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Sick time affidavit

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Posted by: Cartman

Our Chief has come up with a new general order that specifies, among other things, that you have to fill out an affidavit that says why you were sick. He also states in the order, that you have to stay home when you are sick, unless you are going to the doctor, getting medicine etc. He cited a case, Atterberry V. The Police Commissioner of Boston, as his ability to implement this. Does anyone else have these rules? We are "Impact Bargaining" this now, but I foresee us getting to impasse, and him just implementing the policy.


Posted by: USMCMP5811

that's B.S. An employer can't ask you why your out sick unless it is a prolonged illness... Then they can only require a Dr's note after so many days.


Posted by: Danman

true true


Posted by: bbelichick

Requiring an employee to disclose an illness is a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act


Posted by: Cartman

One of the first things I did with our "Impact Bargaining" was to tell him that I don't want to tell him if I'm out sick for a personal reason. He agreed, and said that if we want to write "personal" on the reason, he'd be OK with that. I have been looking under HIPAA, and FLSA and been unable to find anything. Under The American's with Disabilities Act, I found the following under FAQ's: Q. What limitations does the ADA impose on medical examinations and inquiries about disability?

"After a person starts work, a medical examination or inquiry of an employee must be job-related and consistent with business necessity. Employers may conduct employee medical examinations where there is evidence of a job performance or safety problem, examinations required by other Federal laws, examinations to determine current oefitnessî to perform a particular job, and voluntary examinations that are part of employee health programs.

Information from all medical examinations and inquiries must be kept apart from general personnel files as a separate, confidential medical record, available only under limited conditions.

Tests for illegal use of drugs are not medical examinations under the ADA and are not subject to the restrictions of such examinations."


I guess that really doesn't cover my question if they can ask us why we were sick.


Posted by: PearlOnyx

When I worked for Essex they tried to implement this. Actually disclosing why you were ill was eventually shot down for privacy reasons, but you were required to provide a doctors note which specifically stated:

You were under the doctors care on the date that you were sick and;
You were unable to perform your job duties on that date.

If you provided a note without those two things clearly stated, no good. If you didn't provide a note, it was an unexcused absence. A few of those, and you were in trouble. It became difficult to take a few days off a year for the common cold. Who goes to the doctor when you had a cold? Not too many people.

Not the same, but a similar situation. Basically requiring you to prove that you were sick in order to use time that you were entitled to. As far as being required to stay home other than to address medical issues, it sort of makes sense. If your so sick that you can't go to work, where else are you going to be? Otherwise, you have to ask yourself if you're really unecessarily using your time. Everybody is guilty of taking a "mental health day" or being somewhere where they're not supposed to be when they are out sick at least once in their life, but I can see where administration is coming from.

Asking you to disclose why you were out, including a specific illness however if rediculous, unless it becomes a constant or long term issue.


Posted by: chiefwiggum

My Dept. has always asked for a reason on sick slips. But you can put whatever you want.
You can always put family illness under the short term disability act your alowed to care for a sick member of your immediate family. I haven't looked into it for a while but if it's an issue for you check it out.


Posted by: K9Vinny

Not to mention the main reason why you should stay home when you are contagious: because you are contagious. I agree with the previous post, who goes to the doctor for the common cold?


Posted by: GD

That is a violation of HIPPA!!!


Posted by: pahapoika

When I worked for Essex they tried to implement this. Actually disclosing why you were ill was eventually shot down for privacy reasons, but you were required to provide a doctors note which specifically stated:

You were under the doctors care on the date that you were sick and;
You were unable to perform your job duties on that date.


DOC is basically the same thing . Doctor's note with office letterhead , day you were out , ( for an undisclosed illness ) unable to work and date you could return.

we get 5 unsubstantiated days ( no note ) unless reasonable sick time is abused. ( banging in before or after your days off or weekends and holidays )

so they can basically challenge officers on any day they please.

their trying to change this and tell us the first 5 days will be our unsubstantiated days and everything after that you need a note.

be careful how they write up the new rules. ours is a real nightmare.

now some guys use FLMA to get time off . it's that bad


Posted by: Inspector

There is no way this can be done...unless a union is stupid enough to allow it slipped into the contract. There have been attempts to slip in such provisions in the past.


Posted by: alphadog1

I think the Chief is doing this under department policies & procedures; not the contract.
The LRC and the Courts have determined that certain issues are "mandatory subjects of bargaining" and must be negotiated to resolution or impasse before the employer can make the changes. If there is an impasse, the Chief can implement the policy change and the union then would have to fight it.
There is a recent arbitration decsion (cannot remember the name)from the DOC that clearly explains what can/cannot be done when asking for a doctor's note. But, in the end the Chief can order one to produce a doctor's note.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphadog1
I think the Chief is doing this under department policies & procedures; not the contract.
The LRC and the Courts have determined that certain issues are "mandatory subjects of bargaining" and must be negotiated to resolution or impasse before the employer can make the changes. If there is an impasse, the Chief can implement the policy change and the union then would have to fight it.
There is a recent arbitration decsion (cannot remember the name)from the DOC that clearly explains what can/cannot be done when asking for a doctor's note. But, in the end the Chief can order one to produce a doctor's note.
Your Contract supersedes any Police & Procedures he institutes.


Posted by: crazy irish

I'l bet pearl remembers when Essex County started sending uniformed Captains in a cruisers to your house to see if you where at home. if you didn't ans the door you got a write up. Or how about they add up yor total sick time and if you have less then 20% of what you have earned your suspended for three days without pay.


Posted by: alphadog1

Your right a contract does supercedes a policy; but you still have to obey the order to produce a doctor's note.


Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphadog1
Your right a contract does supercedes a policy; but you still have to obey the order to produce a doctor's note.
Unless your contract stipulates that you only need a note after 5 days. It sounds like you already claimed a change in employment conditions and went to impact bargaining.

If he wants stuff like this, make him give you a raise before he tries to shove other concessions down your throats.


Posted by: dave7336

let me see if I have this correct...I am supposed to go to a doctor every time I get sick (even if it is for one day)...then the city/town complains about the cost of healthcare...I can't win


Posted by: OutOfManyOne

He is on firm ground, he can do all those things too. Many PDs did that. Call Ayer PD , same thing, can't leave the house without notifying your PD that you are going to the doctor,pharmacy,etc.


Posted by: lpwpd722

Hipaa


Posted by: Mitpo62

Sick time is your time and what you do with it is your business. At least that's how it is read here in sparkling, clear downtown Taunton. Uh oh, here comes that fever again.....


Posted by: pahapoika

we get 10 hours a month , 120 for a year

if you burn a couple days , who cares ?

why management wants to screw with officers , i don't know


Posted by: 94c

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfManyOne
He is on firm ground, he can do all those things too. Many PDs did that. Call Ayer PD , same thing, can't leave the house without notifying your PD that you are going to the doctor,pharmacy,etc.
that's the sign of a weak union.

Contract language can be more important than a 3-3-3 per cent raise.


Posted by: policelaborlaw.com

This was the Rule in Atterbury (Special Order No. 83-1):

“SUBJECT: SICK OR INJURED OFFICERS REMAINING AT THEIR RESIDENCE

“Rule 110, Section 22 provides, in part: ‘The Police Commissioner may not allow pay from accumulated sick credit or for injury in the line of duty status if the officer shall fail to remain at his residence, unless permitted by the Police Commissioner to go elsewhere.'

“In order to aid in the administration of this rule, the following procedures are to be implemented effective immediately:

“All officers disabled from work for sickness or injury and being carried on the time books of the Department pursuant to Rule 110, ss. 4, 5, or 16, shall remain at the residence officially listed in the Department's personnel records unless they receive permission from the Operations Division or their Commanding Officer to be elsewhere.

“Officers shall contact the Operations Division to request permission to leave the residence for the following specific purposes. In each instance, with the exception noted, the Operations Division will grant permission to be absent from the residence for reasonable times for these specific purposes:

“1. To keep scheduled appointments with physicians, dentists, physical therapists, and/or hospitals, or clinics, whether or not related to the officer's present sickness or injury.

“2. To purchase food, household necessities and medication for the officer's present injury or illness or for the health care of minor children.

“NOTE: One four-hour period to complete such shopping, as described in Number 2 above, shall be granted each week. Additional requests shall be granted only for emergency purposes.

“3. To attend church services.

“4. To register to vote or to vote in elections for municipal, county, State or Federal offices, or regularly scheduled union elections.

“5. To engage in physical exercise such as walking or swimming, recommended in writing by an attending physician.

“6. To answer court subpoenas in cases arising out of the officer's employment.

“7. To report to Headquarters or other police facilities when ordered to do so by a superior or commanding officer.

“The officer should make such requests by contacting the Operations Division at 247-4590. In making the request, the officer will state his purpose or purposes in leaving his residence, his destination or destinations, his planned time of departure, his method of transportation, his companions if any, and his estimated time of return to his residence. Upon returning to his residence, the officer will contact the Operations Division at 247-4590 to notify the Department that he has returned.

“Permission to leave the residence for any purpose other than those listed above will not be granted unless approved by the officer's Commanding Officer. Sick and injured personnel should contact the commander at work during the commander's regularly scheduled working hours in order to obtain a determination prior to finalization of their plans to leave the residence.

“Officers who obtain such permission from their Commanding Officers will notify the Operations Division at 247-4590 prior to leaving the residence of the fact that they are leaving, that permission was obtained of the purpose or purposes for leaving the residence, the destination or destinations, the departure time, method of transportation, companions if any, and estimated time of return to residence.

“Upon returning to the residence, the officer will contact the Operations Division at 247-4590 to notify the Department that he has returned.

“Operations Division personnel and Commanding Officers shall maintain records of all telephone requests and whether granted; as well as report of return to residence, on the Department form provided for such purpose.

“Sick or injured officers must obtain permission for every absence from their residence until they return to work, including for time periods during which, if the officer were working, would be non-work hours or days off.

“Officers not in compliance with this order or away from their residence without permission, will receive no pay for the day of their absence, or, if normally a day off, no pay for the next regularly scheduled work day. In addition, they may be subject to discipline for violation of Department Rules and Regulations.

“The Bureau of Investigative Services, Staff Inspection Unit, and the Personnel Division shall be responsible for ensuring compliance with this order.”

The SJC ruled that "the challenged rule and special order of the department are rationally connected with and foster the State's interests in maintaining an efficient police force to further public safety. Rule 110, § 22(D), and Special Order No. 83-1, do not impose an arbitrary restriction on all movement and exercise of constitutional freedoms by an officer on injured on duty status. Rather, they establish a reasonable system by which the department may monitor the movement and activities of personnel who are receiving full pay while not having to report for active duty. The system promotes reasonableness, and negates arbitrariness, in its provision that permission will not be denied in seven specific, and important, matters."

"Restrictions on the Federal constitutional rights of persons who are police officers, at least in so far as the restrictions relate directly or indirectly to the officers in their official capacities, are permissible. To pass facial constitutional scrutiny they need only be rationally connected, in a nonarbitrary fashion, with the State's interest in fostering public safety by furthering the efficient operation of its police force."

NOTE: just because a rule might be Constitutional, that doesn't mean that itsn't a mandatory subject of bargaining. Also, depending on the CBA, the implementation of Atterbury or anything like it may be a subject for main table negotiations (as opposed to mid-term bargaining).

Brian E. Simoneau
http://www.policelaborlaw.com


Posted by: gooday

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbelichick
Your Contract supersedes any Police & Procedures he institutes.
100% correct. That contract was signed by them and the union in a leagal binding agreement. Always go with what the contract says and you cant loose.


Posted by: chief801

Ahhhh Ayer P.D. Rule 85-2, I remember it well....

Now comes the chief hat (and all the bashing that will be sure to follow)
Remember folks, sick leave is a benefit! Employers are allowing you to not come to work and still get paid. How is it that anyone can justify going out to do things other than work and expect the employer to compensate them for it? As far as notification, if you feel that an issue is so personal it is not worth telling your employer why you can't work, keep it to yourself, but you shouldn't expect to be paid for it. Keep it in perspective, you get paid to work and employers are willing to pay you when you can't, not when you just won't. I guess I just don't see the big deal nor did I see it before I stepped to the dark side! How many of you would hire someone and pay them not to show up at your house to perform a service? Let's be honest, these rules are disliked because over time sick leave has transformed into "my time that I can use when I want" When controls are put in place to stop sick leave abuse we get angry. How dare anyone ask me why they should pay me to stay home! What nerve! Have I ever stayed home because I didn't feel great, but could have probably worked? Hell yeah! But I wouldn't think of going fishing on the company dime! Stay home and enjoy the rest and no one would care. (Let the bashing begin!)


Posted by: chiefwiggum

Just move really far away from your city or town and make it hard for them to do a house check.


Posted by: mikemac64

Chief, I hear you, and agree to a certain degree. Sick time is a benfit to be used when necessary. That said, what has also transformed for an unsettling number of you peers in the Chiefly ranks is that all sick time is considered abuse.

As we all know, all the Chiefs never closed their eyes for a bit, always solved every crime before 8:00am, and never took sick days!!!

Now, a cop who stays home with a cold should not be expected to go to the Doc. That is silly and counterproductive. And that cop that may go to CVS to get some Nyquil should not be punished. The cop who calls in sick and is seen at the Pats game is an idiot and no one will defend that.

But a cop with a cold or flu. Please. They are doing us all a favor but not coming in and infecting us all. They are also saving the town money in healthcare costs. Every Doc visit costs money.

If someone is abusing sick time, deal with the individual. I am lucky since my Chief does not generally bust balls over sick time. Nor do I use a lot of sick days.

Oh, BTW: My truck is parked in my garage, which connects to my house. I hope a never catch anyone sneaking around to peak in. There could be ramifications for that.


Posted by: gooday

In the jobs we do sometimes we need that one day off just to get our heads straight. We call it a mental health day. We do a job that sometimes needs that more than others. From my own experience I'v taken a day off like that because I needed it and I would not have gotten it otherwise. I dont do it often but when I do it makes my disgruntlements go away. Sometimes administration can be a bigger pain in the ass than anyone and they make you not even want to do your job. Not only because of sick time but many other small things.If they only attacked the things that were worth while people would respect them more. If you have a guy that uses a sick day without a note here and there big deal, he may have had a good reason but was not sick.The main thing to consider is he there as much as the next guy and does he do a great job. Does he give people respect and is he a good officer. If so why go out of your way to screw with a good employee. I agree we need to look at things from both points of view but usualy an administrator dont like to do that because they dont want to be wrong. I work in a jail and I like my job very much but sometimes I need that day to just get away and have to myself. I'm sure cops need it just as much. I love it when people try to say they never called in sick when they were not sick. EVERYONE HAS!! anyone that says different is full of shit.


Posted by: Danman

i dont agree with that at all


Posted by: pahapoika

with the crazy schedule that law enforcement has ( open 24 hrs a day )

we miss out on allot of weekend activities , so if a guy wants to spend time with friends or family , who cares ?

if you earn the time , why not use it ? your only going to get 20 percent when you cash it in at retirement.

it's healthy to have a life outside of work.

there was a study not o long ago that said calling in sick is a great stress reliever. don't let management take that away.


Posted by: pablo

they tired some of that foolhardiness at our place. GUys had the doctos bill the town for the visit,since the town required it. THe town no longer mandates doctor notes unless its 5 consecutive days or more.


Posted by: chiefwiggum

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo
they tired some of that foolhardiness at our place. GUys had the doctos bill the town for the visit,since the town required it. THe town no longer mandates doctor notes unless its 5 consecutive days or more.
That's a great idea just go whenever you have a minor cold and just can't work or some other minor ailment. Tell the doctor you don't need any treatment and there is no real reason for being there except you need a note for work and send the bill to the City.


Posted by: underdod47

We had that policy in 1988 or 89 it was as foolish then as it is now, the Dept. even had Sgt's that would go by your home and check on you. We had one or two guys a shift call in and then get a note (on the day shift this usually needed a second sick day for the appointment) and bill the City. The policy quickly vanished.




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