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Main Page SHERIFFS/DOC MERGER?
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: rhl

THE RUMORS ARE OUT THERE AGAIN. IS THE DOC GOING TO ABSORB THE SHERIFF'S DEPTS AROUND THE STATE? RHL

Posted by: MCOA41

Out West they already have. There no longer is a Hampden, Hampshire, Franklin or Berkshire County. The state foots the bills for all the jails in these counties but everyone is still in a Sheriff Co uniform. The sheriff is still around since it is an elected position but the jail is financed by the state. I figure if the state is paying they should just switch over to DOC. I hear they would get better benefits and pay.

Posted by: PearlOnyx

MCOA, you are correct in a sense but incorrect in another. It is true that the state has absorbed the Sheriff's Departments, but not true that the DOC itself has taken us on. The Sheriff's Departments fall somewhat under the Executive Office of Public Safety, as separate entities from the DOC. The state has been funding us for quite a few years now, because for the most part county government does not exist in Massachusetts anymore. For example, here in Essex, the only things left bearing the name County is the Sheriff's Department, which is slowly being moved towards being called the Essex Sheriff's Office, and the Registry of Deeds, which I think is also under state managrment. Although they are still referred to as County District Attorney's offices, there is some move internally towards changing their names as well. I think Essex DA's office refers to themselves as the Northeastern District Attorney's Office.

My opinions? I'm on the fence. Personally, I like the DOC because they seem to be much more organized than many of the Sheriff's Department's I've seen, inclduing Policy and overall management. Their base pay is alot more than ours as well. Their union seems to be very strong as well. The downfalls are, I would lose my details and police authority. Their scheduling is terrible compared to mine. Currently, I'm on a 4 and 2. If the DOC took over, we would have to go to their set scheduling method (i.e. you get every wednesday and thursday off). From what I hear it takes years to get a weekend day off. I think the same goes, with getting off the night shift with not a lot of time. Also, their whole rank system is completley different than ours and most departments (less top heavy) so opportunities for advancement would be less.

I really can't see it happening. The office of Sheriff is a huge political entity in this state. I really can't see it being abolished with the current political powers to be. I'm not sure it would be 100 percent positive as well. I think their would be huge resentment between county and state officers. The other huge problem would be inter institutional transfers. Guys with 10 years from the DOC could conceivably bump a guy from here to east hogwash. Serious contract problems would arise. Personally, if the DOC's schedule was better and I had an institution closer to home, I would like to work for them, but I just can't drive that far. I would however, like to see more state supervision of what actually goes on within the Sheriff's departments.

Posted by: RPD931

MCOA41... you stated that the "State foots the bill" for the Sheriffs Departments... not exactly true, remember the state also gets all the county MONEY now too... so the money absorbed from county areas are still paying for the jails and DA's...

Posted by: MCOA41

True but it is not like other states where there is a county tax. So realy (at least in the counties I lived in) the only money that the county made was from things like the Reg of Deeds.

Posted by: Macop

I think Essex DA's office refers to themselves as the Northeastern District Attorney's Office.

That makes sence seeing how in western, MA the D.A referes to them selves as the Northwest D.As office

Posted by: MCOA41

I have only heard that Northwest DA office for the Northampton, Hadley, Ware and Greenfield DA office.

They also call themselves the Northampton DA officer, and most recently the Western Hampshire Regional DA Officer and Eastern Hampshire Regional DA office.

Not sure what Hampden County DA calls itself (court house is still called Hampden County Hall of Justice) and not sure what the DA's in Berkshire county call themselves.

Posted by: mpd61

DOC! DOC! DOC!
Write to Romney! Do it for me! Make us Happeeee!!!!!!!!

Posted by: USMCTrooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by PearlOnyx

I really can't see it happening. The office of Sheriff is a huge political entity in this state. I really can't see it being abolished with the current political powers to be. I'm not sure it would be 100 percent positive as well. I think their would be huge resentment between county and state officers. The other huge problem would be inter institutional transfers. Guys with 10 years from the DOC could conceivably bump a guy from here to east hogwash. Serious contract problems would arise.

The State Police & SPAM raised many of these and other issues when the Capitol, MDC, RMV merger was first spoken of-and look what happened. That merger was much larger encompassing agencies that did not always do the exact same job. Brief examples: RMV primarily worked M-F 9-5, Capitol Police worked the Statehouse, MDC was primarily based in Boston area. I would suspect merging DOC with the Sheriff might be easier in the aspect they are closer in functions (ie corrections). Of course contract issues, pay, rank, etc will arise. Different ranks in one agency were promoted up while in another they were demoted. Despite nearly 12 years passing since Consolidation, some issues have yet to be resolved, primarily a retirement age. The issue of facial hair took 6 years to resolve! Good, bad or indifferent-those that can make it happen, who want it to happen WILL make it happen if not today soon enough.....

Posted by: Dane

PearlOnyx,

I have some friends who work for the DOC and they explained their scheduling system to me. As you said, they work a 5 and 2 and the senior people get the preferred days off. That's a pretty sucky system if you ask me. When I first met these guys, they only had a couple of years on and had days off in the middle of the week. Now that they have 10+ years on, they can get weekends off. I asked why there is no movement toward a system of rotating days off. They told me that as the COs gain more seniority and more desirable shifts, they certainly don't want to be bumped off their comfy schedule. So as long as the senior people run the union and are in the majority, it'll never happen.

Do you think that with a massive influx of people into the DOC through a merger, that these former deputies could carry enough of a voting bloc within the union to change the scheduling system? Or would the bemergered deputies carry over enough seniority that they would have no trouble getting preferred shifts under the current DOC system and therefore wouldn't really care?

Posted by: PearlOnyx

USMC,

You really dug that one up from May huh?

I can see where you are coming from. I was in diapers then, so I really can't give much of an opinion on how the SP/RMV etc. thing went.
As far as the 5 and 2 goes, it stinks! We have the 4 and 2 now, and approached the Sheriff on a 4 and 4, and received an offer for a 5 and 2 in return. I think I'd hang it up if I had Wednesday - Thursday off for the next seven or so years till I could "Put some time in." Seniority has it's place, but I think it also drives out alot of bright educated and or motivated people who get frustrated. There are alot of good guys with alot of time in that do their job day in and day out, but sometimes I wonder when I get a "Put Your Time In" from a guy, who I haven't seen move in three years, what I'm doing wrong. But, in reality, it's the only fair way to do it.

Posted by: k9sheriff

I heard that the sheriff's departments in conneticut were abolished under the state constitution and they were absorbed under their D.O.C. Can anyone tell me if they have heard the same thing or if there is any validity to this?

Posted by: Irishpride

K9,
That's 100% true. From the former New Haven County Sheriff's Office website:

On November 7, 2000, Connecticut voters overwhelmingly chose to eliminate the office of High Sheriff. After 350 years of proud service to people in the cities and towns throughout Connecticut, the end has come for the oldest law enforcement agency in the state. On December 1, 2000 all Special Deputy Sheriffs in all counties throughout the state were transferred to the Connecticut Judicial Branch and re-designated 'Judicial Marshals'. Deputy Sheriffs were also transferred to the Judicial Branch and became 'State Marshals'.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9sheriff

I heard that the sheriff's departments in conneticut were abolished under the state constitution and they were absorbed under their D.O.C. Can anyone tell me if they have heard the same thing or if there is any validity to this?

It's absolutely true. DOC handles all Sentenced inmates as well as Unsentenced. New Haven CC, Hartfordd and the other former county jails are staffed and run by CT DOC employees.

Posted by: k9sheriff

well USMCTrooper, I think now that my question is answered, your probably right, it will be just a matter of time until a D.O.C. and sheriff merger. If it happened in Conneticut it can certainly be done here. Who knows, time will tell.

Posted by: jimbo

whats wrong with taking the "politics" out of the different sheriff's departments ???? too many hacks ruin the good people's reputations - look what is going on in plymouth county - democ rats before merit

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