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Main Page Should Special/PT/Reserve POs Be Covered if KIA/Injured?
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: LenS

The news story about the Call Firefighter who was KIA and received no benefits from the town raised this thought in my head. I expect it to be controversial.

If a part-time, reserve, special, auxiliary PO (working for the town or donating their time) is seriously injured or killed in the line of duty, should they be covered by the town with some sort of insurance/pension for widows/orphans? That is the question.

When I was a Special/Reserve PO for my town, the chief told me flat out that the town wouldn't cover us for any injury (or worse) in any way. I used to donate probably 3-400 hours/year plus work details/shifts when needed (only if no Regular PO took them) back in the day when we were really used to augment the PD. I spent 17 years doing this and wouldn't have quit except for the current chief who came into town (from outside) and disarmed us (we qualified 2x/year just like the FT POs, all had graduated MCJTC Reserve/Intermittent Academy, did In Service training monthly and were CPR/First Responders) and took away our powers of arrest. BTW, this chief wanted us to ride patrol with Regular POs, unarmed and with no powers! At that point over 50% of us (there were 35 PT officers) resigned.

The only officer to die on the job in our town was a Special PO (more than 30 yrs ago) who was struck by a car while directing traffic.

Some officers appreciated our help, while others hated our very existence! We weren't allowed to join MPA or anything else that could have given us legal/disability/life insurance benefits. I KNOW that the Regular POs here would never lift a finger to help one of the Special/Reserve POs if they were injured/killed on the job (unlike what the FD did in Lancaster). [To wit: A good friend was a full time PO here for 27+ years, forced retirement after getting rear-ended when he stopped the cruiser to let a lady cross the street. He was very seriously injured by the dashboard radar unit that went airborne, causing him brain damage, etc. The town only had $30K/employee insurance and he was left with over $100K in bills to pay himself!! The town did NOTHING to help him.]

As I understand it there is a state or federal law that provides something like $100K payment to widows/orphans if any LEO/Firefighter (I think FF is included) is killed on the job. But that doesn't go very far in today's world if someone leaves a Wife and kids (or they get nothing if he becomes disabled).

There is a move afoot to do something legislatively for Call Firefighters after the Lancaster incident.

What do folks here think? Should there be something similar for fallen PT LEOs?

Here's a link to the Firefighter story:
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news...78/detail.html

Posted by: VTCOP

I know the places here in VT where I worked part-time, and did some shifts for free I was covered by workmans comp for injuries. As far as death, I would have only been covered by the Fed. Governments fund.

Posted by: LenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by m613 @ Fri Nov 12, 02:51

I know the places here in VT where I worked part-time, and did some shifts for free I was covered by workmans comp for injuries. As far as death, I would have only been covered by the Fed. Governments fund.

Towns in MA did not have to carry WC or pay into SS, thus they didn't have them. [Laws may have changed some since the early 1990s, if so I am unaware of any changes.] Our town is "self insuring" on some insurance (vehicles, perhaps other areas as well). I know (from my friend who was injured maybe 6-7 years ago) about the $30K cap (and that was for FT POs only).

Posted by: VAP1773

If you are being compensated for you time they should cover you. If you are strictly volunteer then no, the town is clearly not offering any compensation for your service.

Posted by: texdep

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAP1773 @ Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:51 am

If you are being compensated for you time they should cover you. If you are strictly volunteer then no, the town is clearly not offering any compensation for your service.

ditto!

Posted by: mv577

Why should it matter if you're getting paid or not?

If you die in the line of duty while working within the realm of your assigned position, paid or not, then your family should be compensated just like any other Officers family would be.

Just because they serve their community without receiving a paycheck doesn't lessen the meaning of their service and time to the community.

Posted by: LenS

BTW, the town wouldn't cover us if we were injured/killed on the job REGARDLESS of whether we were volunteering or PAID to work a detail/shift!

Personally, I don't think it should matter if you are paid or not, but our town (and perhaps many others) doesn't discriminate . . . if you are not FT, you get screwed whether paid or not!

So back to the question . . . should the towns/state make some provision for a large payout or pension in case of death/critical injury for PT LEOs?

Posted by: frapmpd24

If an officer (special, P/T, Campus, F/T, SP, etc...) is killed or seriously injured on-duty their families should be compensated financially so they do not suffer because their got killed/seriously injured performing a service to the community. A service that the majority of the nieve public would not do and has no idea what the job is like, but criticizes like they are experts.

Regarding the Lancaster issue which got this topic going, I say it should be extended to all firefighters as well. There are many towns within the state that use strictly on-call or volunteers so lets not let them hang without any protection.

The state should establish a fund for this purpose. realistically, the amount of line of duty deaths in both professions within this state are not that staggering, although one is obviously too many in terms of losing a brother/sister officer or firefighter. The funding should be cut for the amenities that all the nitwits in prison, take the salary that Mitt and Kerry Healy donate, and other rediculous items money is spent on and use it to start a fund. If enough money is put in initially and invested the proper way or put in an account with a high return, it will increase until needed.

If each of the 351 cities/towns contributed an initial $10,000 plus the state chips in that would be a $3,510,000 to start off. Set a limit that can be provided to surviving spouses/family between $500,000 and $750,000 in an annuity. I mean, really cities and towns are spending a lot more money on much more absurd items. This could happen if the politicians just think it out

Posted by: massirishcop

I feel that some provision should be made to any volunteer, whether LE or FF who is killed or injured in the line of duty. Massachusetts should step up to the plate on this issue and make a law providing families with some sort of assistance. I'm a fulltime officer and don't have to really worry about my family being taken care of, however anyone in our field should have the same protection for doing this job.

Posted by: DODK911

I agree 100% that if a reserve PO, etc.. gets hurt or killed in the line of duty the town should pay. Im a full time Federal LEO and a Reserve in a town, so I rely on my full time insurance but I would like the town to do something if I was hurt or killed on there time. Now on the other hand if the State did put something in writing that the towns would have to be responsible, what is to stop the towns from getting rid of P/T, reserve, etc.. to not have to deal with the hastle or the worry. My .02

Posted by: USMCTrooper

Does anyone remember several years ago when a FT police officer was working a paid detail and died after suffering a heart attack. I don't clearly remember all the details but I think he left the detail site to help someone else and over exerted or something. Long and short of it, I remember the decision was landmark because when working for a contractor (which is what a paid detail is) you are not subject to death benefits from the city/town. If someone remembers this story better maybe you could find it and post the actual decision. Thanks-

Posted by: LenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by DODK911 @ Sun Nov 14, 17:39

I agree 100% that if a reserve PO, etc.. gets hurt or killed in the line of duty the town should pay. Im a full time Federal LEO and a Reserve in a town, so I rely on my full time insurance but I would like the town to do something if I was hurt or killed on there time. Now on the other hand if the State did put something in writing that the towns would have to be responsible, what is to stop the towns from getting rid of P/T, reserve, etc.. to not have to deal with the hastle or the worry. My .02

No doubt some towns would bail on the PT LEOs, but that is there loss! Due to "liability concerns" our town dumped the PT program (after it existed for about 40 years that I know of). Net result is that they now hire out-of-town LEOs to work road jobs or leave them unfilled. Large events like July 4th where we'd have 35-40 LEOs to cover the town celebration now have 5-10 LEOs (there are 4-5 PT LEOs now in a new program, all on civil service list awaiting FT appointments), 1/2 of which are FT paid and 1/2 freebies. They use lots of DPW horses and hope that people don't drive around them and endanger the 20K pedestrians.

I know of a number of other towns that dumped the program, afraid of liability. Actual deaths/critical injuries are statistically not significant. Even with no program, the towns are always subject to lawsuits by the fallen officer's family.

Posted by: LenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by stm4710 @ Sun Nov 14, 19:00

Operating a police or fire department with out LODD/Serious injurey benifets should be criminal

Agreed! But MGLs only require $30K life insurance for fallen LEO/FFs. So, that is exactly all that our town provides! I don't think many towns are much different.

I think if you folks check you'll find that most of your life insurance benefit is probably provided thru your union or associations, not thru your municipality.

Sad!

Posted by: stm4710

Quote:

I mean, really cities and towns are spending a lot more money on much more absurd items. This could happen if the politicians just think it out

The town of Danvers spends $28,000 on "specialy" trained collie to chase geese from the town parks.

Posted by: mpc111

USMCTROOPER wrote:

Quote:

Does anyone remember several years ago when a FT police officer was working a paid detail and died after suffering a heart attack. I don't clearly remember all the details but I think he left the detail site to help someone else and over exerted or something. Long and short of it, I remember the decision was landmark because when working for a contractor (which is what a paid detail is) you are not subject to death benefits from the city/town. If someone remembers this story better maybe you could find it and post the actual decision.

While I don't remember the case law specifically, my father-in-law suffered a heart attack while on a detail back in 1999 (F/T municipal Sgt). He survived only because two paramedics were on their lunch break across the street and saw him collapse. Shortly after that he went out on the heart bill (72%). The way it was explained to me was that, if he were to die of a heart related illness, my mother-in-law would still collect. Hope this helps.

Posted by: texdep

Quote:

Originally Posted by mv577 @ Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:00 am

Why should it matter if you're getting paid or not?

If you die in the line of duty while working within the realm of your assigned position, paid or not, then your family should be compensated just like any other Officers family would be.

Just because they serve their community without receiving a paycheck doesn't lessen the meaning of their service and time to the community.

The differance is simple. Parttime or reserve officers who are being paid are providing a required service for the municipality. That's why they're being paid. Volunteer officers (auxiliary) are being "allowed" to "play" cop. The municipality should not be liable for someone's "hobby"

Posted by: LenS

[quote="texdep @ Mon Nov 15, 17:22
The differance is simple. Parttime or reserve officers who are being paid are providing a required service for the municipality. That's why they're being paid. Volunteer officers (auxiliary) are being "allowed" to "play" cop. The municipality should not be liable for someone's "hobby"[/quote]

Yup, I was playing for 17 years when I was REQUIRED to "volunteer" 8-16 hours over the 4th of July town festivities each year. It was such "play" that I had to get special permission to "skip playing" one year so that I could join the Family in celebrating my late Mother-in-Law's 65th Birthday Party! The rest of the 30+ PT'rs "playing cop" all those years were just screwing around and not providing any real value to the town (when the crowds exceeded the total population of the town).

In many towns PT POs are REQUIRED to "play cop" by directing traffic every Sunday after church services, perform crowd and traffic control at parades, town functions. NONE of these are paid jobs for PT POs and they are required if you want to be allowed to work any paid details/shifts or keep the badge.

So if any of us got hurt or killed, just TS and our families should just "suck it up" and move on, right?

I won't apologize for my sarcasm here! I saw attitudes like yours from certain FT officers over the years. [The most hard headed FT officer I ever worked with retired after an on-the-job injury and operation ~18 months ago. Very interesting that one of the first things he did was apply for and get appointed as a PT PO so that he could suck up the details. It'll be interesting when they ask him to "play" for free during town events!] Wearing a badge makes anyone a target, even if all we are doing is "playing"! The perps won't care if they shoot/knife one of us or one of your FT gang . . . we all bleed red!

In my case, my late Chief demanded (he never asked, he was a Marine

) that I join the Special/Reserve Police. He required us to ride patrol with the FT POs (best training you can get), we worked the job just like the FT'rs only we weren't paid to be there. Neither my Wife nor my Family were thrilled with the risks that we took to "play cop", but some of us actually wanted to help our community while others were trying to get exposure/experience to get hired as FT'rs.

Posted by: spd722

I was told that 111f applies to part time officers. Chapter 41: Section 111F

Posted by: LenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by spd722 @ Mon Nov 15, 22:02

I was told that 111f applies to part time officers. Chapter 41: Section 111F

You made me look it up!

Well here it is:
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-111f.htm

Chapter 41: Section 111F Leave with pay for incapacitated employees

Section 111F. Whenever a police officer or fire fighter of a city, town, or fire or water district is incapacitated for duty because of injury sustained in the performance of his duty without fault of his own, or a police officer or fire fighter assigned to special duty by his superior officer, whether or not he is paid for such special duty by the city or town, is so incapacitated because of injuries so sustained, he shall be granted leave without loss of pay for the period of such incapacity . . .

Bottom line is if my "normal pay" from the town is $0.00, that is all that this section requires that they pay me while disabled. Sorry, this does nothing for the volunteer OR the PT that was hurt/killed working a paid shift/detail. This is indeed what my late Chief told me when he explained our liability and that if we were hurt, the town would pay us nothing (our "normal pay").

Posted by: JoninNH

Hey Tex, So just because someone is serving without compensation they are "playing cop" as a "hobby?" So, getting back to fire service, I guess you'd say that volunteer firefighters are just "playing fireman" as a "hobby?" I hope you think hard on it the next time a vounteer firefighter shows up on one of your MVAs or a volunteer rescue squad member pulls a little girl out of a wrecked car or a volunteer EMT saves a loved one... or the next time an auxiliary or reserve officer goes on-scene as your cover officer... Just because they are not getting paid does not mean they are any less professional, or devoted to saving lives as you are!!

Posted by: texdep

The fire service is a different situation. The call/vol firefighter is the primary resource for service in most circumstances and without them many towns would have NO fire response whatsoever. KIA provisions for these folks is an appropriate action by a town which would still be getting by cheap.

If you read my post again, I thought I was clear that the part-time/reserve officer should have provisions for coverage in the case of injury/KIA, again these officers are providing a required service.(In many communities in MA the would be no police presense if not for the use of pt/reserve)

Having been an auxiliary for a number of years I am well aware that auxiliary officers are proffessional and dedicated.(I'd like to think I was when I served as one.) And my life has now gone full circle aux-special-reserve-pt-ft-retired- associated with a aux unit again. I still believe that aux officers are not filling a need for the community so much as being able to pursue an interest(my apologies for prior post wording)

Yes, I agree that the community does recieve some benefit however, if all auxiliaries disappeared today I believe thare would be little or no community impact and as a taxpayer I would much rather see my taxes increase to support more paid officers,equipment,training,etc in my community not more volunteers.

(just for the record the community I live in uses part-time po's and is a 100% call fd)

Posted by: LenS

Tex, I don't see what you see the same way at all!

Call FFs (at least in my town) get paid a stipend each year (~$700 last I looked), get their gear provided and get training with the FT FFs. They still are "volunteers", but do get paid for most of their work.

I no longer remember how total volunteer FFs work, other than to say that they run fundraising drives to pay for equipment and may "tax" the residents/users of their services. 31 years ago I lived in CT which is very heavy on volunteer FDs, but I've never lived in MA where the FD was strictly volunteer (we have both paid FT and stipend Call FFs here).

Regarding PT POs, most places I'm aware of in MA use them extensively to augment their FT department, either for special events or all the time. Places like Wayland require LOTS of volunteer time to keep that badge. Back in the 1980s when they were trying to recruit me, they required a MINIMUM commitment of FOUR HOURS/WEEK, PLUS training, etc. Their Aux Dept was funded largely from two major fundraising drives/year. They had a trained dive team that gets involved in rescues anywhere in the area. They dressed the same as the FT POs and as far as I could tell, they were professional in every sense of the word.

In neighboring towns to me, PT cops are used to handle traffic at the various churches every Sunday, they are provided training, ride patrols and augment the FT POs for growing towns (the ones I am thinking of have serious crime problems as well). For someone to be committed to working probably 30-50 Sundays/year at no pay is a lot for someone who just wants to "play"! [I know that over my 17 years I got to resent the fact that I could NOT enjoy even 1 hour of the July 4th holiday any year with my Family/friends, that I HAD to be working more hours than I would have worked if my paying job didn't give us the holiday off! It does start to get old, especially if you are doing it for "play".]

I have a good friend (was a local FT PO) who went off to be chief in a small Northshore community which had only 8 officers FT and they had a like number of Special POs that they absolutely could not live without. The Specials worked shifts and were given full powers 24x7 and were essential to the community (the chief's words, not mine). The town just didn't have the budget to grow a FT PD as it probably should.

My town has grown 70% over the 30 years I've been here, yet the PD has not grown at all (they are +/- 1 FT PO from 30 years ago). Budget reductions/stagnation (thank you Prop 2-1/2) are the reason. We also hold some large community events that require a lot of POs and there is no budget for paying them (July 4th used to be a 3-day affair, closing off part of a state highway for part of that time, large parades, fireworks that drew 20K+, etc.). Oh yeah, we had to pay for all our gear unless it was a hand-me-down from one of the FT POs that outgrew it! Our town has NEVER had a budget for PT POs and the chiefs have NOT allowed any fundraising efforts.

Back in the late 1970s when I was doing some work at Yankee-Rowe Nuclear Power Plant, a co-worker struck and killed a dog on his way to the plant, so he dutifully called the Rowe PD to report it as required by law. He told me that the chief's Wife answered the phone and told him that she would tell her Husband when he returned from work (he worked full time at the paper mill nearby). How do you equate your belief in PT'rs "playing cop" with the realities that in Western MA, many of these small towns ONLY have volunteers for their PD?

I think that you need to take a hard look at reality and see that PT'rs don't "play cop" but do offer valuable services that the towns can't afford to pay for. There are some PT cops that shouldn't have a badge, but I've also met some FT cops that likewise should not be carrying a badge! You need to take a long hard look at the need/services provided, rather than individual officers and whether they were "playing cop" or seriously offering services to their community and I don't think that a paycheck or lack of one is a valid measuring stick.

Posted by: texdep

Len S

First let me say that I appreciate your well thought out and articulate response and comments. Every so often on this site there is an honest exchange of views and opinions and that's what I enjoy participating in.

First off, Call FFs in my town are the same as yours only they get paid hourly when on a call with no annual stipend. And are the only FF's we have.

Second, I read you reply several times to make sure I got the points and find I don't disagree to any great extent. So it must be that I am not expressing myself correctly. I thought I was clear in my post that PT officers SHOULD BE covered.So I'll try again. I'll also try to state my view in a more generic manner.

Officers, regardless of title or compensation who's role is to provide for the basic, necessary, public safety LE needs of the community should be covered by some provision in the event of injury or KIA.

While I'll admit it is possible, I don't believe that auxiliary officer's (except in times of declared emergency when they are covered) usually fall into the above category.

Posted by: spd722

I was told that the part time officers would be compensated at the rate of 1st pay step of the officers contract. Aux. officers who volunteer there time I think get nothing.

Posted by: LenS

Tex,

MANY towns abuse the term Aux Police and use them like Special/Reserve Police. Don't know why, but I do know it as fact in several towns.

By MGLs, Aux Police are supposed to fall under Civil Defense and ONLY used in declared emergencies.

My late Police Chief decided that he wanted total control of ALL police and thus changed our Aux Police to Special Police under HIS authority. According to the Chief, he did this either in the late 1950s or early 1960s. Thus, the Special Police still had to volunteer a lot of time, but at ALL times were under the command of the Chief of Police (and Nobody else). We also were trained (MCJTC academy and monthly in-house), certified armed (qualified 2x/year) with full police powers . . . at least until our current chief removed our powers of arrest and all means of weapons/cuffs (and then he wanted us to work patrol with the FT POs) . . . most of us resigned and then he disbanded what was left!

I am an officer/BOD member of two state-wide police associations and know a lot of Aux Police who are certified to carry, work the church and patrol details. Some are also Special Police and work details/shifts. I am not sure how the bounds of separation are in those towns, but Stoughton (to name just one) has both an Aux and Special group and at least some officers are members of both.

I recall that Bedford and Natick had unarmed Aux that the PD used for directing traffic, parades, and other town events.

Tex, what lit my fuse was when you stated that volunteers were "playing cop". It struck a nerve with me, as most of us took the job very seriously and were not "playing".

Posted Tue Nov 16, 15:28:

Quote:

Originally Posted by spd722 @ Tue Nov 16, 12:26

I was told that the part time officers would be compensated at the rate of 1st pay step of the officers contract. Aux. officers who volunteer there time I think get nothing.

And our late Chief told me that we'd get 100% of our "normal pay" as a Special PO. Thus, we'd get nothing!

Years later, a FT PO responded to a "child drowned" call at our town beach. Before the FFs arrived with a boat or any dive gear (I don't think we have that capability), this PO (who had been on car patrol) took off his gun belt and dove in fully clothed to try to rescue this child. He was unsuccessful, but he did receive a commendation for "above and beyond". In the process, he lost his wedding ring (slipped off his finger in the water) and requested the town reimburse him $400 to replace the ring. The town steadfastly refused, saying TS, not their responsibility!

[Don't think I posted this here before, if I did, sorry for the repeat.] I have a good friend (FT PO) who was critically injured when he stopped his cruiser to let a lady cross the street. He was rear-ended and the dash-mounted radar unit and flashlight went airborne, fracturing his skull and causing brain injury. He was forcibly retired after >27 years on the PD, the town only covered a small amount (cost) of his injuries, the town sued the other driver and pocketed the money "to reimburse the town for his lost salary and expenses" and docked his pay by $100/wk to "pay the town back" for its expenses. Net result was that he was left with personal responsibility for >$100K in medical bills. The town left him hanging (they were pulling the rope) and I don't think the union helped him either.

Sgt in town was called up for Iraq (he's a Major in Reserves) and the town refused to give him some $3-7K that he was due while he was serving on Active Duty. It was in the newspapers and no one is disputing the facts. I don't know if the town was legally bound to give him that money or if it was within its rights to refuse the funds, only that it was a very tacky thing to do to a hero and Veteran who has served on the PD for ~20 years.

So, if you don't have it in writing, when push comes to shove, you are likely to find that those that Verbally promised you something in case of injury/death have "short memories". At least I know exactly where my town stands (and it makes me sick!). I survived those 17 years without harm and now serve as a full-time Constable (full police powers but work independent of the PD), only dependent on the town for appointment but earn no money from the town and am not obligated to do any volunteer work.

Posted by: metrowestblues

I want to thank all of the F-T officers who wrote in to say that reserve or aux officers SHOULD get benefits in the event of accident or death.

Trust me, the vast majority of us are not out there to take your jobs, or interfere with your contracts. We simply want to support and enhance your crimefighting efforts.

I was (pleasantly) surprised to see so much support on this! Thanks Again

Posted by: LenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by metrowestblues @ Tue Nov 16, 18:17

Trust me, the vast majority of us are not out there to take your jobs, or interfere with your contracts. We simply want to support and enhance your crimefighting efforts.

I agree fully!

Most would be surprised to learn that the vast majority of volunteers are doing what they do strictly to help their own communities, not for the ego trip.

Posted by: RPD931

I concur also. I was an auxiliary and It started at as just a way for me to give back to the town in which I grew up in. They sent me to the Reserve Academy and that's when I got into Police work, but I've never been the "gung ho" type, just someone that wants to do good and help others. For the most part thats why Auxiliaries are out there... Yeah, there are a few wingnuts that should NOT be out there, but the same with regular Police Officers.. there are some regulars we know that make us wonder how they ever got on.

Auxiliaries should be protected, just like Volly Firefighters, if they get injured or killed in the line of duty. Aux. duties are different than regular PO's, but one goal remains the same - "Serve and Protect the community".

I am a part-time PO, but in my PD part-timers are in the union with Full-timers as there is NO difference in duties, we just work less hours.

If towns want Volunteer services (Police, Fire, EMS) then they should at least offer protection for families they may leave behind or cannot support due to death or injury. It would be a small cost for towns to invest in Life Insurance Policies for these volunteers.

Posted by: PhilipD

While this may not be relevant in mass...
in Both NY and NJ, towns/cities/counties are required to cover auxiliary police, volunteer firefighters for injuries and deaths the same as the would a regular police officer/FF. It is written in state law.
While I was on a foot patrol once in NYC as an auxiliary, I was struck by a minivan.
The dept. covered all my related medical expenses, and actual lost pay from my real job in addition to any other misc. expenses.
Hope this helps !

Posted by: spikez180

SSPOs sould definately covered if they are disabled or killed in the line of duty. Think about it, they are risking their lives just as often as full timers...but they are being paid a fraction of the hourly rate. Give them some peace of mind while they are on the streets.[/img]

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by spikez180

SSPOs sould definately covered if they are disabled or killed in the line of duty. Think about it, they are risking their lives just as often as full timers...but they are being paid a fraction of the hourly rate. Give them some peace of mind while they are on the streets.[/img]

Sounds like a great opportunity to support MCLEA and fight for your rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: MassAcademyXO

i think that it is important to recognize a few factors here as i believe that everyone has made valid points. not all departments are the same - certainly not when it comes to pt or aux. officers. in some larger town/cities, pt/aux officers are very limited as to what the do. some of those larger departments just dont require the additional coverage that pt or aux officers can lend. in many smaller towns however, that lack funding but do not lack territory, some aux officers are fully sworn and are granted powers. although they will never be considered full equals, they do provide police coverage which would otherwise be lacking. also important to recognize is that not all training is the same. some towns like wayland provide an incredible opportunity as they are very proactive and very strict with the training they provide. at the end of the day, you wear a uniform with a police badge on it, the badguy isnt going to ask if you are just a "reserve" or just an "aux" (and quite frankly, neither will the public who in a time of need will turn to them.)

Posted by: JeepinWeezle

You should be covered more so....You are not even getting paid and You are putting Your life on the line to help others.

Posted by: wordstew

Come on !!!! we shouldn't even have to question this. someone providing service to the town aux/special/reserve whatever, if the guy gets hurt he should be taken care ofend of story.

let's face it, these guys do alot of the crap work the full-timers don't want to do. believe it or not they can also get injured on duty.

Posted by: LenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordstew

come on !!!! we shouldn't even have to question this. someone providing service to the town aux/special/reserve whatever, if the guy gets hurt he should be taken care ofend of story.

let's face it, these guys do alot of the crap work the full-timers don't want to do. believe it or not they can also get injured on duty.

i agree, that's why i posted the thread.

however, reality is that the towns don't really give a damn if a pt po gets hurt/killed, the union could care less, and most chiefs look at them as "raw meat" to be used and then disposed of at no/little cost.

now there is a bill filed to cover pt ffs, due to the noise created over the one that was killed. however, i'm willing to bet that nothing in that bill is included to cover pt pos of any stripe.

my town has had a total of one po kia and that was a special po many many years ago, hit by a drunk driver while directing traffic.

when i was a special/reserve po (i've been "retired" since 1996) i recall a call from my chief asking me to take a detail (private party at a vfw hall). no ft po would take the detail . . . i asked why and was told that they had intel that a group of troublemakers intended to crash the party and beat up the attendees. i said "no thanks" only to get a pleading phone call from the my chief begging me to take the detail. like a fool, i did and made my presence very visible outside the hall. luckily nothing happened, but the same chief had told me (a few years earlier) that if any of us were hurt/killed the town would not cover us in any way . . . no medical, no funeral, no disability! when we worked for pay only irs/ma/ss taxes were taken out.

[apologies for all lower case. i don't know what happened. i typed in "sentence case" and even edited it when the caps didn't "stick". no luck!]

Posted by: VAP1773

If the municipality offers zero compensation for your service, you know that they are not going to give you ANYTHING, you still take the job and the associated risks of the job, why do you think that you will be entitled to anything for your sacrafice?

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