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Campus Police may soon patrol Boston streets

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: Sgt_110

Greetings all,

The BPA -HATES- Campus Police and has always done everything in it's power to fight against Campus Police Departments, their officers and their authority. They even proposed bills that would limit campus police officers powers on their own campuses...

Now we read that two of the city of Boston's councilors want the Campus Police to patrol off campus to help the Boston cops deal with students living off-campus. Even Captain William Evans, commander of District 14, said he would welcome a deeper
partnership with area universities as long as campus police worked
alongside Boston police officers.

That's what Campus Police have said all along. We want to work _with_ you, not instead of you when things that effect the campus happen off campus.

Read the below article for yourself.

Work safe,


----- Begin Quote ---

Ordinance aims to aid police in keeping track of off-campus students
By Heather Allen, Globe Correspondent | September 8, 2004

Seeking to prevent a repeat of the student rioting that disrupted the
city following the Patriots' Super Bowl victory in February, two city
councilors have proposed an ordinance that would require universities
in Boston to provide authorities with the contact information of
students who live off campus.

City Councilors Michael Ross and Jerry McDermott said that their
proposal, if adopted, would allow the city to preempt raucous
behavior in neighborhoods where many students live, and force
universities to take responsibility for students living off campus.

"The point of this entire legislation is to create some
accountability with the university, so that if you're going to bring
a student into the city of Boston, you're going to prepare them,
you're going to take responsibility for them, you're going to create
some accountability for your student that you bring into the city,"
Ross said. "So if there's a party down the road it's not just, 'Yeah,
it's off campus; call 911.' "

Ross, who represents the Back Bay, Fenway/Kenmore, and Mission Hill
neighborhoods, criticized local universities after a post-Super Bowl
riot on Symphony Road, during which a sport utility vehicle plowed
through a group of revelers, killing one man and critically injuring
another. Several cars were flipped over on the street and others were
vandalized. Thousands of raucous students took to the streets in
Kenmore Square as well. In the aftermath of the disturbances, Ross,
as well as Mayor Thomas M. Menino, called on universities --
particularly Northeastern University, near where the fatal accident
happened -- to better control their students, regardless of whether
they live on campus.

Northeastern officials yesterday said they are committed to working
with city officials, and pointed out that the university recently
signed an agreement with the city to build more residence halls and
move students back onto campus.

"We've been working on neighborhood relations for many, many years.
We've been doing this for decades," said Ed Klotzbier, vice president
of student affairs. "Our job is to teach them how to be responsible
students, to be ambassadors when out in the community. The Student
Code of Conduct applies on and off campus; it's not a new policy."

He added that the university stresses to incoming students the
serious consequences involved in violating the school's Code of
Conduct.

Menino yesterday said he would consider the ordinance, but he
cautioned that the February riot was an exception in the city's
relationship with universities.

"We're always trying to improve relationships with the universities,"
Menino said. "One incident doesn't make the relations between the
city and a university bad. The incident at Northeastern is not a
normal situation, but was a very unfortunate circumstance."

Police spokeswoman Beverly Ford said that currently, when campus
police receive calls about off-campus behavior, they are unable to
respond because they have no way of confirming whether residents are
students of their university, and no jurisdiction to act even if they
are.

"Campus police cannot make any arrests outside of their own
buildings," she said. "They enter the [off-campus] building as a
civilian."

If the ordinance passes, Ross said, Boston police, campus police, and
the Inspectional Services Department would have the names, addresses,
and phone numbers of any students living off campus. Campus police
officers could take action in disturbances in which students were
involved, instead of passing the call and responsibility onto Boston
Police.

Ross said the details of the proposal have not been finalized, but
that campus police could accompany Boston Police officers to the
scene, send a representative from the university's residential life
department, or call the student in for a hearing the following day.

Captain William Evans, commander of District 14, where many Boston
University and Boston College students live, said the return of
students to the city puts a strain on the police department, causing
20 to 30 calls to back up on Friday and Saturday nights.

Evans said BC, BU, and Northeastern officials each semester ride
along with officers through student neighborhoods to identify
potential trouble spots. He said he would welcome a deeper
partnership with area universities as long as campus police worked
alongside Boston police officers.

Evans said Boston police would pay particular attention this school
year to Northeastern students because of last year's riots.

"The test will be down near Northeastern," Evans said. "We'll see. I
just dread another Yankees/Sox series."

----- End Quote -----


Posted by: ecpd402

Just to let you know we already patrol the streets. Our campus is not enclosed.


Posted by: CampusOfficer

Somehow, I see BPPA stepping in to prevent this from happening.


Posted by: Wannabe1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecpd402 @ Fri 10 Sep, 2004 15:35
Just to let you know we already patrol the streets. Our campus is not enclosed.
Police spokeswoman Beverly Ford said that currently, when campus
police receive calls about off-campus behavior, they are unable to
respond because they have no way of confirming whether residents are
students of their university, and no jurisdiction to act even if they
are.



Posted by: John J

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecpd402 @ 10 Sep 2004 20:35
Just to let you know we already patrol the streets. Our campus is not enclosed.
Yes it is TRUE, you guys patrols the "streets of Boston", but what authority do you have to do this? Last time I checked you were state specials. I do not believe that you have the authority or should I say Jurisdiction. Maybe you should re read this:


Chapter 22C: Section 63 Employees of colleges, universities, other educational institutions and hospitals; appointment as special officers

Section 63. The colonel may, upon such reasonable terms and conditions as may be prescribed by him, at the request of an officer of a college, university, other educational institution or hospital licensed pursuant to section fifty-one of chapter one hundred and eleven, appoint employees of such college, university, other educational institution or hospital as special state police officers. Such special state police officers shall serve for three years, subject to removal by the colonel, and they shall have the same power to make arrests as regular police officers for any criminal offense committed in or upon lands or structures owned, used or occupied by such college, university, or other institution or hospital.
Each application for appointment as a special state police officer or a renewal thereof shall be accompanied by a fee, the amount of which shall be determined annually by the commissioner of administration under the provision of section three B of chapter seven.
The colonel may promulgate such rules and regulations as may be necessary to ensure proper standards of skill. Said rules and regulations shall conform to the provisions of chapter thirty A.


So now tell me, do you really think you should be patroling the city streets? Especially without Ch 90 powers?


Posted by: RPD931

John J,

Some of the schools are Suffolk County Deputies also... thus they powers off campus.


Posted by: mpd61

Oh my God and dead-Aunt Mildred!!!!

Wait till MarkBoston weighs in on this one! Seriously, here we go again. BPPA will probably fight this. In addition, watch carefully what you do under those sheriff "powers". don't want to go making more case law do we (hee hee)

Maybe the United Federation of Planets prime directive would be best applied here "Non-Interference."


Posted by: Channy1984

Cant see any real solution to the issue except that college students are adults so treat them like one when they tip over cars and set fires. Im sure there's plenty of Tear Gas and Stingballs left over from the DNC.


Posted by: MarkBoston

To:
(Fill in the blank) Campus Police,
(Fill in the blank) College Police,
(Fill in the blank) University Police,
Plus the dreaded “I’m also a sworn Suffolk County Deputy Sheriff”,

I have the utmost respect for any academy trained professional law enforcement officer. The Massachusetts State Police does not patrol Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, New York, or Connecticut roads. Why, because it is outside their jurisdiction. The Boston Police Department does not patrol the streets of Worcester or Taunton or Springfield or even the Town of Warren, MA. Why, because it is outside of the department’s jurisdiction.

Jurisdiction - the limits or territory within which authority may be exercised.

My point is this…you are a law enforcement professional. You get paid to provide public safety on your campus. That is where your jurisdiction is. That is where your power is. That is where your insurance coverage is. Go outside of your jurisdiction and make an arrest. But know that if you make just one small error and the case will get tossed. Then lawsuit begins…against you, not your employer who will disown you because you were outside of your jurisdiction.

I have never taken police action outside of my jurisdiction. I never will. I will and have anonymously assisted brother/sister officers, if needed. Then I walk away, no name, just who was that masked man? I don’t need a pat on the back, but I do need my home.

So the end result is this…stay inside of your jurisdiction and I’ll stay inside mine. Then we both have house to go home to.



Posted by: reno911_2004

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd61 @ Sat 11 Sep, 2004
Oh my God and dead-Aunt Mildred!!!!

Wait till MarkBoston weighs in on this one! Seriously, here we go again. BPPA will probably fight this. In addition, watch carefully what you do under those sheriff "powers". don't want to go making more case law do we (hee hee)

Maybe the United Federation of Planets prime directive would be best applied here "Non-Interference."




Posted by: stm4710

I asked a cpo at my college if they had chapter 90 when I was getting my parking sticker.
Her response was "yes on campus,accept for me I went to blah blah academy so I can get in pursuits and arrest people if they go off campus and pull over people off campus".


Posted by: Sgt Jack

Quote:
Originally Posted by stm4710 @ Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:52 pm
I asked a cpo at my college if they had chapter 90 when I was getting my parking sticker.
Her response was "yes on campus,accept for me I went to blah blah academy so I can get in pursuits and arrest people if they go off campus and pull over people off campus".
Who the hell would say that...just because someone went to such and such academy and works as a CPO..doesn't mean they all of a sudden have magical powers...Least for me it would have to be something pretty damn serious to chase someone off campus..(ie murder)....what college is this anyway..feel free to pm..


Posted by: CarRamRod

Does campus police really need ch 90?


Posted by: stm4710

Jack pm sent.


Posted by: reno911_2004

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarRamRod @ Sat 11 Sep, 2004
Does campus police really need ch 90?


Well, sometimes it'd be pretty helpful.


Posted by: ecpd402

My agency does not get involved in BPD issues. we have buildings scattered all over boston and only deal with our property. John J maybe you are confusing us with your old agency. all our officer understand our role and never conducted MV stops.


Posted by: union1

I dont understand what having Ch 90 powers has to do with the proposed idea of having campus police respond to incidents involving students off campus? If a student violates a college rule "such as underage drinking" and the school is willing to allow the officer to respond in order to take discipline action Ch 90 has NOTHING to do with this.


Posted by: Doughnut33

Just to reference the original article for a moment...

Let us say it's a Friday night in Allston/Brighton (Boston D-14) . Inspectional Services seems to be everywhere (--although outnumbered by the scores of students clogging the streets). Could anyone (Boston ) articulate Inspectional Service's enhanced role lately? They appear to have partnered on the streets with BPD lately, which sounds needed. What is their authority outside code enforcement?

My only speculation on the matter is that they are familiar with lessors and the types of dwellings and tenants...


Posted by: John J

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecpd402 @ 11 Sep 2004 20:09
My agency does not get involved in BPD issues. we have buildings scattered all over boston and only deal with our property. John J maybe you are confusing us with your old agency. all our officer understand our role and never conducted MV stops.
402, You previously stated that you patrol the streets and that your campus is not enclosed. All I am saying is that as an SSPO you do not have the jurisdiction to patrol the streets of Boston. Your college owns the buildings, you have no authority to act on Tremont, Boylston, Beacon St or whatever other street you may be driving on. And I never said anything about you guys making M/V stops. I merely pointed out the fact that you don't have Ch 90 powers, something that would be useful IF you were supposed to be patrolling the streets of Boston.

Posted 12 Sep 2004 00:28:

Quote:
Originally Posted by union1 @ 11 Sep 2004 20:21
I dont understand what having Ch 90 powers has to do with the proposed idea of having campus police respond to incidents involving students off campus? If a student violates a college rule "such as underage drinking" and the school is willing to allow the officer to respond in order to take discipline action Ch 90 has NOTHING to do with this.
Your right you obviously don't understand maybe you should read the entire posting. But just so we are clear I will explain it to you. True, Ch 90 powers do not have anything do to with the proposed idea of having Campus Police respond to off campus incidents, but that was not what I said. However you still have NO JURISDICTION off campus. So tell me Einstein how are you going to respond to something on the Boston Common or in Chinatown when you have no authority there?
What I was originally referring to was the fact that your co worker posted that he already patrols the streets of Boston.


Posted by: MarkBoston

I was trying to be nice...looks like another unit has picked up my slack.


Posted by: HousingCop

I know a few ISD (Inspectional Services Department) guys and they are Constables, believe it or not. They can enforce codes through ISD / City of Boston ordinances which they cover. They can see a gutter hanging from your house and basically walk right into your home or yard to ask you to repair it.
They can fine you for having a pitbull unleashed or unlicensed and whatever they encounter in your house (drugs / weapons) they can call in the BPD and freeze the scene for a warrant.
They can fine you and even declare a house uninhabitable and kick your sorry @ss out into the street with no legal recourse until Monday morning at 10AM in Housing Court. While not exactly a LE agency, they do inspections all over the city and have a wide variety of fines / criminal complaints to choose from.
I've caught people dumping illegally and ISD comes right down with a crew to clean it up and guess who gets the bill? The guy dumping does. He also gets his M/V towed and held until the $1,000 to $10,000 fine is payed. Depends on what he is dumping. My guy was dumping an asbestos encrusted furnace and got the big $$$$$$ fine. Plus a criminal complaint is lodged, basically the guy is screwed to the wall.
There is more than 1 way to skin a cat & these guys are masters of it. Do you think a party of drunk college kids stand a chance with the power stick these guys weild? I don't think so.


Posted by: Doughnut33

I've seen one of those bright green tickets. Those fines are incredible. (Although aren't they usually made out to "owner"?


Posted by: union1

Quote:
Originally Posted by John J @ Sat 11 Sep, 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecpd402 @ 11 Sep 2004 20:09
My agency does not get involved in BPD issues. we have buildings scattered all over boston and only deal with our property. John J maybe you are confusing us with your old agency. all our officer understand our role and never conducted MV stops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by union1 @ 11 Sep 2004 20:21
I dont understand what having Ch 90 powers has to do with the proposed idea of having campus police respond to incidents involving students off campus? If a student violates a college rule "such as underage drinking" and the school is willing to allow the officer to respond in order to take discipline action Ch 90 has NOTHING to do with this.
Your right you obviously don't understand maybe you should read the entire posting. But just so we are clear I will explain it to you. True, Ch 90 powers do not have anything do to with the proposed idea of having Campus Police respond to off campus incidents, but that was not what I said. However you still have NO JURISDICTION off campus. So tell me Einstein how are you going to respond to something on the Boston Common or in Chinatown when you have no authority there?
What I was originally referring to was the fact that your co worker posted that he already patrols the streets of Boston.
If I had to respond to the Boston Common on a request from Boston Police to respond to several of our students smoking pot or whatever here is exactly what I would do.

I would walk on the god given two feet over to the common where you say I dont have any jurisdiction (Lets put aside that my employer actualy maintains the ENTIRE section of the common, as well as leases a major section of it) I MAY even be accompanied by a member of res life staff!!! "WOW"

upon my arrival to that location I would assume that I will meet up with a Boston Police officer, yes that very same officer who probly requested that I come to that location. I would then proceed to identify the student as one of ours, and I along with the possible res life staff will bring that student up on disciplinary charges through the schools judical review board. Rather than have the lone Boston officer respond and then be responsible to contact the school.

Now John, please tell me that sitting behind that Fisher desk they did teach you a bit about campus law enforcement and that we dont always work as "police officers". The exact situation could be argued all the way in east overshoe VT. there is absolutly no powers needed. Let alone Ch 90 powers.


Posted by: Tackleberry22

Is this all tied into "Operation Neighborhood shield" that Boston has implemented to reduce the increase in murders over the past month?


Posted by: MarkBoston

Yes, BPD now has all the campus public safety officers running throughout the city enforcing the laws. This way the only people left on the streets will be criminals, so they will be easy to spot. But it is a secret operation so keep it under your hat.

Got a question for you. In your job do you carry a firearm?


Posted by: dcs2244

The point I think we are missing is that the universities and colleges are not going to accept the additional LIABILITY that would be incurred by responding to calls 'off-campus' to dwellings not owned or controlled by the college.

Further, the idea of supplying the names and addresses of rudents living off-campus to the city (any city/town) is ludicrous. It makes them second class citizens. The last time I checked, this was a free country, one can live where ever one wants. I'd go so far as to NOT give the school any address but my parents and a post office box where they could contact me. They wouldn't even have my telephone number. Some would suggest that the school could coerce students into providing this information. Unless something has changed, I don't believe there is a law requiring anyone to have a telephone. Unless the school wants to pay the student a living wage for attending, they can get stuffed. The student pays the school for goods and services vended by the school. The school is a VENDOR! Not an employer of students.

Now, as far as the schools applying their 'code of conduct' off campus: this could just as easily be applied if a student got a C90 cite (civil). Basically, what happens off-campus is none of the schools business. The off-campus student is just another citizen. When he screws-up off campus, he will be treated as such. Nothing more, nothing less. If he screws-up on campus, then the school can apply their code of conduct.

Lastly, getting back to the liability issue: if the campus police are responding to a call off-campus, to a property not owned or controlled by the school and crashes or strikes a pedestrian...who do you think will be held responsible. The college. And the city if they are foolish enough to pass the ordinance requiring such a response by the CP. Chapter 90? Forget it...too much of a liability issue for the school. If a city requires that the CP respond to calls outside their jurisdiction, will they also be obligated to provide training, i.e., academy services to the colleges within their city? As you can see, this is a can of worms.

A note to you campus cops: I don't think anyone (well, almost) has a problem with you having jurisdiction on property owned or controlled by the school, and the ways contiguous to those properties. This is not to say C90 power, but the power that allows you to arrest an idiot out on the sidewalk (like the ubiquitous bicycle thieves). Also, I was a campus cop for eleven years, so I have a pretty good idea of the issues confronting you (they really haven't changed).


Posted by: union1

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcs2244 @ Sun 12 Sep, 2004
The point I think we are missing is that the universities and colleges are not going to accept the additional LIABILITY that would be incurred by responding to calls 'off-campus' to dwellings not owned or controlled by the college.

Further, the idea of supplying the names and addresses of rudents living off-campus to the city (any city/town) is ludicrous. It makes them second class citizens. The last time I checked, this was a free country, one can live where ever one wants. I'd go so far as to NOT give the school any address but my parents and a post office box where they could contact me. They wouldn't even have my telephone number. Some would suggest that the school could coerce students into providing this information. Unless something has changed, I don't believe there is a law requiring anyone to have a telephone. Unless the school wants to pay the student a living wage for attending, they can get stuffed. The student pays the school for goods and services vended by the school. The school is a VENDOR! Not an employer of students.

Now, as far as the schools applying their 'code of conduct' off campus: this could just as easily be applied if a student got a C90 cite (civil). Basically, what happens off-campus is none of the schools business. The off-campus student is just another citizen. When he screws-up off campus, he will be treated as such. Nothing more, nothing less. If he screws-up on campus, then the school can apply their code of conduct.

Lastly, getting back to the liability issue: if the campus police are responding to a call off-campus, to a property not owned or controlled by the school and crashes or strikes a pedestrian...who do you think will be held responsible. The college. And the city if they are foolish enough to pass the ordinance requiring such a response by the CP. Chapter 90? Forget it...too much of a liability issue for the school. If a city requires that the CP respond to calls outside their jurisdiction, will they also be obligated to provide training, i.e., academy services to the colleges within their city? As you can see, this is a can of worms.

A note to you campus cops: I don't think anyone (well, almost) has a problem with you having jurisdiction on property owned or controlled by the school, and the ways contiguous to those properties. This is not to say C90 power, but the power that allows you to arrest an idiot out on the sidewalk (like the ubiquitous bicycle thieves). Also, I was a campus cop for eleven years, so I have a pretty good idea of the issues confronting you (they really haven't changed).
I think you guys are understanding this all wrong. The way that it was explained to me was the following.

The Campus Police would respond not as Police Officers but as representative of the college. This also would mean we would not be responding Lights and Whistles. We wouldnt also be enforcing any laws or codes or anything else off the College Campus.

With regard to student conduct off campus: At one time "and still do" believe what someone does off campus should be their own business, however. If you read in any college handbook "rules students must abide by" they are responsable for their own behavior on and off campus. Actions such as underage drinking and narcotics use off campus is frowned upon by colleges and the students will and do end up infront of review boards.

Again, I agree what happens off campus should be thier own business but if they would like to be a student at such school they need to abide by the rules, if you dont like it go to another school. This means you need to provide a local adress and or number. It does seem like a violation of their liberty's but I guess in a way even off campus they represent their schools. The thing that I find odd is the number of students who identify themselves as students of so and so school when they get in trouble. If they just kept their mouth shut they would only have the police to deal with and not the school

Eh


Posted by: Mikey682

Hmm...I dont know if I'd be a huge fan of being summoned to a random-off campus residence to determine who the little sh*theads belong to, thats what the Dept. of Residential Life is for. Campus Police should be just that, CAMPUS POLICE. If Boston's rule makers want to make colleges more responsible for thier students then they should work with colleges to make more residences ON campus.
And here I thought most College Res-Life departments were useless There's a good job for them


Posted by: MarkBoston

Currently under consideration is when a student of any college or university is found in violation of any laws or ordinances in the City of Boston the following will happen. The responding Boston Police Officers will tie the offending student’s legs to the rear bumper of the cruiser. The officers will then return the student to their respective college or university at a high rate of speed and for a minimum of 5 miles through heavy traffic. This way the school can hand out the harsh punishment (clapping erasers, writing 100 times on the chalkboard, etc) to the offending student.

I think this idea might work; most students just hate clapping erasers. They might even act like mature adults and not terrorize their neighbors. This way the officers do not have to play the “Do you know who my father is?” game. My answer is usually “he is the guy who will make bail for you.”


Posted by: Irishpride

This whole proposal is half-nuts (the other half is just plain stupid). Let’s say hypothetically you have a full-time student who lives in an apartment in Boston and pays his/her own rent by working a full-time job. So this person has a party @ his/her residence and the neighbors call the police, next thing Campus Police show up with someone from Residential Life? All I know is that if it were me and a CPO and a RA showed up @ my apartment I would be not be happy, and I'll leave it @ that. An SSPO has very limited authority to function as a police officer off Campus (even if they are sworn deputies or Boston Specials). The jurisdiction a CPO is not over the individual student it is over the property owed / operated / or leased by their employer so where would they even have the statutory authority to act as a police officer in the hypothetical situation I just gave.

Please do not take this as a swipe @ Campus Police Officers we have a very important role in within our respective jurisdictions but their needs to be a clearly drawn line, which should not be blurred to appease the city of Boston.


Posted by: RPD931

I just don't see how a College could hold a student accountable at a private (non-college) owned residence. If BPD or City of Boston have an issue with the occupant of the apartment (regardless if a College student) they should handle it like any other case. The Campus Police address the issues with ON-Campus residents.. off campus they (issues) belong to the City.

It's not the College's fault that the City can't handle the College Population. granted they are students, but they are also adults and are accountable for their own behavior. Like others stated, let the Colleges build Campus housing and then they'll (school) will be accountable.


Posted by: dcs2244

Once again: Off campus, none of the schools business! I don't care about the schools 'rule books' for rudent conduct. That is for conduct on-campus. The school does not own the rudent! The rudent is a free citizen, bound only by the rule of law (and his moral code, if any). While the bolsheviks that control and teach at most colleges and universities may desire to control every minute of a rudent's life, they cannot (legally). The control over these young citizens is psychological: the rudents are inexperienced and do not know their (I can't believe I'm actually saying this ) rights! Call it 'Polly Anna" syndrome, or whatever.

This having been said, you might have a valid argument for an off-campus student supplying their address/telephone and obeyance to the college rules-for-rudents...IF the kid is employed part-time by said school!

In any other event: Like Andy, the hotdog-and-chilli vendor at MIT bld #39, the school is a VENDOR: take the kids money, give him what passes for an education in the modern american academy, and shut-up!


Posted by: mpd61

Basically..................................

It's garbage, it's only proposed garbage, and it will soon DIE!!!!!



Posted by: Patrick258

Operation Neighborhood Shield is Over.


Posted by: robodope

Kev hit most of the info on the head..However, there is no conspiracy no radical changes other than a expanded attention to streets and area previosly thought of as just a ciy problem...It' s a city street with our college kids so it requires the response and coordination with both agencies....There is not a lot of chap 90 goin on in Boston so it's not a huge issue.... We work closely with BPD and there are no problems whatsoever... People think BPD is fighting with Campus Depts over calls when in reality everyone is trying to broom shit on one another..It's like a chess game..In reality we work well together and I'd say that's that...Someone lock this thread...


Posted by: RPD931

This thread is turning into BPD v. Campus PD and vice versa.

Facts shown, opinions stated..

LOCKED




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