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Main Page Riflemen, Stand To!!
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: Killjoy

While writing a response on another thread, it got me thinking that a lot of people are unaware of of the Civilian Marksmanship Program. This is an organization chartered by congress with maintaining marksmanship skills in the civilian populace. Doesn't that sound fantastic, its so politically uncorrect!! They basically sell surplus US rifles directly to civilians, at low costs. This means not having to go through an FFL dealer, although you do have to have a LTC. All one has to do is fufill the requirements, fill out the paperwork, have it notarized, and send it to the CMP with your check. In a couple of weeks they send a rifle directly to your house! Now mind you, these rifles have seen a lot of service, and have to be thoroughly cleaned and de-cosmolined, but for a couple hundred dollars, its a bargain! Better than paying $1000 clams for Springfield Armory, Inc., reproduction Garand. They sell both Garands and 1903's, with future promise of selling M-1 carbines. If you are at all interested, you should act quickly, because stocks are drying up, and then, prices will skyrocket! Also, being a police officer counts as one of the requirements on the application. I own two CMP purchased rifles (Garand and 1903A3) and they shoot magnificently. Here's the link:

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/sales.htm

Also, if you are interested in Garands, the Garand Collectors Association is a great organization, dedicated to the preservation and protection of these rifles. Membership is only $25 a year, and counts as membership in a CMP affiliated organization. Here's the link:

http://www.thegca.org/

Don't be a sheep, be a rifleman!!

Posted by: Sniper

INTERESTING KJ !!!!!!!! How long you been a member ?

Posted by: frank

Sweet. I have heard a little about the program in the past, but it's nice to have a link to associate it with and find out more about the program.

Is there any registration stuff that must be done (ala FA-10) or anything like that, and will they ship directly to a residence or should it be a FFL in MA?

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

Is there any registration stuff that must be done (ala FA-10) or anything like that, and will they ship directly to a residence or should it be a FFL in MA?

Negative, per congressional charter, if you can fufill all the requirements on the application, the rifle is shipped directly to your house, no FFL required, no FA-10. Be advised that you must have a valid LTC, though.

Quote:

INTERESTING KJ !!!!!!!! How long you been a member ?

I've been a member of the Garand Collectors Association since about 2003, which is the same year I purchased my first CMP rifle. I own a Remington 1903A3 and a Springfield Armory (the REAL one, not the company) M1 Garand, and plan to buy another Garand soon.

Posted by: SOT

Hold on there snappy.

A person who purchase a firearm out of state has 7 days to fill out an FA-10 and send it it. There is NO provision in the MGL to exclude the CMP rifles from this program.

The responsibility for the completion lies with the purchaser of the firearm in MA.

Just saying...

Posted by: Killjoy

Sorry, my bad...fill out the confiscation f, I mean, FA-10. You don't have to go through an FFL, though.

Posted by: SOT

Me thinks you wanted to confiscate some unregistered Danish models or something...hmmmmmmmm

12 a year just isn't enough for guys like you.

Posted by: Wolfman

I dashed off an email concerning eligibility for the program...the response:

Quote:

A recent change to our policy allows us to accept Law Enforcement employment as satisfying all four of our eligibility requirements: age, citizenship, firearms experience, and membership in a CMP affiliated organization. You need only send in a copy of your ID to meet all our requirements. Order form http://www.odcmp.com/Forms/1orderform.pdf (page 2a) must be notarized. You may go to our web site and register for a catalog. This will have all of the order forms that you will need. The web site is www.odcmp.com .
Thanks
Customer Service

Posted by: Killjoy

Now there is no reason for every swinging d*ck (or labia) P.O. on this site to get a Garand or '03.

Posted by: Wolfman

Sure there is. I just spent all my money at that stupid gun show on ammo and an AK...

Posted by: mpd61

Let's not forget the fact that the CMP is currently OUT OF STOCK on m-1 garands!!!!

Posted by: pahapoika

Let's not forget the fact that the CMP is currently OUT OF STOCK on m-1 garands!!!!

sadness , did the qualification years ago at Holbrook Sportsmens Club , but never sent in the paper work.

too bad Clinton destroyed all those M-14's. now that is one rifle i would have gladly sent away for

Posted by: Wolfman

The M1 carbines are coming out at the end of the month. I plan on getting one at some point. From what I've been able to gather they're running $495 each for Inlands, no mags, slings or oilers. I honestly don't know enough about them to decide if I want to get one right off the bat or wait for the other manufacturers to come out. In the meantime the funds are being squirreled away.

I'm sure Killjoy will chime in with his recommendations soon.

http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm

Posted by: frank

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

Let's not forget the fact that the CMP is currently OUT OF STOCK on m-1 garands!!!!

Where were you able to find that info? I didn't find anything on the website...thanks!

Posted by: dcs2244

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfman

The M1 carbines are coming out at the end of the month. I plan on getting one at some point. From what I've been able to gather they're running $495 each for Inlands, no mags, slings or oilers. I honestly don't know enough about them to decide if I want to get one right off the bat or wait for the other manufacturers to come out. In the meantime the funds are being squirreled away.

I'm sure Killjoy will chime in with his recommendations soon.

http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm

Wolf,

I have an import from Israel: original stock and Armory parkerizing: they stamped the serial number in the butt stock. It came with a canvas sling, oiler(!) and it was in great condition! Front sight: "American Hoe and Rake" (Chicopee); Stock: "Rockola Jukebox"; Receiver: "Saginaw Steering Gear"; Bolt: "Winchester"; It also came with three 20 round mags. I got a 30 round mag at the Big E years ago (from the full auto version)...

Oops! Bayonet lug by Underwood Typewriter...

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

Let's not forget the fact that the CMP is currently OUT OF STOCK on m-1 garands!!!!

Negative, they still have service-grade M1's (returned from Greece) for $395. The supply is not inexhaustible, however, and the CMP will run out of Garands in the near future. All that means to the consumer is prices rising, rising and rising. Get yours now, you will never see them again at this price. Don't forget there is also a supply of good condition 1903's for $500...a bargain as well.

Quote:

I'm sure Killjoy will chime in with his recommendations soon.

$495 is an excellent price for a M-1 Carbine, and it's a handy, fun gun to shoot. Designed by Winchester, is was built as a weapon to arm non-frontline troops, NCO's and Officers, the M-1 Carbine was chambered for the rather unique .30 Carbine round. The round is 110 grains, 7.62mm by 33mm (.30 inches) and has a velocity of about 1900 FPS. Within the confines for what the carbine was meant to do i.e. arm non-frontline troops with a light, handy weapon effective out to about 300 yards, it performed magnificently. Concerns about its "stopping power" are largely anecdotal, and suffered from comparisons of the M-1 carbine versus the M1 Garand, which uses a significantly larger cartridge. This also was exacerbated by frontline troops carrying the M-1 carbine as a primary weapon and employing it a ranges it was never meant to shoot. If compared to pistol rounds (like used in the M1 Thompson and M3 "Grease Gun") the .30 carbine round is significantly more powerful. The M-1 carbine is the most numerous weapon built by the US during WWII and over 6,221,220 were built in a space of only 3 1/2 years. It served on through the Korean war and was carried even into the Vietnam era. The Israeli's still use the carbine as a police rifle, and plan to upgrade it with a new design. Inland Manufacturing Division of General Motors was the largest producer of the M-1 carbine, with over 2.6 million carbines made, or approximately 43% of total production. Inland carbines are noted for being particulary well made and is well worth the price. I know I'll be putting an order in as soon as I can.

Posted by: dcs2244

Mine was manufactured by Inland...

BTW, I think it would be a great patrol rifle for urban use...

Posted by: Killjoy

I forgot to mention that carbine accessories (slings, oilers, magazines, spare parts) exist in abundance.

Posted by: Wolfman

Dammit. Now I want 2. Since CMP will only let you buy one of each mfg., maybe a Rockola - something neat about a gun and jukebox being made by the same company.

Anyone want to buy a 200GB Maxtor One-Touch external hard drive for $125? Have a couple old laptops as well...

Posted by: dcs2244

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Dammit. Now I want 2. Since CMP will only let you buy one of each mfg., maybe a Rockola - something neat about a gun and jukebox being made by the same company.

Anyone want to buy a 200GB Maxtor One-Touch external hard drive for $125? Have a couple old laptops as well...

What calibre are they?

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

Negative, they still have service-grade M1's (returned from Greece) for $395.

KJ.....I don't want to incur your wrath, however, EVERY M-1 Garand that shoots, shows as SOLD OUT. The only current M-1's are barrelled receivers and Drill rifles (Welded plugged barrels)

I could always throw $1000+ for a new Springfield Armory version?

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

KJ.....I don't want to incur your wrath, however, EVERY M-1 Garand that shoots, shows as SOLD OUT. The only current M-1's are barrelled receivers and Drill rifles (Welded plugged barrels)

Negative...here's the link...M1 Garand Rack Grade- IN STOCK

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm

Posted by: mpd61

YUP!
Rack grade-In stock, my eyes ain't what they used to be! Thanks Killer!

Posted by: epd111

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcs2244

BTW, I think it would be a great patrol rifle for urban use...

exactly what we use ours for - but, synthetic stocks.

Posted by: Wolfman

Posted by: Killjoy

Mmmmmm...Garand....

Posted by: Wolfman

Thought you'd like that one.

Posted by: Dane

Looks like the Rack Grade Garands are sold out. There might be some more for sale later this year.

Posted by: mpd61

Hey!!!!!
Lets not leave the ladies out of this! Here's my sister. I have her cell# available for you hard-core riflemen looking to hook-up with a serious shooter!

Posted by: frank

Well, at least she would handle the recoil better than I could.

Playing games like Call of Duty makes me wonder how guys actually fought with a Garand and if they actually got used to it, or if they just went to their foxhole bruised every night and got dislocated shoulders or not.

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

Playing games like Call of Duty makes me wonder how guys actually fought with a Garand and if they actually got used to it, or if they just went to their foxhole bruised every night and got dislocated shoulders or not.

???? You, sir, spend too much time playing X-box and not enough time at the range. The Garand, by virtue of its nearly 10 pound weight and gas-operated system is quite comfortable to shoot. I've taken many of my friends who have never shot a Garand to the range, and after shooting it, they've all commented on how light the recoil is. While its not a 22LR, its certainly a lot more comfortable than my shotgun loaded with slugs.

Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpd61

Hey!!!!!
Lets not leave the ladies out of this! Here's my sister. I have her cell# available for you hard-core riflemen looking to hook-up with a serious shooter!

Does she put out?

Posted by: Wolfman

After one month, the CMP finally got around to processing my carbine order...

Group buy on .30 cal?

Posted by: Wolfman

UPDATE:

The CMP has more Inland carbines ready to roll and will be taking orders for other manufacturers soon as well.

Oh yeah, they're selling Garands again, too.

http://www.odcmp.com

Posted by: 187

Wolfman,
Did you ever receive the carbine? What kind of shape was it in?
I'm thinking about ordering one, and taking my father to the range, before it's too late. {He carried one in the old Army days}
I've been eying the 1903's for years. On the auction page, some of them are selling for over 5K .
My buddy drove by the actual store in Ohio a few months back. He said, every morning they put out only so many 1903's and Garands. First come first served. Some were in great shape. Once they sell out for the day, they won't restock them until the following morning. Both were selling for $5-$600.
I guess the store inventory is different from what they sell on the website.
It would be nice if they sold the old M16's from the 60's-70's. I guess they don't want us firing 3 round bursts.

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Posted by: BB-59

The Garand, a damm near perfect rifle if there ever was! Besides the tell tale clang when the clip is expended when the rifle is shot dry, a rifle that functioned no matter the climate or condition.

Now before I get called every name in the book a 30.06 is probably not the best round for a police patrol carbine. That is a real crowd pleaser with a lot of power and penetration, but the function of the rifle, the set up of the controls really was and still is function first.

That is one of the reasons I like the Mini-14, being basically a scaled down M-14 reliability is good, malfunction correction, (clearing jams, double feeds, etc.), very easy. Too bad Ruger for years did not do more with the sights, (I give the nod to the ARs) accuraccy, 2' - 4' the norm, (they tell me now they have improved this area with better machinery and better fitting of the parts).

The other area is being sexy, yes sexy. An AR-15, whatever the maker looks like a predator, say a cobra, where the Ruger looks like the sheepdog guarding the flock. I bet if Ruger added an affordable pistol grip stock with some better sights and a rail or two for other goodies, you would see more PDs give them a second look.

Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

It would be nice if they sold the old M16's from the 60's-70's. I guess they don't want us firing 3 round bursts.

Because the 1968 Gun Control Act, civilians (with very few exceptions) can never own the true M14's of M16's the military used...even if the rifle has been permanently modified to fire semi-auto only. The ATF's view is "once a machine gun, always a machine gun", and no matter what modifications were done to it after it was manufactured are irrelevant.

This came to light in the early 60's when national match shooters wanted to purchase M14's for use in competition. Even though most M14's were already modified to fire semi-auto only, and Springfield Armory was offering to permanently modify M14 receivers to semi-auto, the ATF said nay. If it was originally manufactured to have full auto capability, it could not be civilian owned. The Springfield Armory and Thompson Ramo Wooldridge (TRW) made a small number of semi-auto national match rifles to be offered for civilian sale, but no M14's were ever distributed through the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM), and only the military ever received any National Match rifles.

Posted by: Wolfman

Quote:

Originally Posted by 187

Wolfman,
Did you ever receive the carbine? What kind of shape was it in?
I'm thinking about ordering one, and taking my father to the range, before it's too late. {He carried one in the old Army days}
I've been eying the 1903's for years. On the auction page, some of them are selling for over 5K .
My buddy drove by the actual store in Ohio a few months back. He said, every morning they put out only so many 1903's and Garands. First come first served. Some were in great shape. Once they sell out for the day, they won't restock them until the following morning. Both were selling for $5-$600.
I guess the store inventory is different from what they sell on the website.
It would be nice if they sold the old M16's from the 60's-70's. I guess they don't want us firing 3 round bursts.

Yes, I got the carbine - barrel manufactured in May of 1944, serial number indicated a June '44 assembly. It's in great shape. I needed to do a little cleaning up here and there but everything works smooth and it shoots very well. Only problem was that whoever had it issued back in the day must have been frustrated with fitting the sling and oiler into the stock and chiseled out the opening in the stock so the oiler would drop in. No biggie, except if the sling is loose the oiler drops right out (you can see ti in the photo). It does add a bit of uniqueness to it though and the stock can always be relpaced anyhow. Not like it has a matching number.

If you've been on the fence for a carbine and don't have a preference for a more expensive flavor, grab an Inland. They don't come with slings, oilers, or mags so bear that in mind. Plenty of places to find those however.

BTW, mailed in my Garand order. Killjoy, you get my email about splitting a case of ammo?

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB-59

Now before I get called every name in the book a 30.06 is probably not the best round for a police patrol carbine.

Well , it certainly beats that pussy pistol round .30 carbine you advocated earlier. Get back out to the Woodcock Range and breathe in some fresh air!

See the gun in the middle? it's a Tanker Garand. (First real patrol carbine) It is a real gun for real situations

Posted by: 187

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killjoy

Interesting Killjoy. I figured there was some obscure law on the books somewhere. I'm surprised they turned down Springfield's offer though, too bad. We had a stock pile of these M16's at work, from the Vietnam era.
A few years back, we traded them in for new AR15's. For some reason, I feel we got screwed. I'm sure the new one's are more dependable, but they feel like junk in comparison to the old ones.

Nice picture Wolf. I'd be happy if I get one as clean. I'm going to order one.

A few years back, my buddy and I started firing a Garand at an outdoor range. Suddenly, the whole place went silent. Everybody ran over to see what we had. They all wanted a piece of the action. It was amusing. The Garand commands respect.

Thanks guys, good info.

Posted by: Wolfman

Another email from the CMP. M1 Garand S/N 1,948,xxx coming in tomorrow AM. Mfg. date works out to be September, 1943. Pics to follow!

Posted by: Dane

Quote:

M1 GARAND "CMP SELECT" AVAILABLE BEGINNING 17 SEP, 2007.

CMP armorers expect to complete the assembly of a limited run of 1,000 "CMP SELECT" M1 Garand rifles by 30 Sep, 2007. We will begin accepting orders for these rifles on 17 Sep, 2007. This rifle will consist of a new production stock and handguard set with CMP cartouche, a new production barrel and new leather sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts will be new manufacture. Introductory price is $895. plus $22.95 S&H. The next production run of this grade will not be until 2010. Please see http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm.

Just received my "CMP Select" M1 Garand, S/N 5,288,xxx. Beautiful piece. Time to start saving for another CMP purchase...

Posted by: Wolfman

Pick up a crate or 2 of ammo - one with clips, one without.

Ya know, I never posted the picture of mine after it was cleaned up...

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