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SIG 226 DAK vs Glock 22

(Click here to view the original thread on the MassCops Message Board)

Posted by: Gil

It looks like after only 4 years of having the Glock 22 as our dept. issued weapon we will be switching over to the SIG 226 DAK.

Now I am not a gun nut but I was looking for some feedback on what one is the better weapon. I heard that the SIG is the Cadillac of handguns. Who here carries the SIG 226? Which do think is better?

Kinda funny, we start out looking for holsters (for the Glock) and SIG patrol rifles and next thing we know we are dumping Glock all together and getting brandy new everything. From what I hear SIG gave us a hell of a deal and the major reason for the switch.


Posted by: Southside

I own a SIG P220 and stand by it 100% as the most out of the box accurate handgun on the market. SIG makes a sweet handgun......Attleboro seems to be getting their act together....maybe I will move there and try to get on that department....I wonder if that number 5 car is being used by anyone .


Posted by: JohnBarleycorn

Used to carry Glock (9mm, then .40), now carry Sig P220 (.45) - Much better handgun! And according to our armorer, it was recently rated the #1 combat auto by some "gun-nut" magazine, with Glock somewhere down around #5.

Amherst College first started carrying them last year. UMASS traded their old S&W black powders for Sigs in November and Amherst PD will be going to them in the coming months.

Happy Hunting


Posted by: 2-Delta

Owning a Sig I'm going to have to agree.


Posted by: Thimios315

I have a Sig P228 9mm issued to me (not by choice).......own a Glock 22 for my personal weapon.
I'd go with the Sig myself for a duty weapon. I've never had a problem with mine. Some of the guys carry the .45, shoots awesome and its accurate as hell. I like my Glock-22 because of the hi-cap 15+1mags....Sig .45 is what 7+1, I believe. It's all on the shooter. But given the choice, I think I would pick the Sig over the Glock.


Posted by: Gil

The only down side is that I can't use my baby Glock for court and details after the switch looks like it will hit the MassCop wantad section for a down payment on a 229.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnr76
....I wonder if that number 5 car is being used by anyone .
My new car is 9, not by choice but it gets the job done


Posted by: Muggsy09

I have both, it's a tough choice to make but I gotta go with the Glock. I seem to shoot better with my Glocks than with my Sig.


Posted by: jmaz

I own a Sig P229 (.40). It is by far the best gun I have ever shot. My buddy has a Glock 17 (9mm), when I shot that then my Sig, you can see how much more control the Sig has. The recoil is less even when it is compact and a .40 cal compared to the 9mm, plus the grouping was very close with the Sig right out of the box. I think the Glock is too light also, the Sig is not alot heavier but you actually feel like you have something in your hand.


Posted by: pickels

Hands down love my Glock 22. Won't go with anything else!


Posted by: Thimios315

Gotta love the Glock though, just point & shoot! Sig just has better craftmanship...but then again, this is like the Ford+Chevy war...


Posted by: Joe B

I have owned numerous Glocks and Sigs. I do like the Sig pistols, but the P220 I had was a bow-wow, the trigger pull was rediculously harsh. Both brands are quite accurate, but personally I give the edge to the Glock, much more consistant trigger pull.


Posted by: XRacerX

I bought a Sig (P226) for the reserve department I work for in 1997. I’ve used a couple of Glocks not really a big fan. I enjoy my P226 so much I bought a second one. I believe it is a superior firearm.
Go to http://www.handgunreview.com/make.asp?make=Sig+Arms

I believe the Sig is one of the best firearms made next to the Desert Eagle!!!


Posted by: Billy2

My vote is for the Glock 22. I find that I shoot glock pistols better than any other on the market. And you can back it up with a 27 and be able to use the 22's mags.


Posted by: Killjoy

Well, I am a "gun nut" and I have to agree with some of the previous posts; its mainly a Chevy vs. Ford argument....but I'll throw my 2 cents in....

For my own part I have found Sigs to be superior firearms, the MSP issues Sig 226's (.40, which I carry), Sig 229's (.40, for troopers with smaller hands), and Sig 239's (.40, for detective/undercover units). I have fired all of these and additionally own a Sig 245 (.45 compact), and have previously owned a Sig 228 (9mm compact). I have also owned 2 Glock pistols previously, a Glock 19 (9mm compact) and Glock 26 (9mm micro-compact) Sigs are reliable, ergonomic and very accurate. Many professionals rate Sigs to be the most accurate out-of-the-box, semi-automatic, double-action pistol, and in my own experiences shooting both, I would have to agree. The sights on a Sig are far better than the sights on a Glock, the Glock sights are poor at best, and made of plastic. I have heard many horror stories of Glock sights simply snapping off or falling off. Also, because of the type of rifling used in Glock barrels (polygonal), they are ammunition sensitive and cannot fire certain types of bullets.

One thing I would agree on is that I dislike the double action/single action transition after the first shot on a Sig. Being a 1911 fan, I prefer a short, crisp trigger and this is only possible on the Sig after the first shot (or if you cock the hammer). Of course, one advantage on a Sig is that if you had to make a highly accurate shot, you CAN cock the hammer, unlike a Glock. The trigger on the Glock is somewhat of a compromise, with a squashy, "safe action" that is neither double action nor single action. Its not a particulary bad trigger pull, at least its consistent with all shots, and isn't too heavy with the 5 1/2 pound standard pull. Unfortunately many departments (including the NYCPD) put heavier springs on the trigger to give it a horrible 12 pound pull (the so-called "New York Trigger"). Also, I would rate the Glock slightly more tolerant of bad maintainence (which many cops are guilty of). The Sig is precision weapon, and requires lubricant at least once every couple of months. A dry Sig will jam, there's no two ways about it....I've seen it at the range. The Glock also requires lubricant, but I believe its a bit more tolerant of "whoops, its been eight months since I even took this thing apart".

Finally, I would rate the Glock's ergonomics as simply terrible. Hefting a Glock at the range is like shooting a plastic brick. I find the plastic magazine release to be squashy and not all that positive (there's often not a "click" when you seat or release magazines). I also dislike the slide release, which I think is too small and a bit too far forward. I find the contours on the Sig to be far more natural and the controls to be in more comfortable places. I also like the fact the Sig has a decocking lever, for safe unloading, whereas you have to pull the trigger on a Glock to put it in a safe position (how many unwanted discharges come out of so-called "unloaded" guns?).

Its pretty apparent that I prefer the Sig pistol, but I still think that Glock makes a good product. My big problems with the Glock are its lack of ergonomics and its mediocre accuracy. The Sig might require a bit more TLC, but you should be taking your pistols down every month and oiling them anyways . If I were you, Gil, I would be happy about the change over from the Glock, the Sig is an awesome pistol.
By the way Gil, you might want to consider a P239 rather than a P229 for off-duty/court carry, its lot smaller and loses only 4 rounds in carrying capacity (8 + 1 vs 12 + 1)


Posted by: Killjoy

Here's the link for the P239:
Sigarms Web Page


Posted by: Gil

Just got back from the range, fired the 226, 229 DAK and the 239 as well as the Glock. First thing in comparing the Glock vs the SIG was the Glock felt like I was firing a cannon, the SIG was nice and smooth. It was a nice change from the Glock. Most of us that shot prefer the non DAK trigger system but I think the dept is going to go with it anyway.

BTW the baby Glock is off the market SIG is going to take them in trade for the 239 or the 229 (gun + 100 bucks) comes with night sights. Pretty much the same deal we are getting for the 226


Posted by: Rigger

I work for an Armored company and most of us carry the glock 22 and one of our guys carries the sig 226 Dak.I shot it nice gun i aint gone lie but i prefer my glock


Posted by: Mongo

Some are Glock guys,some are Sig guys.

Fired both at the range with eight guys over 400 rds each and Glock won hands down.

You tell someone that carries Sig that you carry Glock and they think your crazy,and vice versa.


Posted by: Belker

My department had just changed over to the Sig 226 DAK (40 Cal.) It is a nice weapon. If I had a choice I would perfer the Glock 22 hands down. The Glock is much much easier to work on and is an all around durable weapon.


Posted by: dcs2244

Sorry, I prefer the Colt 1911 series 70, 0.45 calibre. (I do love all my Sigs, though: 9 mm, .40 and .45...)


Posted by: Mongo

Not too many will now about the 1911.

It brings back fond memories every time I look at it.

Still have one but don't fire as much as I should.


Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:
Not too many will now about the 1911.

It brings back fond memories every time I look at it.

Still have one but don't fire as much as I should.
Bite your tongue! The Boston PD SWAT just bought the Sig GSR 1911-style pistol, and our own STOP team is evaluating several different types of 1911's for possible use. LAPD SWAT uses the Kimber 1911, and it is still the darling of many of our troops in the special forces community. The 1911 is alive and well!


Posted by: Mongo

1911 45 is antiquated WW 2 firearm service weapon that was taken out of service in 1989 and replaced with the 9mm beretta.


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo
1911 45 is antiquated WW 2 firearm service weapon that was taken out of service in 1989 and replaced with the 9mm beretta.
And the groaning never seemed to stop! Remember the cracking slides early in production?

Getting back to the original question, it's hard to pick the Sig (TDA) or the Glock (DAO) as superior to the other. They're both excellent combat arms. I'll be gay and go with a Smith TRR loaded with 125 gr JHP's. If anybody has to ask, you DON"T know manure about sidearms!

P.S. No shotgun either, M-4 or Bust!


Posted by: cpecop4888

MSP is going to 226 DAK, the 79th RTT was trained on the DAK, you tell me, who knows which gun is the way to go when the MSP is switching everybody to it.


Posted by: trel

I really like the Glock 22!


Posted by: j809

I got a new Glock 22C compensated, unbelievable, great gun, almost no recoil and I swear its lighter than the other 22.


Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:
1911 45 is antiquated WW 2 firearm service weapon that was taken out of service in 1989 and replaced with the 9mm beretta.
I guess everybody from LAPD SWAT to Delta, to FBI HRT, to Marine Force Recon, to countless professionals everywhere must be wrong. I guess the old .45ACP warhorse should be taken out, shot and thrown into the grave with Jeff Cooper....haven't you ever heard about respect for your elders?


Posted by: dcs2244

A Sig or Glock right out of the box: ready to fight! A 1911...needs a little fine tuning (slide/frame fit tolerance): bullet-proof and accurate (can't beat the trigger feel...).

Again, Ford/Chevy/MoPar argument. Go with whatever works for you!


Posted by: Mongo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killjoy
I guess everybody from LAPD SWAT to Delta, to FBI HRT, to Marine Force Recon, to countless professionals everywhere must be wrong. I guess the old .45ACP warhorse should be taken out, shot and thrown into the grave with Jeff Cooper....haven't you ever heard about respect for your elders?
No I hate old people they drive too slow and break for squirrels.

I was just merely stating that they replaced the 1911 45 with the 9mm berretta.

Sorry I upset you.


Posted by: CEC

Sig is just a better gun in my opion. I have my dept. p226 which had ghost site install on them and the gun truly is amazing. I own p229 and p239 both on 357 and the guns are truly oustanding. I do own a glock 33 and for higher cap magazine can't be beat but hands down the sig is a better gun


Posted by: GARDA

"Tastes Great, Less Filling"...Tastes Great, no Less Filling!...


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by j809
I got a new Glock 22C compensated, unbelievable, great gun, almost no recoil and I swear its lighter than the other 22.
Yimmy!
Great avatar, wait till your wife finds out you took a picture of her vacuuming the house in her undies! In any event, enjoy your 22C, it's a much better designation as a gun than a Mass General Law!



Posted by: jasonbr

They say that the Glock is for a man who treats his gun like his lawn mower (never cleans it). Otherwise buy the Sig.


Posted by: Mongo

I clean my lawn mower all winter long.


Posted by: mpd61

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo
I clean my lawn mower all winter long.
Mongo.....

You probably make your wife iron a crease into her undergarments too! But I will say, I'd never have any reservations about buying any of your used vehicles or equipment!



Posted by: Inspector

Let's see...Switching from Glock to Sig...I've recently done same as I've changed agencies. All I can say is "De=cock...De=cock...De=cock." Actually like the weapon a lot but it's hard to remember that clicking one into chamber cocks the weapon and it's always cocked after first shoit. Just trying to save important body parts as we draw or re=holster.


Posted by: TPRSERG

Boy this is a tough call, I LOVE my Glock 27, but after shooting the 226 DAK at the Academy a while back, I was really impressed with it. As far as a duty weapon though, the Sig gets my vote hands down, it looks sharp in a holster, the Glocks just look cheap to me. Performance wise, both have worked flawlessly for me as long as I've had them, (although my guns are spoiled).


Posted by: kencop93

I would go with the Sig all day long over the Glock. My first choice would def be the 1911.. Tried and Tested....Hands down one of the finest handguns ever made.. I would have to say the the 1911 is def. the most battle tested handgun ever...

Go with the Sig over the Glock.............


Posted by: M4USER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killjoy
One thing I would agree on is that I dislike the double action/single action transition after the first shot on a Sig.

Finally, I would rate the Glock's ergonomics as simply terrible. I also dislike the slide release, which I think is too small and a bit too far forward.

I also like the fact the Sig has a decocking lever,
SIG used to be the Mercedes Benz of pistols but thier QC has slipped in the past few years. I understand the NHSP have had numerous problems and there were some issues recently with the new 226R DAK's the Mass. State Police received regarding out of spec parts.

The Double Action Kellerman (DAK) trigger eliminates the DA/SA transition as well as the decocking lever on the SIG. If you must have a DAO trigger, the DAK is probably the smoothest.

Glock maintains their slide stop was not designed as a slide release. As a result, it is difficult to use as you pointed out.

I think it boils down to which pistol the individual is most comfortable using and shoots the best.


Posted by: Belker

I currentley carry the glock 22. It is a great weapon. My last department carried the sig 226DAK (40 Cal). It was a good gun also. The Glock is much easier to fix. The trigger reset is much shorter in the Glock. If I had the choice I would stick with the Glock 22.


Posted by: stm4710

We use the Glock 23- smaller version on the 22 but still .40 cal. It's simple( remember KISS), easy to maintain, and accurate. I shot a sig P226 at the range. It was smooth, but I am just more familiar and confident with my glock.


Posted by: Pacman

My Dept. had carried the Sig .40 since 1994. We had several major mechanical issues with them. Slam-fires, Recoil springs bursting, and the Feed ramp being particular to a limited number of bullet configurations.

Sig sent us DAK's, replacing 160 guns for free. (Hmm?) Then we started having the recoil springs burst again (five total, not heavy shooters either) My personal duty weapons firing pin sheared off, and the guide for the main spring snapped in half. I had over 25,000 rounds thru it and I loved that damn gun. It shot like a dream, it was meticulously maintained but I can't carry a duty weapon that will fail mechanically.

After alerting agencies nationwide of our issues with the Sig, and thier customer service, we went to Glocks.

Glock 23's in .40 cal to be exact. It has been a boon to our smaller statured officers with many of thier qual scores going up by as much as 10 points. With a finger on the trigger my hand only allow for my middle finger and ring finger to hold the grip with my pinky tucked underneath.

It shoots well, and performs flawlessly, with almost 10,000 rounds thru it now.

In closing, I like the way my Sig shot, but I like the reliability of the Glock. It comes down to your experiences and what you think works for you.


Posted by: chibby

I have a Glock 26 9mm that I've owned for 10 years. I have a Sig-Sauer DAK .40 as a duty weapon.

SIG all the way, baby!


Posted by: dcs2244

I was the first guy on the job to destroy a Sig P226 (9mm), squib round: the armorer (Nick Marcotte) stated that if it were a Barretta or Glock, I'd have been physically damaged. Replaced the barrel, ready to rock!

Playing guns 02/15...being issued a P226 DAK...I'll vote then. I do have a P220 0.45 cal...still a fan of the 1911.


Posted by: SOT

Nick is a good egg.


Posted by: pablo

pacman what agency are you with? we are contemplating switching to sigs. I would love to get copies of any documentation your agencie has in regards to your problems


Posted by: Rangemaster

Glock!! I like the 'forward leaning' grip design rather than a straight L frame. Comes right up on target faster from the holster for the 'instinctive point shooter', IMO. Ergonomics make it a better 'push to target', and it's virtually 'cop proof', meaning you don't have to think at all...just point & shoot. Yea, the grey matter needs to kick in for making it safe, but, that's just a matter of mindset training. I've found Sig to be quite smooth on the range, but again, IMO, it's a bit top heavy or forward leaning at the barrel....just my $.02


Posted by: M4USER

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcs2244
I was the first guy on the job to destroy a Sig P226 (9mm), squib round: the armorer (Nick Marcotte) stated that if it were a Barretta or Glock, I'd have been physically damaged. Replaced the barrel, ready to rock!
Interesting that you had a problem with a 9mm. Usually the .40 is the culprit with squib rounds or those suffering from bullet set back. Was the failure due to a squib round lodging in the barrel and the subsequent firing of a normal round? Firing any firearm with an obstructed barrel will generally result in a "got to go change my shorts" experience.

As far as Nick Marcotte's comment, bear in mind he is selling SIG's and should be considered a biased source. There have been numerous failures documented covering many brands with no injuries. I think you will find it is more luck of the draw than anything else. Good hear you were not injured. Better lucky than smart any day!


Posted by: Rook

We just went to the Sigs, I choose the P226 (.40) and think it's top-of-the-line. I never felt comfortable with the Glocks, I've tried them in different calibers and frames and it never felt "right" to me.

Then again, I'm still an fan of the M1911A1.


Posted by: dcs2244

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4USER
Was the failure due to a squib round lodging in the barrel and the subsequent firing of a normal round? Firing any firearm with an obstructed barrel will generally result in a "got to go change my shorts" experience.
Yup...Tap, Rack...dead. The round had lodged at the front of the barrel. The subsequent round did push everything out...but did expand the barrel near the muzzle...the weapon, naturally, would not cycle (kinda like one of those south american snakes that eat something large and you can see the "lump".

Quote:
Originally Posted by M4USER
Good hear you were not injured. Better lucky than smart any day!
Thanks for the vote of confidence...I did as I was trained...at the time I was putting about 2-300 rounds a week through the Sig...

I had never experienced a "squib" round.
</IMG>


Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:
My Dept. had carried the Sig .40 since 1994. We had several major mechanical issues with them. Slam-fires, Recoil springs bursting,
Never had any problems with my old double/single Sig, and I probably put at least 8000-9000 rounds through it, although my agency does swap the aluminum guide rod for a solid steel one. Nor have I had any problems with the Sig DAK. Since Glocks have plastic guide rods, I fail to see how these are better.

Quote:
Feed ramp being particular to a limited number of bullet configurations.
I've put probably put at least 3000 rounds through my new Sig DAK, and never, never had a failure to feed, fire extract or eject....I've never noticed Sig to have ammunition sensitivity. Although Glocks with their polygonal rifling do have limits on what types of ammo they may safely fire. While there was some problems with one batch of our Sig 226 DAKs, traced to out- of-spec trigger bars, the problem was fixed posthaste by Sig and we have had no other problems.

This whole thread is simply a matter of taste...ford versus chevy. Probably a more accurate analogy is AK versus AR-15. The Glock, like the AK, is reliable, rugged and more tolerant of bad maintainance. The Glock, like the AK, is less accurate and less ergonomic and has some poor engineering choices ; like the fact you have to pull the trigger to field strip it, a feature that causes a number of accidental discharges every year. The Sig, like the AR-15 is extremely accurate, and has excellent ergonomics. The Sig; like the AR-15 is also a precision weapon, and less tolerant of poor maintainance. I consider the Glock the be the "weapon of the peasant" or the "gun for people who don't like guns". I consider the Sig to be the "weapon of the professional" or the "gun for people who actually take care of their gun." But honestly, I would feel well-armed with either.


Posted by: SOT

"I consider the Sig to be the "weapon of the professional" "

You should trademark that, it's awesome.


Posted by: Killjoy

I consider the Sig to be the "weapon of the professional". *tm

*This phrase is wholly the intellectual property of Killjoy and may not be used my other without his written permission. All rights reserved. Consideration was given by Sig-Sauer for this post.


Posted by: dfc2502

I cant speak of the Glock 22, but in another life I carried the Glock 21. It worked fine, but I was never very comfortable with it nor proficient with it. I carried the Sig 226 for more than a decade putting 20,000 plus rounds through it. Other than wearing out one barrel, I never had a problem with it. Now I have a 226DAK, and time will tell. I have a case of rounds through it and there have been zero problems.


Posted by: jarcop

We carry the sig 226 (357) and have never had a problem with them. I like the glocks for the lightweight and the fact that you can rotate any angle and still get a good site with the glocks square barrell.


Posted by: Killjoy

Quote:
I like the glocks for the lightweight and the fact that you can rotate any angle and still get a good site with the glocks square barrell.
Glocks have a square barrel?


Posted by: SPS5592

We carry the 226 40's nice handgun, like said above they are great right out of the box. But I havent had any troubles with the Glocks either. I think its just a comparison that cant be made. Two totally different styles in my oppinion. But then again thats just what it is...my oppinion. and we all no how far that goes at the end of the night.


Posted by: Defense1

I have a Sig P226R DAK, and I love it. After put over 4,000 rounds through it and haven't had a single malfunction. It is balanced well and shoots accurately. I used to own a glock 23, and it was pretty good- but nothing like a Sig Sauer in your hand.


Posted by: blacknblue

More like Ford-Cadillac, lets face it , most departments choose Glock because of price, as they are both photo finishers, but the edge goes to the craftsmanship of the Sig


Posted by: llama

Da SIG wins...unless you love your Glock, of course!!


Posted by: SOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killjoy
Glocks have a square barrel?



Posted by: Inspector

Okay...Now that I've spent many years on the previous job with Glock and two years with the new agency and Sig. I think I can highlight the best (and worst) of both. Glock always felt uncomfortable in my hand while i liked the idea of simple...point shoot. My range scores went up with Sig as the single action and smooth trigger pull combined with comfort fit in my hand suits me better. I don't like the tendancy of us former Glock users to have to always remember to decock prior to standing down. The decock lever is a bit awkward for those of us who are left handed. I also prefer the Sig sights. I recall the Glock front sight was not perfectly straight on my old weapon (defect?) while the Sig provides me a straight forward path to the target.




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