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Posted by: MCLEA

From a State College Police Officer:

I have been a very unsatisfied ASFCME member for over five years and
I find it disheartening that the ONLY time they seem to care about
our membership is when they collect our dues. The only benefit we
seem to get is a dumb ASFCME magazine in our mailbox with stories
about nurses and steel workers.

ASFCME has never communicated with members of our Department about
our needs or feelings in regards to union business. I feel that a
select few ASFCME Stewards make decisions for the entire union with
little or no input from the dues paying members.


Posted by: FSCPD

So while we're sharing information, could we all hear what exactly MCLEA plans to do for us? What do you plan to fight for? How are we going to pay for arbitration and lawyers with no startup money? is there startup money already? Howmuch will dues be?
What are the pros. I've heard all about the cons of my current union. Anyone can say bad things.
Tell me nice things about you.

Really, I mean it... I swear I'm not an ass... not a big one anyway.


Posted by: MCLEA

You have already made up your mind not to support MCLEA... We are not going to waste our time, effort, and energy "selling" this to you. Such a discussion would only serve to further hostilities. We discussed these issues in detail at open MCLEA meetings, which you failed to attend, in both Worcester and Fitchburg.

Best of luck with AFSCME.

If anyone who is considering supporting MCLEA would like to constructively discuss the points raised by the previous post, please send a private message or contact a MCLEA member.


Posted by: SSPO#11

The purpose of threads like this is information sharing.....

I was first skeptical of the idea of forming a new union....I have been fed so many lies about not having representation, for a year after switching unions.

Then MCLEA came along.....at the first informational meeting Attorney Simoneau along with assistance from Attorney Brennan turned me around completely 100%. First of all as far as lawyers go it would be 100% for all members of MCLEA during the inital phase of forming the union. Brain assisted in forming the Framingham Police Union and has tons and tons of experience with this type of law. Also he is an attorney assisting that worked with S.P.A.M. (State Police Union) We are not going in here blind with reckless abandon.

As far as the union goes......WE decide what we want. We decide what goes in the contract. That is the beauty of this. We would have an executive board with a President, Vice President, Secretary, and Treasurer. There also would be one agency representative to make sure EVERY Campus P.O's concerns are addressed.
As far as dues go.....we would vote on everything. We would decide what type of services we would like to include with the union dues. Nothing would be done out of the blue without union members knowing or perhaps voting.

I was fed the same LIES you were so I know where your coming from. Have an open mind about this.....I don't know if your decision is already made but some of the veteran officers carefully looked at both sides and realized that this will only help us in the long run.

Again sir....it's your choice nobody is forcing anyone......this is to help us and bring us together as ONE.

#11


Posted by: FSCPD

Thank you, SSPO#11
That was very open and helpful.
I appreciate you taking the time to talk.


Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

In the Summer of 2001 negotiations were going on with the current AFSCME Higher Ed contract where a campus police officer for the first time was involved with negotiating the contract. That officer a good friend of mine proposed to the union that campus police officers should have their own bargaining unit which in turn would be called unit 3 which would be exclusively campus police officers.
The AFSCME leaders claimed "NO WAY IT CANT BE DONE" YOU WILL NEVER SEE A UNIT #3 FOR CPOs IT'S IMPOSSIBLE" Now AFSCME has discovered that we want to separate from the union or in the exact words from the union a coup is going on. So they rally up and decide to visit each college in efforts to stop this so call coup where now they say oh a unit #3 IS POSSIBLE for campus police HUMMMMMMMMMMMM Then AFSCME says if the campus police want their own union they will have to wait a year. HUMMMMMMMMMMM another lie. Then I get a call saying the Dental and Vision plans are funded by the AFSCME union HUMMMMMMM again another lie.
I don't know about anyone else but I do not like to be lied too. I get it enough from the public I don't need my union to be liars too. GO!!!!!!! MCLEA!!!!!!


Posted by: michaelbos

TO: FSCPD: Can you tell me about that waiting for a year if you want to drop from your Union to have another represent you. I heard a while back if a group did vote to have another union represent them, they would be un-protected for a year. What is the real facts?

Thanks


Posted by: fscpd903

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelbos @ Fri Jul 23, 2004 4:14 pm
TO: FSCPD: Can you tell me about that waiting for a year if you want to drop from your Union to have another represent you. I heard a while back if a group did vote to have another union represent them, they would be un-protected for a year. What is the real facts?

Thanks
This question has come up in the MCLEA yahoo group and we were told that is incorrect info. Im sure Brian could explain it much better than I can, I would suggest emailing him to get the answer. From what I understand we would still be eligable to receive everything from the AFSCME contract even if we left the union. Also I believe Brian stated at one of the meetings that he would represent us if there was any time period of no representation.

Posted Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:13 pm:

People it’s very simple why MCLEA would be so beneficial. Forming our own association with bargaining capabilities could finally bring college law enforcement out of the dark ages. We perform the same job on a daily basis as our fellow town and city police officers but have never gained the same respect or recognition that they have. We make less money, we have less equipment and we perform duties that cops have no business performing yet when it comes down to it we are expected to do the exact same job! Maybe some of this is our college administration but I believe much of it has to do with our affiliation to a union who is primarily made up of facilities workers.

For instance some people say that a union has no bearing on arming a department. I disagree!! One of the main things a union should be doing is fighting to make sure its members have the proper tools to do their jobs. AFSCME will never help us in our pursuit to become armed. They can't!! They are devoted to the majority, which is janitors, not cops. What would stop a janitor from asking to become armed? AFSCME fought for the police to be armed! Why not the janitors too?

How about detail rates? Why is it that when Gov Romney came to Framingham State recently I had to stand in between protesters and the Gov as a paid detail and the 2 Framingham PD guys we hired got paid 3 times as much as I did because of the fact there were protesters? I did the same exact job they did but this inherent danger did not apply to me!! Sure I guess we could ask AFSCME for a standardized detail rate but they won't do it because then the janitors who work overtime on graduation or whatever else would have to be paid the same detail rate I get.

How about a 4 and 2 schedule?? Shift bidding?? Group 4 retirement?? No way because then all the janitors would be eligible too!!! AFSCME may tell you they will fight for it, but come on!! Do you really think so?? We could have all this and more with MCLEA and for these reasons and so many more we need to support MCLEA!!


Posted by: FSCPD

I think that's right, I've heard that MCLEA would not be held to the same rules and wouldn't wait a year. But I have no idea. I am almost positive that AFSCME does pay for the dental coverage we have. Can we still get that with MCLEA? these are all things we need to discuse. If you really want this then these should be planned for now, not someday after it's all over.


Posted by: Sgt_110

The Massachusetts State Employees Fund is where Massachusetts State employees get their dental and vision coverage from ~not~ AFSCME. Here is the link to the Massachusetts Public Employees Fund (MPEF) Website: http://www.mpefund.org.

For those who asked, AFSCME is only the door that Massachusetts Special State Police Officers (MSSPO) are currently using to receive these MPEF benefits. Once the MCLEA is in place, the MCLEA will be your new door to these same MPEF benefits.

It should be noted that not all members of the MPEF are AFSCME members. Others who are in public safety, but ~not~ in AFSCME, yet are members of the MPEF include:
- Massachusetts State Police Association (S.P.A.M.).
- Coalition of Public Safety (COPS), represented by Bargaining Unit 5.
- Franklin County Sheriff's Office, represented by the Teamsters Local 404.
- Hampshire County Jail and House of Corrections, represented by the Law Enforcement and Security Union, Division of UFCW, Local 1459.

Many other unions, who are not public safety, are also members of the MPEF. So for someone to say that AFSCME is the only way to hold onto, or, secure dental and vision care is incorrect.

Work safe


Posted by: fscpd903

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSCPD @ Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:39 am
I think that's right, I've heard that MCLEA would not be held to the same rules and wouldn't wait a year. But I have no idea. I am almost positive that AFSCME does pay for the dental coverage we have. Can we still get that with MCLEA? these are all things we need to discuse. If you really want this then these should be planned for now, not someday after it's all over.
As Sgt 110 says above AFSCME does not supply dental or vision. This is another misrepresentation by AFSCME or at the very least an assumption by us!! By the way take another look above! Look at all the Law Enforcement type agencies who have formed their own separate unions!! Our own Police union is the way to go... Not because AFSCME is a bad union, just because we are the minority within them and plain and simple cops have different needs than others and should have their own union, which is exactly why you see SPAM, and COPS and hopefully MCLEA very soon. Not to mention all the towns that are leaving IBPO and FOP and forming their own local unions so they can focus on their own local concerns....


Posted by: MCLEA

Regarding “going without representation for one year.” Like most “rumors,” this one starts with a grain of truth. There is a no "raiding” regulation. However, it only applies to AFL-CIO affiliates and it would absolutely NOT apply to MCLEA.

You will not be without a representation for a year or even a day.

Posted Tue 27 Jul, 2004 16:39:

Regarding the latest "what if" from the nay sayers:

"What if....you have to go to arbitration and there is no money?"

Very few independent associations start out with a substantial bank account; yet the potential cost of arbitrations has not been an obstacle. If it were, they would not have broken away from the national and formed their own local.

If MCLEA needs to go to arbitration before it has sufficient financial resources, two attorneys have offered to represent MCLEA free of charge, unless and until the Association had the ability to pay.

Incidentally, does anyone know of any issue that AFSCME has ever taken to arbitration?


Posted by: mpd61

O.K..............................

It's been 40 days since the last post here. What's up with that? Are we dead or is there still a heart beat?



Posted by: SSPO#11

Good question MPD........I'd like to know if we are dead also!

#11


Posted by: MCLEA

MCLEA is still very much alive and well. The Executive Board met last week. We are moving ahead slowly but surely. We are waiting for "showing of interest" cards from a couple more colleges. Once we have them we will be ready to file with the Labor Relations Commission. Check the MCLEA Yahoo Group for additional information or send a private message.


Posted by: Sgt_110

Greetings all,

Let's face it, here in Massachusetts amoung the state colleges, UMASS is the 'Big Brother' and the rest of us fight for scraps.

When the MCLEA becomes a reality, I would like to suggest this is one of the things the MCLEA could lobby for on our behalf.

----- Begin Text -----
Chapter 348 of the Acts of 2004

AN ACT RELATIVE TO THE POLICE POWERS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS AT AMHERST.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:

SECTION 1. Section 1 of chapter 269 of the General Laws, as appearing in the 2002 Official Edition, is hereby amended by adding the following sentence:- For the purposes of this section, the University of Massachusetts at Amherst shall be considered to be a town.

SECTION 2. Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, the University of Massachusetts at Amherst may enter into an agreement with the town of Amherst, another town, or a city, or other towns and cities, including towns and cities in states contiguous to the commonwealth, to provide mutual aid programs for police departments to increase the capability of such departments to protect the lives, safety, and property of the people in the area designated in the agreement. The agreement may include the furnishing of personal services, supplies, materials, contractual services, and equipment when the resources normally available to the University or any municipality in the agreement are not sufficient to cope with a situation which requires police action. When providing such mutual aid, police officers shall have all the immunities and powers granted to them by the University or the municipalities that employs them including, but not limited to, powers of arrest.
Approved September 16, 2004.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/seslaw04/sl040348.htm

----- End Text -----


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt_110 @ 28 Sep 2004 13:31
Greetings all,

Let's face it, here in Massachusetts amoung the state colleges, UMASS is the 'Big Brother' and the rest of us fight for scraps.

--
You said it Dick!

As you know there is such a disparity between UMass system and the rest of us. Look at their "separate" union! Look at their paygrades! What's the difference between policing at UMass and BSC/FSC/Salem and the other schools? Hard to articulate any difference except perhaps the UNION one....................................



Posted by: RPD931

What union is UMASS part of? What keeps other CPD's from joining?


Posted by: MCLEA

The International Association of University Police Officers represent the U-Mass police. The IBPO used to represent them...but they were not satisfied with the IBPO's representation and broke away. It is interesting that they're called an "international association" when they are only a local association. They probably borrowed the term from the IBPO.

State and Community College Police Officers are employees of the Board of Higher Education. U-Mass police officers are employees of the Board of Trustees of the University of Massachusetts. Even though both groups are employees of the Commonwealth, they have different "employers" for the purposes of G.L. c. 150E.

While on the topic of switching unions....

An AFSCME official recently admitted to a Suffolk County Sheriff's employee that law enforcement does not fit AFSCME's "service model." The Suffolk Sheriff's employees successfully left AFSCME and formed their own Association.

Contrary to all the propaganda regarding CPOs switching representatives, Gov. Romeny didn't fire them, they didn't have to wait a year, the Association didn't go bankrupt, they weren't defenseless, the employer didn't refuse to negotiate with them, and they didn't have to start negotiating a totally new contract from the ground up (all of their terms and conditions of employment remained in place - as the law requires).

The Suffolk Sheriff's local Association is affiliated with the International Union of Police Associations (so even they are a local unit, they have national affiliation - the best of both worlds). This goes to show there is life after AFSCME.


Posted by: NACop

I have been talking with some campus cops I used to work with. After all the things we used to bitch about with ASSME, I can't belive more haven't got off their asses and got MCLEA going. What the hell are you dumb sheep waiting for? I was lucky to move on and get out of that crappy union. You are NOT being represented by that union. NAGE and ASFCME don't take care of cops very well. Its not their fault, it's simply numbers.

You poor bastards better wake up and GET OUT before it's too late!



Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by NACop @ 29 Sep 2004 08:23
I have been talking with some campus cops I used to work with. After all the things we used to bitch about with ASSME, I can't belive more haven't got off their asses and got MCLEA going. What the hell are you dumb sheep waiting for? I was lucky to move on and get out of that crappy union. You are NOT being represented by that union. NAGE and ASFCME don't take care of cops very well. Its not their fault, it's simply numbers.

You poor bastards better wake up and GET OUT before it's too late!
Easier said than done my "west coast" friend. It seems between an obvious minority of AFSCME lemmings and some apathetic sit-and-wait-to-see geeks, that MCLEA will get off to a slow, but sure start



Posted by: ptldlb

I agree with this, we all need to wake up and realize we are not being fairly repusented by ASCME. There is no way they can or will. If we get something then the janitors will also be looking for it.We need our own Union and MCLEA is the way to go. We need to have a state wide set of guidelines and qualifactions for hiring and maintaining training.[align=right][i]


Posted by: tomfin

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptldlb @ Fri 01 Oct, 2004 10:12
I agree with this, we all need to wake up and realize we are not being fairly repusented by ASCME. There is no way they can or will. If we get something then the janitors will also be looking for it.We need our own Union and MCLEA is the way to go. We need to have a state wide set of guidelines and qualifactions for hiring and maintaining training.[align=right][i]
I agree 100%



Posted by: NACop

Hey,

Does this MCLEA have a website? I couldn't find one. What's the latest?


Posted by: Sgt Jack

Go to Yahoo groups and type in MCLEA..you'll get access in a day or so....


Posted by: Irish Wampanoag

GO MCLEA!!!!!!!!
AKA State campus police coupe lol


Posted by: mpd61

Update:

The Massachusetts Labor Relations Commission has scheduled a hearing for December 22nd, 2004 to hear testimony/evidence in the Severance Petition by Higher Ed Police to withdraw from AFSCME and be represented by MCLEA. Some of us are on the witness list to present (perhaps for the first time ever) the factors that make us "unique" and warrant our own union. I'm in the fight and respect the others who have been in there helping. God-willing this thing will move forward. To those of You still against it, or afraid of it, please realize this is a win-win situation.



Posted by: NACop

mpd61,

You may be living in a dreamland pal. Looks like AFSCME has tried an end run with their biatch attorney claiming y'all are "security guards". Too bad, I actually thought some of the ASS-ME sheep at some schools might have actually seen the light. Now the point seems moot.



Posted by: fscpd907

TODAY'S THE BIG DAY ! Goodluck to everyone going to the hearing.


Posted by: NACop

HA!
I just spoke with a little bird who was present at the LRC hearing
I heard nearly a dozen Campus Police Officers in suits and ties look better before a state hearing officer, than AFSCME reps in blue jeans. What a bunch of farmers. Wait that's not nice. How about janitors/clerks/steam plant guy.

The funny part is now AFSCME just couldn't come back to the LRC next week or January. They can't come back till March. Way to hurry up and get the contract negotiations going! Of course they will blame it on the Campus Cops.



Posted by: mpd61

Looking back at what's been said and then accomplished since last May, I would like to personally thank the following;
Jason G, Jared Y, Rich W, Steve T, Vinnie O', Dave C, Brian H, Bob B, Pam C, Karen B, Chad R, Bill J, and Rich K. Sorry If I missed anybody.

Special High-Five to Brian for getting us this far. Let's make 2005 the year we came alive!
=D>


Posted by: jyanis

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpd61";p=&quot View Post
Looking back at what's been said and then accomplished since last May, I would like to personally thank the following;
Jason G, Jared Y, Rich W, Steve T, Vinnie O', Dave C, Brian H, Bob B, Pam C, Karen B, Chad R, Bill J, and Rich K. Sorry If I missed anybody.

Special High-Five to Brian for getting us this far. Let's make 2005 the year we came alive!
=D>
Thanks MPD61! I try to help as much as I can on efforts that I believe in. Our profession has much room to grow, and I am pushing all the way. Happy New Year!


Posted by: Jasper

D.O.C officers did much better after they dumped afscme (aka: Association of Fools Scheming to Cheat Massachusetts Employees). So did many police departments. dump afscme and do not let them lie to your co workers - they will do that as a scare tactic. they s*ck. you as a CPO will do FAR better if you dump them as evidenced by the agencies that have. facts are facts


Posted by: jyanis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper";p=&quot View Post
D.O.C officers did much better after they dumped afscme (aka: Association of Fools Sheming to Cheat Massacusetts Employees). So did many police departments. dump afscme and do not let them lie to your co workers - they will do that as a scare tactic. they s*ck.
Good one...LOL!!!


Posted by: BartA1

afscme has proven they will go to any length to sandbag CPO's getting their own union. I guess we will have to wait until March to see how things turn out. Myself I hope MCLEA passes, but let us all hope no one buys AFSCME's smear campaign.


Posted by: SSPO#11

At that joke of an SSPO inservice yesterday we saw one of the witnesses for AFSCME. All I can say is good luck AFSCME. They are the reason why us CPO's are thought of the way we are. Beards, sloppy clothes, earings and crap. Believe me I can dress like I am back on the block with the best of them. But when it's time to go to work or something work related you have to at least look presentable.

I also saw a couple of SSPO's who had to be about 75 or 80 years old. Please dear god do not let me have to be working at that age.
#11


Posted by: Jasper

if any campus officer votes to allow afscme to continue to collect their money as union dues, while doing virtually nothing to earn it, shame on them. i am not a campus officer and have nothing to gain by your decision- but I can attest as a former cpo and afscme member that afscme s*ucks and that you will do better by leaps and bounds if you dump them. afscme's primary concern is to keep getting your dues money. the Association of Fools Scheming to Cheat Massachusetts Employees s*ucks big time. do not blow this opportunity to dump them and better yourself by dumping them just as others have... call MCOFU if you need facts on why afscme blows.... afscme equals liberal idiots/dues hungry/do nothings/ disrespectful wasters of your dues money. from my experience i can say that only a know nothing, ignorant moron would support afscme or the teamsters. the corrupt leaders of those liberal politician endorsing groups make big time salaries from your dues and go on numerous junkets to posh vacation destinations on your dues money. they live large on your dues money. your dues money, not you, are their primary concern. go independent and prosper. do not be a sucker any longer - dump afscme and the teamsters. grow up and go independent with MCLEA - stop being a water boy for the afscme and teamster pinky ring wearers. they see you only as a cash cow.


Posted by: NACop

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSPO#11";p=&quot View Post
At that joke of an SSPO inservice yesterday we saw one of the witnesses for AFSCME. All I can say is good luck AFSCME. They are the reason why us CPO's are thought of the way we are. Beards, sloppy clothes, earings and crap.
Hey,

Was that the RAT from Bristol Community College? Talk about a misguided fool. What is this guy thinking about when he disses all the other cops at other schools? This is the reason why MCLEA's time has come



Posted by: BartA1

NACop,

He probably believes the load of bull that AFSCME has been running around with. The word around our campfire is that AFSCME is telling all the other people in the union the reason they cant sit down and bargain is because the campus police are holding everything up. all they have to do is allow us to withdraw from their association and its a done deal, but they have to keep fighting. Anyway the hearing are in March and AFSCME will be shown up again.


Posted by: fscpd907

Another great job by AFSCME

As anticipated, Governor Romney has again vetoed the Higher Ed retro money. Here are his comments about why (this is taken from an article on the State House News Service):

In his veto message, Romney said the raises had fallen prey to the state's fiscal problems, noting that he and Gov. Jane Swift had to make more than $500 million in cuts during fiscal years 2002 and 2003.

"Consequently, during that time period, most employees, not just higher
education employees, went without raises, were laid off, or took unpaid
furloughs," Romney said. "Important programs were scaled back, and program recipients saw their benefits reduced. It would be unfair to treat only higher education employees preferentially."


Posted by: jyanis

Romney sucks monkey balls. I hope that cops wake up and do not vote for this Republican con ass.


Posted by: Jasper

look at past posts on this web site. The vast majority of police would never support the typical democrat. From past experience it is proven that democrats raise your taxes, thus taking money away from your family, AND always appoint soft on crime, flaming liberal judges that make excuses for sc umbags that might rape your child. Democrats, liberals, fools = same thing. I support Governor Romney. It's the democrats in the State Legislature that screw things up. Liberal, limp wristed morons. Maybe if the liberal moron democrat politicians would stop spreading resources so thin on nonsense, more money would be available for what matters. Look at the big picture !! Demorats are no friend of police as past history proves.


Posted by: jyanis

True, but Bush just cut the cops funding (again)! They are all crooked bastards...LOL!!!


Posted by: MCLEA

A quick update:

MCLEA's 2nd day of hearing at the Labor Relations Commission is scheduled for Friday, March 11th.

AFSCME continues to oppose MCLEA at every turn. AFSCME has filed a renewed Motion to Dismiss. I have prepared a response which I will file this week and post it on the MCLEA yahoo e-mail list.

We've come a long way...and contrary to the propaganda, nobody got fired, the BHE didn't disband the college police, nobody is without representation, and everyone still has his or her optical and dental benefits (which are totally funded by the BHE).

This has been a long road...but the end is finally in sight.


Posted by: Jasper

What does "MCLEA" stand for ? is it a local or national union ? who is part of it ? What occupations can join or are in it ? when are you guys voting on it ? we dumped the mega union years ago and went independant - did much better and no one would even consider re joining afscme.
only a nimrod would support afscme........


Posted by: DC813

MCLEA stands for Massachusetts College Law Enforcement Association. It is an association that is currently before the MA Labor Relations Commission attempting to sever sworn patrolmen and sergeants from the state's community and state colleges. If the LRC allows, an election will be held where all the proposed members of the association will be allowed to vote on whether they want to leave afscme.

I agree with you, I don't know how anyone would want to stay and re-join afscme.


Posted by: MCLEA

The 5th and final day of MCLEA'S severance hearing wrapped up today at the Labor Relations Commission. I will be filing a post hearing brief on or before April 21, 2005. The case will likely be decided in a few months. Thanks to all who testified and helped out.




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