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Main Page Jurisdiction in Massachusetts
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: ANother Blue Shirt

Has anyone seen the proposed bill for Barnstable county to extend all (full time) local police officers the jurisdiction for any arrestable offense that occurs within the county regardless of where the local officer is sworn? I see other states give their officers powers state-wide. I think Masscops & IBPO should petition to have that bill ammended to state-wide for all full time officers or perhaps lobby to have all local full time officers given jurisdiction throughout their respective counties. It would end the Comm v. Leblanc and other cases that force an officer to weed through case law prior to doing the job they do every day within their jurisdiction. Any thoughts?

Posted by: Wolfman

Posted by: mpd61

Stand by to repell boarders!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Sniper

I was thinking more like NATIONAL jurisdiction........ Then I can vacation in Florida and stuff when I arrest people on warrants. I can extradite them back to Florida and cool places like that. MASSCOPS vacation. Actually who am I kidding. I might be serving time after getting sued by the CMPSA !!!!! LMAO

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANother Blue Shirt

It would end the Comm v. Leblanc and other cases that force an officer to weed through case law prior to doing the job they do every day within their jurisdiction. Any thoughts?

Ya, if your talking about "within your jurisdiction" then why are you commenting outside of your "jurisdiction."

A local cop already has plenty of authority outside of his jurisdiction. Stick to crime fighting where you work. And if it's serious enough, then you already have jurisdiction state wide.

Posted by: youareadolt

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

God forbid a cop want to do his job...."within your jurisdiction" is only a problem for crusty cynical guys who want to collect a check, get a good detail and sleep the rest of there career away. who cares if a guy want makes a pinch in another town, christ i'd do the booking for him, shake his hand and let him buy me a coffee. cops, man are we a unique group.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by youareadolt

Please forgive me. Some of us can find enough to do in our own jurisdiction.
If you're bored then move to a bigger department. Or are you one of those guys that want the larger jurisdiction so you can go around bragging about it.

As a local I can arrest for a felony anywhere in the state. Apply for a search warrant anywhere in the state. Can enjoy mutual aid, fresh and continued pursuit, transferred authority, and being sworn in as a special on top of that!

Don't need any more authority to fill MY EGO.

Oh, God...I just realized I can't issue a citation wherever I want...DAMN!!!

Posted by: JoninNH

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

...Arrest on a warrant anywhere in the state....

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoninNH

...Arrest on a warrant anywhere in the state....

I knew I forgot something.
I just realized this was posted on a sheriff's forum.

That, my friend, explains everything.

Posted by: youareadolt

i read some of your past posts and you're right it's probably good that you can't write cites in other jurisdiction, you're not even sure what you can write in your own.. just another carp...dolt

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by youareadolt

You're not a cop anyway, so why do you care?

Posted by: USMCTrooper

Try this instead............it might be easier and faster than that whole legislative process.

Posted by: bbelichick

Dolt is just a whacker posing as a cop. Pay him no mind.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by youareadolt

i read some of your past posts and you're right it's probably good that you can't write cites in other jurisdiction, you're not even sure what you can write in your own.. just another carp...dolt

care to back that up with some facts?

Don't tell me. Let me guess...

You came up with the idea of a screen name while checking yourself out in the mirror.

Posted by: nirtallica

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANother Blue Shirt

Has anyone seen the proposed bill for Barnstable county to extend all (full time) local police officers the jurisdiction for any arrestable offense that occurs within the county regardless of where the local officer is sworn? I see other states give their officers powers state-wide. I think Masscops & IBPO should petition to have that bill ammended to state-wide for all full time officers or perhaps lobby to have all local full time officers given jurisdiction throughout their respective counties. It would end the Comm v. Leblanc and other cases that force an officer to weed through case law prior to doing the job they do every day within their jurisdiction. Any thoughts?

I have a better idea- LET'S DO AWAY WITH THE FEDS AND GIVE ALL STATE POLICE throughout the country FEDERAL JURISDICTION!

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica

I have a better idea- LET'S DO AWAY WITH THE FEDS AND GIVE ALL STATE POLICE throughout the country FEDERAL JURISDICTION!

And what happens when one of your guys flips his noodle and ends up in Nebraska?

Posted by: Foxy85

If i recall my Reserve Academy class with Lt. Bozicas from Fitchburg, a police officer can make a "citizens arrest" for misdemeanor (spelling?) offenses outside of his jurisdiction....Non-police officer (a citizen) can only make felony...and he/she has to be convicted of the crime...

Please correct me if i'm wrong...

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxy85

If i recall my Reserve Academy class with Lt. Bozicas from Fitchburg, a police officer can make a "citizens arrest" for misdemeanor (spelling?) offenses outside of his jurisdiction....Non-police officer (a citizen) can only make felony...and he/she has to be convicted of the crime...

Please correct me if i'm wrong...

A police officer can only make a citizen's arrest for a felony outside his jurisdiction.

By a regular citizen he has to prove "in fact committed"
By a Police officer he only needs "Probable Cause"

That is the only distinction between cops and civilians.

Posted by: nirtallica

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

Why is it some of you on this board who are local police cannot be happy with your current job and perform the work you were hired for-to police a citry or town? If you want to be state police, take the test and go through the rigors of the hiring process and SPA. Otherwise, be thankful that you even got hired in a state that is one of the hardest in the country to be employed as a PO in and stop believing your delusions!

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica

Go back to post #7.

If you don't understand my stance then.....

I for one am not delusional. The only thing you can do that I can't is write a Chapter 90 citation and arrest for misdemeanors. woooop-deeeee-doooooo.

Posted by: texdep

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica

Texas is one of the States that have a statue given all po's statewide authority.(except motor vehicle offenses) In the ten years I was there I believe I only saw one guy hot dogging it and he was rather quickly put in his place by the "group".
What the statue did help is mutual aid,(no special agreements needed) and task force groups ( no special arrangements needed.).

Posted by: nirtallica

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

You are a deputy which means squat. The letter of the law may say you have arrest powers, but we all know you and the Sheriffs are full of shit. You can't and won't make arrests because they will never hold up in court. Your supervisors will never let it happen. You are delusional. If you could make arrests, you would be out there doing them instead of taking about it on this board. The title of Deputy in this state is the equivalent to the powers of an ordinary citizen and that is the way it will stay.

Posted by: j809

Oh hold on a minute, one of the hacks will respond to this thread with the BAEZ case again and again.

Posted by: ferus fidelitas

I have zip interest in having "power" beyond my jurisdiction. I'll do my job here and don't need some whacker from a small town coming in here looking for more fertile fishing grounds.Simply stay within the sphere of your authority and do nothing but be a good witness if you come across anything less than serious. Hunt where you are employed... whackers are not welcome in my municipality

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica

Your mother's a Deputy.

And you must be one dumbass trooper if you can't comprehend what you read.

G-O B-A-C-K T-O P-O-S-T #7 WAS THAT SLOW ENOUGH FOR YOU?

And without hurting yourself go to post #9.

What part of any of that don't you understand?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica

Two years of highway traffic under your belt and you call yourself a cop.
HA!

Posted by: nirtallica

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94c

OK then why would you state in a previous post that the only things I can do that you can't is issue v's and arrest for misdemeanors? Most cops I know have Chap 90. So are you a cop or a Correctional professional?

Posted by: j809

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica

What 94C said is that the only thing he cannot do outside his jurisdiction as a municipal police officer is write Chapter 90 or arrest for misdemeanors. 94C is a cop.

Posted by: j809

Let's all love each other.

Posted by: NEPS

If for the past twenty-five years the law in this Massachusetts was the same as that in Vermont, where all police officers and deputy sheriffs have all of their police authority throughout the state, then this discussion would not be happening. Most of us would not know any different way for things to be. We would have come on the job knowing, "I can make an arrest anywhere in the state." We would have learned of the good and bad points of making an arrest outside of the town or county we worked for and the risks inherent in doing anything off-duty. It would be no big deal.

Over those twenty-five years, what would be different? For one thing hundreds, perhaps thousands, of defendants in criminal cases where arrests actually were made would not have had their cases dismissed on the jurisdictional defense of, "Did the officer have at least reasonable suspicion within his jurisdiction that an arrestable criminal offense had been committed in his presence before stopping or arresting the defendant whose car had crossed the jurisdictional boundary?" I know I lost an OUI on this very question. And you can say I should have called the neighboring town and gotten assistance, but the reality of things is that (1) events move faster than that, (2) following a car further and further into a neighboring town down streets one is less and less familiar with is not the best way to handle things, and (3) why should I, an experienced and trained full-time police officer, need to trouble the police officers of the neighboring town at 2 AM in order to make a routine drunk driving arrest?

Another thing that would have happened is that many criminal cases would have come out of the simple ability to cross a town line to stop a car for a civil infraction that has occurred within one's own jurisdiction. Many times I've not been able to catch the vehicle before it makes a sudden turn into the neighboring town, so I wave bye-bye like a good municipal police officer, letting the traffic violator go. Who knows what all of these foregone stops would have turned up. At the very least, a few thousand more citations.

Who cares, cynical police officers ask, if cases get dismissed or citations don't get issued? What I want to know is why following some rule about the authority of sheriffs and constables that dates back to the middle ages more important than winning the cases or issuing the citations? It doesn't make me a super cop to think that if it is worth doing my job than it is worth doing it right.

Why don't I join the state police, some might ask. Why is that relevant, is my reply. There is nothing inherently special about the state police (and nothing less special) that gives them the ability to act throughout the commonwealth other than a few lines in the Mass. General Laws that could easily be written differently.

I drive into the neighboring city each day to go to the district court. What differences are there between me and an off duty trooper from the other end of the state if a man punched a woman in the eye in front of us? I would know the area and the street and would have instant radio communication with the city police, but would not be able to hold or chase the attacker without risking the suppression of any evidence he might have on his person and civil liability for false arrest, assault and battery, etc. The trooper would not know the area, would not have radio communications with the city police, but somehow would have the authority to make the arrest. It doesn't make me a super cop to think that if a trained full-time police officer while on duty witnesses a woman getting poked in the eye, he should be able to chase and arrest the suspect without concern about violating civil rights and losing evidence.

Officers only think the current way is the right way because that is the way things have always been. Different equals bad.

Years ago my partner and I, on a last half, got called to an apartment because the no good son had thrown his seventy year old mother to the floor than ran out of the apartment. As we are speaking with her the son calls the house -- and this was back before everyone had cell phones. I walk down the street to where I know there is a payphone, and there he is, on it.

Probable cause to believe crime has been committed? Yes! Past misdemeanor right of arrest for offense? Yes! Scumbag arrested? No! The payphone he is using is in a parking lot ten feet into the neighboring town.

Good little municipal police officer that I am, I duck back out of sight a little bit to radio for assistance from the neighboring town. If I approach the guy I know he will only run further into the safety of the other town where I am forbidden to pursue him. When I take another peek, he's gone.

Now, fortunately for me, this did not end up with him coming back later that day and killing his mother. Unfortunately for me, he came back ten minutes later and I heard him running up the back stairs to his mother's second floor apartment. I ran up after him and, instead of fighting to subdue him in a parking lot, I'm now wrestling with him on a narrow landing of an outside stairway fifteen feet above the ground before we finally smash through the screen door onto the back porch. (For humor's sake I'll add that my partner was inside the kitchen five feet away going crazy while the mother searched for the key to the double-keyed lock on the back door.)

Though I scrupulously observe the law that limits my powers, and insist those I supervise do the same, I have only contempt for the restriction of a municipal police officer's authority to his town. Further, it saddens me that, in a time when police officers are under attack from so many interest groups and political factions, we continue to be our own worst enemies. How ready we are to assume that an expansion of our authority will lead to misconduct by our fellow officers. How anxious we are to believe that we can't be trusted. How quickly we conclude that nothing can work if it relies upon the integrity and good judgment of other police officers.

Does anyone realize that there is a bill that has some chance of passing, as it has in other states, that would grant federal agents the authority to make arrests under state criminal law? I don't disagree with such a law, but I do wonder what kind of state we work in where feds might well get police powers in the city next to mine before I do.

Training, good policies, supervision, discipline, and reliance on good judgment are what we need in all aspects of police work, not jealous, inflexible guardianship of our little pieces of turf.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirtallica

Because my friend, you jumped into the conversation mid-stream and immediately went on the offensive. Take a minute to read the first 7 posts and it should be quite clear to you. If it is not, then I don't know what to tell you. I am a firm believer that everyone has a job to do and if they stick to it then we will all get along.

I also think it's important enough to know the law in case you somehow end up in the next town over by unforeseen circumstances. Granted, this does not happen all that often during routine patrol, but it can become an issue during investigations.

I have more respect for a young security guard who is waiting his chance to break into law enforcement, than I do for these hack deputies who are trying to buy their way in. They can't get on the job so they are trying to circumvent the system.

Stay safe and as Rodney King once said, "Can't we all get along?"

Granted, it was probably his concussion talking, but the thought was there.

Yes, I am a cop.

Posted by: Mr.90/24

It has been proposed and it has been denied everytime. Their is no reason for a local cop to arrest someone in another jurisdiction! We have the State Police! The next thing to go is the lec's...I heard Patrick is trying to get ride of the regional teams!! The Sheriffs are going back to the jails, maybe merging with the DOC!!

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.90/24

Their is no reason for a local cop to arrest someone in another jurisdiction! We have the State Police!

I can think of alot of reasons in chapters 94C and 265.

Posted by: j809

Officers in LECs are already sworn in by the other municipalities so they have full police powers. I seriously doubt Deval is going after the LECs, he can't even take the heat for using the chopper and buying a Cadillac.

Posted by: 10H

I believe that the New York State penal law allows for police officers to arrest for misdemeanors and felonies statewide, but prohibits the statewide enforcement of "violations"/petty offenses (read traffic laws).

So, an off-duty Buffalo policeman who goes to the mall in Syracuse could arrest a shoplifter.

Posted by: Blueknight

Deval is no friend of LEO,

Let's not fight amongst ourselves, there are enough idots out there to go after, not matter what your badge or jurisdictional authority is.

Posted by: JoninNH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueknight

Deval is no friend of LEO,

Let's not fight amongst ourselves, there are enough idots out there to go after, not matter what your badge or jurisdictional authority is.

Deval can kiss my ass.

Posted by: Blueknight

Deval has to come down a level to do that. With his new blue lights and siren Cadilac and his SP helicopter rides. You know he got no worries about boys in the da hood or white crackers either for that matter.

Posted by: k9sheriff

Mr. 90, the Sheriff's will not be merging with the DOC. You need better info.If they did though, it would be a nice raise for me, and create one hell of a powerful union.

Posted by: Blueknight

I think numerous people should learn from where they get their powers. Check to find out where locals get their powers and where the sheriff's get their power. Something about MGL's and The Constitution. Could be interesting reading, but all the ones who hate SD's wont bother., because thet just want to stir up problems, instead of getting along and just doing what they have to do, to do their own jobs. Hey, let's point fingers and noone will be satisfied. Get over it.

Posted by: JoninNH

::yawn::

Posted by: Blueknight

I agree completely, just had to throw it out there. Who gives a ----. Just wish we could all get along.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueknight

I agree completely, just had to throw it out there. Who gives a ----. Just wish we could all get along.

We will. Just stay in the Jail.

Posted by: Vader

Why is everyone so concerned about doing someone elses job? Has your own "backyard" been cleaned up yet??? Probably not. Take care of that before you go looking for something else to do.

Posted by: NEPS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vader

Why is everyone so concerned about doing someone elses job? Has your own "backyard" been cleaned up yet???

Happening to be in the right place at the right time to make a difference is not looking to do "someone else's job" if the "someone else" doesn't happen to be there at the time. And if my backyard needs to be cleaned up, turning down a neighbor who comes along with an offer to help is not going to get the backyard cleaned up any faster.

And this is a municipal police officer speaking, who has been the commanding officer of shifts and has found frustration trying to grant (and get) mutual aid authority at a speed fast enough to catch up with how quickly the events unfold.

Why should any evidence be put at risk when a drugged up nut runs out of his home and attacks a police officer from the neighboring city who happens to be driving by in my town on a street near the line just because the officer does what he is trained to and essentially arrests the suspect for a misdemeanor assault upon himself?

Or why should there be any problem with an off duty officer from the neighboring detaining a man he saw spit on and strike a woman on the street?

As written now, the law has a problem with these scenarios that occurred in my town, though I certainly don't.

Posted by: nirtallica

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEPS

Well if jurisdiction is a problem, just call your local SP Barracks and we will be glad to handle anything you cannot since jurisdiction is not a problem for us. There is so much talk on this board about everyone working together, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k9sheriff

Mr. 90, the Sheriff's will not be merging with the DOC. You need better info.If they did though, it would be a nice raise for me, and create one hell of a powerful union.

Yeah and once and for all, there will be no disputes about your job description and duties!

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