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Campus Police and Tasers

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Posted by: sgt128-13

I heard rumor today that Mt. Holyoke College will be issuing Taser's to their officers in the near future. If that's true, I would think that Smith will likely get them not long after that since they share the same Chief. Being that my PD is armed, I'd like to look at a variety of less-lethal options for our officers in the future. However, MGL 140 Sec. 131J does not specificly list Campus Police as authorized to carry "electrical weapons."

Any private or state college currently carry Tasers or other "stun guns"? How about other less-lethal weapons like peperballs or shotguns with beanbags, etc.?


Posted by: Varanus224

man o man I would think that would be the last thing any campus police dept would get into.....although a great policing tool and its probably impossible to count nationwide the amount of lives it has saved and will saved both officer and perp, the image alone would probably scare the ultra liberal school admins who rule these campuses


Posted by: texdep

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt128-13
However, MGL 140 Sec. 131J does not specificly list Campus Police as authorized to carry "electrical weapons."
It does give the Secretary of Public Safety the authority to write the rules and regulations. My guess would be to check with the department of public safety for a ruling on campus department use.


Posted by: Mikey682

There is a press release on Mt. Holyoke's website about that initiative. I'm surprised their sandal wearing, pony-tailed "chief" would actually do something like that. Apparently the officers there put up enough of a stink to push it through. Good for them!


Posted by: fscpd903

I just hope a precedence isn't set where tasers present an alternative to arming unarmed departments!


Posted by: rlay84

as an aspiring law enforcement officer that has just graduated umass Dartmouth(Armed officers) I have to disagree with this idea. I know from experiences on campus such as the red sox celebraion in 03',04' as well as your trypical evenings that many students/guests are ignorant to rules and campus police. I know that these officers have special training to deal with assholes but how effective are tasers on people that are very drunk or on drugs. Officer's personal safety should be protected but I would hope that there would be alternatives to taser's however there are aparently not if this weapon has been seriously considered. Just a thought from somebody who has "0" law enforcement experience.


Posted by: sgt128-13

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlay84
I know that these officers have special training to deal with assholes but how effective are tasers on people that are very drunk or on drugs. Officer's personal safety should be protected but I would hope that there would be alternatives to taser's however there are aparently not if this weapon has been seriously considered.
The idea is to gain compliance without injury to the officer or to the suspect. For your viewing pleasure:
http://www.personal-selfdefense-onli...deo_center.htm


Posted by: sh460

Just wanted to add my .02 cents..
The Taser is a very resourceful tool. I've been told by instructors that it's even considered less lethal than O.C. because of the recovery time. O.C. can take anywhere from 3min-1hr whereas the Taser is 2-5 sec. Also, as we all know O.C. doesn't always work on everyone especially a subject on drugs whereas the Taser affects almost anyone. As far as Camous Police being authorized, I believe it is entirely up to the chief.

MGL Chapter 140: Section 131J.
Sale or possession of electrical weapons; penalties
Section 131J. No person shall possess a portable device or weapon from which an electrical current, impulse, wave or beam may be directed, which current, impulse, wave or beam is designed to incapacitate temporarily, injure or kill, except: (1) a federal, state or municipal law enforcement officer, or member of a special reaction team in a state prison or designated special operations or tactical team in a county correctional facility, acting in the discharge of his official duties who has completed a training course approved by the secretary of public safety in the use of such a devise or weapon designed to incapacitate temporarily;


Posted by: djgj200

Quote:
Originally Posted by sh460
Just wanted to add my .02 cents..
The Taser is a very resourceful tool. I've been told by instructors that it's even considered less lethal than O.C. because of the recovery time. O.C. can take anywhere from 3min-1hr whereas the Taser is 2-5 sec. Also, as we all know O.C. doesn't always work on everyone especially a subject on drugs whereas the Taser affects almost anyone.
That makes sense and I will have to agree with you.

For some uncooperative subjects, the sound of an expanding baton or the sight of pepperspray is enough to bring them under control. Some people are big, muscular, and cocky and that baton is nothing to them and with others pepperspray has minimal to no effect on them. A taser sends out enough of a shock to immobilize practically anyone, unless they manage to rip the needles out.

Tasers have not been found to be the cause of anyone's death and studies show a large reduction in officer injuries in the departments that issue them. They are nice tool when an officer could get into a wrestling match with someone and end up doing something that gets them injured.

I like the idea of police officers carrying tasers. I would like to see every police officer equipped with one but it will be a long, long time before that even becomes a possibility.

just my $0.02


Posted by: speccop

Quote:
Originally Posted by fscpd903
I just hope a precedence isn't set where tasers present an alternative to arming unarmed departments!
And I'd bet my paycheck that this is exactly where this will go. Sad.

Sidenote: my paycheck is peanuts, so anyone taking this bet just know u wont be living pretty if I'm wrong


Posted by: masstoazcop

Why are officers so reluctant to the idea of having Tasers. They are extremely helpful when dealing with unco-operative and violant dirt bags. Tasers are not the Silver bullet, but at the very least, they do reduce injuries to the officers.


Posted by: sgt128-13

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that tasers work well and would be an asset to any department... the point is that it is not a direct substitution for a firearm. For many unarmed campus PD administrators, the taser will certainly look like an alternative for a firearm.

I think that if you're to explore more less-lethal alternatives, you should at least have the use of lethal force to begin with... a firearm. And at that, a pistol is certainly not firepower... it's only something you use to fight your way back to a long gun that you never should've left.

When our PD was petitioning to be armed, the administration brought up the use of tasers as an alternative. We cited the law and noted that campus police wasn't mentioned, and that was the end of it. We also cited that it's not the solution to all the problems. No one's going to bring a taser to a gunfight.


Posted by: djgj200

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt128-13
We also cited that it's not the solution to all the problems. No one's going to bring a taser to a gunfight.
That's a given. A taser was never meant to be an alternative to the service handgun carried by officers. It is supposed to allow the officer to gain control of someone that would otherwise mean a physical takedown of the subject that could possibly injure the officer.

Guns have lethal capabilities, tasers are less-lethal that up to this point have not been found to cause death. I don't know why people associate the two together. Maybe someone can tell me why.


Posted by: Zuke

Quote:
Originally Posted by masstoazcop
Why are officers so reluctant to the idea of having Tasers. They are extremely helpful when dealing with unco-operative and violant dirt bags. Tasers are not the Silver bullet, but at the very least, they do reduce injuries to the officers.
In short 2 main reasons.
More tools on the belt to "think" about when making a split second decision. Also the armchair quarter back....you will here many many times from the public after a shooting "Why didn't they just taser him".


Also for rlay84, they work well on drunks and drugged up assholes too. They basically lock up your body. I have been tased and sprayed multiple times in training. OC Spray is far worse, especially some of the newer cap stun stuff out.


Posted by: Deputydog522


Here is the letter that was put out to let everyone know that the new taser will be coming into affect.






Dear Members of the Mount Holyoke Community,

Over the past several years, the Department of Public Safety and the College administration have been reviewing the broad issues of campus safety and security. Mount Holyoke continues to be a very safe campus, but we are affected by the broader environment in which we live. A small but growing number of incidents are occurring on campus, mostly involving people who were not members of the Mount Holyoke community, that lead us to conclude that our officers need additional equipment to protect both themselves and others. Two years ago we started to consider the possibility of arming our officers like Amherst College and the University of Massachusetts. After serious consideration and a thorough review we have decided to equip our officers with another response option, the taser.
Tasers are hand-held devices that work (either at a distance or on contact) by causing a brief contraction of muscle tissue, causing the individual to fall to the ground and permitting him or her to be safely restrained. Tasers have been used by law enforcement departments in the United States since the early 1980’s and their use continues to grow. The Metropolitan Municipalities EMS Medical Directors Consortium, a group of doctors who oversee emergency medical services, have stated that tasers are low risk compared with other ways of subduing individuals, including the batons that our officers currently carry. More information is available at http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/tasers/ .
As would be true of any change of this kind, proper training and rigorous policies for appropriate use are critical to insure that the devices are used appropriately. Training for our Public Safety officers will be conducted over the summer. In addition, policies and protocols detailing appropriate use will be developed and officers will be trained in their use. The use of any amount of force by a Public Safety officer is serious, and the officers are trained to use the least force possible to keep the community safe. Any use of force is always carefully reviewed to insure that the use was appropriate. This same careful review would be done in any rare future instance in which tasers are used.
In the fall, once policies and procedures are in place and well understood, and once officers are well trained in the use of tasers, they will become standard items carried by our Public Safety officers. If you have questions or would like additional information, please contact one of us.
Mary Jo Maydew
VP for Finance and Administration
mjmaydew@mtholyoke.edu
Paul Ominsky
Director of Public Safety
pominsky@mtholyoke.edu


Posted by: firefighter39

If the state is going to allow TASERS for the colleges then they should also allow other unarmed security guards (i.e. mall security etc..) to cary them too (after training of course)


Posted by: hubble

Sigh. . . College officers are not "unarmed security guards" as firefighter39 characterizes, they are sworn and trained LEOs. Ff39 is either uninformed or is trying some trolling activity.


Posted by: firefighter39

Quote:
Originally Posted by hubble
Sigh. . . College officers are not "unarmed security guards" as firefighter39 characterizes, they are sworn and trained LEOs. Ff39 is either uninformed or is trying some trolling activity.
is your definintion of a "police officer" someone who is sworn and authorized to enforce the laws of the Commonwealth, has received training in enforcing those laws and regualtions (i.e. CMRs), and investigates crimes (responds to citizen complaints about violations of laws and CMRs) -

If this is what you define as a "police officer" then firefighters, buidling inspectors, health inspectors, etc.. would all be "police officers"

I enforce laws (Chapter 148 for example), CMRs ( such as the 527 series of CMR's), am charged with investigating crimes(C 148 section 2 as an example).

so my point is that unless a person does all of the functions traditionally associated with being a police officer, and carrying a firearm is one of them, they should not be considered a police officer. There is nothing wrong with being a security guard or "mall cop" These are decent hard working people who choose to make a honest dollar.


Posted by: fscpd903

Quote:
Originally Posted by firefighter39
is your definintion of a "police officer" someone who is sworn and authorized to enforce the laws of the Commonwealth, has received training in enforcing those laws and regualtions (i.e. CMRs), and investigates crimes (responds to citizen complaints about violations of laws and CMRs) -

If this is what you define as a "police officer" then firefighters, buidling inspectors, health inspectors, etc.. would all be "police officers"

I enforce laws (Chapter 148 for example), CMRs ( such as the 527 series of CMR's), am charged with investigating crimes(C 148 section 2 as an example).

so my point is that unless a person does all of the functions traditionally associated with being a police officer, and carrying a firearm is one of them, they should not be considered a police officer. There is nothing wrong with being a security guard or "mall cop" These are decent hard working people who choose to make a honest dollar.
This is just an excerpt from MGL Ch 41 S98:

POLICE OFFICERS


Chapter 41: Section 98. Powers and duties


"Section 98. The chief and other police officers of all cities and towns shall have all the powers and duties of constables except serving and executing civil process. They shall suppress and prevent all disturbances and disorder. They may carry within the commonwealth such weapons as the chief of police or the board or officer having control of the police in a city or town shall determine; provided, that any law enforcement officer of another state or territory of the United States may, while on official business within the commonwealth, carry such weapons as are authorized by his appointing authority"

There is nothing that says police officers have to carry guns. Of course, its totally absurd that some college police departments don't carry, but that still does not mean that they are "security" officers. They are legitimate "police officers" who have FULL POLICE AUTHORITY in thier jurastiction. They do thier own investigations and the have FULL ARREST POWERS! In case you are unaware, most security officers do not have the power to arrest or even detain anyone. SSPO's go to a full time academy and after completion of such, they receive a warrant for police powers from the Colonel of the Massachusetts State Police. Again, something security officers don't have.

So if your point here is to bash campus police the do some research first, because your making ignorant statements and you obviously have no clue what campus police officers do. I have nothing against security officers but you are totally WRONG by refering to COLLEGE POLICE OFFICERS as SECURITY OFFICERS!


Posted by: badgebunny

Well said fscpd903! Again bunny is a bit on , firefighter...you keep referring to campus police as "security officers and mall cops" define for me what your definition of these are and also what your definition is of campus police. You obviously have no idea what a campus police officer does...so like I said before find out the facts before you make such statements! I think I am beginning to understand...you couldn't cut it as a police officer in ANY department, even as a "security guard/mall cop" so that is why you are a "firefighter". You opened yourself up to that by bashing CPOs.


Posted by: hubble

Sorry firefighter39, responding to outhouse fires in east bumblefuck does not make you a police officer. When was the last time you had to respond to a drunken brawl involving a large group of drunken and enraged college aged males and quell the disturbance without the benefit of a gun on your hip? I'm betting never. If half the crap campus officers have to deal with every weekend happened in whatever town you work in your town council would be calling in the National guard for protection.


Posted by: sgt128-13

I love firefighers... they manage to save every building foundation at every fire! Amazing!


Posted by: fscpd907

You Might Be A Redneck Volunteer Fire Department If...

Your department has ever had two emergency vehicles pulled over for drag racing to the scene.

Your firehouse has wheels.

You've ever referred to a light bar as sweet.

You've ever been toned out on an outhouse fire.

That outhouse fire was with entrapment.

The Chief's car has a rag for a gas cap.

You've ever been arrested for indecent exposure at a house fire.

Fire training consists of everyone standing around a fire getting drunk.

You've ever walked through a Christmas display and came up with more than one new idea for a light scheme for your truck.

Your defibrillator consists of a pair of jumper cables, a marine battery and a fish finder.


Posted by: fscpd907

Whacker (noun): Any EMT, Firefighter, Rescue Worker who enjoys his job simply for the pleasure of:

Hearing their own voice on the radio

Using lights and sirens on the ambulance/fire truck

Using lights and sirens on their personal vehicle

A life time subscription to Galls because of the sheer amount of stuff ordered from them

Having more stuff on their work belt then Batman

Only showing up (whether they were dispatched or not) for the 'good calls'(car rollovers, structure fires, High angle rescues)

Wearing anything that has their fire company on it so they can get 50% off in stores or food

Wearing their Class A uniforms to parades and to public events

Driving around with a bumper sticker that says... "My wife said ‘if I go to the fire house one more time I'm going to leave you'...boy I'm going to miss her..."

Taking their lunch break and going to the fire house

Calling their favorite Rig or engine "my baby"

Sneaking out of their house at 2:30 in the morning so they can go wax their "BABY"

Having pictures at work of their "BABY" and keeping the pictures of their real children at home

Having at least one room full of Fire and EMS stuff

When on vacation visiting the local Fire and EMS departments


Posted by: fscpd903

Quote:
Originally Posted by fscpd907
You Might Be A Redneck Volunteer Fire Department If...

Your department has ever had two emergency vehicles pulled over for drag racing to the scene.

Your firehouse has wheels.

You've ever referred to a light bar as sweet.

You've ever been toned out on an outhouse fire.

That outhouse fire was with entrapment.

The Chief's car has a rag for a gas cap.

You've ever been arrested for indecent exposure at a house fire.

Fire training consists of everyone standing around a fire getting drunk.

You've ever walked through a Christmas display and came up with more than one new idea for a light scheme for your truck.

Your defibrillator consists of a pair of jumper cables, a marine battery and a fish finder.
This is Holland!


Posted by: hubble

I think firefighter39 is more likely than not an internet troll and not even a fire fighter. I know that the fire fighters who have responded to calls on the campuses I have worked at know what the deal is with us and there is a lot of mutual respect.


Posted by: RPD931

Quote:
Originally Posted by fscpd903
This is Holland!
Damn, I thought it was Warren.


Posted by: snowman

The light bar hurts my eyes and the siren gives me a headache and hurts my ears!




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