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Main Page Speed violations and frisking
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: Unregistered

This morning my finacee was on her way to work. She was traveling above the speed limit and was pulled over in Nashua, NH. The officer asked her to step out of the car and proceeded to frisk her without giving any reason. She is a very clean cut girl, wearing her nursing scrubs and has a baby seat in the back car so I don't think "profiling" is an issue here. I am just wondering if this is legal. I know you are MA cops but I am sure you have knoweldge of other states. Normally I would tell her she is at fault and just suck it up and pay the ticket but this whole frisking deal doesn't sit well with me. I told her if it ever happens again to make sure a female officer is on site due to allot of reason fake cops being out their. Your help is much appreciated.

Posted by: OutOfManyOne

Is she hot?

Posted by: Unregistered

Thank you for bringing some humor to this. The whole deal is getting me a little po'ed.

To answere your question...yes!

Posted by: potatochip

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thank you for bringing some humor to this. The whole deal is getting me a little po'ed.

To answere your question...yes!

We'll need pictures to properly analyze this issue.

But in answer to your question, I've frisked people on carstops for speeding...but I always had a legitimate reason. As for frisking a woman, I have no problem with it as long as you have a legitimate reason (and at least try to be respectful). I'm not getting whacked because the suspect has boobies. But I would do my best to have someone else present as a witness.

Case in point: Not to long ago Foxboro PD locked up a female and the search revealed a loaded pistol in her, um, well you can probably guess.

Posted by: US706

how far over the limit and was she actually cited?

AND where are the pics....

Posted by: Inspector

In answer to your question. First I am a NH officer and secondly while we do not "profile" you would be perhaps surprised to learn that a baby seat is actually one of the "props" set up to distract officers in some of our training scenarios. If the officer had some reason to suspect a threat he could frisk and there is no requirement a female officer be present during such a pat down legal frisk. Nursing scrubs are not an excuse either as I have arrested nurses on drug charges (they are actually prime candidates for addiction). I assume the officer was in uniform and in a marked unit, hence no question of a "fake cop." The other thing I will note is Nashua has become a rather hot area for drug trafficking and depending on the section of the city she was driving through at the time there may have been good reason for the stop.

Posted by: Unregistered

Thank you for your responses. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was saying that profiling is an issue in Nh. It seems to be brought up in all cases which I think is just a way for a crimal to get out of trouble. It's crap in my opinion. We are not going to fight the ticket due to this incident. Like I said it is her fault for speeding. I just wanted to make sure a cop has the legal right to search for a traffic violation with out giving reason. She is a petite woman with a past history with a violent boyfriend. So this incident shook her up a bit. I completely understand the reasoning behind having to search. Also she works in dowtown Nashua at the hospital. I agree that the neighborhood is not the nicest place. I really appreciate your help. Stay safe and god bless.

Posted by: phuzz01

Speeding alone is not sufficient reason to conduct a pat frisk. However, if the officer did have other reasons for doing it, he is not required to explain those reasons to her. So, he could have seen some other suspicious indicators, and conducted the pat frisk based on them. But he isn't required to stand there on the side of the road and explain his reasoning for the frisk.

Posted by: 4ransom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thank you for your responses. I'm sorry if I sounded like I was saying that profiling is an issue in Nh. It seems to be brought up in all cases which I think is just a way for a crimal to get out of trouble. It's crap in my opinion. We are not going to fight the ticket due to this incident. Like I said it is her fault for speeding. I just wanted to make sure a cop has the legal right to search for a traffic violation with out giving reason. She is a petite woman with a past history with a violent boyfriend. So this incident shook her up a bit. I completely understand the reasoning behind having to search. Also she works in dowtown Nashua at the hospital. I agree that the neighborhood is not the nicest place. I really appreciate your help. Stay safe and god bless.

dude, i think you should register... you asked a good question and didn't start any trouble and seemed to be satisfied with the answer. we need more people like you. feel free to join!

Posted by: Unregistered

She was driving my car for the day. There is absolutely nothing in my car or wrong with my car that would make her subject to a frisk. Hell I just go it detailed so there isn't any even any trash. She is a very clean cut girl. She has never had another speeding violation let alone ANY run in with the law. I cannot see any reason for her to be pulled out of the car and searched. He also told her he would have arrested her but since she was polite he would let her off for a $100 ticket. I have never heard of anyone being arrested for speeding unless there is another infraction as well.

Posted by: Stevec

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ransom

dude, i think you should register... you asked a good question and didn't start any trouble and seemed to be satisfied with the answer. we need more people like you. feel free to join!

My apologies for not registering sooner. I have a very high respect for the law and didn't really see an initial reason to register as I usually never question an officers authority. This whole incident just caught me by surprise.

Posted by: Andy0921

I respect your g/f for taking responsibility and paying the fine and I respect you for being a good sport for being able to joke around with us.

Posted by: justanotherparatrooper

welcome to the colosium!

Posted by: SOT

He was profiling, for a drug profile. Nurse in scrubs with baby seat is like #4 on the most common "looks" for drug dealers trafficking drugs.
Did he search the car at all or the baby seat?
He might also have been "reverse profiling" search the white people so you can search the non-whites.

PS I'm not a cop, I'm just messing with you.

Posted by: MM1799

This was in NH? Hm..
Was he driving a chevy caprice with pushbar and spotlight?
Was he wearing a uniform that said something like "EMA"...
Was he wearing gloves?
Ah, I apologize.

Posted by: SOT

Ohhh no you didn't!

Posted by: Unregistered

oh, one thing I forgot. If she was speeding fast enough to where her arrest was justified under NH law (some places 30MPH over the limit triggers this), the officer would have been justified in searching your g/f and the vehicle incident to arrest. In this case, if, after not finding any further probable cause of a crime through the incident to arrest search, he decided to let her off with a ticket - she got lucky.

Posted by: dcs2244

What kind of car was she driving?

Posted by: HELPMe

Just call the station and ask to speak to the officer. Dont be rude and ask him to articulate why he conducted a mv stop and why he conducted a pat frisk. In MA you can pat frisk just about anyone as long as you can atriculate why. Be advised that a pat frisk is for weapons only (although some have started to allow drugs be entered as well such as the turing out of the pockets and if a needle or 94c happens to fall out then it is admissible.)

Posted by: Stevec

I would like to update you guys on this. This is getting a little more sketchy to me. She says the cop was not in a marked police car. She said it looked to be a Monty Carlo (I can't be 100% about the exact make because she doesn't really know cars). She didn't ask any questions because she was very scared. She was driving 15MPH over the speed limit in a 2001 mazda 626. If he felt threatend by her then he feels threatend by a toy poodle. I am going to call and ask to speak with the officer or with whoever is in charge. I would like to hear what kind of reasoning they could give me for the search.

Posted by: Inspector

Games Again!!!!

Posted by: Stevec

???

Posted by: ROCK1122

A) SPEEDING UNDER 25MPH
+
B) HOT GIRL (STEVE WE NEED PICS!)
+
c) SKETCHY CAR
=
d) A LEGITAMATE CONCEARN...CALL NASHUA PD TO SEE IF THERE WAS A RECORD OF HER BEING STOPPED.

Posted by: SOT

She got a ticket right? Just look at the ticket. If he issued a valid ticket, then it can't be "sketchy" save for the reason he frisked her. Since you don't have one...you cna't say it's sketchy yet.

Posted by: Stevec

Sorry I was going to post a pic but I get this error. Maybe next time.
You are only allowed to post URLs linking to other sites after you have made at least 15 posts. Do not spam the board just to post links, they will deleted and your account will be banned.
Sounds like someone has their gun belt on to tight... lol

Posted by: SOT

It stops the spam bots.

Posted by: Stevec

LOL Yeah I know. I frequent quite a bit of forum and they have the same rules. I just wanted to tease the horn dogs.

Posted by: SOT

PS you can always post a few more times then post pics of the "goods".

Try out a couple junk posts in the test area.

Posted by: secret squirrel

I agree with HelpMe.....go and hear it from the officer. There are always two sides to every story. As long as you present yourself in a respectful way, I would think that the officer would be willing to explain his actions. Maybe he is wrong or maybe your g/f is leaving some important parts of the story out.............

Posted by: EOW32783

Nashua is known as a pretty squared away dept, unlike my own. Speeding sounds like a pretext for the stop if i had to guess. your gf probably fit the description of someone being sought out by that pd.

Posted by: MM1799

Quote:

She says the cop was not in a marked police car. She said it looked to be a Monty Carlo (I can't be 100% about the exact make because she doesn't really know cars).

I'm not disputing what you/your gf have said and I think you should politely ask the officer. I'm sure he'll tell you.
My point is; in my experience, unmarked/undercover cars don't usually just sit out there and pull over cars for just speeding, unless you're a danger. Again, you seem to be a fair person and I encourage you (if you are truthfully worried) to follow up with the officer. Just make sure your gf tells you everything (including everything she did to get pulled over..) before you go an question an officer about his actions.

Posted by: HELPMe

[quote=MM1799]My point is; in my experience, unmarked/undercover cars don't usually just sit out there and pull over cars for just speeding, unless you're a danger.quote]

I take it that you have never driven on the mass pike

I see atleast 2 unmarked silver cvpi's on that highway a day running radar.
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Posted by: MM1799

Ah, I meant non-traditional police vehicles.

He stated it was a "Monte Carlo".

Posted by: Nightstalker

i think this was the first thread I read in a while from an unregistered user that didnt say...

I was driving up 93 on my way to church and almost ran over a trooper then failed to stop and he unjustly wrote me a citation...

or the latest and greatest.....

On new years i was supposed to be a DD but because the responsiblilty was WAY to much to handle so I downed a fifth and this guy posing as a PO without a breathalizer at his station wrote me up for my second OUI.

Maybe this forum isnt so bad!

Posted by: HELPMe

Quote:

Originally Posted by MM1799

Ah, I meant non-traditional police vehicles.

He stated it was a "Monte Carlo".

True...i will give you that. I thought you were referring to unmarked units in general. As for the "monte carlo" it could have easily been a new impala 9c1 which alot of departments are using now. They have almost the exact same nose as a monte. Just a thought. Also to the author of this thread please post results of your inquiry.
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Posted by: Stevec

According to the Nashua Police department. It's up to the officers discretion to choose who to frisk. Whether it be random pat down or due to recent illegal activity in the area. They do not have to articulate a reason for the frisk either.
My personal OPINION on this is it CAN get out of hand. Now I am not saying that cops are going to be out there searching any good looking female they stop BUT if there is any misconduct buy the officer it can be easily looked past. I am also not saying she was touched in an inappropriate manner either.
Thanks for everyones help.

Posted by: SOT

yeah yeah yeah...where are the pictures dude?

Posted by: HELPMe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevec

According to the Nashua Police department. It's up to the officers discretion to choose who to frisk. Whether it be random pat down or due to recent illegal activity in the area. They do not have to articulate a reason for the frisk either.
My personal OPINION on this is it CAN get out of hand. Now I am not saying that cops are going to be out there searching any good looking female they stop BUT if there is any misconduct buy the officer it can be easily looked past. I am also not saying she was touched in an inappropriate manner either.
Thanks for everyones help.

Just out of curiosity did you talk to a dispatcher or the contact officer? If it was the dispatcher I would take whatever they say with a grain of salt. Most dont know the law on the level that a patrolman does. As far as pat-frisking whoever you want this also applies to MA. However, like I stated earlier it usually only applies once reasonable suspicion has been established. The reasonable suspicion to frisk your gf could have been that she matched a BOLO from another department and the officer wanted to conduct a thorough inquiry. However, It depends on department policy on weather you must articulate the reasoning to conduct a pat frisk. I dont know NGL i can only speak on my departments policy.

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