopers, etc. I chose my profession and take it as seriously as you all take yours. It wouldn't bother me one bit either way if the Sheriff's office had Ch. 90 or not. We do need limited powers because we do deal with the public on an as needed basis. We should at the very least, be able to write traffic violations in the interest of public safety, or stop to help a stranded motorist who may need medical attention. Some of you need to realize that there is a lot more to being in law enforcement than speed traps and tail lights. But I guess that comes with age and experience.

But for some of you to say you don't respect us is wrong. I know many police officers and troopers who were former co's and they understand what the job is like. I doubt any of you who are openly criticizing the "rank and file" corrections officers have even had a tour of a correctional facility. Where do you think all the "bad guys" go when you all arrest them.......Walpole?.....Concord....? NOPE The WCJ/HOC Like the dirtbags who killed Tpr. George Hanna and the scum who killed Chief Mortell. They don't go to a state facility for years in some cases.

I think it would be a great idea if we could set up a van to pick up prisoners at the local departments. All the more cops on the street and a better relationship. But thats yet to be seen.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corr. Lieutenant @ Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:29 pm
Hi All,

I'm the Lieutenant who has been doing his "vinyl siding". I have never visited this forum and never posted before and don't appreciate being insulted on it.
Well, obviously if you are a Corrections Lt , then you are not the Lt I was referring to. He was a civilian who was a P/T Deputy "Lt". Why don't YOU use your investigative powers to figure that out.

Quote:
SO Belle"CHICK".
Wow. What a quick wit you have. I am quite sure that the staff and inmates alike fear your acid tongue. If you're a Lt, how moronic are the Officers?


Quote:
Oh, and by the way, you don't work for a "major" department as you posted somewhere earlier, Worcester, Springfield and Boston are major departments. (See, I do my homework) everytime you heros drive up the street at 100 mph with lights and sirens blaring (like a Deputy Sheriff through Fitchburg) just because theres a cat stuck in a tree somewhere, you look like idiots. Maybe thats why every other department in town got the funding they wanted during the last town elections and you didn't.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I have never driven lights and siren for any call that didn't necessitate it. Why don't you let police officers decide what calls need lights and siren. I am trained to decide that. You are not. Also, your definition of a major PD needs some work.


Quote:
Some of you need to realize that there is a lot more to being in law enforcement than speed traps and tail lights. But I guess that comes with age and experience.
Age, I'll give you maybe. Experience? How much experience do you have as a Police Officer? Not a C/O, a COP? Oh, that's right. None.

Quote:
But for some of you to say you don't respect us is wrong. I know many police officers and troopers who were former co's and they understand what the job is like. I doubt any of you who are openly criticizing the "rank and file" corrections officers have even had a tour of a correctional facility.
Sorry, but I've NEVER criticized Rank and File C/O's. Just Deputies who got their jobs by being buddies with the Sheriff. And yes, I worked at a Correctional Facility.


Posted by: Otto

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumper2168 @ Tue December 07, 2004 2:46 pm
until the Sheriff's are required to a take a Statewide uniform exam not all other law enforcement personnel will respect them.

Technically they have some powers due to the way the laws are written.

Whether it is almost every Deputy or very few, the perception among hard working police officers that sweated out the academy...

The gun firing incident is a perfect example of why wannabees should never be allowed to buy their badge!!!!
There are many police departments full of police officers who never took a statewide test, or any test at all. I guess they are unworthy of respect. Somebody must have been a friend of the chief, I guess.

Technically, all police officers have powers due to the way the laws are written. It must all be a mistake.

The gun firing incident... I guess you are referring to an unintentional discharge. If I were a betting man, I would wager that the SP and probably every PD in this state has had someone who unitentionally discharged a firearm. I'll also bet that many happened inside the PD. Take a look behind all the pictures, file cabinets, etc.. All wannabee's.

Posted Tue December 07, 2004 5:14 pm:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo @ Tue December 07, 2004 3:17 pm
in the area of the state i live in, fewer and fewer police departments have part timers - we have not had them for at least 10 yrs and even the small communities in this area do not hire new ones. soon, through attrition, they will be gone. too much liability. when we had them, part timers basically walked a beat or rode with a full timer - they never went to a call alone. the R/I "academy" is nothing like a full time academy
There are other areas of the state that use them extensively. I was one for many years. There was usually only one other officer on duty. I rode alone, initiated my own work, answered the same calls and did everything the full-timers did.

In fact, I had more training than most, if not all the full-timers. Not that it made me any better than them, and I know that isn't typical. But it is why I resent the hell out what some people say about sheriffs.

I never hear PO's getting lumped together because of some of the morons or criminals with police badges. I know they are not the norm. But if it is a sheriff everyone condemns him. The ones that do it here the most, don't seem to be the ones that post anything negative about a PO.


Posted by: truthbetold

bbelichick speak on behalf of yourself. There are alot of po's that respect the sheriffs department deputies and their job. In fact our department relies on their k-9's quite frequently. You are speaking for p.o.'s across the state and i would bet that their are more that respect them than you think. I for one as a po respect them. I am speaking on behalf of myself here. I am truely ashamed at officers like you that generalize anothers profession. This is an insecurity obviously of yours. I have had alot of dealings with them and they seem qualified and professional. LEt me ask you this. Why is it if they are not trained or underqualified to serve with such a hero like you but they are on regional drug task forces, gang units, and swat teams with local policemen? Are they that much of a liability that the local law enforcement didn't fight this. As long as they are not taking my job as a po i say keep up the great work. you have your job i have mine. It is a shame that as departments we can't just respect each other. I work along side 2 deputy sheriff (part timers) and they seem to have a grasp of the job.


Posted by: jimbo

why the animosity ?? Simply do your own job and be proud of it. I failed to point out in my last post that despite maybe attending the same Reserve Academy as Deputies - it is the part time police officers, NOT the deputies, that gain experience and skills from respondibg to crimes in progress - Police do 9-1-1 and traffic enforcement - deputuies do not. when i worked for the State DOC, we were proud of our job and never sought to play policeman. I suspect that the few members of Sheriffs Departments, as seen on this board, that want additional "powers" simply could not cut the mustard to be police so they try to slide in by holding campaign signs and then seek police powers. If it is not your responsibility to enforce traffic laws, and it isn't, why seek it ? Do what you were hired to do or take the police exam, go through the screening and then a full time police academy if you want to play policeman...get a life

Posted Wed December 08, 2004 1:16 am:

why the animosity ?? Simply do your own job and be proud of it. I failed to point out in my last post that despite maybe attending the same Reserve Academy as Deputies - it is the part time police officers, NOT the deputies, that gain experience and skills from respondibg to crimes in progress - Police do 9-1-1 and traffic enforcement - deputuies do not. when i worked for the State DOC, we were proud of our job and never sought to play policeman. I suspect that the few members of Sheriffs Departments, as seen on this board, that want additional "powers" simply could not cut the mustard to be police so they try to slide in by holding campaign signs and then seek police powers. If it is not your responsibility to enforce traffic laws, and it isn't, why seek it ? Do what you were hired to do or take the police exam, go through the screening and then a full time police academy if you want to play policeman...get a life


Posted by: truthbetold

jimbo i have read alot of your past posts and i am amused that most of them are in the sheriffs rooms. you are very adament about the deputies and their powers. I came here with interest in an article of the fitchburg pd against worcester county sheriffs department. I was curious about all the hoopla i r3ead in the herald. I came across you and the venom you spew about deputies. I think that at one point you wanted to be one but you were shunned. Or you couldn't pass the simple exam. did you donate 500 dollars and still not get on. i think you have deputy envy. you probably work for a real small department because you can't get on a large one. most of us po's don't really care what another agency wants to do, is doing, or plans to do. we worry about our agency. if you care so much go dig up Wyatt Earps (unsure speeling) bones and give him a good kicking. For god sakes give it a rest on ticket books, chapter 90, part time/full time deputies, who gives a crap. I take it you are a rebel here yet in your department you are a yes sir, no sir, shoeshiner. come off your self rightouesness ego trip and join the real world. Most of us in the le world work together. this is not about a pissing contest. It is about respect and i have none for you. a fellow officer!


Posted by: Wolfman

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthbetold @ Wed 08 Dec, 2004 01:22
jimbo i have read alot of your past posts and i am amused that most of them are in the sheriffs rooms....It is about respect and i have none for you. a fellow officer!
At least not ALL of his posts are in the Sheriff forums. Where did you say you work again?

I still smell a rat...


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by VOR @ Wed Dec 08, 2004 2:46 am
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthbetold @ Wed 08 Dec, 2004 01:22
jimbo i have read alot of your past posts and i am amused that most of them are in the sheriffs rooms....It is about respect and i have none for you. a fellow officer!
At least not ALL of his posts are in the Sheriff forums. Where did you say you work again?

I still smell a rat...
You didn't see? He's a "police officer." He mentions "us police officers" or "most of us PO's" in just about every post.

He MUST be a cop.



Posted by: truthbetold

vor you say you smell a rat? why is that because I don't share your views? I think you smell your upper lip and i am sure it smells like @#$%. All that negative verbal garbage that is passed here. I actually work for a mid sized department in northestern mass. there are 52 officers right now with a very high arrest rate and very prestigous. I have been on the force going into my 12th year so experience is not an issue. You see again i think it is just ignorant to think that WE as po's are better than any other le agency. and yes i use po because I AM ONE. vot you are another superhero who comes here and posts I smell a rat. very extensive vocabulary. your sentence is well put together. i have a bachelors in psychology, masters in c.j. and i am currently in law school. If you want to know my lsats just ask for all those non believers. so keep smelling a rat and i am not sorry i dont conform to your little cult of sheriff bashers. :P oh and you can you make me want to


Posted by: USMCTrooper

Over the weekend SP Springfield recvd 4 complaints of threats and harrassment by an individual. The complaints were referred to the local PD of jurisdiction with the 2 agencies working together-the local PD responding to the trailer park, yes a trailer park and the MSP to check on the validity of a consistent claim made by the threatening party in this case. The claim was made that he is a deputy sheriff and has access to a gun. One call to personnel today cleared it up. He is an honorary with " no authority given to him by the sheriff". The employee in personnel was very concerned and extremely cooperative. The request was made for the Sheriff himself to reel this guy in or yank his honorary appointment. I was assured it would be handled because "the sheriff doesn't want this kind of trouble and thats why he collected and stopped giving out badges-they were being flashed everywhere and we were getting complaints". What shocked me was a reference made about the way things are done out East. Even this place knows what goes on out there. This Sheriff does his job, refuses to get his hands on citation books and will not allow any type of Ch 90. If this guy can run what has been called the most successful yet strict jails in Massachusetts with treatment programs and rehabilitation par none-without trying to be like the POLICE, why can't Middlesex, Norfolk, Plymouth, Essex, Worcester, etc etc. Its interesting we always here the same names banted about. When was the last time you ever heard Hampshire or Franklin mentioned? Norfolk sheriff was on the Discovery Channel last night touting their new command center (painted up Metropolitan Law Enforcement Council) and the Captain said " we have a full service search and rescue team, SWAT, K-9 available to all the cities and towns in OUR area". OUR area????


and PS if you actually read Comm V Howe, Leblanc & Baez you will see that they outline what can and cannot be done outside jurisdictions. In Leblanc alone, a PD arrest for OUI made outside of their jurisdiction was ruled invalid. So when some slimbag defense lawyer tries to imply failure to act, you remind them of what boundaries are set regarding jurisdiction. Only a dumb lawyer would ask a question without first knowing the answer but we can always hope!


Posted by: Otto

Quote:
Originally Posted by USMCTrooper @ Wed December 08, 2004 12:21 pm
and PS if you actually read Comm V Howe, Leblanc & Baez you will see that they outline what can and cannot be done outside jurisdictions. In Leblanc alone, a PD arrest for OUI made outside of their jurisdiction was ruled invalid. So when some slimbag defense lawyer tries to imply failure to act, you remind them of what boundaries are set regarding jurisdiction. Only a dumb lawyer would ask a question without first knowing the answer but we can always hope!
You are correct about LeBlanc. The court ruled a police officer acted outside his jurisdiction. Therefor, if asked why he did not stop a m/v outside his jurisdiction, his proper answer is, "I am not authorized."

In Howe and Baez, the court said that the deputy sheriff has authority to stop a m/v and issue a citation anywhere in his county.

If YOU actually read these cases maybe you will understand.

Don't interpret this to mean I think sheriffs should be patrolling anyone's town or highway. I do not.

However, when you close your eyes and deny clearly established case law, you do yourself a dis-service.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthbetold @ Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:37 am
i have a bachelors in psychology, masters in c.j. and i am currently in law school.



Posted by: jimbo

"NONtruth" - i work in a municipal police department that has over 100 full time officers - no part timers. you appear to be a politically appointed hack. How can anyone with veracity say the State Police are "not a major department" ???!!!?? you, non truth be told ,are a political hack deputy that was appointed to your job because of your ability to hold a campaign sign - you are obviously not a real police officer - if you are - you are extremely ignorant. Police do 9-1-1 and crimes in progress - deputies do not - leave police work to police officers and simply do your own job ... if that is not enough for you - take the police exam - i doubt a yahoo like you would pass the psychological exam though... get a life and grow up. You seem to have an inferiority complex that lusts after "powers" that you cannot be trusted with. You seem to be the type of deputy that gives the good ones a bad name. police that i know respect the K9, C.O.s and Transportation Deputies - we do not respect the wannabes that try to slip in by being political kiss a*%#'s because they can't make it on merit - you know.... guys like you


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo @ Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:10 pm
"How can anyone with veracity say the State Police are "not a major department" ???!!!??
Why, just because they are the largest Police Department in New England?

P.S. I am not sure if they covered the term "veracity" in his Bachelors, Masters or JD programs.


Posted by: jimbo

"NON truth be told "- you are nuts if you think i am a disgruntled wannabe deputy - i am a civil service municipal police officer. Before this i was a civil service Department of Correction sergeant, before that i was a civil service state campus police sergeant - i earned those posistions and went through several full time acadamies - i never held a sign, like i suspect you did, to get a job. You lost all credibility when you proclaimed that the Massachusetts State Police were "not a major police department ." If you don't realize that the M.S.P. is a major police department, then you are per se ignorant. Isn't there a politician's campaign sign that you should be holding right now ??? Real police respond to crimes in progress and 9-1-1 calls - wannabes like you ,who try to slip in a back door because you can't pass the test , psychological , back ground test or full police academy don't. You, "truthbetold", strike me as being a wannabe police officer who lacks what it takes.


Posted by: Corrections Officer

Hi to all,

Allow me to introduce myself as a WCSO corrections officer. I have worked at this facility for approximately 12 years. During this time I have never held a sign nor have I participated in any fund raising event for Sheriff Flynn. I have gone to work with pride and have attempted to educate myself through academia and literature review. I do not approve or condone the political practices that have plagued my department.

It is completely evident that little respect is extended to Sheriff’s departments, which is completely understandable considering the political element that governs these institutions. This brings me to my intended purpose for responding to your threads.



The following is a scenario not to be misunderstood as a personal desire.

Hypothetical Scenario:

Sheriff Glodis revamps the Sheriff Office, including:

1. Hiring exams
2. Psychological Exams
3. Background Checks
4. Integrated Police/Corrections Academy (accredited by the MCJTC)
5. Disbanding all $25 Deputy Badges and Titles (i.e. Commonwealth State Ethics Commission’s letter to Sheriff Marshall)
6. Uniform Union contracts


My intent is to determine whether a scenario similar to this would change agency opinions or is the subject of deputy sheriffs conducting mv stops non-negotiable; police make mv stops/ deputy sheriffs watch inmates?

Again, I do not wish to ever pass as a police officer nor do I wish patrol streets. I chose my profession, limitations didn’t make the choice. I am simply curious what limitations, as police representatives, you have placed on the modern deputy sheriff.


Posted by: truthbetold

first of all jimbo i have never stated that the state police was not a major department you ignoramous. i have never posted the sort. I see that what you do here is try to discredit others to make yourself look good. you try to be a bully. I also have a civil service appointment. I am here to voice my opinion but i guess the gustapo jimbo, vor, and bbelichick aka the three stooges don't like my opinion. You see I am not ignorant like you three amigos. I feel that the deputies have a job to do so let them do it. By the way the baez case stated that the sheriffs department was right in the traffic stop (defective equiptment tail light) and citation, but wrong in the fact that the arrest wasn't warranted because there was no breach of peace. If you read the whole case law you would understand this. That is the difference she (the officer) according to the sjc should have towed said vehicle issued citation and do not arrest. issue a summons to court. A police officer does not need a breach of peace to pursue an arrest. comm vs howe stated the powers of ds during an oui stop. this enabled them the power of arrest due to the breach of peace.


Posted by: PearlOnyx

J809,

Thank you for being completley ignorant. Referring to:

"If you have to ask you obviously have no clue and no Ch90 book. The RMV has a central office where you can pickup forms and CH90 books. The Sheriffs are on the DO NOT give list that is located at that facility."

You are correct, I have no Chapter 90 Book. I am a Deputy Sheriff, who happens to work a full 40 hours, inside the facilities, where I belong. I work as a Reserve in my home city, where I do a detail or two a week. The Sheriff's Department I work for strongly discourages Chapter 90 enforcement, issues no books, and to my knowledge has no interest in doing so. I don't work details from them any longer any way. As far as the PD, I've only been working there for a few months, and am pretty much confined to details, so don't do any work there.

I am still looking for that list as well. That was my original question. You replied stating what was on that list, not answering my original question of where I could get the list, unless you consider that a "form" that I could pick up at the RMV Central Office.


Posted by: Wolfman

TBT, where exactly did you go to college? I'd love to get a degree somewhere where capitalization and sentence structure is waived. It would make the whole process so much easier. I think I saw an ad once with Sally Struthers expounding the virtues of some correspondence college...could that be the one?

Regardless, you are having a hard time convincing me that you're a real cop instead of the latest in an incessant series of shitstirrers who seem strangely attracted to this site. Maybe it's the fulfillment of some deep-seated masochistic yearning? Come on, I'm just a lowly former copier repairman and self-employed computer nut, it shouldn't be that tough.

BTW, "gestapo" is spelled with an "e", not a "u". There were a few others in there but we really don't want to go there now, do we?


Posted by: PearlOnyx

Short of the occasional post here or there, this thread seems to have nothing to do with the "Powers of Sheriff's/Deputy Sheriff's". It is now closed.




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