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Main Page Explanation of score banding
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: aldajumo

Can anyone explain how the score banding structure works with veterans, residents and non-residents. I understand the scoring, but don't understand how test takers are placed within bands. Example: What band would a resident disabled vet who scored 90, a resident who scored 90 and a non-resident who scored 90 be placed if all on the same town list? If all are in the same band because of score and everyone within the band is tied, how do you know where you stand?
Are there different band structures for each category (resident disabled vet, resident vet, resident and so on)? 9 bands for each just mentioned?
Confused? I hope that I'm making sense.
Thank you for your help!

Posted by: policelaborlaw.com

According to HRD, there will be "super bands" consisting of the special category groups such as disabled veterans, veterans, sons and daughters of deceased or disabled police officers and firefighters, etc.... These so-called "super bands" will be at the top of the list, followed by residents and non-residents. HRD won't know the point spreads of the bands until after the exams are scored.

Posted by: Southside

"superbands" gotta love this fcking state.

Posted by: redsox03

^ VETS earned it buddy! Get over it.

Posted by: RCS

Quote:

Originally Posted by policelaborlaw.com

According to HRD, there will be "super bands" consisting of the special category groups such as disabled veterans, veterans, sons and daughters of deceased or disabled police officers and firefighters, etc.... These so-called "super bands" will be at the top of the list, followed by residents and non-residents. HRD won't know the point spreads of the bands until after the exams are scored.

I have a question pertaining to the score banding. If the appointing authority reaches into the "9 band" after vets, children of deceased, etc, every person that received a score of 9 would get a card because essentially all of these people with a 9 are tied, correct?

If that is correct would the appointing authority be able to pick and choose anyone that received a "9" or would there be some sort of lottery?

Posted by: aldajumo

The way it was explained to me was...they can pick anyone from within that band that they want to hire (because everyone is tied regardless of their score). If the town is not familiar with any of the candidates, they would interview several and pick. If they only want to hire a certain person/s that they know within that band, they can with no explanation to Civil Service as to why they passed over someone.
I hope this helps.

Posted by: nixon3535

oh boy....the ONE reason i use to like civil service was that there wasnt too much politics involved ( i.e. if you got a 99 and a selectmens "boy," got a 97, they couldnt just pass you over) this banding is going to toss ALL of that out the window....im 1 on my town right now. hope they hurry the hell up....if not, i have heard california has some nice weather

Posted by: RCS

Quote:

Originally Posted by aldajumo

The way it was explained to me was...they can pick anyone from within that band that they want to hire (because everyone is tied regardless of their score). If the town is not familiar with any of the candidates, they would interview several and pick. If they only want to hire a certain person/s that they know within that band, they can with no explanation to Civil Service as to why they passed over someone.
I hope this helps.

To be honest, that is what I was thinking also (anyone can be picked within the band). Really, I mean why not, the only breakdown within the band is alphabetical, so why should the poor guy with a W last name get screwed. There probably will be some nepotism involved in the selections, which absolutely sucks.

Posted by: Macop

Get rid of all extra status points and let the scores do the talking, oh but that would make to much scence.

Thank god I got hired of the last exam, sounds like more CS cluster fucking to me, good luck all.

Posted by: Southside

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox03

^ VETS earned it buddy! Get over it.

I am not gonna get into it with you. Vets deserve points no doubt, but not being placed in a superband above all others. Great response by the way telling me to get over it...haha. STFU!

Posted by: AdamJ1984

I'm with you Southside about the Vets theory. I have the greatest respect for those who protect our country, but I really think they are not always the best fit for policing. I know the topic has been beaten like a dead horse, but it really irks me knowing that even though someone was a Vet, does that make him/her a better officer? I highly doubt it because true passion, dedication, and most importantly education will prevail. Who knows, this test is a joke anyways, the best person should get the job, like any other job with numerous applicants.

Posted by: hockeyman4

ok lets get some opinions here... do you guys like or dislike this new system also do u think it will help u or hurt u ?

Posted by: RCS

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyman4

ok lets get some opinions here... do you guys like or dislike this new system also do u think it will help u or hurt u ?

I think the new system leaves a lot to be desired, I think the test itself was better the old way. I hope it will help, but only time will tell. Let's be honest, the score banding is going to help some people get further in the process than the old system. Some will hit the lottery and get a job, and others will be complain their number didn't get called. IMHO, MSP's system of testing or a slight variation is probably the most fair: points for vets, children of deceased, and the rest based strictly on score alone. If you did not, do well they basically tell you to try harder next time.

Posted by: redsox03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southside

I am not gonna get into it with you. Vets deserve points no doubt, but not being placed in a superband above all others. Great response by the way telling me to get over it...haha. STFU!

Why are you so bitter, vets got hired over you in CS towns?
I'll say it again, GET OVER IT! We earned it. 90% of the time Vets will be in better shape, better disciplined, and be more professional looking and acting. Im not sayin Non-vets cant make good cops, dont get me wrong. Sorry if I hurt you feelings

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox03

And all minorities earned it too and are up there with the VETS because they deserve it just as good.

Posted by: Southside

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox03

HAHAHA I am not bitter. I just think folks like you talk out your ass. I have been a patrolman full time for two years and even though I voice an opinion...a thin skinned whiner like yourself has to apply your computer strength and act like a bad ass behind a keyboard. If you believe your in better shape, so be it...if you feel you are more qualified fine have at it. I will just sit back and watch you talk about how great u are while i suck down my beer and laugh. I enjoy your unfounded opinions though....last time I checked the vets in my academy that scored in the high 90's are still employed and are good cops....however those that scored in the 70-80 range and got "full preference have all been shitcanned". So I will say you are right you deserve some extra points on the exam...NO DOUBT, but FULL PREFERENCE not really. If you truly feel that you are better qualified then all those who did not join the military and that you are entitled to be placed in a bracket above all...then I will just say you are gonna make one hell of a cop.

Posted by: redsox03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southside

Thank you for proving my point by your posts, very profesional. I bet your a great cop. If all the low scoring Vet have been "shitcanned" as you say, everything works out in the end then. More jobs should open up. The experience you get in the military gives you a strong foundation in police work, Police are para-military. Not to mention the sacrafices you know nothing about that vets make. Enjoy your beer sir, have a nice day.

Posted by: alphadog1

Why should they get rid of the super bands? Those who fall into this band have earned it.

Posted by: Nick

I'll be in the "bilingual, college educated, academy trained, 5-year-experienced, Eagle Scout, EMT, no criminal record" Super Band.

Wait... that doesn't exist? Crap.

Posted by: Southside

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox03

Posted by: redsox03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southside

What, couldn't think of anything intelligent to say. Thanks for for proving my point yet again.

Posted by: Southside

You must be one of those alliance security guys.

Posted by: Macop

Southside is right, I have no problem with extra points for vets, but not absolution. I have worked with vets on the job that were less than able to do the job. Obviously not every vet is right for the job, but on the other hand not every cop that is on the job is right for the job. And no Redsox03 I'm not bitter, I am happily employed F/T by a CS P.D!!

Posted by: Foxy85

As the banding system was explained to me.....minus all the special super band crap with vets/disabled vets and all that.....How it works....

Anyone who scores {96-100} for example would be placed in one band.....Anyone in that list can be by-passed for any reason.....if the Chief feels no one in that list fits what he is looking for he can jump down to the {90-95} band......

The point of this new system is that it is suppose to make it easier for a Chief to appoint someone he feels is qualified without getting caught up in the whole by-pass debacle that used to exhist. Now...for example, he can pick someone who has experience as a part-time Campus cop for a couple of years who scores a 96, over someone who scored a 100 who has zero experience or education....so now that they are in the same band, he can go to the more qualified person, over the one who scored a two points hire thats a dolt.... In theory its a good idea.... But I think it will just lead to more nepotism (spelling?)....

We'll see.....I'm one of the sorry souls that has to take this test and hope to get on from it.....

BTW, the Superbands are the exact same thing, except they consist of only disable vets/vets/and children whose parents were killed in the line of duty....

Posted by: redsox03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southside

You must be one of those alliance security guys.

You must like making yourself look like a jackass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop

Southside is right, I have no problem with extra points for vets, but not absolution. I have worked with vets on the job that were less than able to do the job. Obviously not every vet is right for the job, but on the other hand not every cop that is on the job is right for the job. And no Redsox03 I'm not bitter, I am happily employed F/T by a CS P.D!!

I wasn't saying that all not-vets are bitter. Southside is not a cop in a CS town. He seemed bitter to me.

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Here's a question for a kid i know. He asked me and i don't know. He is a civil service part-timer for two years and has a FT academy. He wants to lateral to a CS PD full-time and is in the process for it now. How does probation work for him, does he have to do 1 year probation again. I know some guys that lateraled from one CS PD to another don't have to go through probation again.

Posted by: Southside

nuff said redsox03

Posted by: redsox03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southside

nuff said redsox03

You proved my point to me and everyone else on this site. You continue to show how unprofessional and childish you are. What ever small town you work for (becuase you couldn't get hired in a CS town or city) must be thrilled to have you.

Posted by: Southside

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox03

Shouldn't you be out walking the streets of Boston with your red beret on.

Posted by: RCS

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox03

I wasn't saying that all not-vets are bitter. Southside is not a cop in a CS town. He seemed bitter to me.

Redsox,

I think we all appreciate what the vets have done and thanks for your service! I am not sure that a cop who has taken a CS test to get a job makes them better than the next guy. Troopers do not take the "CS" test, just as an example, they take a test administered by their agency, just as non-CS towns give their own respective tests.

Posted by: redsox03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southside

Shouldn't you be out walking the streets of Boston with your red beret on.

LOL. The only red beret I have is the one from the 82nd Airborne, but you wouldn't know nothing about that. Thanks though.

Posted by: Macop

redsox I know Southside personally and he is employed by a very sqaured away non-CS P.D.

OneOutOfMany When you are a CS P/T Police Officer and lateral into a F/T CS position in a CS P.D your 1yr starts from scratch, you don't get credited for P/T work to the best of my knowledge. If you are a F/T CS Police Officer for 1YR and lateral into another CS P.D you do NOT do probation again.

Posted by: FghtNIrsh17

Ok so if there is a 100-96 bracket or whatever the range is. How does the whole 2+1 work or is that ou t the window????

For example CS town has multiple openings do they use multiple brackets for interviews or if there is 100 people in bracket 1 (or however the brackets are) do they interview just them????

Posted by: Southside

Quote:

Originally Posted by FghtNIrsh17

Ok so if there is a 100-96 bracket or whatever the range is. How does the whole 2+1 work or is that ou t the window????

For example CS town has multiple openings do they use multiple brackets for interviews or if there is 100 people in bracket 1 (or however the brackets are) do they interview just them????

I believe the old method is out the window. Everyone in the band qualifies.

Posted by: wgciv

Re: Military Preference..
I think the line should be drawn somwhere in the middle of this southside/redsox argument. Veterans, in my opinion, do deserve and have earned a little extra consideration. But how much extra??? The CS policy is to place ALL vets above ALL non-vets. This means that a vet who scores 81 is placed above a non-vet who scores 98. Fair? Not really. CS should adopt a policy similar to that of MSP. MSP gives preference in the form of 2 points added to the test score. Therefore, that vet who scores an 81 ends up with a final score of 83. He is propelled up the list and his chances of being hired increased. The non-vet who scored the 98 remains near the top and still has a shot of being hired because he does not have 30, 50, 80, or however many vets that he outscored by 20 points, above him on the list. Bottom line. give us vets preference, but not absolute preference!

Posted by: Southside

Quote:

Originally Posted by wgciv

Re: Military Preference..
I think the line should be drawn somwhere in the middle of this southside/redsox argument. Veterans, in my opinion, do deserve and have earned a little extra consideration. But how much extra??? The CS policy is to place ALL vets above ALL non-vets. This means that a vet who scores 81 is placed above a non-vet who scores 98. Fair? Not really. CS should adopt a policy similar to that of MSP. MSP gives preference in the form of 2 points added to the test score. Therefore, that vet who scores an 81 ends up with a final score of 83. He is propelled up the list and his chances of being hired increased. The non-vet who scored the 98 remains near the top and still has a shot of being hired because he does not have 30, 50, 80, or however many vets that he outscored by 20 points, above him on the list. Bottom line. give us vets preference, but not absolute preference!

I completely agree. Exactly my point. He just seemed to single me out because I expressed my opinion.

Posted by: redsox03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Southside

I completely agree. Exactly my point. He just seemed to single me out because I expressed my opinion.

It just seemed to me that you felt Vets shouldn't get nothing for their service from you first post. Sorry if I took it wrong. I was in Iraq and Afganistan, both for a year. Do I think everyone owes me something? No, I joined the Army on my own , noone had a gun to my head. Do I deserve some preference on the CS test? Yeah, I think so. I feel I've earned that. Just my.02

Posted by: kwflatbed

Vets preference has been well discused on this site there threads on it pro and con.

Veterans Preference -vs- "Credential Preference"

The Great Vet Debate

Racial/ gender preferences & Veteran's Preference

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox03

I feel I've earned that.

You have, and I wish you the best of luck!!!

Posted by: redsox03

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop

You have, and I wish you the best of luck!!!

Thanks. To everyone that complains about vet-preference, you should of joined the military. One of the big reasons why I joined is because of the huge advantage you have in Mass from being a vet. You can still take CJ courses while in the military. It may be hard finding time, If you want it bad enough you'll do what you have to do.

Posted by: Foxy85

One of the reasons you chose to join the army was to get Veterans preference on a police test?....Thats a bit of an odd reason to join....

I don't think people are complain about Vet preference itself, just that its skewed so far it works against people without it.....To them that is unfair....It just needs to be tweaked....not taken away....

Posted by: kwflatbed

"just that its skewed so far it works against people without it..."

To bad how sad.
From your neighborhood Viet-Nam Veteran

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsox03

Thanks.

No, thank you for your service! The least we can do as a nation is provide our veterans a career opportunity upon their return from active duty. Best of luck.

Posted by: Foxy85

Hey more power to you guys getting preference, I don't think anyone here would say that they wouldn't use it if they had it....was just making a point....

Posted by: redsox03

Yeah, it was one of the reasons. I knew it would help get me setup in Law Enforcement. Not the only reason, just one of them.

Posted by: Macop

Basically life sucks and you do whatever you can to get ahead, that is the reality of it.

Posted by: JoninNH

Vets earned the preference. Period.

Posted by: Macop

Absolute preference should only be given to persons with Police experience and training. An extra point system is fine for all others, including VETS.

Posted by: wgciv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop

Absolute preference should only be given to persons with Police experience and training. An extra point system is fine for all others, including VETS.

Absolute preference should be given to no one.. Why don't we just go back to the old nepotism system used 60 - 70 years ago!

Posted by: Foxy85

old nepotism system....sheesh...nothing old about it...how do you think I got my job with the state....

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

It's everywhere

Posted by: Macop

That would be under the assumption nepotism was wiped out, I think not!!

Posted by: badogg88

Did anyone take the seminar today at the Holiday Inn? If so, what did you think?

Posted by: LTSO16

So I have no problem with vets getting a boost over non vets but since im not a vet I have to ask a question. What will happen if I get a band 9 and a vet gets a band 8? do all vets get above being in those "superbands"?? its gonna be interesting but i have a feeling those who are not vets are gonna catch a few snags along the way. thanks

So now I feel like an idiot because my first post ever on this site was a question that has been brought up for the past 4 weeks. I just took 20 minutes to read all the posts on this thread and thanks to everyone who's been posting cause its helped me answer alot of ?'s I had. Now i feel like I can post something with some substance. I agree with a previous post that vets shouldnt get total preference but definatly do deserve preference. Some other forms of experience should be taken into consideration. Im a supervisory officer in a federal agency. Shouldnt that be tossed into the consideration. If you think about it this list only leads to interviews and the following tests. So we all have a shot. Its just getting to that first interview which this whole preference into effect. alright im in the game now folks. thanks for reading

Posted by: Copper82

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTSO16

Some other forms of experience should be taken into consideration. Im a supervisory officer in a federal agency. Shouldnt that be tossed into the consideration.

Which one? The TSA?

Just kidding man. I hear you though. I've been a Police Officer in both Indiana and now in Texas, and I'm serving in the Army Reserves now but that doesn't count for much. I guess that's an upside to a deployment, it'll help my score next time around.

Good luck!

Posted by: LTSO16

HAHA yea ya caught me. Its all to funny that you knew right away it was the TSA. Buy hey its still a federal agency and if we're throwin in all sorts of ways to get ahead why not take someone who is a federal "officer". It all looks good on paper. Thanks for throwin me under the bus on that one though. good luck as well

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