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Main Page Limit on sheriff's authority could jeopardize gun case
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Posted by: DeputyFife

Published: 02/27/2007
Limit on sheriff's authority could jeopardize gun case
By Julie Manganis
Staff writer

PEABODY - Essex County Deputy Sheriff Gil Medeiros was out serving court papers in November when he spotted a man dressed in camouflage and carrying what looked like a gun in a case near Margin Street.
Medeiros called Peabody police, then began to follow the man, who had just gotten into a car. When the man noticed Medeiros, he sped up.
Medeiros pulled him over and had a brief exchange with the driver, who said someone had just tried to kill him with the item in the bag. Then he got out of the car and ran away, leaving the vehicle in the middle of the road.
What was in the bag turned out to be a semiautomatic rifle. And police believe the driver was a career criminal named Pablo Colon, a 27-year-old Lynn man who, because of his record, would be facing a mandatory prison term of at least 15 years.
But the case against Colon could end up being tossed out because deputy sheriffs in Massachusetts have no authority to make traffic stops. They do have arrest powers in civil matters but cannot initiate arrests based on suspected criminal activity.
In addition, the identification of Colon as the suspect in the case is based on a single photo shown to the deputy after the suspect had fled.
Because of those weaknesses in the case, Salem Superior Court Judge David Lowy agreed yesterday to reduce Colon's bail from the $20,000 set by a judge shortly after his arrest in November to $5,000 on the condition that if Colon makes bail, he must wear an electronic monitoring bracelet.
Colon was indicted earlier this month on charges of illegal possession of a large capacity firearm, being a convicted felon in possession of a firearm and illegal possession of ammunition. Defense lawyer Denise Regan said Colon "has every reason" to appear to face the charges since the initial stop may have been illegal and the identification procedure used by Peabody police was flawed.
Regan also argued that Medeiros saw only a long, black case and not the actual gun, raising a question of whether there was legal justification to make a stop - even if the deputy had the authority to do so.
Prosecutor Michael Sheehan, while acknowledging there are some legal issues to be addressed, said Colon's criminal record - which includes convictions for cocaine and marijuana distribution, assault and battery, and escape - and the potential 15-year sentence he is facing, warrant a high bail. He urged Lowy to keep the same $20,000 bail.

Colon was identified after police towed the abandoned car and learned that it was registered to a Lynn woman who said her boyfriend, Colon, had been using the vehicle. Peabody police found the gun in the car during what is known as an "inventory search," a permissible search of a vehicle when it is being towed, to document items inside in case something is later reported missing.
Police printed a copy of Colon's driver's license history, which included a picture, and showed it to Medeiros, who said the photo looked like the man he stopped.
Colon was arrested the following day in Lynn. He has been in jail since then.
Lowy scheduled a status hearing in the case for tomorrow, when he will hear from a probation officer concerning potential conditions for Colon's release.

Posted by: MM1799

Quote:

Medeiros pulled him over and had a brief exchange with the driver,

And if this nutjob pulled out a gun what training does this deputy have to fall back on the protect himself and others?

Quote:

But the case against Colon could end up being tossed out because deputy sheriffs in Massachusetts have no authority to make traffic stops.

In case any of you deputies missed it.

Strip the "blues" off your cruisers and put some rotating amber lights there.
Know your damn job and do it well. Stop trying to branch out. Because of this idiot's eagerness to be a hero, a dangerous individual could be free. Thanks guys!

Posted by: j809

But what about BAEZ case, they told me i can do anything, anywhere.

Posted by: gooday

Sounds like this guy may just be a civil prosses server to top it all off. He probably thought he was doing the right thing but I agree the smart thing would have been to follow him until Peabody police arrived. If the guy started to dangerously speed the deputy could have said he felt the man was a danger to the public and stopped him on that point. Sounds like a weak case now.

Posted by: bbelichick

Limit on Security Guard's authority could jeopardize gun case
By Julie Manganis
Staff writer

Holyoke - Holyoke Mall Security Guard Gil Medeiros was out driving around in his 2004 Kia Security Cruiser in November when he spotted a man dressed in camouflage and carrying what looked like a gun in a case near Essex Street.
Medeiros called Holyoke police, then began to follow the man, who had just gotten into a car. When the man noticed Medeiros, he sped up.
Medeiros pulled him over and had a brief exchange with the driver, who said someone had just tried to kill him with the item in the bag. Then he got out of the car and ran away, leaving the vehicle in the middle of the road.
What was in the bag turned out to be a semiautomatic rifle. And police believe the driver was a career criminal named Pablo Colon, a 27-year-old Holyoke man who, because of his record, would be facing a mandatory prison term of at least 15 years.
But the case against Colon could end up being tossed out because Security Guards in Massachusetts have no authority to make traffic stops. They do have "Stop or I'll Say Stop Again" powers but cannot initiate arrests based on suspected criminal activity.
In addition, the identification of Colon as the suspect in the case is based on a single photo shown to the deputy after the suspect had fled.
Because of those weaknesses in the case, Hampden Superior Court Judge David Lowy agreed yesterday to reduce Colon's bail from the $20,000 set by a judge shortly after his arrest in November to $5,000 on the condition that if Colon makes bail, he must wear an electronic monitoring bracelet.
Colon was indicted earlier this month on charges of illegal possession of a large capacity firearm, being a convicted felon in possession of a firearm and illegal possession of ammunition.

Posted by: MM1799

I think someone changed some words around..

.. to make it more accurate.

Posted by: j809

So this guy was a security guard at the Mall.

Posted by: gooday

I couldnt find the article

Posted by: Vader

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbelichick

Limit on Security Guard's authority could jeopardize gun case
By Julie Manganis
Staff writer

Holyoke - Holyoke Mall Security Guard Gil Medeiros was out driving around in his 2004 Kia Security Cruiser in November when he spotted a man dressed in camouflage and carrying what looked like a gun in a case near Essex Street.
Medeiros called Holyoke police, then began to follow the man, who had just gotten into a car. When the man noticed Medeiros, he sped up.
Medeiros pulled him over and had a brief exchange with the driver, who said someone had just tried to kill him with the item in the bag. Then he got out of the car and ran away, leaving the vehicle in the middle of the road.
What was in the bag turned out to be a semiautomatic rifle. And police believe the driver was a career criminal named Pablo Colon, a 27-year-old Holyoke man who, because of his record, would be facing a mandatory prison term of at least 15 years.
But the case against Colon could end up being tossed out because Security Guards in Massachusetts have no authority to make traffic stops. They do have "Stop or I'll Say Stop Again" powers but cannot initiate arrests based on suspected criminal activity.
In addition, the identification of Colon as the suspect in the case is based on a single photo shown to the deputy after the suspect had fled.
Because of those weaknesses in the case, Hampden Superior Court Judge David Lowy agreed yesterday to reduce Colon's bail from the $20,000 set by a judge shortly after his arrest in November to $5,000 on the condition that if Colon makes bail, he must wear an electronic monitoring bracelet.
Colon was indicted earlier this month on charges of illegal possession of a large capacity firearm, being a convicted felon in possession of a firearm and illegal possession of ammunition.

Why's it gotta be Holyoke???

Posted by: k9sheriff

Just don't hate me, it's not my fault.I'm going to meditate now and act like this never happened!

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

Why's it gotta be Holyoke???

Purple Knights=EVIL.

Just a fact, man.

Posted by: HousingCop

So if "Colon The Career Criminal" goes postal at a mall with the long gun and D/S Medieros stops him with a double tap, he's the hero.
Medieros basically does the right thing by calling the cops and following him. Colon pulls over and has an exchange with the D/S and runs away and now Medieros is the goat.
How about shifting some blame to the cop who showed him a single photo instead of the six-pack lineup?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Blamed for taking action, blamed for putting on blinders. You can't win with the general public, the media or with fellow members of this board.

Posted by: lawdog671

HOUSING COP....you're kinda talking apples and oranges though....If he HAD gone postal ...completely different story because it's an ongoing active threat to the public...versus potential but not happening threat. I'm sure he had best intentions but without the authority to do it that won't hold water in court, we all know that.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooday

I couldnt find the article

http://www.salemnews.com/punews/local_story_058121404

Posted by: pahapoika

now if he was a special, would the charge stick ?

Posted by: secret squirrel

If this deputy didn't do anything, then this moron would probably still have the gun. It's off the street, and it would be real nice to put him in prison for 15+ years but Mass gives too much protection to criminals. Give them chap 90 powers and full powers of arrest. Who cares...the more the merrier!!!!! Just make sure there is consistency with the level of training.......

Posted by: Wolfman

If I hear one more person say, "The more the merrier", I'M going to go postal...

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by pahapoika

now if he was a special, would the charge stick ?

All deputies are special...

Special Olympics.

Posted by: PearlOnyx

I thought the newspaper was a little askew regarding the authority of Deputies in MA, but maybe I read it wrong too. In certain circumstances, a Deputy can initiate an investigation in to a criminal matter, but as others have mentioned, it's limited. The most important fact that needs to be determined is if there was a breach of the peace here. I'm still confused how he determined that there was a gun in this case, but I'm not going to second guess. I wasn't there.

Posted by: crazy irish

Oh I'm jumo=ping right in on this one!

The Guy is not even a CO. Don't even think he went to an Academy!
I am in full agreement with every cop on this site!
We are Co's you are PO's it's that simple. We don't have chapter90 you do.
This isn't the only time this has happened. about a year or so ago a CO (deputy sheriff) was transporting inmates from the prerelease center in lawrence to work prerelease jobs. It was about 5 or 6 am. He uses a dark blue van with police plates and a flashlight yes a flashlight to pullover a woman going to work on 495. She was scared to death and called her husband..........................a high ranking state trooper!!!!!!!!! when other troopers showed up he gave them a hard time and was charged with all kinds of infractions and had to go to court to face charges. funny thing though because he was a friend of the HIGH sheriff of essex county it never hit the papers and was swept under the rug. This Copped up Retard should have been fired on the spot but instead he keeps his job without even a suspention......but we have people getting suspended left and right for the dumbest things. Gee none of them broke the law!
This is a perfect example of how County Sheriffs are out of control.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by PearlOnyx

I thought the newspaper was a little askew regarding the authority of Deputies in MA, but maybe I read it wrong too. In certain circumstances, a Deputy can initiate an investigation in to a criminal matter, but as others have mentioned, it's limited. The most important fact that needs to be determined is if there was a breach of the peace here. I'm still confused how he determined that there was a gun in this case, but I'm not going to second guess. I wasn't there.

The courts have ruled over and over that the mere fact of carrying a gun is not a crime. According to the article, he was pulled over after he "sped up"
(do I hear chapter 90?)

You can have the best street sense in the world. But if you can't document your actions within the parameters, you'll fall flat on your face every time.

I'd be really curious as to find out what this guy knows about search and seizure. Or is he out there just trying to play cop not knowing what he is doing.

Posted by: 2-Delta

Just shoot the guy in the face, it's easy.

Posted by: MM1799

Quote:

Originally Posted by HousingCop

Blamed for taking action, blamed for putting on blinders.

If you don't have the authority to take that action then yes. Had Medieros followed and continued to call in his location and tried to follow (at a distance) once the suspect saw him he would have been praised for his diligence and keen observation(s).

This situation probably could've been alleviated had they stripped the blue lights off their cruisers. I know they look good in the parade, but let's be serious. No blue lights = suspect probably never sees his cruiser and the police show up before deputy dawg takes the law into his own hands.

Posted by: uspresident1

This guy obviously didn't have a lot of time to make a decision. What if he doesn't try to stop this guy and he goes and shoots up a school. Yes I know...."what if, what if, what if". Remember sometimes it's not what you do that gets you in trouble...its what you don't do.

Posted by: gooday

This guy was a civil deputy if he was serving papers. No training no c/o backround no arrest authority.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooday

No training no arrest authority.

Yup, sounds like a Deputy to me.

Posted by: pahapoika

uh , there's 2 versions of this story. the 1st is a slight at deputies and the other is the real story ?

Posted by: MM1799

Quote:

Originally Posted by uspresident1

This guy obviously didn't have a lot of time to make a decision. What if he doesn't try to stop this guy and he goes and shoots up a school. Yes I know...."what if, what if, what if". Remember sometimes it's not what you do that gets you in trouble...its what you don't do.

Since that didn't happen, he has no authority to do what he did. He was basically a civilian approaching this gunman. Real good. And if this guy starts shooting, what the hell would this deputy do? Do you think he has the training needed to neutralize the threat of an armed gunman? Be serious.I know situations can be tense and dangerous, but how are you helping the situation by doing things without authority?

You want to talk about "what if's"... Let's say this deputy stops this guy and the guy pulls a gun out. Now what is the deputy going to do? Or god forbid the suspect gets irrated by the presence of what he thought was the police and starts shooting towards the deputy? What if the shots miss the deputy and hit innocence bystanders? Then what? Exactly.

Posted by: 209

What other counties do not have road patrols besides Berkshire?

Posted by: HousingCop

Quote:

Originally Posted by MM1799

In the United States, every day, armed citizens thwart crime by either displaying handguns or actually using them. Most, if not all do not have police training or experience. He obviously can tell what Mr. Colon is carrying is a gun case and that people don't use them to carry dirty laundry. A gun in a case on the front seat is easily accessable.
If he were not a D/S or paper server and was Joe SixPack with a LTC, he'd be lauded as a citizen hero. As I stated before, it's damed if you do, damed if you don't.
From the article provided, it makes it look as if he was a C.O. / D.S. and not one of the paper servers. Bottom line is there's one less long gun on the streets that can punch through our vests with ease. The liberal court system in MA and motions to supress will make sure this never sees trial.

Posted by: gooday

Quote:

Originally Posted by 209

What other counties do not have road patrols besides Berkshire?

Non that I know of do. Norfolk and Suffolk dont get involved with much on the street at all except occasional details here and there. From what it looks like if there is anything that has to do with anything outside other than that its some hack that never worked inside that gets the sweet gig.

Posted by: MM1799

Quote:

Originally Posted by HousingCop

Please tell me you are not comparing law-ignorant citizens protecting themselves and their livelihood to a deputy sheriff who is overstepping his authority and making traffic stops? What exactly did this deputy sheriff accomplish? The suspect got away, to later be apprehended by the police. Maybe if the suspect shot a few people while running away from the deputy, you'd see how ridiculuous the deputy's actions were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HousingCop

A gun in a case on the front seat is easily accessable.If he were not a D/S or paper server and was Joe SixPack with a LTC, he'd be lauded as a citizen hero. As I stated before, it's damed if you do, damed if you don't.

This wouldn't happen to Joe Sixpack because Joe doesn't have blue flashy lights and a cruiser.. the suspect would've remained ignorant to his presence and the police would have shown up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HousingCop

From the article provided, it makes it look as if he was a C.O. / D.S. and not one of the paper servers.

A CO conducting traffic stops on public roads? That's a new one..

Quote:

Originally Posted by HousingCop

Bottom line is there's one less long gun on the streets that can punch through our vests with ease. The liberal court system in MA and motions to supress will make sure this never sees trial.

Bottom line is Colon is going to be set loose to get new guns and continue in his deviant ways..

Posted by: Otto

From the article...But the case against Colon could end up being tossed out because deputy sheriffs in Massachusetts have no authority to make traffic stops. They do have arrest powers in civil matters but cannot initiate arrests based on suspected criminal activity...

This is clearly not true. The article does not state form where the writer got this this "fact." Nor is there any basis of knowledge articulated in the entire first half of the article.

The guy was speeding. So the stop is good. There does not need to be a breach of the peace to make the stop. Depending on the circumstances, maybe it was a breach of the peace. The article does not say how fast. Was it in a congested area? Should he have just stopped following him?

He is wearing camouflage and carrying a gun case and tells the deputy it contains something with which someone tried to kill him. Was a search warrant obtained? The article does not say. Did the deputy sieze it or did the police?

crazy irish: The Guy is not even a CO. Don't even think he went to an Academy!...We are Co's you are PO's it's that simple. We don't have chapter90 you do.

Being a CO has nothing to do with it. So, he may have an academy? You are wrong about Chapter 90.

gooday: This guy was a civil deputy if he was serving papers. No training no c/o backround no arrest authority.

There is no distinction in law between a "civil" or "criminal" deputy. Both have the same authority and it is independent from CO background.

HousingCop:
In the United States, every day, armed citizens thwart crime by either displaying handguns or actually using them. Most, if not all do not have police training or experience. He obviously can tell what Mr. Colon is carrying is a gun case and that people don't use them to carry dirty laundry. A gun in a case on the front seat is easily accessible.
If he were not a D/S or paper server and was Joe SixPack with a LTC, he'd be lauded as a citizen hero. As I stated before, it's damed if you do, damed if you don't.
From the article provided, it makes it look as if he was a C.O. / D.S. and not one of the paper servers. Bottom line is there's one less long gun on the streets that can punch through our vests with ease. The liberal court system in MA and motions to supress will make sure this never sees trial.

Sounds like you are applying common sense and not prejudice to the scenario. Stop it.

P.S. This does not mean I advocate sheriff's patrolling (although some here will still accuse me of it).

Posted by: 4ransom

The simple fact that this guy just got up and ran away from the traffic stop is a perfect example of how the deputies don't have the proper training to be involved in these incidents. I suggest to you that if this individual was properly trained in conducting traffic stops and had the power to take this man into custody immediately, this man would not have escaped.

Not all traffic stops are middle class good citizens who weren't paying attention and went 15 miles over the speed limit. Every stop runs the risk of becoming a felony stop and a very dangerous situation for the officer, which is why only people with proper police academy training and powers should be conducting traffic stops.

For their safety and the safety of the public around them.

Posted by: Otto

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ransom

The simple fact that this guy just got up and ran away from the traffic stop is a perfect example of how the deputies don't have the proper training to be involved in these incidents. I suggest to you that if this individual was properly trained in conducting traffic stops and had the power to take this man into custody immediately, this man would not have escaped...

So, people do not run or escape from police officers?

Posted by: nirtallica

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto

From the article...But the case against Colon could end up being tossed out because deputy sheriffs in Massachusetts have no authority to make traffic stops. They do have arrest powers in civil matters but cannot initiate arrests based on suspected criminal activity...

This is clearly not true. The article does not state form where the writer got this this "fact." Nor is there any basis of knowledge articulated in the entire first half of the article.

The guy was speeding. So the stop is good. There does not need to be a breach of the peace to make the stop. Depending on the circumstances, maybe it was a breach of the peace. The article does not say how fast. Was it in a congested area? Should he have just stopped following him?

He is wearing camouflage and carrying a gun case and tells the deputy it contains something with which someone tried to kill him. Was a search warrant obtained? The article does not say. Did the deputy sieze it or did the police?

crazy irish: The Guy is not even a CO. Don't even think he went to an Academy!...We are Co's you are PO's it's that simple. We don't have chapter90 you do.

Being a CO has nothing to do with it. So, he may have an academy? You are wrong about Chapter 90.

gooday: This guy was a civil deputy if he was serving papers. No training no c/o backround no arrest authority.

There is no distinction in law between a "civil" or "criminal" deputy. Both have the same authority and it is independent from CO background.

HousingCop:
In the United States, every day, armed citizens thwart crime by either displaying handguns or actually using them. Most, if not all do not have police training or experience. He obviously can tell what Mr. Colon is carrying is a gun case and that people don't use them to carry dirty laundry. A gun in a case on the front seat is easily accessible.
If he were not a D/S or paper server and was Joe SixPack with a LTC, he'd be lauded as a citizen hero. As I stated before, it's damed if you do, damed if you don't.
From the article provided, it makes it look as if he was a C.O. / D.S. and not one of the paper servers. Bottom line is there's one less long gun on the streets that can punch through our vests with ease. The liberal court system in MA and motions to supress will make sure this never sees trial.

Sounds like you are applying common sense and not prejudice to the scenario. Stop it.

P.S. This does not mean I advocate sheriff's patrolling (although some here will still accuse me of it).

When will you stop with your delusions of grandeiur? You and your FELLOW CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS do not have Chap 90 authority. Are you issed a violations book? Maybe if you and your co workers accepted you role and understood your job description, things like this would not happen. Mr. Colon will walk. Maybe if you went to court, if you actualy had the authority to make arrests, and testified, you would know that it takes a lot less than this for someone to get off with a dissmissed finding. That CO is lucky a shootout did not ensue. I bet he was not even wearing a vest.

Posted by: Otto

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica

I have no delusions of grandeur. You are correct, correction officers do not have Chapter 90 powers. Deputy sheriffs do. i understand my (our) role. Did you read my P.S?

I have graduated a full-time municipal police academy. I have worked as a municipal police officer. I have arrested hundreds of people as a deputy sheriff and have yet to be sued for arresting someone without authority. I have testified in court many times. I know things get tossed even when we believe we did everthing right.

You make a lot of assumptions.

Posted by: SinePari

We all know little to nothing but what the paper wrote. The deputy COULD be a sworn reserve/special/auxiliary with full-time academy training, or even a retired freakin NYPD...who the f*ck knows? Who cares? If it becomes bad case law that affects OUR occupation (sworn police officers), then you should care, but it certainly won't affect OUR role on the streets.

I don't condone the actions as we have read them, but it certainly doesn't make me pound my hand on the podium (Stalin) yelling and screaming that deputies shouldn't be on the streets. There are certainly more interesting things going on on the streets than this article, and it's nothing to get all torqued up over.

Posted by: nirtallica

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto

Ok, so I will assume you are not a Deputy Sheriff in this state, or am I assuming wrong? And if you are, you must work for Middlesex, because they are the only that I know of who send members of their App squad through Hyde Park, or am I assuming wrong again? If that's the case, you a a liar when you state you have arrested hundreds of people. I personally know someone on the App Squad and I have yet to hear about "hundreds of arrests."

Posted by: crazy irish

Trust me this guy from Essex county does not have chapter 90 thats why the the guy is going to walk.
The guy is a political hack who donates a ton of money to work at the writ office in Salem. He has zero training. He also has a cruiser, realy cool lights to play with, a full duty belt that batman would love, a gun, pepper spray.
all this To deliver civil process?

Posted by: SinePari

The real travesty here is that there are hundreds of FELONS getting cut loose and walk out of the court rooms around the commonwealth EVERY DAY. And they were arrested by sworn, fully-trained, and employed as full-time police officers.

So yeah, this deputy gets his five minutes of fame, or a thread that won't die, and the rest of us continue to get our bags kicked in because of the judges who are held unaccountable in the criminal justice system.

Posted by: dcs2244

[quote=Otto]

The guy was speeding. So the stop is good. There does not need to be a breach of the peace to make the stop. Depending on the circumstances, maybe it was a breach of the peace. The article does not say how fast. Was it in a congested area? Should he have just stopped following him?

He is wearing camouflage and carrying a gun case and tells the deputy it contains something with which someone tried to kill him. Was a search warrant obtained? The article does not say. Did the deputy sieze it or did the police?

crazy irish: The Guy is not even a CO. Don't even think he went to an Academy!...We are Co's you are PO's it's that simple. We don't have chapter90 you do.

Being a CO has nothing to do with it. So, he may have an academy? You are wrong about Chapter 90.

gooday: This guy was a civil deputy if he was serving papers. No training no c/o backround no arrest authority.

There is no distinction in law between a "civil" or "criminal" deputy. Both have the same authority and it is independent from CO background.

HousingCop:
In the United States, every day, armed citizens thwart crime by either displaying handguns or actually using them.

Where to begin? The article did not state that Colon was speeding, but that he "speeded up", which I believe means he accelerated. Please explain to us just what magnitude and direction of delta V is unlawful in this state. When does it constitute a "breach of the peace"?

Since there is no articulated reason to stop the vehicle, what Colon told the deputy is of no moment: the stop is not lawful. There was no mention of a search warrant.

Why is crazy irish wrong about chapter 90? Because you say so?

HC, you're right: ARMED CITIZENS. Was the deputy armed? Is it reasonable to show up at a gunfight armed with just your 'dukes' or a knife? Especially if you think "hey...that could be a gun case..." or "hey...that looks like a violin case, but it could have a tommy gun in there..." and ONE is Not Armed?

It's easy to sit here and 'armchair quarterback' this event. If we are going to suggest "coulda, woulda, shoulda" scenarios, please provide facts to back it up. "You're wrong about chapter 90..." doesn't cut it.

I really don't care if the kid had the right to stop the vehicle...we can only base our criticism of the event on the article, and I'm sure it's has not been exhaustively researched...

Posted by: SOT

Way to smart and analytical for me...you ruined all the fun.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT_II

Way to smart and analytical for me...you ruined all the fun.

I'll break it down for you. The only difference between a deputy and a whacker is that the whacker has no money to spend on campaigns.

It doesn't get any more basic than that.

Posted by: CivilServiceNO1Fan

I don't mean to troll on this thread, but this is idiotic. The whole system is messed up. I don't blame D.S. or C.O., as they are a hard working group of people.

When there is confusion in the law and authority, there is confusion in execution. In other states, COs are granted authority when acting in transporting/certain detail roles. If employees carry a gun, or drive a cruiser, or have arrest authority, etc, we should force the academy and certification. Look at NY with Police/Peace Officer status. Perhaps instead of taking it out on them, we should blame the system that allows us to have these questions and issues?

Posted by: pahapoika

we should blame the system that allows us to have these questions and issues?

a rule book ! just like sports . that way there would be no cheating

</IMG>

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by pahapoika

we should blame the system that allows us to have these questions and issues?

a rule book ! just like sports . that way there would be no cheating

</IMG>

I propose rule #4 paragraph 3 subsection (a)

No elected person shall receive anything of monetary value in exchange for creating an environment of perceived or real authority.

Posted by: PearlOnyx

94C,

That was sort of what I was getting at. What was this guy doing wrong by carrying a weapon in a case? It wasn't openly displayed. There was no breach of the peace that I can see. Maybe he was a hunter? =) Maybe I'm reading the article wrong, but what was his PC? Even in the people's republic of Massachusetts guns aren't totally illegal.

As far as what Crazy Irish has to say, I worked for Essex County for five years, and as far as their policies for dealing with "police matters", they simply don't have thier stuff together. Even if this guy was trained (I've only met him once, so I can't say), I don't think the department has the policy or the infastructure in place to "play cop". You go out on details without a radio, and even if your lucky enough to get a car, you don't have radio coverage in half the county. No life line if you need it. Just my personal opinion...

I worked details as a Deputy and as a Reserve, and now that I work as a police officer full time, and have gone through an academy, I just don't see how the Reserve academy in MA really prepares you to do your job safely. It's not a knock on anyone, just what I've seen from experience on both sides of the fence.

Posted by: 94c

What we need is a case to put all this to rest and it might be this one. (Or one like it).

Here you have a deputy with Chapter 90 powers but no means to execute those powers. So you stop someone for a motor vehicle violation that you have no way of enforcing since you don't have a citation book.

A gun or drugs are found. This would make for a perfect defense of a "fishing expedition" because like I said, the deputy may have the power but he didn't have the means, to enforce the law he was basing his stop on.

Sounds like a good motion to suppress.

Posted by: CivilServiceNO1Fan

My point is just that a DS shouldn't vary by county in what they are or are not allowed to do. A title is supposed to describe what your job is. If DS and COs have ch 90, or carry, or arrest authority, or whatever, it should be so stated and no grey area. And if they get authority and training to earn a title that has certain powers and responsibility, they should get the respect others in the same position get. I do think it is rough if a DS has a full academy and gets painted with a broad brush, and feel the same for an inside the walls guy who is assumed a whacker til otherwise proven.

Posted by: masscopguy

I missed the part of the story that said the DS was in a marked car with blue lights.
I don't understand why anyone would need a marked county vehicle to serve papers. I don't know if they still do, but the Civil Processes servers in Middlesex County drove their personal vehicles to do their part time work.

The Sheriff does have the power to limit the authority of those he or she appoints as a Deputy. There are some Deputies in Middlesex County for example, who have all the powers of a fully appointed Deputy except the authority to serve civil process.

The Deputy in this case had good extincts. He was smart to call Peobody but very stupid when he stoped the vehicle.

I don't ever remember being trained in MV stops at the Reserve Academy.

As for Crazy Irish. I feel for you. You obviously hate your job and the present administration. If you are planning to stay with the ECSD why don't you make your life easier by cozying up to Sheriff FC or move on to another department?

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

I am a full-time police officer for a municipality and a few years back I was off-duty in the city next door when i observed two guys in a vehicle, the driver handed over a handgun to the passenger. I FOLLOWED and CALLED 911 on my cell phone like every one should have. PD stopped the car, guys fled the vehicle and the one with the handgun turned around and popped a couple of rounds at the officers. These guys already shot someone a few days back and they were ready to do a drive-by on rival drug dealers.Now imagine if i decided to have stopped this vehicle, off-duty and get involved in a shooting(i wasn't carrying at the time). Why don't some of you people use your freaking heads, you want to be the good guy, then act as a witness and do nothing outside your scope of employment. I am a cop and don't go around other towns trying to be a cop and being supercop. Please sheriffs, stick to paper processing and jails, leave the police work to us. We don't need you, if we did we would have called.

Posted by: Otto

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica

I am a deputy sheriff in this state. I do not work for Middlesex and have never been on an apprehension squad. Iam not lying.

You seem to be one of those people that assumes that all sheriffs offices are run exactly alike. Everywhere else must be exactly like it is where you are. If you haven't seen it or heard about it, it cannot exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy irish

Trust me this guy from Essex county does not have chapter 90 thats why the the guy is going to walk.
The guy is a political hack who donates a ton of money to work at the writ office in Salem. He has zero training. He also has a cruiser, realy cool lights to play with, a full duty belt that batman would love, a gun, pepper spray.
all this To deliver civil process?

If he is a sworn deputy sheriff, he has Chapter 90 authority regardless if he is a hack or is assigned to deliver process. He may be all those things you say, but he has the authority.

By the way, I know a deputy who was "just serving process" when he was attacked with a butcher knife by the "crazy lady" he was evicting.

[quote=dcs2244]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto

Where to begin? The article did not state that Colon was speeding, but that he "speeded up", which I believe means he accelerated. Please explain to us just what magnitude and direction of delta V is unlawful in this state. When does it constitute a "breach of the peace"?

Since there is no articulated reason to stop the vehicle, what Colon told the deputy is of no moment: the stop is not lawful. There was no mention of a search warrant.

Why is crazy irish wrong about chapter 90? Because you say so?

HC, you're right: ARMED CITIZENS. Was the deputy armed? Is it reasonable to show up at a gunfight armed with just your 'dukes' or a knife? Especially if you think "hey...that could be a gun case..." or "hey...that looks like a violin case, but it could have a tommy gun in there..." and ONE is Not Armed?

It's easy to sit here and 'armchair quarterback' this event. If we are going to suggest "coulda, woulda, shoulda" scenarios, please provide facts to back it up. "You're wrong about chapter 90..." doesn't cut it.

I really don't care if the kid had the right to stop the vehicle...we can only base our criticism of the event on the article, and I'm sure it's has not been exhaustively researched...

I stand corrected on the speeding. If he wasn't speeding, it will and should get tossed.

As you say, the article has probably not been exhaustively researched. As I stated earlier, not one "fact" mentioned in the whole first half of the article is attributed to anyone. Yet some here just assume the deputy is untrained, powerless, and unarmed (or armed, for no reason).

Crazy Irish is not wrong because I say so. For the thousandth time, "Comm v. Baez" says so.

Posted by: ferus fidelitas

is anyone else tired of people who purchased their jobs by holding campaign signs, making phone calls or a hefty donation and then being appointed to a position they would not otherwise been considered for ? Going to a very abbreviated "academy" and having ZERO 9-1-1 experience does not make you a police officer... Police are the Police - Deputies in this State bought their job and have tremondous delusions.... I respect the K9 and Transportation Deputies because they earned their deputy status by working inside the jail, rather than wannabes who simply made a donation to the sheriff...........huge difference. Making a campaign donation, sucking up or holding a sign and then going to a joke of a part time "academy' and then having zero 9-1-1 call experience does not make you a cop or give you the right to pull people over - Scew Baez .... try pulling me over - i'll lock your misguided ass up

Posted by: crazy irish

Quote:

Originally Posted by masscopguy

I missed the part of the story that said the DS was in a marked car with blue lights.
I don't understand why anyone would need a marked county vehicle to serve papers. I don't know if they still do, but the Civil Processes servers in Middlesex County drove their personal vehicles to do their part time work.

The Sheriff does have the power to limit the authority of those he or she appoints as a Deputy. There are some Deputies in Middlesex County for example, who have all the powers of a fully appointed Deputy except the authority to serve civil process.

The Deputy in this case had good extincts. He was smart to call Peobody but very stupid when he stoped the vehicle.

I don't ever remember being trained in MV stops at the Reserve Academy.

As for Crazy Irish. I feel for you. You obviously hate your job and the present administration. If you are planning to stay with the ECSD why don't you make your life easier by cozying up to Sheriff FC or move on to another department?

Sorry, I like my job and plan on staying here a long time. You are right I do HATE the current admin and the Sheriff. So by cozying up are you suggesting I do what this hack freak did and donate 500.00 a year to my boss? sorry Scumbag I'l leave that up to you and you looser bought my badge hacks. I prefer to look myself in the mirror and my kids in the eyes knowing I've done whats right in life. Something you and Frank Couisins where obviously never taught by your parents

Posted by: nirtallica

[quote=Otto]I am a deputy sheriff in this state. I do not work for Middlesex and have never been on an apprehension squad. Iam not lying.

You seem to be one of those people that assumes that all sheriffs offices are run exactly alike. Everywhere else must be exactly like it is where you are. If you haven't seen it or heard about it, it cannot exist.

If he is a sworn deputy sheriff, he has Chapter 90 authority regardless if he is a hack or is assigned to deliver process. He may be all those things you say, but he has the authority.

By the way, I know a deputy who was "just serving process" when he was attacked with a butcher knife by the "crazy lady" he was evicting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcs2244

Ok so you are on a task force. And how did you wind up with that? Or you are on Bristol County Do tell.

Posted by: Kb1100

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferus fidelitas

Deputies in this State bought their job and have tremondous delusions.... I respect the K9 and Transportation Deputies because they earned their deputy status by working inside the jail, rather than wannabes who simply made a donation to the sheriff...........huge difference.

Everyone who went through middlesex academy graduate as a deputy. But that doesn't mean dick. I don't know about other counties

Posted by: dcs2244

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto

Crazy Irish is not wrong because I say so. For the thousandth time, "Comm v. Baez" says so.

Otto, I know you've (and others) cited "Commonwealth v. Baez" a thousand times, in as many threads. There are a lot of new people here that have not been involved in those discussions: just cite it so everyone is on the same page, and we avoid assumptions/questions that have been answered ad-nauseum the last thousand times this topic was flailed.

That way they can research the case law themselves, if they are sufficiently interested...or at least get the gist from the context of the comments if they aren't.

Please note: this isn't limited to this topic...always cite sources: that way we get the facts out of the way and can let the "bag-kicking" begin!

</IMG></IMG>

Posted by: MM1799

Facts? We don't need to stinkin' facts!

Posted by: j809

Otto works for Worcester County and he might even be the sheriff himself.

P.S. What's the going rate for a CH90 book these days.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcs2244

</IMG></IMG>

Baez DOES say that they are authorized to issue CMVI's. But it also says that they do not have any arrest powers found in Ch.90s21 unless it amounts to a breach of the peace.

So Deputies CANNOT arrest for unlicensed, unauthorized use, operating after suspension, leaving scene personal injury etc.

This is what these Deputies without citation books fail to tell you when they brag about their chapter 90 powers.

Deputy: "license and registration please"
Motorist: "is there a problem, officer"
Deputy: "you ran a red light, so give me your license."
Motorist: "Sorry Officer, I never had a license." "Are you gonna give me a ticket?" "Are you gonna arrest me?"

Deputy: "Uh, I really have no citations, and I can't arrest you, so YOU
BETTER NOT DO IT AGAIN!"

what a pathetic attempt at police work. I would love to find out who is handing out these books to the deputies since they are not authorized to have them. I would personally embarrass that chief and his department.

Posted by: nirtallica

[quote=94c]Baez DOES say that they are authorized to issue CMVI's. But it also says that they do not have any arrest powers found in Ch.90s21 unless it amounts to a breach of the peace.

So Deputies CANNOT arrest for unlicensed, unauthorized use, operating after suspension, leaving scene personal injury etc.

This is what these Deputies without citation books fail to tell you when they brag about their chapter 90 powers.

Deputy: "license and registration please"
Motorist: "is there a problem, officer"
Deputy: "you ran a red light, so give me your license."
Motorist: "Sorry Officer, I never had a license." "Are you gonna give me a ticket?" "Are you gonna arrest me?"

Deputy: "Uh, I really have no citations, and I can't arrest you, so YOU
BETTER NOT DO IT AGAIN!"

what a pathetic attempt at police work. I would love to find out who is handing out these books to the deputies since they are not authorized to have them. I would personally embarrass that chief and his department.[/quoteIt is just a matter of time when the Sheriffs and the PDs merge like they have down south. You can thank these braniac administrators who want to save the town a few bucks and think they are using the Sheriff and his toys. Meanwhile, the Sheriff is getting free exposure and at the same time showcasing his arsenal. The Mayor or Selectman will figure it out and see a way to save money, while getting the resources necessary to handle anything without spending huge amounts of money. The LECS are only adding fuel to the fire. It will be nice when some fat cat who has been a car salesman and has been kicking in 5 bills becomes the "Deputy Superintendent of Patrol Operations." Meanwhile, here's Joe Friday who's been working the beat for 20+years and has to toe the line because Deputy Supt. sets forth an agenda.

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

So Deputies CANNOT arrest for unlicensed, unauthorized use, operating after suspension, leaving scene personal injury etc.

One would have to believe someone's peace would have been breached in this circumstance, don't ya think???

Posted by: pahapoika

well , buying your way in sounds like breaking the rules to me.

now if a part time cop and part time deputy go through the same "useless" academy , does that make them both useless ?

and how long do these "bought and paid for" deputies remain on the street ?

if they serve no useful purpose , it is just a way to get a badge and gun ?

sorry to play devil's advocate , but all this seems like a grey area and it would be better if the state cleared the whole thing up</IMG>

Posted by: Kb1100

just curious, what counties have citation books?

Posted by: 94c

[/quote It is just a matter of time when the Sheriffs and the PDs merge like they have down south.[/quote]

Luckily, we are big enough that we can handle our own. We still have an administration with a clear head that has seen first hand some of these guys attempts at police work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop

One would have to believe someone's peace would have been breached in this circumstance, don't ya think???

You could make that argument I guess. But they would have to know how to write reports first.

Posted by: ferus fidelitas

[quote=ferus fidelitas]is anyone else tired of people who purchased their jobs by holding campaign signs, making phone calls or a hefty donation and then being appointed to a position they would not otherwise been considered for ? Going to a very abbreviated "academy" and having ZERO 9-1-1 experience does not make you a police officer... Police are the Police - Deputies in this State bought their job and have tremondous delusions.... I respect the K9 and Transportation Deputies because they earned their deputy status by working inside the jail, rather than wannabes who simply made a donation to the sheriff...........huge difference. Making a campaign donation, sucking up or holding a sign and then going to a joke of a part time "academy' and then having zero 9-1-1 call experience does not make you a cop or give you the right to pull people over

[quote=ferus fidelitas]is anyone else tired of people who purchased their jobs by holding campaign signs, making phone calls or a hefty donation and then being appointed to a position they would not otherwise been considered for ? Going to a very abbreviated "academy" and having ZERO 9-1-1 experience does not make you a police officer... Police are the Police - Deputies in this State bought their job and have tremondous delusions.... I respect the K9 and Transportation Deputies because they earned their deputy status by working inside the jail, rather than wannabes who simply made a donation to the sheriff...........huge difference. Making a campaign donation, sucking up or holding a sign and then going to a joke of a part time "academy' and then having zero 9-1-1 call experience does not make you a cop or give you the right to pull people over -

Posted by: masscopguy

Dear Crazy Irish,

I hope you don't use your wild powers of assumption on the job.

1. I did not buy my badge since I have never made a donation to the Sheriff.
2. I had no connection to the then Sheriff when I applied for a position back in 1991.
3. I have never held a sign. I did support the current Sheriff''s opponent back in 1996 and despite that support the current Sheriff promoted me in 1998.

I guess the Sheriff's Department employees who get their jobs through connections or political support are different from the people I know who got on in their cities or towns because they knew the City Manager, Mayor or the Chairman of the Board of Selectman. Or they had a relative in a command position.

Crazy, if you have the attitude at work that you display on this board I am afraid you will be stuck in the position you have for many years to come regardless of who is the Essex County Sheriff.

A Dale Carnegie course may be worth looking into.

Posted by: uspresident1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ferus fidelitas

is anyone else tired of people who purchased their jobs by holding campaign signs, making phone calls or a hefty donation and then being appointed to a position they would not otherwise been considered for ? Going to a very abbreviated "academy" and having ZERO 9-1-1 experience does not make you a police officer... Police are the Police - Deputies in this State bought their job and have tremondous delusions.... I respect the K9 and Transportation Deputies because they earned their deputy status by working inside the jail, rather than wannabes who simply made a donation to the sheriff...........huge difference. Making a campaign donation, sucking up or holding a sign and then going to a joke of a part time "academy' and then having zero 9-1-1 call experience does not make you a cop or give you the right to pull people over - Scew Baez .... try pulling me over - i'll lock your misguided ass up

Where do you get off assuming every guy that serves papers is a donation hack and every transportation and K9 deputy "earned their status"??? I guarntee theres plenty of people who both bought they're way on to transportation and K9. But this is nothing new around here......TaDa!!!! Welcome to the great Commonwealth of Massachusetts the most corrupt state in the union! If you think that only "civil process deputies" are the only ones that buy jobs by donating money your gravely mistaken. Everyone here thinks that politics and bribes (thats what they are) only apply to: Andrea "handsome" Cabral, Frank Cousins, Jimmy DiPaolo, and the rest of the Sheriff mafia. You don't think poltics and kickbacks happen in the local PD's, the MSP, or anywhere else? Maybe not as much....but it does happen....Remember this is Massachusetts where the great Ted.K is still an US Senator.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop

One would have to believe someone's peace would have been breached in this circumstance, don't ya think???

A Breach of Peace is only arrestable if the offense occurred in the Officer's presence or was only interrupted by the Officer's arrival.

Or maybe Sheriff's Deputies can arrest for a "Past Breach of Peace"

Posted by: crazy irish

Quote:

Originally Posted by masscopguy

Dear Crazy Irish,

I hope you don't use your wild powers of assumption on the job.

1. I did not buy my badge since I have never made a donation to the Sheriff.
2. I had no connection to the then Sheriff when I applied for a position back in 1991.
3. I have never held a sign. I did support the current Sheriff''s opponent back in 1996 and despite that support the current Sheriff promoted me in 1998.

I guess the Sheriff's Department employees who get their jobs through connections or political support are different from the people I know who got on in their cities or towns because they knew the City Manager, Mayor or the Chairman of the Board of Selectman. Or they had a relative in a command position.

Crazy, if you have the attitude at work that you display on this board I am afraid you will be stuck in the position you have for many years to come regardless of who is the Essex County Sheriff.

A Dale Carnegie course may be worth looking into.

Those who got on city and towns the same way you hacks did makes you both wrong... Face it your a hack and you always will be. Because of this no one will ever respect you.
Your right. If I continue to have the attitude of believing it's wrong to strongarm donations from your employees, base promotions on campaign donations and handing out dicipline at a far greater level to non political supporters then yes I will be stuck at the level I'm at...You know what Hack? Thats fine with me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy irish

By the way since you mentioned it. Just who was the Sheriff's opponent back in 96? Because he ran for election against Phelan in 98. Hmmm looks like your caught in a lie hack. Then again thats what you hacks do best lie ,cheat and steal from the rest of us.

Posted by: masscopguy

By the way since you mentioned it. Just who was the Sheriff's opponent back in 96? Because he ran for election against Phelan in 98. Hmmm looks like your caught in a lie hack. Then again thats what you hacks do best lie ,cheat and steal from the rest of us.[/quote]

Once again a wild assumption from Crazy Irish.

I am not now nor have I ever had any connection whatsoever to the ECSD.

I supported former Sheriff Brad Bailey who was defeated by the current Middlesex County Sheriff James V. DiPaola on November 7, 1996. I remember the day well.

It would be nice if we lived in a utopia where everything was based on merit and qualifications. Unfortunately, I learned a long time ago that it simply doesn't work that way. You can get on board or you can bitch and moan and go home each night and the kick the dog. The decision is yours.

Posted by: crazy irish

We are not talking about the same Sheriff. I work for Essex. Cousins ran for Sheriff in 98. sorry for the mix up.........

YOU HACK!!!!!!

Posted by: Wolfman

I think we're done here.

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