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Main Page Civil Service Poll Question
(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: 7MPOC

Should Civil Service give preferance for the Full-Time Police Academy?

Edit: Poll added by BartPD

Posted by: union1

CC should give MORE points for Practicle expirence. Not this one point per 4 years of expirence

Posted by: Opie

By creating that as an option your opening the door that this will be the only way you will be able to get a police job in this state. Some people can't afford to take that kind of time off to receive the necessary training at no pay.

Going to the police academy requires a lot of time and commitment both at the academy and at home on your own time. Thus preventing you from having a job that pays well enough for you to live and pay your bills. For those of you who can do this, congrats! It shows good character and that your serious about a career in law enforcement.

A lot of agencies are now requiring their recruits to pay back the cost of the academy over time or sign a contract promising to stay with their agency for 3yrs or so. I think this is going to be the new trend.

Just my

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

It would almost force people to put themselves through an academy, which eventually would stop the PD's from paying new officers to go through, which is unfair to family people looking to become Police Officers.

Posted by: Southside

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop

It would almost force people to put themselves through an academy, which eventually would stop the PD's from paying new officers to go through, which is unfair to family people looking to become Police Officers.

Not true oh wise one....I have a wife and three kids and I did everything from selling items to cutting back costs on food and odd items so that I can pay my way through.....I absolutely think you should be given something but not full preference....maybe 2 points.

Posted by: JP64

How many agencies already won’t to put their officers through, not necessarily because they don’t want to, but because there are so many self-sponsors out there. How many academies have been put on float b/c there aren’t enough municipalities sending officers?

Posted by: Southside

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP64

How many agencies already won’t to put their officers through, not necessarily because they don’t want to, but because there are so many self-sponsors out there. How many academies have been put on float b/c there aren’t enough municipalities sending officers?

If what you say is true and there are so many self sponsors.....academies should be running constantly. I am still waiting for my academy to start because it is on float status, but it has nothing to do with self sponsors.......civil service does not give any preference to those who self sponsor, so departments still have to put those individuals through who are higher on the list and have not put themselves through.

Posted by: 7MPOC

Self Sponsors are the botom of the barrel in the academy, if new officers are hired and there is not enough room in the academy self sponsors get bumped out, academies are on float status because towns cannont afford the cost anymore do to the financial crisis in the state. As a matter of fact the Academy Director for Weymouth told me if it wasnt for self sponsors alot of instructors would be out of a job. Essentialy they are paying there salaries.

** Also in many other states you cant even apply for the job unless you have already been trained.

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnr76

I think your families food should come before going to ANY academy, but to each his own. I'll agree that starving your family should give you at least 2 points on the test

Posted by: union1

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnr76

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop

They do give you something, they give you experience points. That does not nessesarily mean your gonna get a full point though. You learn 10 times more in life than you can learn in an academy. If thats the case, people who have expirence should be given even more don't you think?

Posted by: Southside

Quote:

Originally Posted by PBC FL Cop

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnr76

I think your families food should come before going to ANY academy, but to each his own. I'll agree that starving your family should give you at least 2 points on the test

Its typical hearing comments like that from you.....I said cutting back costs on food...meaning things like cooking at home, taking lunches rather than grabbing subs etc....I guess the Florida sun is becoming a bit to much for you if you think cutting costs is starving my family....but then again, I have seen plenty of episodes of COPS which were on a few Sheriff's Departments in Florida and by the looks of their waistlines and heavy breathing each time they chase a suspect 10 yards.....cutting back on food might be a good idea for them as well.

Posted by: Irishpride

IMHO self sponsoring is great in its own way (small town non Civil Service communities for instance) but I think its very important that people keep in mind that as messed up as Civil Service has become, it was set up put every applicant (with very limited exceptions as stipulated preferences) on a level playing field. I think its great that someone is willing to make sacrifices to sponsor themselves through the academy. I firmly believe that any furtherance of education/training to better oneself is a worthy cause. But is it honestly fair to give someone who pays their way through an academy and has never worked in the field preference over someone who is not financial able to do so? That kind of seems to me like buying preference, which kind of degrades the rest of the preferences in my opinion after all one cannot buy veteran's status or actual related work experience. I feel this ultimately would create a system where the only way to become a full time PO would be to self sponsor. That would put someone who's family is dependant on their income at a profound disadvantage. Maybe if Mass. had a P/T full academy like they have in Fla where a student officer can work a full time job and attend the full academy on evenings and weekends I would be more supportive of the concept.

Posted by: JP64

“civil service does not give any preference to those who self sponsor, so departments still have to put those individuals through who are higher on the list and have not put themselves through”

If I recall, can’t civil service bypass you without reason twice, you just get recycled into the list, but on the third time they MUST hire you. In my case, within two days of signing the list, I received a call from a Sgt. asking me what academies I have been through. So, theoretically, could I be bypassed for a same or lower scoring candidate that had already completed an MPOC?

If I am not mistaken, most academy classes are 50% self-sponsors. Yes, each of them can be bumped for a recruit from a municipality, but how often does that happen now. A few years ago, sure, it happened during each class.

Look at all the lateral transfer requests out there on LEAPS, municipalities don’t have the $ to hire new guys. A few years ago, Framingham’s Chief said in the newspaper that he simply wouldn’t hire anyone off of their list and would only accept laterals.

Posted by: PBC FL Cop

[quote="shawnr76"][quote="PBC FL Cop"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnr76

I have seen plenty of episodes of COPS which were on a few Sheriff's Departments in Florida and by the looks of their waistlines and heavy breathing each time they chase a suspect 10 yards.....cutting back on food might be a good idea for them as well.

Maybe civil service will give you a couple of points for every 100 episodes of COPS that you watch. Throw in a couple of NYPD Blues and the Shield and you'll be a cop before you know it.

Posted by: Southside

I am sorry, it just seems that whenever he speaks....god forbid someone wants to disagree.

Posted by: Irishpride

Shawn,

Everyone's profile occupation automatically resets to Animal Control Officer if they do not reset it after updating their profile, so I'm pretty sure that it is just an oversight on PBC's part. Lets just' try to keep it civil, or @ least restrict personal attacks to PM's.

Posted by: Pacman

I don't think a full time academy should get you anything. Any schmuck can persuade someone to sponsor him or her. Just because you have an academy doesn't mean you have the know how or the common sense to use that knowledge correctly. Keep going with the status quo.

Posted by: ProudAmerican

If they only have academy experience, then no, they should not be given preference. However if they've worked as officers in the past they should get preference.

Posted by: EOD1

gee another one of these and surprise surprise, its pretty equal. i not even gonna contribute to this. its just gas on the fire

Posted by: smd6169

How do you go about sponering yourself through the academy? What is the cost?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7MPOC

Self Sponsors are the botom of the barrel in the academy, if new officers are hired and there is not enough room in the academy self sponsors get bumped out, academies are on float status because towns cannont afford the cost anymore do to the financial crisis in the state. As a matter of fact the Academy Director for Weymouth told me if it wasnt for self sponsors alot of instructors would be out of a job. Essentialy they are paying there salaries.

** Also in many other states you cant even apply for the job unless you have already been trained.

Posted by: 94c

I say you should get two points for buying your own cruiser.

Heck, while you're at it, why not start your own PD

Posted by: RedWaterMan

I have to elaborate on smd's question, how can you put yourself through the academy on your own? I was under the impression that you needed a law enforcement agency to sponsor you to go through (i.e. paying) so that the training is for more than just shits and giggles.

Posted by: MCLEA

Appointing authorities have successfully relied upon police academy training as a reason to bypass a higher scoring candidate. I have also used it to overturn a bypass when a candidate with more academy training was bypassed for a lesser-trained candidate. (note: it is only one factor which must be considered).

Posted by: j809

You can no longer attend any municipal police academy unless you have a full-time job. As far as the arguement of having to feed my family and can't afford it, it can be done if you really want the job bad enough. We just had a part-time officer on our PD do it for 24 weeks in Lowell and now he is FT in the neighboring town. I took a leave of absence with a wife and kid and did it, saved my $ on details. 21 weeks goes by mighty quick and some sponsoring PDs and academies let you work in the weekends or evenings during the academy. But the last class that graduated Lowell is the last one that allowed student officers to attend without being employed FT by a municipal police department.

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