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Main Page Rule 400/400A Boston
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: JoninNH

Just curious... Is anyone on the board a Boston Rule 400 (not 400A) Special Police Officer? Correct me if I am wrong here, 400As are the city employees and 400s are the specials employed by private companies in place of security... I'm right on that, aren't I?

Posted by: officer59

I believe you are correct on that. I was 400 once.

Posted by: Capt. Kirk

You are correct private security company's such as Naratoon and New World security are rule 400. Rule 400 guys if i am correct wear a red stripe/braid on their pants.

Posted by: BartA1

used to be a Boston Special Under Rule 400A. 400A covers employees of the City of Boston, or the Boston Housing Authority. The main difference between the 400 and 400A is the uniform restrictions, and the ability to transport prisoners. Also if you are armed under 400A you are allowed to carry a different firearm than people under 400.

Posted by: JoninNH

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of Rule 400/400A online? I wrote BPD and requested a copy already... still waiting on thier reply.

Posted by: MarkBoston

It's in the mail along with the check.

The difference between Rule 400 and 400A is simple.

400A - Officers attempted to do overtime for assignments outside of their scope of power. Were advised that would not be a good idea. But the vast majority of them are good officers and would make good BPD Officers.

400 - Guards would give their right arm to work outside of their property powers and when found doing so BPD uses their own handcuffs on them.

Just remember the only good Red Stripe is the beer.

Posted by: JoninNH

Well, that answers my next question nicely:

How do the 400/400A Specials get along with regular BPD officers?

If I were to base it all on MarkBoston's response, BPD doesn't particularly care for the 400 Specials. Anyone else want to weigh in?

Posted by: MarkBoston

400A Officers are full time academy trained and could go to almost any police department in the commonwealth based upon that department's hiring requirements. As I stated the majority of these officers are good people who do an excellent job within the scope of their authority. Like with any department there are a few problem children but that is for the internal process to take care of and not for an open board.

400 Guards who take a city approved training course that my senile aunt could pass. They are NON city employees and work for the concerns of private security companies in Boston. Most of the security companies I have seen would hire the dead if they thought putting the dead body on a post could pass muster. Of all the guards I have interacted with very few could work as a full time PO anywhere let alone Boston, the Mecca of law enforcement.

so in simple terms:

400A Good people who are trained properly and who operate with the scope of their authority.

400 You'll never hear on the radio..."No need to send backup, I got the security guard with me."

Posted by: JoninNH

So not too many 400 officers are MCJTC trained (its listed as an acceptable course, as if they needed to list it, for me it would go without saying) and BPD looks at them as armed guards. I know they have arrest (but not transport) authority... wanna explain how that works?

Posted by: Channy1984

From what I remember, when an R400 makes an Arrest BPD gets notified and they arrainge for a transport along with going to the station to fill out paperwork and stuff.

I went to one of the academies that R400's train at. It's all right. Its just a reserve/intermittent course (200 hours) condensed into five weeks in a paramilitary environment. It's no state police academy or anything but it's not a humpty dumpty day school course either. The instructors told me that theyre looking to rewrite rule 400 and enhance the traning standards.

Posted by: Macop

MarkBoston don't clump all the rule 400 people as bad. I have worked with some very good ones who are doing very well on town/city Police depts including myself. Its like any other dept/agency some are shit, most are good.

Posted by: MarkBoston

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macop @ Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:19 pm

MarkBoston don't clump all the rule 400 people as bad. I have worked with some very good ones who are doing very well on town/city Police depts including myself. Its like any other dept/agency some are shit, most are good.

Of all the guards I have interacted with very few could work as a full time PO anywhere

Since I have not dealt with every single security guard who is currently working in Boston I made the above qualifying statement. Plus I never said they were bad unless you are saying that by being under trained, uneducated, and unmotivated they could be called bad. In my little book of life experiences I have found most security guards to be a liability cases just waiting to happen.

Private security forces are often poorly trained, underpaid, and inadequately screened. Would-be criminals often get jobs with private security because the jobs are easy to get, and put them in contact with potential victims, ATM machines, bank vaults, etc. Security firms rarely, if ever, check applicants' criminal records, military service records, personal references, previous employers, educational claims, or psychological fitness. Of course, this isn't an argument against private security per se, but rather for higher standards. But, since no agency keeps statistics on security guard crime, there's no way to choose the firm with the best record.

The above came off the web...I remember reading once that Mark David Chapman, the killer of John Lennon worked as a security guard as did Ted Bundy. Needless to say as a general rule I don't trust security guards half as far as I can throw them...maybe even less since the last one went 8' 5" when I threw him, but does sliding on the floor when he lands count as part of the distance?

Posted by: RPD931

Quote:

I remember reading once that Mark David Chapman, the killer of John Lennon worked as a security guard as did Ted Bundy. Needless to say as a general rule I don't trust security guards half as far as I can throw them...

Interesting statement as a majority of Police Officers in this country have worked in the security field before becoming a PO....

Posted by: MarkBoston

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPD931 @ Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:11 pm

Quote:

Interesting statement as a majority of Police Officers in this country have worked in the security field before becoming a PO....

and some still are and will always be just a security guard.

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBoston @ 17 Aug 2004 06:32

400A Officers are full time academy trained and could go to almost any police department in the commonwealth based upon that department's hiring requirements... 400A Good people who are trained properly and who operate with the scope of their authority.

I'm rule 400A and I haven't gone to a full time academy yet. Hmmm...

Some of the above comments you made about 400s, MarkBoston, sound like a familiar type of hostility that I'm so accustomed to hearing with regard to GUARDS from certain other members of the 400A rule...

And the hierarchy of "real cop" status goes on!

Posted by: MarkBoston

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer Dunngeon @ Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:30 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBoston @ 17 Aug 2004 06:32

actually you are somewhere in between as a unarmed site officer. Sorry if I spilled the beans.

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

No problem, Bull. It was never a secret.

But you're wrong, I'm not in between... I'm definately 400A, just like any other Muni, armed or unarmed!

Posted by: stm4710

Quote:

And the hierarchy of "real cop" status goes on!

No kiddin!
If we stayed within the scope of our dutys and repsected each other we could advance the "job" in both safety and effenicy a lot faster than keeping the "holyer than though" ego's and stop takeing out your wangs for pissing contests on every call.

The fire service and LE community constantly beat our selves up and hold our selves back by keeping up the BS ego's and infighting, instead of working together to get more cops and ff's out of the wel-fare/un-employment lines and on the job were they are needed. Both services need to work on the huge problem we face of going home in the same condition as you went to work in.

If anyone needs an example of pissing contests,look at whats going on between the NYPD ESU's and FDNY Rescue companys---------its insane. All this in fighting and what do we have to show for it? Bald heads and lots and lots of nothing.

The fire dont care, it will kill you the same, vollie or carrer.
The bullet is the same, muni,state,400-A etc.

Yup............To protect & serve...........not, piss& show.

Before you start your frantic type fest to reply mark...........this wasnt directed at you........it is directed to everyone that puts on a uniform on.

Posted by: MarkBoston

Spellcheck...Please the people must think some of us have flunked out of sixth grade.

definitely not definately

If we stayed within the scope of our dutys and repsected each other we could advance the "job" in both safety and effenicy a lot faster than keeping the "holyer than though" ego's and stop takeing out your wangs for pissing contests on every call.

Thank God I was never your instructor, you would still be after school.

FYI: I have a Johnson, not a Wang. Wang is the real small version and usually is Asian.

But all kidding aside, please check your documents before submitting them. If you do reports like this it will hurt your chances of ever being a "real" cop.

How's that for ego!

Posted by: Officer Dunngeon

My faux pas... it's not like me to make a spelling mistake but I guess I'm not perfect; I'm only an unarmed non-full trained academy 400A officer. My spelling is usually so intact! Thank God I know how to punctuate flawlessly; commas are no joke, especially when you need to fill out those site log sheets!

I promise to be a better speller and site officer from now on...

Posted by: Gil

Ahhh the days of New Girls, god I miss that place. I wonder what rank Anthony White is now? A Commander Major probably.

I did like working in the city and I was right at home on mids but some of the guys I worked with were a little nutty. There were some that went on to city or town departments but the nutty ones are still there.

I can remember one morning we are sitting on Columbia Rd (400 block). and my partner and I see BPD getting ready to do a raid on one of the proprieties that New World had, anyway this nut gets pissed that BPD did not notify us of the raid

I had all I could do to keep the lil shit in the car, he wanted to go over and give BPD shit for not notifying us first. I could not believe what I was hearing.

Only one BPD officer would even talk with us (Betty) that worked mids in B2. Other than that the only other BPD officers we talked to were the ones pulling us over because of the shit boxes New World made you drive.

I was only there for a little over a year but it was interesting to say the least.

Posted by: HousingCop

OK Just to clear up any misconceptions here.

R400a specifically applies to Boston Housing, Boston Municipal & Boston School Police departments. It differs slightly from R400 in that we can no longer apply for search warrants (B.S. since several members of my dept have applied and recieved one) Carry a 9MM pistol with a grey stripe instead of the "dreaded red!" Can transport our own prisoners, have blue lights & siren. Have the words POLICE & BOSTON on our patches & badges. Wear metal collar insignia, stupid crap like that........

It was changed back in 1996 by Sgt Arthur McCarthy BPD to keep his thumb down on us even more. He was assigned here as a liason and left under mysterious circumstances.... He is now back in the BPD Academy. Perfect example of "If you can, do. If you can't do, teach. If you can't teach, teach at the police academy."
NudeGirls, Third World, Wacken-Nuts, Urban/Burbon Patrol, the list goes on ad infinitum. Some guys there are good and can & do make good cops later on in their careers. Some guys are still there 15+ years later, still pretending to be what they cannot be, cops. Plain & simple, there is a minority of individuals there who do not belong in LE work, just like there is a minority in LE work that do not belong as well.

The other night, there was some nut on Seaver Street in a Crown Vic pasing out his card from Atlanta Housing Patrol. He was explaining to the Alliance guys that he could hook them up down in GA right away. He's an ex-Muni site officer from waaaaaay back in the day circa 1986. He's the Chief Enforcement Officer / Colonel / Big Man On Campus on his card. He's got a bit of baggage as I recall. His closet is chock full of skeletons! Beware of this man people. Check his SOR level and CORI him before you make the trip south.

Sorry if I have spelled any words wrong. I didn't mean to offend Chief Spelling from the earlier thread.

Posted by: JoninNH

With that settled, can we close the thread? Thanks all for your comments.

Posted by: Gil

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoninNH @ Thu Aug 19, 07:15

With that settled, can we close the thread? Thanks all for your comments.

Second that, the motion carries.

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