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Main Page Less Than Lethal Or "Ouch that really stings"
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: SOT

Obviously in the world of LTL technology there is the Taser, they are pretty interesting energy weapons, and seem to do the job. Granted they have been getting a lot of press about being linked to a series of deaths in custody...but one should consider that most of the people in question were probably in an at risk category to start with. Anyway...so you have the taser, good for a stand off of about 21 feet or so...but what else is there?

Two other interesting products are the PepperBall system and the FN 303 Launcher.

The PepperBall system is basically a paintball gun that runs on compressed air(HPA) or Co2 (in MA you should be using HPA as the weather changes too much to use Co2). They have special paintballs that are filled with PAVA (Capsaicin II) to help ruin a bad guys day.
I've been hit with these little beauties and they 1. hurt: 2. burn your mucous membranes up pretty bad. Not sure if any dealers demo this system or carry in MA but contact the company for more information.
They can be found at:
PepperBall Systems

Another more stand off technology is the FN 303. It basically uses the same principle (HPA )except that the launcher has a bit longer range, costs a little more, and has different rounds available. The FN 303 can be a shoulder fired stand-alone or mounted under anotherr rifle. Being somewhat of an accuracy nut, this FN 303 really appeals to me. In our testing I could consistently (28 out of 30 rounds) hit a 4 inch gong at 50 yards. On a MA-Q target, it was 30 out of 30 at 50 yards. Now you say well that's like 8MOA or worse. but remember we are talking a larger odd looking paintball.

FN 303

For crowd control where there may be multiple targets from point blank to 25 yards the Pepper Ball system seems to be pretty good. In situations where you probably will not engage as many targets or need accuracy at a greater range, the FN 303 looks to be a better solution.

Posted by: TheFuzz357

Less than Lethal would mean there is no possibility of death or serious bodily injury using these weapons. A better choice of words would be "Less Lethal" meaning there is considerably less chance of someone getting killed or seriously injured using these systems. Like with all less lethal munitions there is a chance of serious injury/death when used improperly. Therefore they might not fit the definition of Less Than Lethal.

In today's overly litigious society we need to be very careful in our terminology. The reason they call them Pepperball Systems and not "guns" is to get away from the negative conotation the ultra liberal media would use for these devices. If we refer to them as guns we will have a hard time convincing anyone, let alone a jury, that they are less lethal alternatives to firearms.

Just my

Posted by: SOT

For me a" less lethal" system is one that downgrades a lethal system but offers a high chance of injury. Less lethal shotgun rounds, 40mm grenades, grenades with rubber projectiles v. steel etc.
Less than lethal would be a system that was never intended to be lethal by design, but might cause injury or death if used incorrectly or against an at risk individual. Then there is the non lethal technologies...but it's a good point...NIJ tosses the various terms around farily freely.

In reality of marketing, the pepperball is a non-lethal system and the FN is sold as less lethal AND as a less than lethal. We'll just have to see how these terms all hash out.

Example
Less than Lethal

Less Lethal

We sell less lethal shotgun rounds but most of the ground up less than lethal systems are sort of named just that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFuzz357 @ Sat 31 Jul, 2004 19:38

Less than Lethal would mean there is no possibility of death or serious bodily injury using these weapons. A better choice of words would be "Less Lethal" meaning there is considerably less chance of someone getting killed or seriously injured using these systems. Like with all less lethal munitions there is a chance of serious injury/death when used improperly. Therefore they might not fit the definition of Less Than Lethal.

In today's overly litigious society we need to be very careful in our terminology. The reason they call them Pepperball Systems and not "guns" is to get away from the negative conotation the ultra liberal media would use for these devices. If we refer to them as guns we will have a hard time convincing anyone, let alone a jury, that they are less lethal alternatives to firearms.

Just my

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