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Main Page WMS Warrants
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Posted by: Pinkos307

Just trying to find out what others think:

A federal Park Ranger pulled over a car and the driver handed him a expired license. When the officer ran the driver, he came up suspended due to a WMS warrant for failure to appear on driving while suspended and failure to stop. Since we are federal we can not arrest based on a WMS (state) warrant. So our dispatch called Boston to come get this guy. After waiting 45 minutes, BPD showed up they let the guy call a friend to pick him up and take him to court. BPD's reasoning for letting him go is because he promise to go straight to the court house. The guy had a driving record 4 pages long and I doubt he went to the court house to clear this up.

What do you think of letting someone walk who has a WMS warrant??? although the warrant was "minor" because it was for MV infractions, a warrant is a warrant. Just my thoughts.

Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

I dont understand why a federal agency can not act on a WMS warrant??????

Posted by: union1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkos307 @ Wed 04 Aug, 2004

Just trying to find out what others think:

A federal Park Ranger pulled over a car and the driver handed him a expired license. When the officer ran the driver, he came up suspended due to a WMS warrant for failure to appear on driving while suspended and failure to stop. Since we are federal we can not arrest based on a WMS (state) warrant. So our dispatch called Boston to come get this guy. After waiting 45 minutes, BPD showed up they let the guy call a friend to pick him up and take him to court. BPD's reasoning for letting him go is because he promise to go straight to the court house. The guy had a driving record 4 pages long and I doubt he went to the court house to clear this up.

What do you think of letting someone walk who has a WMS warrant??? although the warrant was "minor" because it was for MV infractions, a warrant is a warrant. Just my thoughts.

Nice to know Boston is earning their 14.5% payraise. They consitently do that to us as well. We have gotten into the habbit of calling the State or MBTA (Agencies who actualy lift a finger"

Posted by: j809

You don't have discretion on a warrant. The law states you "SHALL" not 'MAY". I know some departments that if you did that , you'd get suspended. BPD is exempt from Mass General Laws.

Posted by: MarkBoston

Here is a little food for thought...Depending upon the district and the time of day there is almost always a shortage of officers available. Last week during the DNC certain districts had 3 men working a shift. If the officer were to make that arrest for the minor traffic violation and go off to the station for a report and booking where does that leave the citizens of that district? In reality the officer made the correct decision and stayed on patrol to provide coverage. What if while he was at the station there was several other incidents requiring PO's?.

Posted by: Pinkos307

Hopefully this will clear up some of the questions

As far as Federal Park Ranger arresting based on WMS, we can not. We are not recognized by the state as Peace Officers. Therefore, if we arrested someone and took them to US (federal) District Court, what would the judge do with them. We do not take criminals to State District Court. That is why we need to call Boston PD.

MarkBoston,

The Area was A-15 (Charlestown) and it just happen the other day (after the DNC was well over). We had already written the individual on the traffic violation, all BPD had to do was transport to A-1based on the warrant and write in their report the the man was handed over from another agency. Seems pretty simple to me.

Posted by: dfc2502

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkos307 @ Thu August 05, 2004 9:30 am

Hopefully this will clear up some of the questions

As far as Federal Park Ranger arresting based on WMS, we can not. We are not recognized by the state as Peace Officers. Therefore, if we arrested someone and took them to US (federal) District Court, what would the judge do with them. We do not take criminals to State District Court. That is why we need to call Boston PD.

MarkBoston,

The Area was A-15 (Charlestown) and it just happen the other day (after the DNC was well over). We had already written the individual on the traffic violation, all BPD had to do was transport to A-1based on the warrant and write in their report the the man was handed over from another agency. Seems pretty simple to me.

Forgive my naivete, but if you can cite for criminal motor vehicle violations why can't you make the arrest for same?

Posted by: mpd61

A warrant is a warrant, is a warrant. "You SHALL arrest"

Back some years ago I let a woman go on a failure to appear jury duty warrant. She was clean citizen (no BOP, no driving history) with two little tykes in car at about 9 pm. I told her she must directly contact the court in the a.m. Next day the Chief pointed out that I was on probation and he considered letting me go for "dereliction of duty"
He stated ANY warrant of arrest means just that. It's up to the magistrate to be nice and let em go for minimum$$$ Yikes!!!!

Posted by: MarkBoston

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkos307 @ Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:30 am

Write a 1-1 incident report, and booking, and transport to A-1 depending on traffic and such 2 hours or so. For a couple of traffic violations? How many PO's were on duty that night in A-15? We don't know, we do know that almost any other call is more important then moving violations. When you have a area to cover that is as large a A-15 with the broad range of people and problems you learn to do triage.

What might be a big deal to those looking in from the outside might be the slow part of the night for those in the know.

It's all about understanding that what is big to some is little to others. Traffic arrests don't mean much after a couple of felony arrests which a A-15 rookie will make within a few weeks of getting assigned to the district.

Posted by: Pinkos307

I am not trying to make this a big deal, but what you are saying is that as a PO, you have more authority than a judge to make a decision concerning a warrant (felony or misdeamenor)???

No matter how BIG or how little a call is, you need to deal with every situation. For example, I work on an ambulance part time. One day, I worked 4 cardiac arrests and got one call for a drunk, which the PO's were too lazy to drive to the shelter. Come to find out the POs where on a coffee break.

So am I to take the DK as a little call and leave him there becuase I am too good doing cardiac arrests??? I don't think so.

The dispatcher assigned them that call, so one would have to presume that there were no other BIG calls. Every call is as important as the next no matter how big or little they are.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkos307 @ Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:34 pm

Every call is as important as the next no matter how big or little they are.

That's a great "academy attitude", but you have to understand where this guy is coming from...3 hours to process a traffic arrest? When kids are getting shot in his city? I'll be the first one to admit that things can get mighty slow where I work, but I won't Monday morning QB guys from cities like Boston and Springfield. It's whole different WORLD out there. Would I make that arrest? Absolutely. If I was a BPD Officer, I would tend to think not.

As far as cops knowing "more than a Judge", sometimes they do. I've had Judges ask me questions about M/V and criminal laws, in open court. They are certainly not infallible or omniscent.

Posted by: ecpd402

Working in Boston I can understand BPD's position. There is too much craziness to deal with a traffic violation. We get all kinds of minor infractions around us. I have book a warrant in Boston the average time for booking an 1-1 is around three hours. Its the same as seeing a guy drinking in public. Yes you can arrest but are you going to deal with the hole booking process or just take his booze away. As a police Officer you need to budget your time wisely. If it was a felony warrant then the Boston Officer should have arrested him. If you as a federal agency still believed he should have been locked up. Try asking you chain of command if there is a way that you can be sworn in as a state special or deputy sheriff. I would take offense to the Boston Officers action. I have seen the circus first hand at BMC and A-1

Posted by: MarkBoston

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkos307 @ Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:34 pm

For example, I work on an ambulance part time. One day, I worked 4 cardiac arrests and got one call for a drunk, which the PO's were too lazy to drive to the shelter. Come to find out the POs where on a coffee break.

Every hear of the federal law requiring a 15 minute break and a lunch period per 8 hour shift? I dislike you calling any PO lazy. It is bad enough that the public feels that way without an alleged brother officer saying it. So the PO's are suppose to drop everything to drive a drunk? You also want them to arrest your MV stop? Minor petty incidents are not a priority when you work in a city that has major felonies going on constantly. While the level of importance for you with these two incidents are high, for the average Boston PO they are so low it is no longer even worth talking about.

Remember the First Commandment of Law Enforcement:
Thou shall not speak ill of another officer in public.
and this is a public forum...

Posted by: j809

We are not talking about a traffic violation here people. We are talking about letting someone go that had an active warrant for his/her arrest. A warrant entered by the court in the WMS system. We don't write the laws, we enforce them.I know what I would have done and I am sure that if they arrested that person on the warrant, the public safety in Boston would not have been jeopardized. Also as far as federal officers enforcing MA laws, I used to see the VA Police in Brockton at the Brockton District Court dropping off criminal complaints. I also sen federal park rangers in Concord stopping cars and issuing CH90 tickets on 2A by the Minuteman Reservation. Also, it doesn't take me two hours to process a warrant arrest and I work with another person on. In Boston, you transport, drop him off in booking and do a quickie report with the warrant printed out and put him in a cell. We can process a warrant arrest in 30 minutes and then place him in the cell.

Posted by: csauce30

Quote:

Also, it doesn't take me two hours to process a warrant arrest and I work with another person on. In Boston, you transport, drop him off in booking and do a quickie report with the warrant printed out and put him in a cell. We can process a warrant arrest in 30 minutes and then place him in the cell.

Im not trying to add fuel to the fire here, but I book at A-1 also, and in my experience (many trips to A-1) it has only taken me 3 hours for a good drug arrest, or when they are really busy in the booking room. I brought in a warrant arrest who also had new charges from me, and he was booked, placed in a cell, the warrant was signed and faxed to the warrant room, my 1-1 was finished and signed by Lt. Chin and my complaint was done and in the BMC box within 1 hour. I have seen it take a few hours for a long arrest for dope or whatever, but its not always a long 3 hour process for a warrant.

Also, why is it that "Any officer authorized to serve criminal process" as printed on the warrant, does not include the National Park Rangers??

Posted by: MarkBoston

OK here we go with the big picture...The person with the MV outstanding warrant was stopped by a Park Ranger for a traffic violation. So what is the BPD PO suppose to do with the car after he arrested the person? Tow it is the correct answer. So now we have one cruiser transporting the big MV warrant arrest and another cruiser standing by waiting for the tow truck. Don't forget to also inventory the car's property. Now we have two cruisers out of action for a petty MV warrant. This is not some small town that looks for something to do that we are talking about. It is Boston where people are raped, robbed, and murdered all the time. How would you like to explain to a family member "sorry, we could not get to your house right away we had two cars off on a MV violation arrest warrant."

PS Don't say the Park Ranger could stand by the car awaiting the tow. Once BPD arrests someone everything belongs to BPD even the car towing.

I understand what the law says about SHALL and MAY. In the real world seasoned professionals make decisions in two seconds that lawyers and judges have years to make. It is all about priorities in the best interest of public safety in the largest city in New England. Not what they do in some town out near whereverville.

If you are so bored that you look for trouble you will learn one day that the trouble you find in front of you is not as bad as the trouble that sneaked up on you from behind.

Posted by: DC813

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBoston @ Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:04 pm

OK here we go with the big picture...The person with the MV outstanding warrant was stopped by a Park Ranger for a traffic violation. So what is the BPD PO suppose to do with the car after he arrested the person? Tow it is the correct answer. So now we have one cruiser transporting the big MV warrant arrest and another cruiser standing by waiting for the tow truck. Don't forget to also inventory the car's property. Now we have two cruisers out of action for a petty MV warrant. This is not some small town that looks for something to do that we are talking about. It is Boston where people are raped, robbed, and murdered all the time. How would you like to explain to a family member "sorry, we could not get to your house right away we had two cars off on a MV violation arrest warrant."

PS Don't say the Park Ranger could stand by the car awaiting the tow. Once BPD arrests someone everything belongs to BPD even the car towing.

I understand what the law says about SHALL and MAY. In the real world seasoned professionals make decisions in two seconds that lawyers and judges have years to make. It is all about priorities in the best interest of public safety in the largest city in New England. Not what they do in some town out near whereverville.

If you are so bored that you look for trouble you will learn one day that the trouble you find in front of you is not as bad as the trouble that sneaked up on you from behind.

I can't help but agree of this view of the Boston PD and this situation....how many of us have looked the other way in the interest of responding to something more pressing or remaining clear because the possibility of something arising is great at a particular time. We are ALWAYS outnumbered on the street...especially somewhere like Boston. Being clear for more important calls at a particular time or remaining clear to be able to back up other units is sometimes more pressing than enforcing the letter of the law. After you've been on for a while you get a sense of when to keep the blinders on in the interest of more pressing concerns. And finally, we DON"T know at this juncture what was going on in that district or other districts at the time of this incident or "the vibe" the district officers were getting on the street that night to make them decide to handle that way. It's very difficult to second guess after the fact without all the information.

And finally, all I know is Boston PD has MORE than it's fair share of violence directed at police up to and including shootings and murder of their cops, and until you are in that situaiton you really can't judge it.

Posted by: Deuce

[quote=
What do you think of letting someone walk who has a WMS warrant??? although the warrant was "minor" because it was for MV infractions, a warrant is a warrant. Just my thoughts.[/quote]

Let me bounce this off you. Let's say you grab a walker or a junkie and she/he has a misdemeanor warrant. You flip said person for a bigger fish, say someone with a gun or large amounts of class A/B. You going to feel guilty for letting the MD warrant walk? Is does say "shall arrest" right? Big picture man......

Posted by: RPD931

My 2 cents... BPD has a few good cops, but I do have to say they mostly have piss-poor response. Even sometimes not showing up. You call their dispatch back and the tell you they were there but couldn't find anyone.. BS!! In some cases we were standing in the street...

MarkBoston says:

Quote:

It's a default warrant!! Yes, arrest him and tow it. That's your job.

And:

Quote:

In Police work its a "working lunch break". Duty calls first. God forbid you don't get your break... And its nice to know BPD turns a blind eye on "minor petty incidents". Yeah, let the drunk go.. let him go back to his car and drive home.. maybe he'll kill someone.. but hey, it's not a big deal until he does... If their are so many felonies going on maybe more of you should be on the road and not in the station.. Nothing like being at the local district with a subject and seeing 3 quarters of the shift standing around shooting the breeze...

God forbid if you're proactive...

Like I said, there are SOME good PO's in Boston, but there are many others that give them (BPD) a crappy reputation.

Posted by: MarkBoston

"My 2 cents... BPD has a few good cops, but I do have to say they mostly have piss-poor response"
"It's a default warrant!! Yes, arrest him and tow it. That's your job."

This is your opinion based upon your vast law enforcement experience at the hospital and as a P/T Officer in Warren, MA. I am sure the BPD officers who response to your calls at the hospital will be interested in knowing that in your "professional law enforcement opinion" that you do not think highly of them.

Not one person on this board, including myself has any idea on how many other calls were stacked up that night awaiting an officer. Yet you want to take not one, but two cruisers off for a MV violation. Does Warren even run two cruisers at the same time? I suggest you rethink your opinion of the average BPD Officer. Could be one or two might read this board and not be happy with your opinion.

"It's better to say nothing and be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

Posted by: RPD931

Quote:

This is your opinion based upon your vast law enforcement experience at the hospital and as a P/T Officer in Warren, MA.

My "vast" LE experience includes alot more than that...

Quote:

Does Warren even run two cruisers at the same time?

YES! There is actually ALOT of crime in that town.

Quote:

I am sure the BPD officers who response to your calls at the hospital will be interested in knowing that in your "professional law enforcement opinion" that you do not think highly of them.

We basically only call them for "Off Property" stuff... we handle pretty much everything. 911 calls from within or the immediate perimeter of MGH get "farmed" back to us by your BPD dispatch. The only "response" to MGH normally is to give BPD a "heads-up" or to take a report or speak to a witness regarding a serious crime. MSP are very useful...Most of the regular guys that we see are pretty good guys. Like I said, theres also quite a few that could careless about being a PO...

I guess I rather be proactive than reactive.... Sorry, I was venting. BPD is a great department overall - except for the "couldn't give a shit guys"... It's just when I hear folks call a crime 'petty' in the manner that it is NOT important, that really ticks me off. Maybe to you a minor crime is "petty crap" but not to the victims. Sorry that you would have to wait for a tow to show up. Two cruisers? Call the wagon to scoop him/her up.. then wait for a tow.

Posted by: CampusOfficer

Can the Rangers not transport their own prisoners? Why would Boston PD have to transport the prisoner from another department? If the Rangers could ransport, you wouldn't be tying up any BPD units (other than the booking Officer). When I worked in Boston (SSPO), we always transported our own prisoners; probably for this very reason.

Posted by: MarkBoston

"I guess I rather be proactive than reactive.... Sorry, I was venting. BPD is a great department overall - except for the "couldn't give a shit guys"... It's just when I hear folks call a crime 'petty' in the manner that it is NOT important, that really ticks me off. Maybe to you a minor crime is "petty crap" but not to the victims. Sorry that you would have to wait for a tow to show up. Two cruisers? Call the wagon to scoop him/her up.. then wait for a tow."

Proactive is nice and it is possible in a town like Warren, MA, with a population of less then 4,500. But the difference between Warren, MA, and Boston is best described as the difference between the Moon and the Earth. Both are round that's it, much like Warren and Boston both being in Mass.

Now Boston is a great department overall, gee what a difference a day makes.

"Maybe to you a minor crime is "petty crap" but not to the victims." Please advise me where the victims are in this person not being arrested for outstanding motor vehicle violations. Considering your vast law enforcement experience you can not only enlighten me, but the rest of the board members.

Now you suggest a wagon to transport and the arresting officer to stand by waiting for the tow truck. Next time you have a chance take a look inside one of the BPD wagons guess what you will see...TWO Officers. So now you want THREE Officers and two units for a MV violation warrant.

You'll make a great Chief out in Whereverville. but please leave the inner city police work to trained dedicated urban police officers who understand how to manage their resources. Looking in from the outside after watching 12 hours of "COPS" on your DVD player just will not do.

Posted by: bbelichick

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBoston @ Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:41 pm

Looking in from the outside after watching 12 hours of "COPS" on your DVD player just will not do.

Damn it, another bullet point I have to take off the Resume. I suppose owning season 1 of "Reno 911" on DVD isn't considered a "qualification" either??

Posted by: Gil

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkBoston @ 8/9/2004 3:41:39 PM

Looking in from the outside after watching 12 hours of "COPS" on your DVD player just will not do.

COPS is nothing but an ongoing training video for criminals. I wouldn't mind it a bit if it was canceled but I don't think you will ever see that happen.

As far as the BPD incident, wasn't there, don't know that facts, no comment.

Posted by: MarkBoston

Good way to end it. Thank you.

Posted by: dfc2502

Pinkos, this may be straying off topic slightly and for that I'm sorry, BUT if making the arrest was so damn important why not make the arrest for OAS. Let the clerk know about the warrant when he bails the shit bum. If he was held, just let the court know. You had an arrestable MV offense, why pawn the warrant off on someone else.

Posted by: Pinkos307

I am not saying that making an arrest is so damn important. The federal system not set up like the state system. First if you get arrested, there is no bail. You sit in jail until you see the judge. Secondly we don't arrest for motor vehicle infractions. Thirdly when the individual has their day in court, the officer will tell the judge about the warrant, BOP and driving history.

Under 36 CFR 4.2 (b) we can assimilate any state motor law that we need. But we can not enforce all laws of the Commonwealth, which includes arresting someone for a state warrant. If this individual warrant was a federal warrant, we would take him no questions asked. But since we are not deputized or SSPOs in this state we can not enforce a state warrant (therefore cannot transport anywhere). The only thing we can currently do is detain until a Boston Officer either was to take the subject or not.

We are not trying to pawn off work on Boston, or make their job any harder. If anything we would want to have a better working relationship and be able to help them. But unfortunately we are stuck in how much we can help. Officers here would love to do more but we can't. So until some deputization or SSPOs powers get worked out, then we are stuck with what we can do.

Posted by: MarkBoston

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkos307 @ Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:11 pm

I am not saying that making an arrest is so damn important. The federal system not set up like the state system. First if you get arrested, there is no bail. You sit in jail until you see the judge. Secondly we don't arrest for motor vehicle infractions. Thirdly when the individual has their day in court, the officer will tell the judge about the warrant, BOP and driving history.

Under 36 CFR 4.2 (b) we can assimilate any state motor law that we need. But we can not enforce all laws of the Commonwealth, which includes arresting someone for a state warrant. If this individual warrant was a federal warrant, we would take him no questions asked. But since we are not deputized or SSPOs in this state we can not enforce a state warrant (therefore cannot transport anywhere). The only thing we can currently do is detain until a Boston Officer either was to take the subject or not.

We are not trying to pawn off work on Boston, or make their job any harder. If anything we would want to have a better working relationship and be able to help them. But unfortunately we are stuck in how much we can help. Officers here would love to do more but we can't. So until some deputization or SSPOs powers get worked out, then we are stuck with what we can do.

Better working relationship sounds nice. The Boston Police Dept. traditionally frowns on any other agency attempting to "help" them. I mean what's next you want to work details for BPD too? I recommend that you know your role, make the best of it, and not try to get extra powers from either the state or Suffolk Co. If you start getting some extra powers then you might think to wander off your property and try to enforce laws else where. Considering that most people think of "Ranger Smith" when they think of Park Rangers, that would not be a good idea. Be happy with getting paid for being in a historical location that I have visited several times with friends and family. You are not trained for urban police work, it would be dangerous to try it alone or with just 1 or 2 other Rangers for distance back up.

It's better to get paid to smile, then it is to get paid to see frowns.

Posted by: RPD931

Better working relationship sounds nice. The Boston Police Dept. traditionally frowns on any other agency attempting to "help" them.
No really?!?!... They (BPD) need to help themselves first.

I mean what's next you want to work details for BPD too? I recommend that you know your role, make the best of it, and not try to get extra powers from either the state or Suffolk Co. If you start getting some extra powers then you might think to wander off your property and try to enforce laws else where. Considering that most people think of "Ranger Smith" when they think of Park Rangers, that would not be a good idea. Be happy with getting paid for being in a historical location that I have visited several times with friends and family. You are not trained for urban police work, it would be dangerous to try it alone or with just 1 or 2 other Rangers for distance back up.
Sounds like typical mumbo jumbo from a hardnose union man, and a do-less work Officer. Pinkos knows his role, thats why he waited for BPD.... It's apparent BPD doesn't know their role as a LEO. But thats OK, they (BPD) get paid to smile. Want to do BPD details? Why, so they can work next to guys like you? And we all know how if they start working details BPD doesn't take - they would still be taking food from your family's mouth...

Your attitude gives BPD a bad shine... not here for a pissin' contest, I'm done in this thread...

Posted by: Irishpride

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPD931 @ Thu 12 Aug, 2004

I'm done in this thread...[/i]

Me too, I think its just a matter of two separate agencies with different priorities and this tread is starting to stray down the path of agency bashing (both the Park Rangers and BPD), so with that I'll put this topic to bed.

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