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Main Page Police Departments Relax Recruit Standards
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: kwflatbed

Officials Hope Change Will Attract Well-Rounded Officers

BOSTON -- Police departments around the country are relaxing age and fitness standards, forgiving minor criminal convictions and easing other requirements to relieve shortages in their ranks and find officers who are wiser, more worldly and cooler-headed in a crisis.

In recent years, St. Petersburg and Tampa, Fla., dropped the need for a two-year college degree if the candidate has military or law enforcement experience. Oakland, Calif., is no longer disqualifying applicants for minor, long-ago drug convictions or gang involvement. And Boston this spring raised the upper age limit for recruits from 32 to 40.

"Being well-rounded, having some life experience, makes for a better person and patrolman -- someone who is coming up on a conflict who is mature and measured, as opposed to some young kid right out of school," said Boston City Councilor Michael Flaherty, who proposed the age-limit increase.
The relaxation of standards -- a trend that emerged in Associated Press interviews and reviews of policies in 50 cities -- has been prompted in large part by a dire need for police recruits.

A federally funded study last spring by the Police Executive Research Forum, a Washington advocacy group for police chiefs and commissioners, found that 10 percent of the nation's police departments had severe shortages of officers.

New York City is looking to hire 3,000 officers. The Los Angeles police want 1,000 more cops; Houston needs 600; Washington is short 330; Phoenix is down about 200; and the Boston force is about 100 officers below its 2000 level.

Among the reasons: The strong economy is offering other job possibilities, aging cops are retiring, starting salaries are low, and the Iraq war is drawing off both would-be police recruits and police officers who are in the National Guard and Reserves.

"There's a real demand for really good people, and there's a limited supply," said Chuck Wexler, director of the Police Executive Research Forum. "Cities are having to take a second look at their recruitment standards."

Full Story: http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news...51/detail.html

Posted by: Sniper

Now I can see small MisD offenses and SOME 94c stuff but GANGS ??????????? Come on now.

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

There goes the neighborhood!!

Posted by: KozmoKramer

Quote:

And Boston this spring raised the upper age limit for recruits from 32 to 40.

Huh? Isn't the applicant line for the BPD like a mile and a half long???
Why on earth did they have to lower their recruiting standards?

Posted by: Killjoy

Just what I want on the force: an uneducated, old, out of shape, ex-gang member, who did some drugs when they were younger...sounds like a home run!

Posted by: Inspector

The problem is that while the line for candidates is long there is a quick weeding out when you begin to look at the candidates. Mental and physical abilities, along with the common sense and strong desire to serve are hard traits to find in the majority of candidates. "Many will come but few will be chosen." If our communities are to have truly professional police officers then they must begin to pay the qualified candidates accordingly. It is true that many officers may make $100,000/yr or more but they must sacrifice many hours away from their families to do so. In many areas the pay and opportunities for extra money are very limited and hence it becomes even harder to recruit qualified candidates. The day when all a person had to do is be tougher than the bad guys to be a cop are over. Brain and physical ability are requirements for today's law enforcement officers and it is getting more difficult to find this combination as police jobs compete with other less demanding jobs.

Posted by: Delta784

Although I can't imagine putting up with the bullshit of a police academy now (I'm 41), I've also been on the job for nearly 20 years. I've always thought 32 was a bit too young of a cutoff but there should be a maximum, as it would be ridiculous to have 64 year-olds graduating the academy and retiring the next year (which happened in Boston several years back).

I can see forgiving minor misdemeanor convictions and past marijuana use, having a 40 year-old cutoff (you can still get 20+ years out of them), and especially substituting military experience for education, but physical fitness standards should not be relaxed.

Of course, is there really a need for any of the above in Massachusetts, as long as the line for the civil service exam is longer than most marriages?

Posted by: adroitcuffs

Further evidence of the contributions to the demise of our society...

We lower the standards to meet the deviants of society. I'm in agreement that the age cutoff of 32 -36 is too young, especially if you have a candidate coming out of the military who may be more physically fit than the average bear. Convictions and gang activity??? When I was a kid, I knew I wanted to be a cop so I stayed out of trouble 'cause I knew I wouldn't be getting a job if I got arrested. I realize not everyone knows what they want to do from a young age but still...

"It's okay, Johnny. If you want to hang with the homies every night and smoke some pot with 'em, you go right ahead. No need to worry about affecting your future career choices, just be careful that you aren't the one holding the gun in the drive-by..."

Posted by: masscopguy

I think if a 50 year old can pass the exact same physical standards as a 25 year old recruit he or she should have a shot at the job.

It is good to have college educated officers but I don't think substituting 2 years of military service in place of an Associates Degree is lowering the standards.

Posted by: justanotherparatrooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

Just what I want on the force: an uneducated, old, out of shape, ex-gang member, who did some drugs when they were younger...sounds like a home run!

Why not? we elect them to office!

Posted by: smilly217

For Boston wouldn't it make sense to hire outside the city rather than lowering standards, just so that you can hire someone who lives in the city?
This nonsense about them having to "forgive" people for past issues. Some people make mistakes and they should be forgiven, but why hire some idiot who's been a screwup, and keep an out of city kid who's squared away out of a job? There's probably some screwup who wants to be a cop and his father is a politician. Just what we need are more political hacks on the job. I think that the muni's filled that quota during the merger didn't they?

Posted by: HousingCop

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilly217

For Boston wouldn't it make sense to hire outside the city rather than lowering standards, just so that you can hire someone who lives in the city?

Move into the City of Boston, be a productive member of the community, know the streets, people & nuances of said city or neighborhood. Once you do that and pay taxes in Boston, then they may consider you. Until then, you don't vote or pay taxes there. Why should the city or politicians go out of their way to offer YOU a job?

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilly217

This nonsense about them having to "forgive" people for past issues. Some people make mistakes and they should be forgiven, but why hire some idiot who's been a screwup, and keep an out of city kid who's squared away out of a job? There's probably some screwup who wants to be a cop and his father is a politician. Just what we need are more political hacks on the job. I think that the muni's filled that quota during the merger didn't they?

Yeah, you're right. The "Screw-Up" lobby within the city populance has taken the reigns and now controls the City of Boston hiring practices. I'd rather see a kid who through having to live in the city has had a minor scrape or two, be given the job over Mr. Lilly Suburbanite who thinks because he's lived a sheltered existance, DESERVES the job over others.

Next time, since you're such a stellar candidate, get on your local suburban PD and then request a lateral transfer to Boston PD when they open the door up again. I am sure they're just dying to take you since you have all the answers to Boston's problems. You're probably sad you missed the boat when the Muni's refused to hire you too.

Posted by: TrickyDik

Quote:

Originally Posted by HousingCop

I'm someone who is interested in being a Boston Police Officer. I've never lived in Boston, and only lived in Mass until I was 6 months old. I've lived over the border in a southern NH town my entire life besides those 6 months. I went to college for 2 years and received an associates degree in criminal justice and currently have nearly 3 years of my 4 year enlistment with the Coast Guard completed.

I've travelled to Boston more times then I can count, I don't believe the culture of the people who live in Boston and those who live 45 minutes driving distance away is all that much different besides the fact that Boston is a city and certainly has higher numbers of diversity then where I grew up.

Why should I be forced to move to a town or city for 1 year prior to applying for a job? Wouldn't it be more logical for the employer to question and investigate the applicant to determine if they are more interested in just any job then a job specificly in that city?

In the end I don't understand the coorelation between paying taxes and voting in a certain town or city and receiving a job in that town or city. I understand that working for the government is a little different then working for a civilian company however I find it very odd that a city or town would chose to disqualify good candidates (who have some mixture of education, real life experience and even relavent job experience) because they haven't lived in that specific city or town for a year or more.

Just me but it seems rather back assward. I'm hoping that because I'm in the military that I'll be able to work out some testing and be waived for the residency rule.

Posted by: smilly217

As far as not being hired by munis, it's probably because I work for BPD. I got on the legitimate way. I don't want to have some idiot on my shift who got on because they "lowered" the standards. Even if you don't know the streets, you can learn them. There aren't too many people who live in the city who know all the areas and streets. So it really wouldn't matter if you lived there your whole life or moved in after the job. I started in an area that I was unfamiliar with (similar to an out of city officer) and I learned it quick. That's what happens when you take a job, you adapt.
What about a doctor, would you care if they lowered the standards for that too?

Plus I'm not asking politicians to go out of their way to offer an out of towner a job. I'm asking that they hire people who are the best qualified for the job. As a member of LE I would think you'd have the same approach. I live in the city, I don't do anything in the city, if I go shopping, eating or anything else, it's out of the city. So other than property tax, the businesses aren't profitting by me having to live in the city.

Posted by: alphadog1

Mass Training Council has eased the prescreening standards within the last ten years for being accepted into a municipal police academy. Look what we have...overweight and/or out of shape recruits entering the academy because there's no PT requirement (They also did away with the written portion of the prescreening). Then if they don't feel like running, they don't have too. When I was in the academy that was a one way ticket home. But now, we have kinder, gentler academies. I am afraid of what's next...

Posted by: Inspector

I wonder if we will soon see Massachusetts joining Santa Fe, NM who is asking permission to recruit non U.S. citizens. We do currently see the military recruiting them with a promise to grease citizenship.

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

I got buddies of mine that graduated from Lowell Police Academy which puts your BPD academy to shame. So they will actually bring in better cops there, it's about time.

Posted by: KozmoKramer

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphadog1

Look what we have...overweight and/or out of shape recruits entering the academy because there's no PT requirement.

My question is why that isn't addressed during the oral interview and used as a valid reason for disqualification.
"Mr. Joe Blow. What have you done to prepare yourself for a career in Law Enforcement?"
"OK, why then haven't you also prepared yourself physically?"

I find it incongruous that after an oral board (consisting of the Chief, a Lt. and a Sgt. or however a particular department constructs their oral boards) will confer, and considering the multitude of qualified and enthusiastic applicants, are going to decide on the slob.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by KozmoKramer

Hold on a minute, KOZ. If they can lower the standards for females and minorities, then what's wrong with fat white guys?

Posted by: KozmoKramer

Thats just it 94C, I say keep the standards high; and the same for all my man...

Posted by: badgebunny

Exactly Koz! Standards should be the same for all! Like I have always said train, train, train, and train some more. If you really want it you will do what you have to to make sure you pass every aspect of the hiring process. And you have got to be kidding me about hiring someone that has had past long ago gang involvement. Great idea....NOT!!!! WTF is wrong with some people? Someone please tell me and who's brilliant idea was this? Sorry I will get off my

now.

Posted by: soxrock75

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphadog1

Mass Training Council has eased the prescreening standards within the last ten years for being accepted into a municipal police academy. Look what we have...overweight and/or out of shape recruits entering the academy because there's no PT requirement (They also did away with the written portion of the prescreening). Then if they don't feel like running, they don't have too. When I was in the academy that was a one way ticket home. But now, we have kinder, gentler academies. I am afraid of what's next...

I actually posed the question about optional running in another thread after I heard about it at Plymouth in-service. The next day I asked one of the recruits and he said that running is definitely not optional for them. So, does that mean that it is optional at some of the other academies? If so, I cannot believe it.

Posted by: KozmoKramer

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgebunny

...And you have got to be kidding me about hiring someone that has had past long ago gang involvement. Great idea....NOT!!!! WTF is wrong with some people? Someone please tell me and who's brilliant idea was this? Sorry I will get off my

now.

You know something, your kinda cute when your angry BB...

Posted by: Andy0921

Quote:

Originally Posted by KozmoKramer

You know something, your kinda cute when your angry BB...

Posted by: justanotherparatrooper

BB is cute all the time

Posted by: badgebunny

Thanks guys....I did not mean to sound so angry....lol, but dumb people with dumb ideas make me mad!

Posted by: frapmpd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by KozmoKramer

My question is why that isn't addressed during the oral interview and used as a valid reason for disqualification.
"Mr. Joe Blow. What have you done to prepare yourself for a career in Law Enforcement?"
"OK, why then haven't you also prepared yourself physically?"

I find it incongruous that after an oral board (consisting of the Chief, a Lt. and a Sgt. or however a particular department constructs their oral boards) will confer, and considering the multitude of qualified and enthusiastic applicants, are going to decide on the slob.

Sadly Koz, many municipalities don't have police personnel involved in the interview process beyond the background investigations. Many towns have the selectmen or town council members as the appointing authority who conduct the interview. The result of that is the choice of candidates rests solely with the politicians, versus law enforcement personnel who may know a thing or two about who would/would not be a good hire.

Even if a panel of officers from the department makes a recommendation to the political entity about who is the "preferred candidate", that still allows for politics to get in the way and a not so ideal person to get appointed.

Posted by: Mitpo62

I actually had a councilman tell me "The purpose of civil service is to keep the politics out of the appointments." Yeah, right.

Posted by: Delta784

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitpo62

I actually had a councilman tell me "The purpose of civil service is to keep the politics out of the appointments." Yeah, right.

CS just makes things more inconvenient and uncomfortable for the politicos, while giving the illusion of fairness.

Posted by: Foxy85

I was told that the running in the academies has eased....Talking to a guy who went through the academy in 88' and another who went through back in 04', things have definetly changed.

back in 88', I was told that troopers ran the academies, and that running was an everyday occurance.

In 04' I was told by a Northbridge Officer that they had different running "groups" A,B,C,D.....You put yourself in whatever group fit you...eg, the ones that ran in A were the track stars, and B were the above average runners, C were average, and D were the tubbies in the academy. Thats the Boylston acdemy he spoke of. I'm not sure if its accurate, as it is second hand....BUt I can say this...

When I was in the Air Force, when it was a PT day with running, it was set up the same way....

But with the current PAT for Mass. what do you expect? You go any where else, and you have timed events eg, running, push ups and situps......Here....you have to run around a gym a few times....

Its the states own fault....

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

MSP SPA has dfifferent running groups too. Go figure. It's all the same everywhere.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by OutOfManyOne

MSP SPA has dfifferent running groups too. Go figure. It's all the same everywhere.

They are all expected to meet a standard, and pretty quickly the "slow group" is phased out.

Posted by: kttref

During my academy we always ran as "fast as the slowest person."...it was brutally slow.

While I was at the muni. academy the state was there, and one of the CSP instructors was telling me he was frustrated because they didn't have mandatory physical testing and some of the people were so clearly out of shape. He said day in and day out people were dropping out of the run or just walking and there was nothing he could do. He also said the workouts they did were a lot easier and a lot less emphasis was on physical ability.

I don't know...all and all I think this job should be a bit of a challenge to get into, but with how low the pay is and how crappy the schedule is no one is applying...what other options do PD's have? I'd hate to be a recruiter though...I'll just stick to the road...until I get pregnant

Posted by: Foxy85

While I support physical fitness, the job has become alot more academic....Most agencies PT you for an hour or so, then have you doing classroom training the rest of the day...whether its hands on DT or just sitting in a classroom.....typically the PT portion of an academy is low....

If you think about it...I mean how many foot pursuits do guys get in...Not saying everyone should be a tub of lard and 400 lbs....but not every officer needs to be a track start to be a good cop....There needs to be a middle ground....RIght now I think its about there....but kind of leaning towards the side of the scale that allows out of shape cops.....Just needs to swin g the other way a tad bit....

Not every cop can look like they peeled him off of the U.S. Marines poster....

Posted by: justanotherparatrooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxy85

While I support physical fitness, the job has become alot more academic....Most agencies PT you for an hour or so, then have you doing classroom training the rest of the day...whether its hands on DT or just sitting in a classroom.....typically the PT portion of an academy is low....

If you think about it...I mean how many foot pursuits do guys get in...Not saying everyone should be a tub of lard and 400 lbs....but not every officer needs to be a track start to be a good cop....There needs to be a middle ground....RIght now I think its about there....but kind of leaning towards the side of the scale that allows out of shape cops.....Just needs to swin g the other way a tad bit....

Not every cop can look like they peeled him off of the U.S. Marines poster....

BUT no cop should be so out of shape that he/she is a heart attack waiting to happen. Most cops dont have to shoot anyone theyre entire career either but they have a minimum qualification that theyre required to meet to be on the job. Being in decent shape reduces injuries, inspires confidence in themselves and theyre fellow officers as well as a certain amount of fear and respect from the public and crud they have to deal with.

Posted by: smilly217

Many academies have decreased the running because how often are you going to get into a 10 mile foot chase.... never
If you don't catch him within the first 100 yards, either he's a crack head that will go all night or you aren't going to catch him anyways.
Boston still runs a lot, some others have cut back. I think I heard a new officer say that their longest runs were about 12 miles. Now many academies work on strength and sprints. Which makes more sense. The academy is kinder/gentler on the people who came prepared because they spend so much time on the fat, out of shape fools that slipped through the cracks (politcal hacks?)

Posted by: kttref

Like Foxy said...there needs to be a happy medium.

But along those same lines - getting people back in shape, after being on the job for however long, can cause issues too. My PD is trying to create nutrition workshops, group workouts, and height/weight requirements. We'll see how that goes.

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