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Main Page Detail Critics are at it again
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: pucknut

Here we go again folks, its time for the annual detail abolishment article.

They never say how many good things have come from having so many cops on the streets doing details. F- ing Globe!
Pay exceeds $140,000 for hundreds of troopers

Critic blasts detail work

By Suzanne Smalley, Globe Staff | February 7, 2007
Nearly one in 10 Massachusetts State Police officers made more than the governor last year, with 225 officers topping the $140,535 annual salary of the state's chief executive.

Four of the 2,338 state troopers were paid more than $200,000, and 123 others were paid more than $150,000, the salary of the governor's Cabinet secretaries, according to payroll information obtained by the Globe under the state public records law.
The salaries include regular pay, overtime, and State Police detail pay at roadwork sites. Last year, 60 State Police officers earned more than $40,000 working details. Massachusetts is the only state to automatically assign state and local police officers to nearly all road and utility work sites, instead of less expensive civilian flag persons.
The pay totals do not include money earned by officers working construction details paid for by the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority and the Massachusetts Port Authority. Since those are substantial additional sources of income for many State Police troopers, it is likely that many more officers' pay topped $150,000 last year.
During fiscal 2006, State Police officers earned $6.1 million on turnpike details for the Big Dig alone. During calendar 2006, they made $7.2 million on Massport details, the agencies said yesterday.

Michael Widmer, president of the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation, a nonpartisan state budget watchdog group, said yesterday that the salaries are "vastly excessive and extreme" and blamed the cost of the details for inflating officers' pay.
"This confirms that police details are a costly and unnecessary burden on the state's taxpayers," Widmer said. "No other state comes close to Massachusetts in the use of details."
Widmer said the details have become ingrained as a political sacred cow. Officers are paid $40 an hour for the detail work, a rate set in the police union contract that is at least twice what a civilian would earn, according to Widmer.
A spokeswoman for Governor Deval Patrick declined to comment on the issue yesterday, though Patrick has said he might review detail pay. Most police unions supported Patrick in his landslide victory last year.
John Coflesky, president of the State Police Association of Massachusetts, defended the detail pay, saying that having officers at construction sites instead of civilians enhances public safety.
"With us, you get a cruiser, someone with the ability to stop and issue citations, someone with a radio," he said yesterday. ". . . A cruiser -- that deters people from going past a flag man at high rates of speed. The purpose behind this is to protect the people working at construction details. . . . A flag person -- they just don't have the same clout."
A 2004 study by Suffolk University's Beacon Hill Institute, examined data from details at construction sites in 103 cities and towns and found that the state has the worst accident rate in the country measured by property damage and the second worst measured by bodily injury.
But, the study excluded State Police details, because the agency said it could not produce necessary records for less than $5,800.
The study also estimated the costs of local police details in 2003 at $93.3 million, as much as $66.5 million more than civilians would have cost. Details also drive many Boston police officers' pay higher.
In 2005, nine Boston officers made more than $200,000, and more than 1,000 made more than $100,000.
Coflesky said State Police began working under a new contract last July 1 that runs until Dec. 31, 2008. State troopers' base pay increased by 3.75 percent this year and now ranges from $49,376 to $68,236 a year, depending on years of service.
Officers at higher ranks and detectives earn thousands more.
Detective Lieutenant William Powers, a spokesman for the State Police, said he believes that the compensation is fair.
"We're a full-time operation," he said. "There are a lot of demands placed on our personnel . . . that aren't on people in other jobs, and that's recognized when they bargain for a contract."
Powers pointed out that State Police officers made slightly more last year because the new contract was retroactive and included some money for work performed in prior years.
The payroll information also does not cover about 150 officers who are permanently assigned to the two authorities, Powers said.
He said those expenditures are not available because they are not part of the State Police budget.
Coflesky said private contractors and other state agencies reimburse the State Police for their officers' work on details.
But Widmer said that ultimately the consumer pays.
"It's of no import whose budget it comes out of; it comes out of the taxpayer's pocket," he said. "At this point, there seems to be no political will to change it."
© Copyright 2007 Globe Newspaper Company.

Posted by: Gil

140+ that will be me next year

Posted by: Nachtwächter

I wonder if they just change the dates on these reports, then cut and paste. Seems to be a few every year.

Posted by: Pacman

OMG! Police Officers making as much as some in the private sector that make thier 140K in 40 hours! What will we ever do? Hey it's about god damn time we got paid. UP YOURS!!! We miss our kids and families, risk divorce and our health so that we can earn a decent living, PAY US MORE then we won't HAVE to work them! Idiots!!!

Posted by: Chree

I am sure that this author, Susan Smalley, would complain if she got a ticket for speeding, stating that the cops are focusing their attention on law abiding citizens, yet she was speeding. This article appears every year, written by people who have a nice safe DESK job. I don't see the Gov't Cabinet Secretaries breaking up fights or doing CPR on a baby that stopped breathing, or going into a building to look for the latest drug addict who broke in to find money for his next fix. It must be nice to be safe in your job every day. Like the old saying goes, never judge a man until you have walked a mile in their shoes.

Posted by: Duff112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nachtwächter

I wonder if they just change the dates on these reports, then cut and paste. Seems to be a few every year.

Yes, this comes up every single year. The Globe reporters must have it marked on their calenders to know when the Mass. Budget Office has their
figures ready from the previous fiscal year...

I personally use this as a wake up call...

I tell myself "No looking down the manhole, face the traffic"

"Don't look up at the bucket truck, move your arm"

"Someone could be filming you right now"

Works every time.

Posted by: JoninNH

Quote:

A spokeswoman for Governor Deval Patrick declined to comment on the issue yesterday, though Patrick has said he might review detail pay. Most police unions supported Patrick in his landslide victory last year.

When the f*ck are the unions going to start supporting pro-cop politicians?

Posted by: alphadog1

Talk radio on WRKO joined the detail bashing during the morning drive. The host once again got his facts wrong by stating the 49 states do not have police details for the highways...that flagmen would do a better job at a cheaper rate. I remember being in Maui and seeing the PD working a road job repaving the road. I guess I was imagining this and that it only happens in Mass.

Posted by: Bravo2-7

I love these articles..."Oh my god police officers are making more than I do writing BS articles!!! We can't have that!!!!" Like Duff said already, I use these articles to remember to actually look like I am doing something when working a road job, i.e not looking down in the hole. Heck people drive bad enough even when you are actually telling them what to do (I still remember my first detail!) We can all b&*%! and complain about the Globe and their anti-cop stance (and god-damn they do have one) but we all know that we can be our own worst enemy sometimes.

And just to separate the State Police here as the article did. How can any one think that it is not a good idea to have a police cruiser with blue lights going when they shut down a lane on the highway? People crash through work areas too much as it is with the troopers there.

Posted by: rlay84

Why do these bashing articles not include that many of the officers that are at the high end of the pay scale are those who have given their time serving the county, have been the fortunate one's to successfully work their way up in the cj field, have invested time and money to get a higher education which I highly doubt many flag swingers have, and work endless hours in all weather, holidays, and events that most others know nothing about.

Posted by: futureMSP

I did a little bit of math to find out how much these top earners may actually work. This is a quick, crude estimate that doesn't take much into account other than the trooper's base salary is 69,000 and he/she cleared 140,000 for the year. That leaves 71,000, if that is all details @ $40/hr the Trooper worked 1,775 hours to make that much. Then a typical 40 hour work week, 2,080 hours plus the 1,775 hours equals 3,855 hours for the year.

That is just over 74 hours per week of work. So, these Troopers are basically working two full time jobs. Does the globe realize that the Troopers are actually working, on the street. It's not like a conspiracy where all MSP personnel just get a bonus called detail pay for sitting at home.

This type of foolish journalism is an embarassment. Who knows how many of the high earners are LT and above, who knows how many hours these folks put in, who knows what kind of strains happen at home because of it.

If a newspaper wants to breakdown financial figures, well, then its time to really examine ranks in relation to pay, actual hours worked in relation to pay, etc. The Globe writes articles like a sixth grader trying to write a college level paper. It's pathetic.

Posted by: chief801

Not saying that FutureMSP's example couldn't happen, but this is more likely:

69,000 Base + 25% Quinn Bill = 86,250

140,000 - 86,250 = 53,750

53,750/ 40.00 = 1344 hrs.
1344 hrs./52.2 wks = 25.75 hrs. per week (Details & Overtime)

To make $140,000 a top step trooper w/Masters has to work approximately 3 overtime or detail shifts per week. Right around 60 hrs. per week if you account for the 4/2 schedule 32 hr. weeks.

Posted by: PoePoe27

I Challenge this Michael Widmer to go on a ride along for a while with any officer of any department in this state and watch him respond to the "stinking dead body calls" and the "baby not breathing" calls and the fight calls in which you know the punches are coming.

The next time you see a prick like this and he wants a moment of your time, tell him you would give him one if you had the time, but your too busy working 80 hours a week for blood money in sub zero temperatures. This guy wouldn't know the real world if it jumped up and bit him in the ass. I bet he has one of those old school calculator watches too!

Posted by: MPD119

someone needs to step up and report our working conditions to fox25 under cover. Things like detail officers making arrest while working a paid detail. How many hours of work to make those money. How troopers in a mark car with flashing blue lights get rear ended on the high way(imagine an old man waving red flag). Money detail officers mean more cops on the street. Will drivers stop for a flag man during rush hours? Would people like to see a police officer tied up with a stupid shoplifter at the super market and unable to respond to a medical(Child with no Breathing?) A flag man is working for the private sector and they don't care about public safety. A detail officer can listen to their radio, if they know EMT/FIRE/POLICE are responding to calls, they can release traffic so they won't stuck in the traffic? Will a $12.99/hr flag man contact the police/fire/emt that he will block off the streets for constructions. I truely believe that a flag man will only do what his/her supervior tell them to do. The flag man will stand in the middle of the road/ or use a big truck/cones to block the traffic, so the company can move their heavy equipments around(Disregard the traffic condition). Would parents feel more comfortable to see a detail officer at their sons' football/basketball games? Would people behave the same way at the bar/club without a detail officer present? I cann't stress enough how important a detail officer is. Most of the time they just stand there and do nothing(in the eyes of the general public). But when serious things happened, detail officers can be activate to respond to crimes/incidents. Would a typical John and Mary rush themselves to a gun battle for only $28 or less dollar per hour? Would a typical John and Mary break up a fight between to HIV+?(Not to mention that they have weapons and bleeding). With only 5 minutes of my time, I can come up with all these examples. If everyone of us can pitch in some good/real incidents and forword them to the boston globe. Let see how people react. A good/real incident must be documented or facts. I hope someone out there would take some action. Let the public knows that we missed our son/wife/daughter birthdays to make those money so they can have a decent place to live.

By the way, detail officers cost the state/private sectors/tax payer money. Anyone here don't pay tax? The more money you make the more tax you pay. Are we considered part of the tax payer? My tax goes to your son little Johnny free school lunch meal and yes, I locked them up for 94c last week =) What a good way to waste my tax money on your son.

Sorry guys I just cann't help after reading the article...lol

Posted by: justanotherparatrooper

Mpd...you miss the point, They dont CARE what you do. Your a cop,that makes you wrong.Once in a great while the media (Boston and Ny in particular) will show a story of a hero cop otherwise its all negative shit.Look how fast they turned on Bpd for the fake bombs last week. The asses that placed the " billboards" are getting sympathy and the cops are the bad guys for overreacting. JUst fkn sad times were living in.

Posted by: NBC515

I would love for the globe reporter to spend a week or two shadowing the typical cop who is working details in order to survive.... I doubt the story would change but it may open their eyes just a bit.

Posted by: autox5191

Not to mention most towns charge as much as 10% administration fee per hour. last time I checked this goes into the towns general fund.
So if I alone work 3 details a week, the town can make close to 5k a year. So another way of looking at it if 1/2 the guys work this (which they do) the town can put an additional 75k in its coffers which very well could be a teachers salary

Posted by: Mitpo62

As long as the cities/towns get their cut, no wise politician is going to raise a finger about details. And these liberal "watchdogs" act like the money gets thrown at our feet. Lets see some of them stand out in the pouring rain, freezing cold and wind or steam baths of summer. Yeah, ok........

Posted by: michaelbos

And a guy gets millions for hitting a little ball out of a park, and he don't hit all of them

Posted by: MM1799

Ah, the Globe. That's really all I need to say..

A couple of summers ago I was speaking to a New Bedford Police Union Rep and they told me that flagmen would be somwhere in the ballpark of $20/hr (after ss insurance payments and workers comp). Now that may be overall less than an officer would make.. would you pay someone $20/hr to wave a flag and call '911' if something happens? I'll let you decide...

Just for my own information, I'd love to know what the president of some watchdog budget group makes yearly.. I'd love to do the comparison some day...

This comes out every year and people get in an uproar and what not. A couple months later the Globe finds out that the Post Office has lost letters and the inquisition begins! I'm over it.

Posted by: 94c

Quote:

Originally Posted by MM1799

Ah, the Globe. That's really all I need to say..

You say only $20/hr.? Here's the $64,000 question I can't get answered.

Will the flagmen be included in the prevailing wage law?
(You better believe they'd jump on it)

Which means they will be at least in the mid to high twenties. Factor in insurance and other costs and the rate will be equivalent to a lot of local departments.

Posted by: MM1799

I was just remembering what I was told a few years ago.. I dont doubt what you are saying.
I dont pay attention and I dont really care what a bunch of flag waivers make. Everyone here knows that this whole article is capitalizing on the anti-police feelings many citizens have. If firefighters were sitting on the highway guarding construction zones, they'd be heroes.

Posted by: Portable81

State and Local Police Make Thousands from Road Work Detail
CHICOPEE, MASSACHUSETTS (WWLP) Massachusetts is the only state to automatically assign state and local officers to nearly all road and utility worksites. And it comes at a price of $40 or more an hour, often with additional overtime pay. Having state troopers or police officers do this job costs taxpayers millions of dollars a year.

Holyoke school bus driver Deborah Mcrae sees the worksites all the time while driving her route. “I really think it is excessive to find out how much they're getting paid an hour. I’d do it!”
But some see value in the practice, namely the people who work these highway construction sites. Gary Lovett of Greenfield said, “Absolutely, with the blue lights and the cruiser the traffic slows down and pays attention."
The state trooper on this job didn't want to talk on camera, but said drivers respond to his call to slow down in way they wouldn't if a paid flagman was out here. He thinks the presence of police goes a long way towards making these sites safer.

Written by 22News Reporter
Dan Elias

2/7/07 - Do you think the state should continue to require the presence of uniformed police officers at road construction sites?

yes 49% 428 Votes no 50% 445 Votes Total Votes: 873

This is the current "web poll" on the 22 News website www.wwlp.com

Posted by: 209

State troopers' pay blasted as excessive
The Associated Press

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BOSTON (AP) — More than 200 state police troopers who boosted their base salary by working overtime and road details were paid more than the governor last year, according to a published report.
Nearly one in 10 — or 225 troopers — surpassed the governor's $140,535 annual salary.
Four of 2,338 state troopers made more than $200,000 last year and 123 others made more than $150,000, according to payroll information obtained by The Boston Globe under state public records law.
The state police salaries are "vastly excessive and extreme," said Michael Widmer, president of the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation, a nonpartisan state budget watchdog group.
He blamed the cost of details for inflating trooper pay. Officers are paid $40 an hour for detail work, at least twice what a civilian flag person would earn, Widmer said.
"This confirms that police details are a costly and unnecessary burden on the state's taxpayers," Widmer said.
Massachusetts is the only state where police are automatically assigned to direct traffic at all road and utility work sites. The state police pay totals reported by the Globe do not include money
Advertisement

GetAd('tile','box','/headlines_article','','www.berkshireeagle.com','', 'null','null');

earned working details paid for by the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority or the Massachusetts Port Authority, meaning many more officers likely made more than $150,000 last year.
State Police officers earned $6.1 million on turnpike details for the Big Dig alone during the 2006 fiscal year, and they made $7.2 million on Massport details during the 2006 calendar year, according to the agencies. John Coflesky, president of the State Police Association of Massachusetts, said having officers at construction sites instead of civilians enhances public safety. "With us, you get a cruiser, someone with the ability to stop and issue citations, someone with a radio," he said..

Posted by: SOT

They do more work than the gov...so what's the point.

Here's the thing....they say a trooper gets paid twice what a civilian flag person would get...yet are not shocked that any flucking mope can make $20 standing there with a flag.
That being said I think flagpeople should get $10 an hour, and police should get $50...they are certainly worth it.

Posted by: TheFuzz357

Anyone who thinks a flagman at a setup is more beneficial than a cruiser with lights, a trained first responder, the ability to stop and write citations, and immediate access to dispatch EMS should watch this video.
http://www.break.com/index/badaccident7.html

Posted by: alphadog1

Massachusetts is prevailing wage state...so where would the savings be with a flagman who has no powers of arrest, no radio, first responder/CPR, firearm, etc...

Posted by: dcs2244

The Globe conveniently left out the cost of the flagman's benefits package, which would bring the cost of a flagman up in the neighborhood of the evil trooper: $40.00 an hour, with no radio, cruiser or police powers. They further failed to note that there is no benefit-package cost for a cop at a detail.

But hey, we go through this every year.

It's too bad the press can't confine their biased and untruthful reporting to the Iraq war and the Bush administration.
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Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:

Holyoke school bus driver Deborah Mcrae sees the worksites all the time while driving her route. “I really think it is excessive to find out how much they're getting paid an hour. I’d do it!”

Yeah, if some goon driving a bus for a living could cut it as a police officer, then be my guest and do the road jobs....otherwise shut your suck! Like many others have said its not like police are sitting in their solariums at home, sipping champagne during their details; its essentially working a second job. A second job that involves risking your life around idiot drivers who are more concerned about text-messaging their buddy than paying attention to the road. Not to mention handling accidents, medical emergencies and crime in general. The media fails to mention that in every state that flagmen have replaced police WORK ZONE ACCIDENTS HAVE SKYROCKETED! Who pays for the increased insurance, injury claims not to mention benefits for the dead workers? Do us a favor, Globe, Herald, Fox 25, whatever...do more research on your "facts" than having your 22 year old intern go to wikipedia before you publish/broadcast this nonsense

Posted by: 209

Just realized this story was already posted yesterday. Sry.

Detail Critics are at it again (

1 2 3)
pucknut

Posted by: Sniper

I think we should all call that bitch..............hahahahaaa

Posted by: dcs2244

Guess what, citizen bus drivers'? Impeding the orderly flow of traffic? Endangering the lives of the children?

You have now attracted my scrutiny...I have no problem taking bread from your table, as you have no problem doing the same to cops. Stand by, and have your (soon to be revoked) license handy.

Seriously, I was in the check-out at the local grocery this morning when the check-out lady (65-70 YOA) says "you guys are making too much money". Now, she was smiling and just "bustin'". I replied that I don't work details, but that all those people that do are putting in the extra hours, time away from there families, et cetera. She stated that she knew that and that she'd rather have police at the construction sites, further stating that we are not paid ENOUGH, and then thanked me for being there. People know what the deal is and support the cops.

Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required. http://www.nicedoggie.net
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Posted by: mpdcam

Talk radio is having it's yearly field day about details again. Turns my stomach every time.

Ever notice how they never figure out how many hours the trooper/officer worked to make that money?

The Boston Piece of S#*t Globe can kiss my ass!!!!

Posted by: Bravo2-7

I know I have already chimed in on this but I had to make another point after reading the article and seeing the nice little graphic they included. I figured out their thought process. Basically its "Cops making more than the governor?!!!!! That can't be allowed!!!!!"

Posted by: MARINECOP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

OMG! Police Officers making as much as some in the private sector that make thier 140K in 40 hours! What will we ever do? Hey it's about god damn time we got paid. UP YOURS!!! We miss our kids and families, risk divorce and our health so that we can earn a decent living, PAY US MORE then we won't HAVE to work them! Idiots!!!

Great post.

Posted by: SOT

Next will be the get paid for 4 if you only show up...

What these asshats don't get is the god damn GeekSquad get $85 an hour for a house can...plus travel time....

The only reason I make this comparison is that the geeksquad has marked cars, has little badges, are called agents....so these liberl assholes think it's prolly the same thing...

Posted by: Dr.Magoo

Just a few points I'd like to point out (I know this is the choir).

#1 Your utility rates (Verizon, Cable, Electric etc.) will not go down if you go to flagman.
#2 Who is going to work at McDonald's/Landscaper etc. if we switch to flagmen?
#3 How will the flagmen legally drive to their assignment. (Never mind, Deval will solve that).
#4 Besides wave a flag, what will a flagman bring to the job (CPR, LE Experience, ability to render aid???? Just keep waving)
#5 Cities and Towns will lose their 10% administration fee. I'm sure there won't be more local aid to offset the difference.

You want to cut details, then pay every officer $140,000 a year....then you can bring flagmen into the picture....plus lose all the benefits you get from having a trained police officer at a detail site.

Posted by: 94c

Like it's been said above. Those of us who have been around awhile see this every year. Then it blows away like the Globe on trash day.

Posted by: DPD77

Let's not forget about all those idiots that get lost with help of Mapquest and have to stop right in the middle of traffic to get directions to where they're going. Being a Police Officer familiar with the local area you are able to tell them where to go. The flagman will probably be from New Hampshire and get lost himself getting to the jobsite.

Posted by: 4ransom

I stopped wasting my energy and breath on this subject a long time ago. Since I was in diapers these articles have been written and the debate has been ongoing. We still have them, don't we? They aren't going anywhere. If they were, they would have by now. So relax and keep enjoying the opportunity we have.

Posted by: lpguy6767

Hi folks this is my first post so i hope it comes out ok. did anyone read the atricle in the globe about the never ending saga about police details. lets ask a different question? as it stands now we are the only state that i know of that has police details, and everyone is up in arms over the cost bla bla bla well what if we were the only state that had NO police details then what would people say ( is teh commonwealth of (H) ackachusetts too cheap? please let me know what you think

Posted by: MM1799

Oh we saw it:
http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24356

If you dont want to read it, I'll sum up the general feeling..

Fuck the Globe, flagmen, the talkshow "experts", and the people who crash into our detail setup at 70mph.

Posted by: Sniper

Funny.......... I saw a couple Troopers out on the distressway yesterday with a patch crew. The hot top guys or whatever they are were working in the two left lanes filling potholes and the two cruisers were blocking both lanes......... I thought to myself "How would flagmen be able to SAFELY accomplish that task?"

Posted by: gooday

Just think how many people try to blow by cops on a detail. Do you realy think they are going to stop for a flagman. I can see the headlines now, Flagmen beat by motorist with road rage. This state is full of people in a hurry with shor fuses. I'm glad the police are out there. I have a friend that works for Boston P.D and he makes arests on details every so often. Flagmen cant do that.

And next time Ill put all the letters in my words when I post

Posted by: phuzz01

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpguy6767

as it stands now we are the only state that i know of that has police details,

That is not true. Massachusetts may be the only state that legally requires police details at all work sites. But that does not mean that it is the only state that uses police details. Here in NH, the vast majority of contractors hire police details even though they are not legally required to do so. They do it because it is safer for their workers, and it saves them money in insurance premiums.

Posted by: lpguy6767

now for those of you who took the time to read (please forgive me) that commie rag sheet aka the globe they once again went out to besmirch the fact the ome bpd made 200k or more So what?? lets try this on for size. lets say that we were the only state with out details then what would be said is that the comm. of hackachussetts is too cheap to support the police. more to follow..

Posted by: Wolfman

...waiting with baited breath...

Posted by: SinePari

Virginia has a detail program like ours. New VSP Troopers up in NOVA can easily top $100K if they want to bust their ass.

Posted by: dcs2244

NYS is using troopers at big sites on the Thruway...

Posted by: Sniper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfman

...waiting with baited breath...

Wolfie.......... Always good for a laugh.

Posted by: SinePari

Michael Graham was hammering the detail issue, as well as Fox 25 and NECN...well maybe not hammering, but expounding upon the Globe article. Each tax expert and moron who called the show said "the other 49 states don't have this issue"...ahh, do your freakin' research...yes there are other states that have traffic details.

A dude who makes $200K and is just a patrolman? I guarantee you that he has ZERO life outside the job. Most states officers work off-duty jobs at bars and other establishments that hire them for a detail rate. As I always say, there is an open and competitive exam if you wan't in.

Another piece of tabloid trash to keep the voters of the commonwealth numb from the neck up. Forget about the legislature that is reaching into your pockets every day for frivolous pet projects. But apparently more cops with radios and guns out there on the streets doing details is a bad thing for the citizens.

I've been hit on a detail and was out for a month. Guys are hit regularly on road details (remember the 495 crash last month?), and that's with a marked cruiser lights and a ticket book! I can say with absolute confidence that if I hadn't taken the hit, there would have been a fatality at my site by Mr. Not-Paying-Attention to all of the signs, cruisers, and cones.

Posted by: alphadog1

While driving on the NJ Turnpike at midnight last week, there was a NJSP working a detail with a travel lane shut down. And a few days later in Orlando, there were FL Troopers and deputy sheriffs working a road job together. I think the media got it wrong; only 47 other states don't have details!!

Posted by: SOT

I think it's an issue of mandatory if anything else.

Posted by: alphadog1

What's mandatory?

Posted by: Rock

If it's not 49 other states then does anyone know the acutal number of states that use flag men or hire details?

Posted by: SOT

I think MA is one of a few states that require police details for road work.
In most other states, they might have them but it's not required, it can be flagmen or police.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphadog1

What's mandatory?

Posted by: alphadog1

Then who decides to use the police or a flag man?

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

NH,VT,NJ,NY,RI and MA have details.

Posted by: GD

In RI they have choice of Flagmen or Police Officers. The flag people(man or woman) are usually useless.

Posted by: phuzz01

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphadog1

Then who decides to use the police or a flag man?

Here in NH, the contractor decides. In many cases, the contractor hires BOTH police and flag men. The flag men do the arm flapping, and the police are there to slow people down. I like those details.

Posted by: SinePari

Of course nobody takes into consideration the amount of traffic volume in the northeast, compared to other parts of the country that use flagmen.

Posted by: LA Copper

Unfortunately, we don't have details out here in the west. I wish we did but no such luck. For a road job, they use either the dreaded flagperson or they just lay a bunch of cones in the road. I've never heard of any problems related to it out here. We also aren't allowed to do off-duty work where alcohol is served.

I would love the opportunity to do details, just so I can pay for a plane ticket to go back there for a visit. Our overtime comes from doing police work either on a day off or extended watch and later going to court. There are guys who have off-duty jobs but those are the guys who are looking to make a lot of extra money.

Posted by: alphadog1

How much does a flag man company charge in NH?

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