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Main Page Experience Points
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: PearlOnyx

Any one have the decision regarding who is now allowed experience points, after the Muni's sued and won? I filled out one of those forms and attached my court documents, appointment papers, time sheet etc. just so I would have a leg to stand on, should another class action suit pop up. I can almost guarantee that they won't give us Sheriff's points, but it's a nice thought.

I work the same amount of hours as an intermittent and do the same work as he does for the most part (at least for those departments that only allow road jobs and no shift work). I'd be interested to see what would happen if someone made a stink, but I'm never one to stir the pot. Just wondering if anyone had the text of the descion or anyone else in the Sheriff world had applied for points today. Let all the jokes start...

Posted by: hupd451

I think you would be out of luck because the title of the exam is for "police officer" and your title is deputy sheriff.

Posted by: extremesgs

what was the lawsuit? I haven't heard anything about it.

Posted by: union1

I used to have the case law regarding experience points but I tossed them about a year ago. You can get them offline, I will post them when I find the site. I do believe however that you will get the points "if my memory serves me correctly"

Posted by: extremesgs

Ok, so I did the math. My experience gets me about .34 points. One third of a point. Does that mean I am just above people with the same rounded score (98, for instance)??? It almost doesn't seem worth the hassle of the paperwork.

Posted by: sully161

It was the Adams Decision (Case B-99-566). Anyone with "police powers" will qualify based on that decision. So, if as a Sheriff, you have the authority to:

1) suppress and prevent all disturbances and disorders;
2) make arrests and imprison with or without a warrant;
3) full arresting authority;
4) power to fingerprint and photograph a person arrested

...you should be all set for points.

Posted by: Burner1

Points are rounded to the nearest whole number.

Posted by: extremesgs

that answers that... thanks!

it appears that 3 or 4yrs. FT exp will get you a whopping point. Good to know.

Posted by: extremesgs

forgot to add....

the form they have refers to "performing work ONLY as Full Time, Part-Time, Reserve, or Intermittent Police Officer. "

I got it as cop-on-the-street. With that, I'd think that Dep. Sheriff wouldn't qualify.
Herein lies the problem- open to interpretation. hmmm do I hear another Suit forming???

This system seems to get worse by the day....

Posted by: sully161

Here's the decision, from the actual civil service decision. It's quite clear, if you read it.

The language relied on by the Respondent does not require that the applicant be a police officer to apply for employment or experience credit. However, the Open Competitive Employment or Experience Credit Information Sheet, which is required to be filed if an applicant seeking original appointment to the position of police officer is asking for credit for employment or experience, requires the individual to have performed work as a police officer that involved the use of full police powers. (emphasis added, ex. 2) Full Police Powers is defined as, “A police officer who has (1) the authority to suppress and prevent all disturbances and disorders; (2) the authority to make arrests and imprison with or without a warrant; (3) full arresting authority and (4) the power to fingerprint and photograph a person arrested.” (ex. 2)

While recognizing the different interpretation of G.L. chapter 31 given by the Respondent with regard to examinations for promotion as opposed to examinations for original appointment, to be eligible for employment or experience credit the applicant for original appointment must have worked in the position title for which the examination was given. In this case the position has the generic title of Police Officer. Credit “shall be given for employment or experience in the position for which the examination is held which involved the use of full police powers.” The forty-five Boston Municipal Police Officers have employment or experience as police officer, which involved the use of full police powers

Posted by: extremesgs

Cool.

Again, I had no clue about the suit.

As for me, I still only get about a third of a point, so its all moot for me.

Posted by: sandbagged

I think it all depends on the clown of the day who is reviewing your info at civil service. I know of auxiliary cops that have gotten a point and special police officers who have not. If they don't grant you the points complain, you never know. It's not going to hurt you if you make a stink.

Oh and a 98.3 is better then a 98 no matter how you slice it. That third of a point may be the difference between and interview and no interview.

Posted by: union1

According to the Life Expirence work sheet, you round the score to the Closest full point. Sounds to me like, a 98.3 would be rounded to a 98. and a 98.5 would be rounded to 99.

Posted by: sandbagged

Makes sense I guess, still give it a shot though......

Posted by: PearlOnyx

The interesting part is how the "Full Arrest Authority" is interpreted. Depending on how you look at it, a Deputy Sheriff does or does not have "Full Arrest Authority", because of the limitations placed on them in misdemenor non-breach of the peace crimes. There is still a lot of question of what a Sheriff can do in this state, and alot of it hasn't been challenged in the courts. This falls under how the laws are worded. Many are worded "Any Police Officer...", "Any Law Enforcement Officer..." etc. The Sheriff's limited arrest authority is addressed in Commonwealth v. Baez if I am correct. So, it'll be interesting to see what happens. As for me, I just applied for the points in case the class action suit comes up. Those who didn't apply will have no ground I think if a suit does come up.

Posted by: union1

http://www.state.ma.us/csc/newB-99-566.htm

According to this, it sounds like a Sherrif does get points.

Posted by: PearlOnyx

Personally, if they don't end up allowing the points, I think they'll get burned on the fact that they allow experience points for Sheriff's for promotional exams but not entry exams. I'd be interested int seeing how that would be explained away

Posted by: mpd61

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuocok

That experience point system is a typical civil service charles foxtrot. I scored a 100 on the last test and submitted my experience proof with it and was told that after the formula I still had a 100. Another guy I know says that he scored a 99 and with the experience ended up with a 101. Civil circus explained to me that formula deducted points from my raw score and the experience points brought it back to 100. Confused the hell out of me so I left well enough alone.

Exactly!
Thats what I said in another post a short time ago. Those with experience are better cutting a 98 or 99 with the screwy formula. Then add Vet and Female and you're in! (if there's $$$$)

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